Posted by
Fruitjuice
17 yrs ago
Hi everyone,
I'm expecting my first baby at the end of July, and I just wanted to get some opinions on how people find Hong Kong as a place to raise kids. When I think of where we came from (London), it just seems to me it would have been a lot easier there - we had a house with a garden, a few big, green parks withing walking distance, lower pollution etc. People are always saying to me that HK is a great place to have kids, but I'm not sure if that's just based on the fact people have live-in helpers (which we're not planning to have), or if there are other convenience factors I haven't thought of? Also, do people think it's necessary to have a car when you have a baby here?
At the minute we live in the mid-levels in a flat on the 3rd floor with no lift, so I suppose that's not ideal. Can anyone recommend the best place to live when you have a baby, from their experience?
Any input would be appreciated!
Thanks.
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for me the biggest advantage is affordable child-care, mulit-cultural environment for your kids & exposure to different languages & people..........!
Hong Kong is not a bad place to live & living in Midlevels is also find with children as they are tons of things to do for them...............
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HK is fantastic for kids in some ways, not so good in others. We live on South Side so the following is a reflection of that area. On the whole we think it's much better in HK than in Connecticut.
On the minus side:
- Pollution.
- Lack of parks.
- Few swings.
- Many playgrounds located right near main roads and even inside intersections.
- Hard to use stroller in most places.
- The carseat in taxi issue.
- If your kid is blonde and cute the Chinese stop you and want to take pictures. It's quite bizarre.
On the plus side:
- Good (private) pre-schools and schools.
- Helpers are a huge help. You say you won't have one, but I think you should seriously consider it if you can afford it. Even a live out is a big help. Our helper is a veritable Mary Poppins. The kids get great food and she plays with them constantly. And when we're home we can focus on the kids instead of cleaning/cooking.
- Apartment complexes are very child friendly.
- HK is quite safe.
- There are other kids living in the same building/complex, so it's easy to find playmates. Many places even have semi-organized playgroups for when the kids are older. In the US we could never have let our kids just run about. Here 3-4 year olds and up can walk to their friends' places without an escort.
We don't have a car and we're absolutely fine with our two kids (2 years and 10 months). But you have to give your location a good think. We can walk pretty much everywhere we need to with the kids in 10 minutes. We live on the South Side. So we rarely have to mount carseats in taxis or take the bus.
As for living without a lift, the big issue is if you have to lug the stroller upstairs. If you can store it on ground level life becomes so much easier.
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Fruitjuice,
We are in an almost identical situation to you (also due at the end of July!) - we moved here from rural Australia last September and suddenly found ourselves expecting a baby! We live in a 5 floor walk-up in Wan Chai and will definitley move to a more child friendly apartment at some stage in the next year.
I can't speak about raising children in HK, but I have to say there are some great child friendly apartment complexes out there once you start looking. We are looking for something with a pool and gym to keep me sane, and an apartment that is located somewhere easy to get around. At the moment we are thinking of the complexes around Olympic Station (which is close to where my husband works). We have also looked further afield to Sham Tseng and the Gold Coast - but they are just too far for us. My husband is a chef, so long bus rides aren't the best option after an 16 hour day...
In terms of transport, for the first 6 months a sling type baby carrier seems very popular from what I see. I haven't really looked, but a stroller with a car carrier insert (I assume they exist!) may be the go for taxis. The MTR seems a lot easier to travel with a stroller (outside of the peak hour crush).
We will not have a helper either, but will use an agency to have someone in to clean twice a week instead. It costs more in relation to a full time helper, but suits us much more (I will not be returning to work).
Since becoming pregnant I have become very homesick (particularly for fresh air and sunshine) but we are committed to at least another 2 years here. I figure by then it will just be really exciting to take a child 'home' and show them a whole new world!
Good luck and take care.
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"a stroller with a car carrier insert (I assume they exist!) may be the go for taxis. "
Bugaboo, Phil and Ted and a bunch of others have this feature yes. Just remember that extended periods in a car seat are not really that good for baby's back.
"We will not have a helper either, but will use an agency to have someone in to clean twice a week instead. It costs more in relation to a full time helper, but suits us much more (I will not be returning to work)."
Your choices are of course your own, but I see no problem with having a helper even if one parent does not work. In fact I would wager most expats do it this way. I don't work and we have a helper. Taking care of even one child is tiring enough. Do you really want to do all the ancillary activities? If you can afford a helper, and you have a good one, life is so much easier. My wife loves to come home and play with the kids 100% without having to worry about dinner, for example.
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cd
17 yrs ago
HK is a great place for kids in most respect, the one thing it does lack is big open spaces for running around, kicking a ball in the park etc that they would have in the UK. But you just adapt, here summers are spent at the swimming pool or on the beach as opposed to a park. You can still get all the activities that you would at home (my boys spend all weekends playing football and rugby, my daughter does tap and gymnastics).
The safety aspect is a huge bonus, as the parent of teenagers my kids have had far more freedom here than they they would in the UK, and most teenagers I know here keep up an interest like sports and drama, rather than hanging out on street corners.
A helper is great to do the cleaning/ ironing leaving you more free time to spend with your child and husband. Or just to be able to nip to the shop or the hairdressers without a baby in tow.
As to where to live, definately wouldn't live in mid levels with a baby. If you want to stay on the Island, then move to the South side, or out to DB, Clearwater Bay, Sai Kung or even the new territories.
And I love having a car, would never have done half as much in HK as we do if we had to use public transport all the time.
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rachrobin i think it is a great point to see how exciting it will be to take your toddler home to australia and show a different lifestyle. being away from home does make you appreciate some things you take for granted eg outdoors easily accessed and much cleaner air.
The helper thing is a mixed blessing for some - i find as a stay at hom mum you don't really need them all the time (I only have a 14month old) but if you want any flexibility to go out (to get your hair cut or docs appt) you have it. If you were in your home country you might have relatives or friends to help out (but maybe not). I also think the downside is that a lot of children here are used to being entertained 100% of the time and I think that can be a problem -they never learn to play on their own. But that is certainly not the helpers fault - they are doing what they think is right and it is up to the parents to guide this - perhaps it doesn't worry others but i think it is important to development to get kids to do there own thing etc. One thing the helper is great for is to be able to babysit when kids are in bed! and if you don't want a helper then get a great cleaner a few times a week and a great babysitter - then you have the best of both worlds so don't feel you have to have a helper - the part time help is still way more affordable than in australia/uk
so ithink hong kong offers a different experience for kids and parents so that has to be a good thing and without having access to help (whether full time or not) would make it less appealing i guess.
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"The helper thing is a mixed blessing for some - i find as a stay at hom mum you don't really need them all the time (I only have a 14month old) but if you want any flexibility to go out (to get your hair cut or docs appt) you have it. If you were in your home country you might have relatives or friends to help out (but maybe not). I also think the downside is that a lot of children here are used to being entertained 100% of the time and I think that can be a problem -they never learn to play on their own."
You make some very very valid points.
Children being "entertained" all the time. That is indeed a worry. Children who are never bored tend to become needy and uncreative. But I would say that there is a lot you can do about it. Teach your helper and make her understand what you mean by parenting. I have noticed plenty of parents who complain about their helpers. But if pressed it turns out they haven't been communicating what they want to the helpers. Most helpers are willing to do their best, but they need some direction. All families are different.
It's not easy being a parent, and having a helper adds yet another complication. As usual, there is both threat and opportunity present.
Our helper will cook and clean and wash and do dishes, all with #1 (2 years) helping out and #2 (10 months) watching. This means that the kids are not "in control" all the time. They have great fun but they do what she wants when there's work to be done. Not saying she doesn't play with them. She does that a lot, but our kids are learning that life is not all play, and that conversely you can have fun while "working". Sure, we found a hard working, very experienced helper who loves kids and loves to laugh. But we also make sure that she feels that we trust her. We don't micromanage, only giving opinions if there's anything we want to change. She is a bit like a third parent but we have never felt that she has replaced us somehow. Kids have a lot of love to give and there's room for all of us.
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I think another point to make in regards to having a helper when you are a full time mum is space!
We are not on a high income in HK expat terms, and we will be living in a small highrise flat after the baby is born. There just simply isn't room for a helper to be a part of our lifestyle. If we had a spacious living arrangement and cash to spare, I would certainly welcome the idea of a helper.
I certainly don't want to sound like if you are a full time parent you shouldn't need a helper, just that there are other options available such as agency cleaning etc.
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Thanks everyone for your replies - it's really interesting to get some different points of view and hear some of your experiences. I can totally understand why people have helpers, but i just don't feel comfortable having someone living in my family home. That said, we will definitely be getting some part-time help with the cleaning etc, maybe every day. Does anyone know how easy it is to get baby sitters, or part-time helpers who will sometimes stay for an evening if you want to go out?
Can I also ask how people met other mums with babies? At the minute I work full-time and don't know any other people with babies or pregnant people! My gym runs pre-natal exercise classes, but they're all during work hours (haven't they ever heard of working mums??), and all the groups I've found on forums seem to meet for lunches/coffees during the week while I'm working. We're thinking about doing the Annerley Midwives antenatal classes, so I guess that would be a good place to meet some other people, but that won't be until we're much further along.
I don't think we'll be here beyond another 2 years, so I'm not too worried about the green spaces etc, as by the time the little one is toddling around we'll be back near green spaces. And I agree a Baby-Bjorn-type sling carrier seems like the best option for tacking HK's steep hills!
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"I think another point to make in regards to having a helper when you are a full time mum is space! "
Quite true. Although you can get a live out. I know someone who has this arrangement.
"I certainly don't want to sound like if you are a full time parent you shouldn't need a helper, just that there are other options available such as agency cleaning etc."
Indeed.
"I can totally understand why people have helpers, but i just don't feel comfortable having someone living in my family home. "
I know your mind is made up, and as I said before it's your decision. So I'm going to speak up now and then forever hold my peace. Promise!
My wife felt a bit like this too. Now she wonders how we ever lived without our helper. If nothing else, she gets a delicious pack lunch every morning. Good if you never have time for a real lunch. A good helper knows when to be "invisible". If you feel uncomfortable with a helper in your home, you have the wrong helper.
I would urge you to talk and visit with friends who have helpers. It really doesn't feel like having a stranger in your midst. Helpers are employees. While of course it's good to be nice to them, they are not guests in your home so the relationship is quite different. Unlike your typical house-guest (say, the in-laws) they don't expect to be entertained and you don't have to cook for them. ;)
I would also note that a live-in helper is cheaper than other options.
"Can I also ask how people met other mums with babies?"
- Start on this forum. ;)
- Your typical HK expat apartment complex is inundated with children. In our complex there are over 100 children in 60 townhouses!
"haven't they ever heard of working mums??"
It is weird, right? Same in every country! My wife is not amused.
"I don't think we'll be here beyond another 2 years,"
You say that now. ;)
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Fruitjuice,
I have sent you a PM
RachRobin
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Another good resource to meet other mums is La Leche League. They also have a large lending library for you to utilize.
Good luck!
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Hi, thought I'd post a reply for reference your reference :) I'm a full-time Canadian mom of a 13mth old and I am 4mths pregnant. I live in central in a walk-up (1st floor - i don't know if i could manage the 3rd floor tho!!) and we do not have a helper. I do have a part-time helper that comes to walk our 2 dogs and wash the dishes when my husband is travelling for work (about once a month) but the rest of the time we manage without the help of a helper. It's pretty tough at times especially if my son is being fussy but I am lucky in that my husband can work flex hrs so he is around to help out if need be. And although neither of us have any family to help us out, we are able to call a helper to babysit at night so we can go out once in a while.
We do a lot of the household things together. I order most of my groceries online and shop for fresh produce on the weekends as a family outing. I really like living in Central and find it convenient. there are quite a few informal playgroups that meet in the area and the hk botanical gardens/zoo is so close! I'm not sure how much my life will change with 2 babies :) lol this is my opinion for now!
I think HK can be an interesting place to raise kids (We don't have any plans to move back to Toronto.) but you have to be open-minded and try not to compare too much. We usually travel 'home' to Toronto twice a year and I find myself loving things there that make me feel sad when we get back to hk but I know my kids will have more cultured and eye-opening experiences in HK that wouldn't be possible (or i should say a little harder) back 'home'. We talk about it all the time, whether or not we should stay or leave, if we should get a full-time helper or not, i think as long as we feel we manage that we will continue on and make changes/adjustments as needed.
good luck! I know i felt the same last year when I was about to have my son. I really wanted to move home and felt a lot of anxiety about how life with baby would be here. But it's been a year and so far we're pretty happy :)
Oh! and my only advice, if you live in a walk-up, buy the lightest stroller!! I have the bugaboo (including the maxi cosi car seat) and it's just way to hard to manage on my own up and down. i ended up buying the Graco Edt, it's only 3.8kg (read my review on it here http://milkmonsterlaughs.blogspot.com/2007/09/ultra-light-stroller-for-daily-use-in.html)
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Hahaha thanks Cara :)
I'm still in denial about the 2nd one i think :) I'm going to be so tired!!!!
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sorry this is not related to the thread but MML, just visited your blog and I think it's fab (although your specific link was not working)! lots of interesting trivia and links for all things mum/baby related, i always wanted to do something similar and eventually an online community ala mumsnet.
i also forwarded the link of the brightstar graphics to lots of my friends, we have littles ones or more on the way and i think they will be great for decorating the nurseries!
good luck with your no. 2....i have almost 2 year old and a 3 week old....both super hungry and active boys (yes, even the 3 week old one)....what fun!!
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hi fruitjuice,
i don't live in HK but whatever it is, i think walk-ups won't be a great idea unless you are on the lower floors....so you might need to be house-hunting soon. i once went to view a walk-up on the 4th floor with my then 6 month old in a baby bjorn...not fun. just imagine what it would be like with a pram and groceries! so i would recommend against a walk-up unless:
1) you have a live-in helper who can come down and help you when you get home
2) your neighbours don't mind if you park your pram downstairs (don't know about HK but some neighbours can be pretty territorial in singers)
good luck and enjoy your pregnancy!
ps: yes, a house with a garden is definitely ideal....one of my babygroup mum has that and we are all green with envy and love having playdates at hers!
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thanks wheelymate :)
You should totally do that, if that's what you've always wanted to do!! If you're still interested, you're welcome to contribute posts. right now it's just a non-profit hobby thing i do to fill up my in-between baby times. a site to help out other parents :)
here is the link again:
http://milkmonsterlaughs.blogspot.com/2007/09/ultra-light-stroller-for-daily-use-in.html
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haha, maybe i will...although husband will probably prefer i focus on helping him with his business first, which i do on a part-time basis...we'll see how.
but yes, will definitely contribute stuff when i can!
as it is, after i sent out the wall decal link, a few replied with a singapore-based one, great for kids and adults:
http://winkplay.com/index.php
only thing is i'm not sure if they ship to HK!
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Thanks again for all your advice everyone! MML, thanks especially for the pram tip - we went to look at some yesterday in Bumps to Babes and were so overwhelmed by the choice we didn't know where to start. We're definitely thinking of going for the lightest one we can find though. I think we'll be able to leave it down on the ground floor, so hopefully I won't be dragging it up and down stairs.
I haven't had a chance to look at the website yet, but will take a look later today.
Thanks again everyone - you've definitely put my mind at ease and given me some things to think about!
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Fruitjuice, also check out Eugene Club on Queens Rd. Central. They have a selection of prams that is different from Bumps to Babes.
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