Has anyone tried natural IVF? I am considering this because I was told given my age and day 2/3 scans that I would be lucky to end up with 1 or 2 eggs. (My scans show about 3 to 4 follicles on day 3). If that is the case, is it worthwhile to go through with all that stimulation to end up with 1 or 2 eggs anyways? I also heard that after a conventional IVF cycle (i.e., with medication), that one needs to take a 3 month break before doing another conventional IVF cycle. This is in order to let your body go back to normal. Is this true? I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.
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Keepontrying,
If you dont have enough eggs this cycle, have you considered doing IUI instead. The egg retrieval process at the hospital is quite expensive - so you might wish to wait til next cycle when you have more eggs.
I have previously been advised by my RE that you cannot do IVFs back to back - you need to rest for one month in between (but I have not heard of a 3 month rest).
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Havefaith,
As a matter of fact, I did go ahead with an IUI a week ago. Given my LH level on day 3, my doctor had the view that I had very little chance of getting pregnant (especially via IVF). I was getting anxious as I was mentally prepared for IVF, but was again disappointed that I will have to wait another cycle. I therefore just went ahead and tried an IUI. It was my first time. To my surprise, it was not that bad. I do not feel any pregnancy symptoms so I suspect I was not successful. I will not know for sure for about a week, but nevertheless, I am not too hopeful. I realize that IVF is expensive, but am getting a bit impatient waiting. I may never have a good cycle. Twice now, my LH has been on the high side on day 3 so that may be the case for me from now on which means I'll never have a cycle which is "perfect" for IVF. It's so frustrating!
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Did you get your LH and FSH measured on Day 3? What does a high LH indicate?
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788
17 yrs ago
Keepontrying- try not to think that not having pregnancy symptoms are any sign. I know its tough when you are trying to understand every twinge in your body. I had no pregnancy symptoms at all till 7 weeks and barely some after that. I wish you a lot of luck for this cycle.
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Havefaith,
My fsh was 4.5 and 5.5 for the past two cycles respectively. My doctor did not take a blood test to measure either my LH or my estrogen level which I think some doctors do to check if all is okay for an IVF cycle. He did test my LH level using an LH strip (the one you use to check when you are ovulating). Both times the test line was a faint line (compared to the reference line). He said that that was an indication that I had a higher level of LH than I should on day 3 as the test line should be blank that early on in the cycle. In any case, I am not sure how sensitive these strips are so I cannot tell what the actual level of my LH was. What is a good LH level to have on day 3?
788,
Thank you for your wishes. I am not hopeful because my doctor told me even an IUI would be a long shot (but I tried anyways). He is a firm believer that when you have high LH at the beginning of your cycle, that your egg quality would be poor and as such it would be very unlikely that you would get pregnant (or if you do, it would end up in a miscarriage anyways). It took me a while to warm up to the idea of IVF. Now that I've mentally prepared myself, I find now that for different reasons it's not such a good idea to proceed. It's the most frustrating thing!
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Keepontrying,
I am not sure what is a good LH level to have on day 3. However, I just read this on a fertility website "In conclusion, elevated day 3 FSH/LH ratio is associated with an inferior outcome in IVF treatment cycles and may be used as an additional predictor for decreased ovarian response." If you doctor is using a strip then it is quite hard for him (or you) to know your actual level of LH. May be he is saying any amount that is significant enough to show on the strip. It might be a good idea to ask him if this is bothering you.
HF
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Havefaith,
Yes, the next time I go in for a visit, I will ask him more about it. Thanks so much!
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Keepontrying,
I was asking a doctor friend of mine today about LH being too high to proceed with IVF. She said that is possible. However, she did not think it was too "accurate" to go by a strip. I am not a doctor but it just does not seem right to "waste" a month unless it is for a good reason.
HF
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Havefaith,
Yes, I was wondering why my doctor uses a strip instead of taking a blood test. Perhaps he feels that he does not want to take unnecessary blood tests when a strip will give him the info he needs. The next time I see him, I will ask him about a blood test. He did say that if I really wanted to give IVF a go, he could give me an LH suppressant so that my high-ish LH level would not release the egg early. But an LH suppressant might also suppress the development of follicles/eggs and as a result I may end up with no eggs given the low number of follicles I have to start with. Thanks for asking your doctor friend about my situation. I am very keen to move on and not wait any longer.
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hi keepontrying & HF,
I've been doing IVF since last Nov. Actually, I've had 2 back to back IVFs and the second one tested positive but ended up with m/c. I just went thru another cycle of treatment but this cycle is also a failure as we had problem with egg retrieval. I too have a low number of follie each cycle (like 1-4 each cycle) but our doctor have not said to take a break in btw becos of medications. He only said that we should try before i reach 40. We only took a break the month following m/c when we couldn't find any follie. IVF is expensive but its our only shot so we will keep trying and I believe we will have success soon. Also, our Doctor said that i do stand a chance since i did fall pregnant...its just a matter of the right egg. However, I don't know about LH, should I ask our doctor to check the LH at our next go?
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alijbj,
Yes, given that you did get pregnant means you have a chance of getting pregnant again. So definitely keep on trying. I think it's good that your doctor in a way is pushing you to keep going. He seems to have your best interest at heart. The doctors I've consulted tell me it's most likely my age and poor egg quality which is why I keep miscarrying. It just all depends on the batch of eggs you get from cycle to cycle. I am praying that one of these cycles I will get the one good egg, so for me I've been trying every month so as not to let a batch go by that may just be the one with that one good egg. I am sure if you keep trying as well, that your one good egg will pop up one of these cycles. The other observation I've had is that I do think the medication somehow gets your ovaries working again because there are so many stories of women who try IVF to only give it a break and then they get pregnant naturally. So the next time you need to take a break for whatever reason, it certainly does not hurt to try naturally. Yes, if you would ask your doctor about the impact of the LH level early on in one's cycle, that would be great. I would be curious to know what other doctors say about it. Good luck with your next cycle.
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hi keepontrying,
thanks for your thoughts. i will definitely ask my doctor about LH at my next cycle. and i will keep going with acupuncture.
good luck to you!
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Alibj - one thing to think about if you are almost 40 and have already had multiple IVFs in HK without success, you should consider going to Cornell in New York. They are one of the most respected fertility centers in the world and specialize in women over 40.
There are VAST differences in the quality of fertility labs. (Measurements, temperatures, timing, etc. all require a level of expertise and judgment that varies widely.) Apparently, the main lab everyone uses in HK is "ok" but not fantastic. So if you are a tough case, you need to go somewhere better before you run out of time.
My dear friend tried IVF 5 times in HK and was told she simply couldn't get pregnant. She went to Cornell and got pregnant on the first try, with twins. So for her third child, she went directly to Cornell and again got pregnant on the first try.
This is all very important to me as I am 40 and trying. I plan to give HK tries with two IUIs, one IVF, then go to Cornell.
I would be interested to know comments on the fertility doctors in HK everyone is seeing?
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nutmeg,
I am also 40.
I have been seeing Dr. Ho for about 1 year. I have had 1 IVF and 3 IUIs (with Gonal F) and 2 IUIs (without meds). I got pregnant on an IUI without meds (then ended in m/c) and then the following month got pregnant naturally - but m/c again in week 10. I think the world of Dr. Ho and Kelly - but it is so wierd that I have not been able to get pregnant with meds or anything but the natural IUI.
Can you give PM me any information that you have on Cornell Fertility Centre? any contact details? I would like to may be try that in July. Thanks.
Havefaith
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788
17 yrs ago
Nutmeg, Havefaith, I did my first IVF at Cornell in Jan last year. Although, it was unsuccessful, if i could have done my 2nd one there, I would have preferred so because they are really at the forefront of all the research like co-culture and blastocyst transfers. Like nutmeg said, the lab is considered absolutely top notch. The volumes they handle really gives all the docs a better sense of what works and what doesn't. So when they say they have high success rate- they really mean it.
The 2 main difference between the 2 places is how the docs deal with you and the cost. You see an endocrinologist not an ObGyn. Mine was referred by my wonderful obgyn in nyc as he supposed to have better bedside manners than others- Dr Issac Kligman. But if and when I had any questions, it would generally be the nurses or the head nurse assigned to you. They have such a high volume- it is a zoo from 6:30am-8:30am that its impossible to get hold of them for more than 2 secs. There is a lot more hand holding in HK. Cost for me was around USD 17,000 incl meds.
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788, thanks for your advice. can you give me more details about Cornell? i'm now 39 and have tried ivf 3 times (1st cycle no fertilization, 2nd cycle m/c at 8weeks, 3rd cycle failure with egg retrieval).
nutmeg, i've been seeing Dr. Derek Lo since last Dec. He is really professional and explains everything in detail and their lab ProlIVFic is good too. but as you said, better to find the top notch labs so i will consider Cornell. if you have details, can you also pass on to me. many tx
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alijbj,
I think you mentioned on another thread that Zhou Jia recommended that you go with natural IVF for your next cycle. Did she say why? I am considering this as an option but have not discussed this with my doctor yet.
Also, do you are anyone on this forum know the difference between ovidrel and pregnyl. My last doctor gave me ovidrel for triggering ovulation when needed and for progesterone support post ovulation. My current doctor uses pregnyl. I had an IUI for the first time just over two weeks ago. Although I triggered naturally, my doctor gave me a shot of pregnyl just after the IUI and then another 4 days after and the third shot 4 days after that. I have now been waiting for my period and am now 3 days late. You would think that is good news, but my pregnancy test was negative this morning :-( For the last 2 days, I started to get some brown spotting so I figured my period was coming. However, still not major bleeding yet. This is very unusual because my cycles have been very regular (26-28 days). And it's always been the case that when I start to see brown blood, the red bleeding starts several hours later. This time it's been 2 days. I am soooooo confused. Could the delay in bleeding be because of the pregnyl? Any insight would be helpful.
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hi keepontrying,
hope its a BFP for you. i remember the nurses at the lab said that brown spotting could be part of the implantation. hope this is the case for you. sorry, i also used ovidrel for the trigger shot so not sure about pregnyl.
good luck!
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Hi there everyone,
Well, my period came as expected and I went in for my day 3 scan today. Saw only two follies and have decided to go ahead with the stimulation with the intention of doing IVF. My LH level still showing a high-ish level, but decided I did not want to wait another cycle. I think my fertility may be heading south very quickly so I am getting more and more discouraged. What a terrible feeling!
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Keepontrying,
Did you ask about your LH level this time?
HF
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Havefaith,
Yes, I did ask. My doctor said that based on his experience, the strip test is enough to let him know that my LH level is higher than it should be. He could do a blood test to check the actual level but felt there was no need to spend the extra $ and take blood when the strip gave him the info he needed. For this cycle, he ended up giving me gonal F and an injection to suppress my LH level. So far so good. No major side effects and the injections are not that bad. We will see how well I respond to the stimulation. I'm not too hopeful in getting too many eggs as we only saw two follies so I am just praying that I just get one good egg. How are you doing? Are you ready to try again?
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Keepontrying,
I hope you do get at least one more egg. (Fingers and toes crossed)
We will probably be doing natural cycle IUI this month before we go for IVF next cycle.
Let us know how your second scan go. How much Gonal F are you on. Good luck!
HF
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Hello Everyone,
I have been reading various threads for a couple years now, and want to thank everyone as I have learned alot. I especially want to thank HaveFaith, whose name is an inspiration to us all.
I definitely agree with Nutmeg's assessment of IVF in HK, as I have not had good results, and plan on going to the US for my next try. I had 2 miscarriages at 39, then I had 2 more miscarriages aat 40 and 41. Since then, I was told I don't need 'fertility' treatment, but one of the top fertility docs in HK. I had to almost beg for an IUI, after he told me I didn't need IVF, since I get pregant naturally. Even though I was 41! After 2 failed IUIs, I finally convinced him to let me do an IVF. I have now done 2, and both failed. I am now in the middle of my 3rd, and only had 1 healthy egg, after PGD. Has anyone tried PGD? Thanks again everyone and for those who are approaching 40 and are debating between IUI and IVF, I highly recommend going straight to IVF, as time is not on our side.
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Jade,
I am so sorry to hear about your m/cs. They are tough. I have had 3 in the past 2 years - and have often found faith again. I am so pleased to learn that my name has also inspired you.
Wishing you a successful IVF. All we need is one embryo. Keep us posted on how it goes. Baby dust to you!
HF
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Havefaith,
I am on 300 Gonal F. I am going in for a scan tomorrow. Will let you all know how it goes. Good luck with your natural IUI. Lots of baby dust to you!
Jade,
I am sorry too to hear about your miscarriages. Like Havefaith, I had 3 but all in one year (last year). I have not tried PGD. Do you recommend it? When you say that the IVF labs are just okay in Hong Kong, which lab(s) are you and Nutmeg referring to? Best of luck with your next IVF cycle and do let us know how it goes.
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Thank you for everyone's support and encouragement. I have read this site for so long, I am glad to finally be contributing. I go to the HK Sanatorium IVF Center, and I am sure it is 'fine' but I just find it odd that I can get PG naturally twice in one year at 40 and 41 and then have 2 failed IVFs. My friend in the US highly recommended PGD, as it screes the embryos for the healthy ones. It is especially good for someone who has a lot of eggs (like she does), so they can decide which eggs to transfer. As it can help prevent MC and can screen for downs syndrome, etc. I had 6 'perfect' 8 cell eggs on Day 3, but after PGD, only 1 was healthy. Had I not done PGD they wouldn't have known which were the best to transfer back. So it is good news that I had a healthy embryo, but bad that 5 others were abnormal. I also look at PGD as a 'time saver' as it can prevent (not always) another mc, which not only is heartbreaking, it takes away critical time, which I cannot afford at 41.
One other important note.....another good friend really recommend 'Heparin' which is a shot you can take during the 2ww, which helps prevent mc. I am on it now, and crossing my fingers.
Baby dust to everyone and like another great contributor's name "Keep on Trying!".
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Jade88,
I know what you mean about miscarriages. They do take away critical time as I have found all last year. PGD does not seem to make sense for me though. I went in for my scan today and we only found 3 follies (3 days ago there were only 2) so the stimulation helped another one grow. I was hoping to see more, but I suppose it is what it is. It looks like I will go in for the egg retrieval sometime next week. So far no side effects but that is probably because I have so few eggs. As for heparin, I do not mean to scare anyone, but wasn't there or isn't there currently a big recall on this drug in the US? I recall reading something about heparin manufactured in China which was contaminated.
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Hi All,
Could you provide me the contact names and numbers for the recommended clinics in HK to do an IVF or IUI?
Someone here advised to go straight to IVF and skip IUI for the worth of time, do most of you feel the same way and that IUI does not really help very much to get pregnant?
I am based in Beijing, and IUI and IVF treatments are hard to get in Beijing. I know Beijing Third Hospital does it but there are just so many people waiting to get treatment there and the service is still lacking.
I may go to HK this month end and I'm thinking that I can get a treatment during my 6 days stay there.
Thanks....
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traveller35,
I think it all depends on how old you are and under what circumstances you have been TTC. For me, I have been able to get pregnant naturally, but suffer from recurrent miscarriages. Given my age, I can no longer afford to waste any more time trying to conceive naturally. I decided to go straight to IVF and only did an IUI the first time because my doctor was so sure I would not get pregnant that cycle because of my high LH level. I did not get pregnant with the IUI and am now just going with IVF. Names that I've come across who have come recommended on this forum include Philip Ho, Derek Lo, Milton Leung, William So, Alex Doo. I am sure there are many others. The two labs that come up as well are the HK Sanitorium and ProlIVFic. I am newer to the IVF world (as I am trying it for my first time just now) so perhaps others who have more experience with this will be able to pass on more of their wisdom. Good luck!
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SA
17 yrs ago
I am seeing Dr. Stevenson. He is good but very expensive. He uses ART in Prince's Building for the IUI-related stuff. I had one unsuccessful IUI and one aborted IUI coz follicles did not develop. I have high FSH but no LH issues. I am trying to decide whether to take a break or push him to go to IVF - he feels I am not a good IVF candidate as my high FSH resuts in very few viable follicles. I am in my late 30s and wonder what I should be doing...
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Keepontrying,
I am 40 years old, have had a m/c 2 years ago at 10 weeks pregnancy, started trying again 1.5 year ago, went on clomid and injection treatment for 7 months without success, very few eggs each cycle, currently on TCM concoction medication for almost 3 months now. But as others on this forum have mentioned, time is not on my side so thats why I'm thinking of doing IVF even though the cost is higher than other treatments but when you add it up it comes up to quite some amount too after all the trials.
I wonder if it is normal for most if not all of the semen tend to fall out after m/l, cause that's what I'm experiencing.
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traveller35,
Given your age and how few eggs you get per cycle, you may want to give IVF a try. I know some doctors use clomid but I think it's supposed to thin your lining which actually reduces your chances of getting pregnant. Some doctors I've consulted don't like clomid at all for that reason. FSH costs more but does not have any negative effect on the lining. In any case, it took me a while to get used to the idea of IVF but now that I've mentally prepared myself with going ahead with it, I wished I had pushed myself earlier to consider it. At least then I would know where I stand. It turns out now that for my last few cycles, I am not such a great IVF candidate, but I feel I am running out of time and have to at least give it a go. You may want to have a few things checked out if you have not already (e.g., your FSH level to see how well you would respond to the stimulation, etc.). It doesn't hurt to consult a few doctors. you can then decide after whether you indeed want to go ahead with IVF or not. Lastly, given your miscarriages I assume you are able to get pregnant naturally. IVF may be able to help select the better quality eggs to transfer which may help in reducing the chance of another miscarriage. I am thinking this for myself (as I suffer from recurrent miscarriages). However, given that i have so few eggs I don't have a lot of choice in a way. I think my doctor will end up transferring everything back in if I am so lucky to get any eggs that fertilize. By the way, I think it's normal for some of the semen to fall out after m/l. Whatever gets in (through the cervix) stays in. The rest comes out. Have you tried elevating your bum for 30 minutes after m/l? That is supposed to help in keeping more of the semen in.
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ezpz
17 yrs ago
Nutmeg, can you please give me the details of Cornell in New York? I'm 41 and is my last chance this year
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Hi everyone,
Could you give me the details of Cornell in New York ? or website?
Thanks
lolo32
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