Posted by
trying!
16 yrs ago
Happy New Year to everyone. Its been a while since I was on this site, but I unfortunately haven't had any great news to share.
I've got "unexplained" infertility and have had 5 failed IVF cycles. On my 1st cycle the Dr discovered a chocolate cyst on one of my ovaries, but told me that shouldn't be an issue for conception. I changed Drs after the first 2 cycles failed and I was told again by the new Dr that chocolate/endo cysts on my ovary should not affect IVF, but it seems that after my last failed attempt that the last Dr in Australia found more endo and said that given we had an egg quality issue, it may be that the endo is affecting me. I'm 35 now (been trying for 4 years).
I am wondering if anyone can recommend a GOOD doctor who does laproscopy in HK to remove my endo/cysts. I have used Dr Clement Chan in the past (3rd and 4th cycle), but I am not sure I want to go back to him as he seems overly confident, and gave up on us after our 4th IVF failed (he also cited that endo should not be a problem - but told me I had bad eggs?!?).
I'm now doing IVF in Australia (which is a million times better than the process in HK), but I don't have time to go back there to do a laproscopy.
Any recommendations would be much appreciated!
Trying!
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Thanks May C
I was told the same thing as you - that the chocolate cycts shouldn't be a problem with IVF, but I've now done 5 attempts and the only thing all the Drs have said is "maybe its embryo quality". I got lots of eggs on all attempts - but the Dr in Australia said that its not the amount - its the quality that counts. So now that you have your cysts out, you may actually get less, but your quality should be better hopefully.
If you are by any chance thinking of doing IVF, I would strongly recommend Sydney IVF. Its the best IVF clinic I've ever been to. HK is pre-historic in comparison. At Sydney IVF they try to rule out all sort of factors and get to the bottom of the issue. You also get amazing access to the Drs, Nurses and the embryologists who show you the eggs, explain everything and are just amazing. They ensure integrity and go for day 5 transfers - and they are cheaper than HK. They also do genetic testing so try to ensure the embryo they put back is a good one. The clinic is amazing!
If you need any information about IVF, happy to help. I feel like an expert now....sadly.....
Good luck and yes, hopefully someday we'll both have good news!
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Hi MayC
Yes, we've tried accupuncture, herbs....all sorts of things. I've left no stone unturned. A Dr recently told me that Chinese Herbs may be a problem for endo - as they add to the estrogen which causes the endo. He said some herbs lead to elevated levels and are actually not good. So, I've given up everything. Am probably going to go for laproscopy and get rid of the endo once and for all - as then at least I won't have any pain hopefully. What ever then happens is up to the gods.....I've lost the will to keep fighting this and trying IVF....its a long hard rollercoaster ride - and not for the faint hearted!
Good luck with your IVF. If you really want to do it in HK - then I'd recommend Sanatorium - as they do day 5 transfers which helps get good quality eggs. Philip Ho is probably they best in HK. Despite the costings - don't go cheap on IVF....its really not worth it and you can end up in a bad way if the Doc doesn't do things right. The Protocol adopted is really key - it has to work for your body. Also insist you speak to the embryologist. Unfortunately I was never given access - but its quiet important to understand what is going on at all times.
Good luck!
T!
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788
16 yrs ago
Dear Trying! I have followed your previous threads somewhat. I am sorry to hear of your failed attempts at IVF. From your post it seems you have tried a lot of possibilities, I just want to ask you whether you are also trying naturally. Now I have a 4 month old and these sleepless nights are nothing compared to the emotional agony these processes can put one through. I still think those 3 years were one of the toughest I have had so far. I had 4 failed IUI's and 2 failed IVF's. We also kept getting low grade embryos. In the end I was so distraught at the thought of another round of IVF that I decided to take a break and get back to enjoying with my partner once more. And we ended up getting pregnant naturally. It happens! Don't give up on this possibility.... Good luck!
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Hey 788. Thanks for your support! So pleased to hear you've had your bub. I hope someday I have good news to share. Until then, I'm taking stock of the situation and living each day. This whole situation just seems so unreal, but hey, gotta always look on the bright side......
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maryp
16 yrs ago
have you tried milton leong, he seems to be an ivf expert
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Hi MayC,
I know your post was a long time ago but just wanted to ask you who you should for your cyst removal? I saw Dr Ho for a few go's with IVF with no luck unfortunately. He never seemed to think my cyst was an issue but then I just saw another Dr who thinks if I am to have any chance it needs to be removed but I am not sure of her surgical abilities. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Hi Lexigirl
May C is right. I would recommend it too - but it all depends on where your endo is. Mine was mostly on my ovaries - so despite numerous IVF attempts, I just couldn't get good eggs - Drs put it down to the endo. I removed it in Feb last year, and did 2 subsequent cycles - but unfortunately due to my age - egg quality is still an issue. The chocolate cysts also have come back 1 year on.
I've heard Dr Stevenson is good - and Dr Clement Chan is also good (I used him). Clement Chan is super cautious. He took all away, except for some which was too close to my ovary - and my chocolate cyst is now back unfortunately.
On the brighter side - my periods were better, and I didn't get as many cramps and pains. The lap also cleared a blocked tube I never knew I had - so that was really positive too.
Good luck to you both with the laps/IVF's. Anyone who goes through this all deserves nothing but utmost success!
T!
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MayC,
I'm so sorry to hear that it did not work out. How are you holding up? Its great that you are keeping a positive attitude. Will you try IVF again? I'm sure you will get there if you persevere.
It has not been an easy month for me either. I just had a chemical pregnancy from natural trying. I am quite a bit older than you so really feel that time is running out.
Hang in there!
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May C,
Please stay positive. You WILL get there if you persevere given your age, you are with a good doctor, etc. I understand about the costs -- they are very high so hope your next attempt is successful. Since you have had the lap surgery, is it possible to get pregnant naturally or is IVF the only way?
I am a bit down about it all but am just going to keep trying. Will probably try IUI again sometime soon.
Yes, fingers crossed for both of us.
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May C I am so sorry that the cycle didn't work. I understand completely how devastating it is. I think that is actually the worse thing about any fertility assistance... you know exactly what day you can test and start to imagine all sorts of twinges and feelings trying not to get your hopes up. I am sure 2010 will be a baby year.
I ended up speaking to one of the top fertility dr's in the US who is a friend of a friend. I wanted to ask him about their IVF protocol etc. He said the endo cyst shouldn't be too much of an issue as long as it doesn't flare up with stimulation. Which it didn't previously so I am thinking of just going ahead with the next treatment. He said that the drugs they use during stimulation and the trigger shot are very important in aiding egg quality and that obviously the embryologists are crucial especially if you are taking them to day 5.
So who knows! I can't say I have a huge amount of faith in Hong Kong but flying to the US or Australia is so much more time consuming. And I still cant decide on who to see here if I choose Hong Kong. Still very much like Dr Ho but then didn't have success with him last time so thought I might go and see Dr Lo for a consult as heard lovely things.
So signing off still very confused but hopeful. Oh and trying - don't worry about the cyst coming back... mine did too years ago and I ended up falling pregnant naturally with our little girl. So I honestly don't think it matters too much. I also truly believe that when the stars are aligned and the timing is right it really does happen when it is supposed to no matter which path we all take. Well crossing fingers anyway!!
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Hey Lexigirl
Thanks for your post and for giving me hope.
I did another 2 IVF cycles since my lap - one in Aus and one in the US (before that 5 in HK!). Its amazing the difference between HK, Aus and the US. I highly recommend the US. The clinic, lab and embryologists were amazing. They did a genetic screening of my embryo's and found that my fastest developing (those that reached Blastocyst on day 5) were genetically abnormal (would have had devastating effect if they were transferred and implated) and those that didnt reach Blastocyst (were slow to divide) were genetically normal. The Drs there think for the last 6 IVF attempts I have done that genetically abnormal embryos were transferred in preference for those which were slow, probably normal too (yet discarded).
So, each IVF has been a learning curve - with the last one the steepest. I was sad to see my chromosomally normal eggs were slow to divide, but happy to see I had at least some chromosomally normal embryos. I was shocked to discover that my beautiful day 5 blastocysts were probably chromosomally abnormal all along.
The US clinic also found I had an immunology problem that prevented implantation. Those with endometriosis have a 70% chance of having this issue. If you have had several failed IVF attempts under the age of 35, its likely you fall in this category of issue.
If you want any more info - PM me and I can give you some food for thought which will amaze you. A 2 week stint in the US is worth all the IVF's you could ever do in HK and more.
They say, if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger. So true!
Good luck guys - you all deserve all the babies in the world. Just keep thinking of all the good things you've all done to make this happen.
T!
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Hi May C
Yes - its a "theory" which is adopted/practiced widely in clinics in the US. There's a lot of literature on the web about this - and you may have read some threads from women who have mentioned immunology issues and even Natural Killer Cell issues? They can both be fixed with medication which is administered in the US, this medication stops embryo rejection and NK cells killing of embryo's. It also helps with embryo quality.
Drs in HK don't believe in it, nor do they test for it. I've had several failed IVF attempts in HK and when I did the blood work for immunology and NK cells (requested by a Dr from the US), I was a high positive - which proved the "theory" that endo does affect you (and explains our failed IVF's in HK).
If you have had several failed IVF attempts and endo, you may be in this bucket too - but then again - if you've already had a baby, then it may be just an embryo quality issue. The US does genetic testing on embryos too - they can tell you whether your blastocysts are genetically normal - and can therefore result in a successful pregnancy. That certainly helps with success rates. They wont' do this in HK unless you request or have a reason - I think its an ethical thing.
Research any IVF clinics in the US (LA, San Fran) and maybe ask your Dr here (although I'd bet they wont' do any testing). Its expensive to get the test done - but I wish I'd done them a lot earlier and stopped wasting my time on IVF in HK.
T.
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ezpz
15 yrs ago
Hi MayC and Trying
I've been absent from this forum for almost a year but when I saw your thread, I feel I should share my experience.
I've tried both IUI and IVF for about a year with no success. In late 2008, I decided to switch doctor to Milton Leong and he suggested I do the immunology test which I did and my blood sample was sent to Chicago for testing. The results confirmed that I had high antibodies and natural killer cells and this could possibly be the reason why past IVFs did not work since my body was rejecting anything foreign including embryos. I was put on a course of Prednisolone (steroids) during my 1st IVF with Milton but it was not successful. In Feb last year, I decided to go back to Derek Lo whom I felt more comfortable and explained to him about the immunology test. Although skeptical, Derek also put me on a course of Prednisolone to lower my immune system. Hey presto, I was pregnant and continued with the medication throughout the 1st trimester. There were side effects of course - weight gain and puffy face!
Today, I'm blessed with a beautiful and perfect 10 week old son.
I hope my experience will help inspire all of you out there TTC. Keep thinking positive and you will succeed. I did at the age of 41.
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Dear MayC,
Haven't been on this forum for a long time, but have been hoping that you have had some success. It seems that you are probably now getting down to the root of your feritlity problems and with luck, 2010 may be a good year for you.
I just saw your last question and would just like to mention that I don't think Prednisolone costs very much. It is a steroid and incidentally, I was prescribed it recently to help combat a very large allergic reaction I had to a food allergy. mind you, I was only on it a week so I don't know what a prolonged course would cost.
Good luck! x
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Ezpz, thanks for sharing your update. Great to hear that your perseverance paid off. Congratulations on the birth of your little boy.
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ezpz
15 yrs ago
Hi Lilpp and May C
Sorry for the late reply as we were on holiday. No, I do not have endometriosis. I was only diagnosed with immunology issues after the blood test which costs around HK$5,000. The steroids were not expensive - about few hundred dollars for a box and I was on it for 3 months (3 capsules per day) so spent a few thousand dollars. That's it. I was also on baby asprin and progesterone gel during the 1st trimester. I hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions or PM me.
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Hi all, i am new to this forum. Thank you very much for sharing your experiment here. I did IUI six times and 2 IVF. The first IVF did not succeed. The secon IVF did implant but then miscarriage at the week 8. It is just so heartbreaking and sad. Since I cannot try again in a few months, i may want to see chinese doctor to improve my body function. Do you have any good one to recommend? also, anyone have IVF experience with Dr Milton Leong? thanks for the sharing again
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I had very good experience with Dr. Milton Leong. He is a more expensive but he is very good with older women and difficult cases. His clinic runs much like the famous U.S. IVF clinic. I had one IVF cycle in a well known clinic in the U.S. and therefore I can have the comparison. I also tried 2 other IVF doctors in Hong Kong but was disappointed with their knowledge and attitude.
Frisbe
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Hi Frisbe, Many thanks for your information. How many IVF cycle have you tried? Have you succeeded now? I heard Dr Leong is always busy and rushed for each appointment, is it true? Who other two IVF doctors you have tried so far? I have been seeing my doctor for over 1.5 years. I have been trying almost each cycle as much as I could. First are IUI (6 times) and then two IVF (coz some cycles need to give up as not respond to injection well). I really love my husband and want to have babies with him. It is just so devastating when i heard my baby did not grow anymore at week8. So, really wanna cool down and gather more information as much i could. appreciated for your sharing.....
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yes, Dr. Leong is very busy but he only does things that is critical in the IVF process. He allows the u/s technician to do the in between u/s scan. He will do the last one to determine the trigger shot before egg retrieval. His clinic has two other doctors. They helped me when Dr. Leong is away. This is why I like Dr. Leong's office because I can still proceed when he is not in his office. When I was in the U.S., I could only see the nurse and the technician. They gave the information to the Dr. and they follow his instructions. This is how these doctors can cope with so many patients.
Dr. Doo is good with younger women and he tends to use high stimulation. This is not good for older women or women with high FSH. Dr. Mok is new and she only did an u/s for me when Dr. Leong was away. I found her friendly and I cannot comment on her medical knowledge since I do not know her much.
Dr. Leong also checks immune problem with women. If you have an immune problem, you will have a high chance of miscarriage. Dr. Leong prescribes heparin and steroid to suppress the immune problems.
I think you can try Dr. Leong and he is good with difficult cases.
Frisbe
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Hi Frisbe, Thank you so much for your information. Really appreciate that~~
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I also wanted to chime in here because I found an HK hemotologist who works with the same clinic in Chicago and will treat immunological issues. His name is Bernard Chan and he's based in Central. I had blood work done in HK for these issues (sent to Chicago for processing) and when the results came back Dr. Chan set up a strategy for me. (My problem isn't getting pg; it's staying pg.)
I've found that Dr. Grace Cheung, part of Lucy Lord's Central practice, is very open to working with people who have such issues and she is working in tandem with Dr. Chan on my case. (That sounds so clinical - ugh!)
I share all of this because like all of you I moved to HK 1.5 years ago from NYC where I had the best care possible and still suffered through 1 M/C, 1 ectopic pg and 1 failed IVF. Moved to HK and started under the care of Dr. Lo, a lovely man but very old-school, who kept recommending straight IVF without looking into any other issues (immunological or otherwise). After 2 failed IVFs and 1 failed FET with Dr Lo (again a lovely man who really wanted to help), I decided it was time to seek out someone who was open to move advanced techniques.
Hence Dr. Cheung (who deals with Western patients coming from Sydney, London and NYC that are used to top-notch, cutting-edge care) and Dr. Chan are my PIPP (partners in pregnancy preparation!) now.
I should also point out that I have endo (mild to moderate) and "diminished embryo reserve" (if that isn't enough to drive you over the edge, I don't know what is!) and had been put on the IVF train for so long. Then Dr. Cheung gave me the wake-up call I needed -- I didn't need IVF b/c I have more luck getting pg on my own than I do with IVF; it's staying pg that I need to work on.
After that lightbulb moment I got pg naturally but miscarried...so the story doesn't have a happy ending yet, but i'm hoping it's coming up in the future.
This was very long-winded and for that I apologize. Guess the main points are: 1) Dr. Lo is old-school so if you've been on the infertility train for awhile don't go to him and 2) if you think immunological issues may be at hand, check out Dr. Bernard Chan.
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!!
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can someone share with me how much does it cost for one ivf round with dr. leong/dr doo's clinic? i'm a bit concerned because i just moved here from singapore and i have still yet to be able to make an appoint with dr. leong (he's either booked up or on conference or on holiday). i also concerned someone said he doesn't have much time (3 mins?).
frisbe - are you still using dr. leong/dr. doo and how many ivfs rounds have you done with them?
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