Posted by
trying!
18 yrs ago
I am now on my second IVF attempt (after 3 failed IUI's, a failed 1st cycle IVF and failed FET). We followed the exact same protocol this time (2nd Cycle), but I also decided to do TCM (acupuncture etc) hoping this would increase the fertilization rate and the quantity of 'top grade' eggs. Strange thing was that the opposite has happened despite the fact that I am healthier this time, have been doing yoga, TCM and am 100x more relaxed than the first time. Seems this 2nd Cycle has only gotten half the amount of eggs fertilized compared to last time (despite using the exact same protocol).
Has anyone had a similar experience? Does each attempt of IVF make you produce less eggs/get less fertilized? How many eggs are recommended to get to day 3/5? Does anyone know where I can get the stats?
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Hi trying,
You sound really stressed, the number of eggs they get I think is mainly a product of how well your body reacts to the drugs. The quality of our eggs as my doctor kepps telling me is mostly affected by our age. I assume you are getting ICIS as this seems standard in HK? Can I ask how many are getting fertilised I just had my third egg collection and my problem is not with the fertilization but with the developement of good quality embryos.
My doctore advised that they would decide on a three day or five day transfer dependent on how many embryos they had and there quality
Good luck,
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Hi rose1234
Thanks for your info. I guess I am just getting somewhat confused as am just not sure what it all means. 1st IVF cycle I got 17 fertilized, but only 5 made it to day 5. I did nothing that cycle and just continued life as usual. None of them took. This cycle I did all the right stuff and just had retrieval. I have just been told at day 1 that 9 fertilized but they don't know about the 6 others. That seems to be all they say and I am not sure what this means. They also say that they never 'grade' eggs as 1 as that is an impossible grade. Did you do your IVF's at the Sanatorium?
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Trying,
I did IVF at the Sanatorium in April. I have only 5 eggs retrieved - and 4 fertilized. They ended up transferring two Grade2+ and one Grade 2. The clinic advised me that they have a higher standard of grading than the other clinics in Hong Kong - as such a Grade2+ at HK santorium was worth a Grade 1 at other clinics.
How many did you have this time? It sounds like you have 15 this time - that's really good.
HF
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Hi trying,
I'm at Sanatorium too and I know it's really confusing and depressing. I had my retrival Saturday and from 16 eggs have a total 9 fertilised (various grades) and one uncertain. This is my third shot after my second shot when i had similar numbers of eggs i ended up not having any good enough to freeze. When I asked the doctor if this was because of my egg quality he said it could be the sperm quality as we have a problem with spem morphology. I am having them put back in tommorow on day 3.
With your six others did they tell you that the eggs wern't mature yet or they are uncertain as to whether they have fertilised? Sometimes i wonder how good the lab is, but they seem to be able to get lots of other peoples embryos to day 5. I think that there is no definitive test for egg quality which is why they grade the embryos. Best of luck with your 9 hope they all "really good"
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Hi HF
Thanks for that info. I always wondered why they never gave above a Grade 2. My first cycle was in Feb. Got 5 Grade 2s. Had retrieval for 2nd Cycle yesterday. Got 9 fertilized and 6 (?unknown). Will find out tomorrow the grades of those that fertilized I think. Am quite nervous about it given that last cycle each day the eggs kept decreasing. I came to dread the call.....
Were you successful? I hope so!
T
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Hi Rose1234
Agree with you. Am also questioning Sanatorium. Don't know who called me today, but they just couldn't tell me about the other 6. All she said was "I don't know". 9 fertilized,that's all I know.
Hope you are sucessful. I have everything crossed for you. After going through all of this, there must be an oasis at the end of it all! I truly think anyone that goes through this is an amazing individual!
T
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T,
I dread the daily call also hope all yours do well, i will keep everything crossed for you. can I ask which Dr. you use?
HF,
Did you have day three or day five transfer. I have done so much reading on the net now that I have got myself in a real mess about it.
Rose
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Trying,
I know it is hard - but try to keep calm and positive. I know someone who only had one egg retrieved and 1 ET which resulted in a healthy baby. We only need one egg and one sperm!
I know what you mean by dreading those calls - I joked with Kelly and asked if it is possible that we will lose them all after Day 3. What I have seen is - most that make it thru Day 1 will make it thru Day 3. Depending how many you have, they may even wait for Day 5 - the place where the embryo is placed is closer to where they would be if it all took place naturally.
Keep calm and drink some fish maw soup - it helps the embryo stick after the ET.
HF
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Hi Rose
I am using Dr Stevenson. Great guy, like him alot and he's definitely gotten aggressive on the drugs and gotten me loads of eggs - but regardless - quality is always the issue. He can't help that and I just don't know how to? I guess if we knew how to do that, we'd all be set. Let me know how you go. I am only a day behind you. Fingers crossed!
HF - Thanks for your positive reassurance. Will get onto the fish maw!
Am off to get some accupuncture now - should help with the bloating - and with all hope my sanity.
T
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Rose,
I had Day 3 transfer. Dr. Ho said they did not want to wait for Day 5 (because I only had 4 fertilized embryo on Day3). Dr. Ho transferred 3 embryo and I did not get pregnant. Kelly was very optimistic and said I reacted well to the drugs and should be able to conceive next time (ofcourse that could have been a sales pitch).
I also did accupuncture the day after the transfer. It did not help in my case - but it did relax me.
As previously suggested by HKCC, no exercise after your ET.
Take care and lots of babydust to you all!
HF
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dear Trying and Rose1234
i think both of you have done well.. 9 eggs fertilised.. thats already an achievement!! i spoke to Dr Ho today.. from what I understand that the quality of embryo ie day 3/day 5/grade 2 or grade 2+ is only an indicative but not definitive. I believe there are cases where an embryo does not look likely to implant and it did and vice versa. So it is really hard to pinpoint what is the best solution bc the outcome could be anyone's guess.
having said that - I understand the anxiety that both of you are going. I hope the embies grow well. Keep us posted.
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Thanks to everybody,
HF - I'm not sure about much of anything in the crazy IVF rollercoaster but I'm pretty sure kelly doesn't do sales pitches so best of luck for next time.
Thanks to everybody else can't wait to get this part over with and then I can just start stressing over the 2ww. Let me know how you go "trying"
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Hi Everyone,
i am going to start ny treatment soon. just wanna ask about the egg retrieval if is it pain, how long.please let me know as i am starts getting nervous now.
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Workingmom,
Dont worry about the egg retrieval - you are under GA when they retrieve the eggs. I stayed in the hospital for about half the day - for the whole thing and then went home to rest.
Not painful at all!
HF
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Yes Working Mum, agree with HF there is no pain at all and they give you some pain killers to take home just in case - i have never needed them.
Waiting to see how well they will fertilise and develope is much more painful.
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Hi Guys
Just got the dreaded call. Have 5 embryo's - 3 very good and 2 good. Have to go back to do transfer tomorrow. Not sure whether I want to cry or not. Have locked my self in my office. What does this all mean? is there really any hope in a day 3 transfer? if they can't survive until day 5 in ideal environments, then do they have any hope surviving in me? I don't get it....
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T!,
Three are very good and lots of people get pregnant on a day three transfer. I have done heaps of research on this on the net and while some Dr's argue as per your statment above that they should be able to survive to day 5 before being put back there are a lot of variables involved, for instance a lot of labs don't do day five because it is much harder to achieve.
All your five embryos if left may well survive to day five but it seems to be that once you are down to that number they always seem to do day three so you are certain of an ET. Maybe you should quiz your doctor about why they do this. I have to ask my Dr the same thing i am hopeing it's not just to keep us from feeling like failures.
Sorry I was trying to cheer you up, - have a great transfer tomorrow, I am in this afternoon came to work but have been completley unproductive.
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Trying!
Rose is right - Day 3 vs Day 5 does not reduce your chances. There are many variables to consider. Dont lose faith - try to keep calm. If you have time, try to get an accunpture session in before ET - if nothing else it will take your mind off this and help you relax.
Have faith + lots of sticky baby dust to you!
HF
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Thanks so much to both of you! I know I should keep positive. Haven't spoken to the Dr yet. He left a voicemessage for me at 8.30pm last night saying that things weren't as good as last time. Tried to call today but he's out.
Did anyone do acupuncture before ET and after ET and if so, how many times after? I did it last night and it was great, but again, there's so much conflicting info out there - apparently some people say its bad because it causes you uterus to contract?
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Trying!
My TCM doc asked me to go in 24 hours before and after ET. I ended up going in 24 hours after ET - just cos of ET happening on the weekend and she does not work weekends. You are right there are conflicting views on accupuncture with IVF. There are also conflicting view on whether it is good to have the uterus contract for ET - TCM's view that some contraction means increase in blood flow.
If it makes you feel good, then do it. If you are concerned about it, then dont do it. At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong answer. The combination did not work for me but has worked for others.
Take care and try your best to stay calm.
HF
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dear Trying
I second what Rose and HF said earlier abt Day 3 or Day 5 transfer. There are too many variables and really - there is no way of telling what will work and what will not work. You just do your best and hope for the best. There is always a chanc so dont lose hope!Be kind and good to yourself.. you deserve it.
I did acupunture 24 houre before ET and 24 hours after ET. And during the 2ww-no acupunture and no herbs.
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Hi trying,
I did my accupucture 24 hrs before ET. I wanted to have it after ET too but the accupucturist told me that there is no actual evidence or study shown the increase of success rates by having the accup.of after ET. She prefered me stay home and be relaxed as much as possible to avoid the crowds and heats in Central.
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Hi all
Spoke to the Doc last night. Apparently up until a few years ago everyone had to do day 3 transfers. The reason for this is that the technology didn't exist to make the eggs last until day 5. It seems that the culture needs to be changed for the eggs to continue growing, so at day 2 they make the decision as to whether or not to transfer or continue (change cultures) up to day 5. Given we didn't have too many this time the lab advised to do transfer at day 3 as opposed to risk losing the eggs with a culture change and waiting to day 5 (and being left with no eggs to transfer). So basically, seems its all a quality, quantity and risk analysis that they take on day 1/2 - and its not really based on any hardcore facts. Day 3 transfer does however seem to lower the success rate of sanatorium from about 50% to about 40% based on adding the qualifier that they may not have picked the strongest eggs which they otherwise would have if they left them to day 5.
Alas, transfer day today so fingers crossed!
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