There is Hope - Keep on Trying

Hello Everyone who has been TTC. I have been reading this site for a few years, and have learned alot along the way from people who have posted their experiences TTC. I just wanted to let everyone know that there is HOPE and to encourage everyone to keep on trying. I am now 15 weeks pregnant with my 3rd IVF. The first 2 were with Dr Ho and were negative. For the 3rd I switched to Dr Alex Doo and it was a success! I am 41 years old and have had a few mc's so Dr Doo was very agressive in the post transfer medication he gave me, unlike Ho who said my mcs were because of my age and there was nothing he could do to help me reduce my mc rate. Not sure if the medication Doo gave me helped or if the embryo was healthy from the beginning, but I do recommend anyone who has had miscarriages to look into taking heparin during your 2week wait, in addition to progesteron, as it helped me. I don't think Ho will give heparin, but Doo gives it to anyone with mc history. Keep up the faith and remembers that miracles do happen as they happened with me! All the best to everyone on this difficult journey.

HI Jade88


Thanks for sharing your encouraging story and congrats to your pregnancy. Did you have other problems like high fsh? I will be turning 40 in Nov and really hope that I fall pregnant before then. I started off the ivf journey in Nov last year and on our second try we had BFP but ended in m/c after 8 weeks. Since then, we've been trying cycle after cycle. I really hope this cycle has worked for me but it does not look so. It is a difficult journey and I do believe God will give me this chance.

Hi Aligbj,


I remember reading about your heartbreaking miscarriage, as I felt your pain, having gone through the same thing myself 4 times. I did not have high FSH (8.1) and my hubby was fine too, so that helped I think. I did alot of acupuncture leading up to IVF and during the cycle too, with Troy Sing. He is expensive by I truly believe in acupunture benefits to fertility. I also heard that acupuncture and herbs can bring down FSH. Wishing you the best of luck in your journey! I know IVF is a heart wrenching and expensive process, but it is worth it, so keep on trying and God Bless.

Jade 88,


Congratulations about your pregnancy! You really do give us all hope. As you may have read, I suffered 3 miscarriages last year and have decided to step it up with IVF this year as I am over 40 as well. I tried one IVF cycle with Dr Derek Lo which failed. I am now taking a break and trying naturally before going for another IVF perhaps in my next cycle. Would you mind sharing what your treatment plan was with Alex Doo exactly? (i.e., dosage of your stimulation, how many eggs you managed to retrieve and fertilize, quality of the embryos, the number you ended up transfering and then the post transfer medication treatment). I was not lucky to fall pregnant post my first IVF cycle, but post the transfer I was on crinone, aspirin, and had 2 or 3 pregnyl injections.


Keepontrying

Hi Keepontrying, My apologies for my delayed response. I sent a very detailed response last night, but my laptop froze as I was trying to sent it. Hopefully I have more success tonight. First off, I do remember your miscarriages, and am very glad you stepped it up to IVF. I have heard very good things about Dr. Lo, so I am sure you are in very good hands. Dr. Doo had me on 225ml morning AND night of Gonal F. Dr HO had me on 450 all in one shot (am) but Doo said that splitting the dose into 2, is more gentle on the eggs. He was right as I had 11 eggs with Doo and only 7 and 6 eggs iwith Ho n IVF#1 and 2. On Day 3 after the retrieval I only had 6 embroys, but all 6 were 8 cell embroyos, which is what you want apparantly. With my previous cycles I had 5 ,6 and 7 cell embryos on Day 3, which was not ideal. Because of my miscarriages, I was 'eligible' to 'pre-genetic testing' (PGD) which tests 4 key chromosones on Day 3 after retrieval, so you know BEFORE the transfer, if the embryos are 'normal' or not. Unfortunately I only had 1 healthy out of the 6 that were tested, but that was the one that 'stuck'. After I did the PGD, I read on an IVF site, that some doctors don't recommend PGD as it might damage the embryo itself in the testing process. Apparantly, they only recommend it if you have a good number of embryos. Although, during my first cycle, I did PGD with only 3 embryos on Day 3, and thankfully 1 was healthy, but it didn't stick. After the transfer with IVF#3, Dr Doo had me on heparin (100ml) twice a day. Plus a progesterone shot once a day. PLus baby aspirin and double dose folic acid. I think I had 1 pregnyl injection a week after transfer. I gave myself a solid 48 hours bedrest after transfer, plus did acupuncture twice a week during the cycle and once the day before transfer and once the day after transfer. THen I took it VERY easy for the rest of hte 2 week wait. I went to work every day, but nothing else. Hardly lifted a finger at home thanks to a very hopeful husband and helper. Didn't travel, no caffeine, nothing 'cold' and tried to be as positive as possible. I only waited one month inbetween IVFs. Troy Sing (acupuncturist) said that the cummulative effect of the hormone treatments increase success, ie the more IVFs the chance improve. Or at least there is more success wtih IVF#3, than #1. HOpe this helps! Please feel free to ask any other questions at all! I will be 42 in August....

Jade88,


Thank you so much for the detail. It's interesting to hear the treatment plan you are/were on. I have heard about splitting the gonal f dosage and how that could help stimulate even more eggs. A few more questions:


1) did you end up transfering just one embryo in the end with Dr. Doo then (i.e., the one that was healthy post the PGD?)

2) Does it make a big difference whether you transfer on day 2 or day 3? You seemed to have transferred on day 3 for all your IVF cycles. My transfer was done on day 2.

3) What is a double dose of folic acid? 800 mg?

4) Did you have all the normal tests done for recurrent miscarriages? Were these tests normal or was there something that prompted Dr Doo to prescribe heparin? What is heparin for exactly?

5) Are progesterone injections more effective than crinone gel or even endometrim (progestone suppositories?). I have used both crinone and endometrim but not the injections.


So happy to hear your story. And thank you so much for sharing it with us. My FSH is not high (~5) but my LH is 4 which I was told is "reasonable" by the doctor, but when I asked the embryologist, she told me that 4 was a bit high. She said usually your LH level would be 1 or 2 (for younger women). Did Dr Doo take an LH test (blood test) on day 3 of your cycle?


Thanks again. You have been very helpful.


Keepontrying

Hi Keepontrying,


Happy to answer any questions you have, as I have learned a lot from this site myself. Before I forget, I do recommend www.ivfconnections.com as well. There is an over 40 'thread' and a 'cycle buddy' thread, that you can connect with other women doing IVF who are your age, and going through at the same time. The site is a bit confusing at first, but you get used to it...

In response to your questions, yes, I only transferred the one healthy embryo, as the others had a 'complex abnormality' and we knew would either not stick or end in miscarriage.

REgarding the day of transfer, yes, I do think this is important. If you decide to do PGD, this is done on Day 3. You don't get the healthy report until Day 4. Then you transfer on Day 5. The day of the retrieval is day 0, not day 1, for some crazy reason. Day 5 transfers are supposed to be 'better' as that it is a natural screening process to let the embryos develop as much as possible outside the womb, to see which ones are the strongest. Kind of natural selection, as by Day 5, only 30% or less of your embryos might still be developing. A good friend had 15 eggs (she has PCOS) so she gets lots of eggs because of her condition. She did not do PGD (no miscarriage history) and had 6 healthy ones on Day 5. So they transfered 2 and froze 4. By waiting until Day 5, they were able to more easily select which ones were the healthy ones, as on Day 3, they might all be the same size, but by Day 5, the strongest should present themselves as further along in development. Apparantly, Day 5 transfer is also similar to a natural pregnancy because on Day 5 the embryo reaches the uterus, where as in a natural pregnancy, on Day 3, the embryo is still in the fullopian tubes. On your next IVF cycle, if you have enough embryos I would suggest trying to get to Day 5. How many eggs did you get? I know someone who is happily pregnant and she only had 4 eggs retrieved and only 2 fertilized, so don't worry if you don't get many, as all you need is one!

Dr. Ho did the 'normal' tests I think for recurrent miscarriage, but I think he also just automatically chaulked it up to my age. So I think I just did the basic blood tests, but not sure which ones. My first miscarriage was at 38, then 39, then 40, then 41! I have another friend who did extensive analysis of recurrent miscarriage with a doc (DeBeers I think). Sshe had 4 in her mid 30's. She did test positive for various antibodies and auto-immune stuff that have been proven to cause misccariage.

Apparantly Dr Doo prescribes Heparin to anyone with mc history. It is a blood thinner, and prevents the blood from clotting. Blot clots can be caused by these 'antibodies' that can build up in early pregnancy, thus preventing necessary nutrients to get the embryo, causing miscarriage.

Not sure if the progesterone injecttions are better than crinone. I know they are hard to get, as the supplier kept running out! I did both the injections AND the suppositories (am and pm). Of course if you progesterne levels are strong, you probably don't need them, but I obviously did as my levels were low.

Your FSH is GREAT! Which is excellent news. I never was told what my LH was, so I have no idea about that. Doo did test me on Day 3 of my cycle, but I never go the LH number, but FSH was 8.1


based on what I have heard, it sounds like with Dr Lo you get more access to the embryologist. At the IVF clinic at the Sanatorium, where Do goes, we never got to speak to the embryologist, and I wish we did.


Hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any more quesitons along the way!

Hi Jade88,


Thanks for your kind words. And you've got lots of details to share as well. That's great info as I'm also with Dr. Derek Lo. I just came back from my appt with Dr. Lo and things aren't looking too great for me. I thought we would have 3rd time lucky but luck is never with us. I know I'm feeling a bit negative right now and feeling a bit despair. Dr. said that my fsh (21, 14, 5) factor is the major factor along with male factor. Hence, my egg quality is not good enough. I asked about whether I can do day 3 or day 5 transfers, he said the embryos are unlikely to grow or develop, there's better chances inside me. And becos DH has male factor, a natural cycle would stand a slim chance. It seems like egg donation is the final route but in HK, you can only do egg donation provided that you find the egg donor you know of. I really can't come to myself in going this route, its like popping up to your girl friend and say "hey, would you mind donating your eggs to us". I hate myself for not starting few years earlier...only if i knew that the medicine called "roacutane" i took 15 years ago damaged my ovaries. That's why I only have 1-3 eggs each cycle.


Jade88, you started this thread saying not to give up hope but i really feel that things are not working for us. Sorry about all this, I just need to let it out.


Again, congrats to your pregnancy. Enjoy every momemt of it!

Hi Aligbj,


I am so sorry to hear your news. I realize that I am one of the lucky ones, and the fact that my husband does not have an issue, has made me even luckier. I have a friend who did a donor egg is Spain and she said it was an excellent program. Everyone there was very welcoming, spoke excellent English and she felt like she was on holiday, which really helped in her cycle. I think there is another thread on this site that discusses donor egg programs and lists the spanish clinic. The chances when using a donor egg is significantly higher, so please look into it and consider it an option to bring you and your husband a loving child.

God Bless and keep the faith!

Jade88,


Thanks again for all the detail. I have a lot more questions now to ask the doctor. PGD is probably not a good option for me since I do not get many eggs, although this last cycle which I am trying naturally, I saw 5 follicles on day 1. Yes, you do get more access to the embryologist at Prolivfic. I went in for a counseling session with Zhou Jia (the chief embryologist) before deciding to go ahead with IVF. She was very helpful in explaining the entire process. She was very good in giving examples of people who have succeeded and those who have failed. I think she is very knowledgeable. Wishing you a continued smooth pregnancy. Congrats again!


Keepontrying

alijbj,


I know it's a really tough time now, but do hang in there. Although I've only tried IVF once, I know what it is to feel disapointment as I experienced huge disappointment after each of my 3 miscarriages. It's the most discouraging thing. And I keep wondering if it will ever happen, or if it's just not meant to be. You did get pregnant once so IT IS possible. Try to take some time off. When I read your story, I see a bit of you in me as you have been trying every cycle you can (like I have). I get down for a little while and then find a way to pick myself up and keep going. You have been doing the same trying IVF every cycle you can. One thought for you is perhaps you can try to do another cycle without the cetrotide. It worked for you the first time. The reason I say this is because D Lo gave me cetrotide on day 3, the same day he started me on gonal f. I ended up with just one leading follicle (the others did not grow). I understand cetrotide suppresses FSH and can therefore suppress the stimulating effects of gonal f. Also, I heard that you do need "some" LH in your body so suppressing the LH 100% is not always the best. I am not a doctor but I have done a lot of reading on the internet and my feeling is if you can delay the cetrotide to the very end (say get the injection on day 9 or 10) that would be the best. What is even better is if you go without the cetrotide at all, but then it makes it difficult timing the pickup. Whatever you did the first time you got pregnant, why not strive for the same treatment plan again?


Do hang in there. Get some rest and perhaps take a long weekend away from Hong Kong just to get your mind off things. Good luck and don't worry about feeling like you have to "get it all out". That's what we are here for.


Keepontrying

Hi Jade88,


I have sent you a PM.


Keepontrying

Hi Jade88,


It is great to hear that you got success with Dr Alex Doo, your information is very helpful too. I just had a transfer by Dr Alex Doo yesterday at Santarium. And now is waiting.


How many months you had tried accupunture befor you went to Alex Doo? or did you do any accupunture or any preparation before you see Alex Doo for the 3rd attempt?


I am not sure if it will be successful this time, but it is great to have such blog to share the experience and get the spirital support.


lolo32