need advice, flying to HK for fertility treatment



ORIGINAL POST
Posted by macaron mania 16 yrs ago
HI,

I have failed three IUIs and two IVFs in Tokyo. I am going to make an appointmnt with Dr. Ho to try again in HK (I have a two year old daughter from IUI with Dr. Ho). My memory of which day of the cycle I had to visit the clinic is very blur from the last time around, and need some enlightenment.


If I can narrow down the possible date for Day1 of my cycle, then I can book a flight around that time for the first visit. Then I can either fly back to Tokyo and do self injection and come back for the U/S monitoring, or stay for U/S and IUI or IVF. When do you normally have to go back for U/S after the first visit? My cycle is between 22 and 28days, and when I do IUI, it happens around Day 11. Would it make more sense to stay for the whole two weeks???


I just want to try again with Dr. Ho before I call it quit. I am 42yr old and maybe my time is over, but my husband wants more children so badly I feel I need to at least try one more year. It is taxing in many aspects, financially, mentally, and physically, but I don't want to call it quit just yet.

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COMMENTS
Havefaith 16 yrs ago
MM,


The first visit is on the second or third day (after the flow). The u/s are about 2 or 3 days apart - from what I remember. I would think it makes more sense to stay for the first 10 days (day 2 to 11) rather than flying back and forth. Less stressful as well! Give Kelly a call before you make your travel arrangements, I am sure she will be very helpful.


Good luck!


HF

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lolo32 16 yrs ago
hi MM,


Sorry to hear that you failed this time. If you fly to HK, I think you may assume to stay the full 2 weeks, and then you can fly back to Japan for the rest in the 2ww. I know it is pressy in time. But pls remember you have a lovely daughter, which is much better than none, like me.


Dont give up, and relax. I think it is very important. My problem is i dont relax at all, and always working, moving around. If you can make it the first time, you can do it the second time. No worries. I heard they have patient who get pregnant at age 45 naturally. I am sure Dr Ho can help you.


For me, I will try to move one step backward to do IUI instead. As 3 times IVF makes me feel very burden, in terms of the chemical stuff in my body. And more and more I feel the distance to be able to get success.


I heard a lot of success stories of IUI, and i hope it will give me the chance and if I get positive, I hope my HCG level is high enough to sustain. It seems it is all the chemical stuff helps me to get positive but in fact, it is not real. So the HCG comes down after one week.


Healthy food seems to be important too. I eat quite a lot of junk food myself, as I usually go for fast food for breakdown or lunch. And eating out with clients also has a lot of MSG. I need to change that too.


I wish you get this time right with Dr Ho, dont worry, you will make it again.


lolo32

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Hi Havefaith! Congrats on your success. I have read your thread and am very inspired from your success. Hoope you are having easy pregnancy after a long journey. ANd thanks for the advice. Yes, I agree, I should call up Kelly and she should be helpful.


Hi lolo,

Thanks for your encouragement and advice. Yes, it seems I sould stay the whole2weeks in HK. Yes, I have a daughter and it takes a lot of energy but gives me happy time as well so I will try to remember that and try not to get stressed out about not getting preggy again. I can imagine how hard it is for you having a full time job involving client entertainment! Try to order less unhealthy food...YEs, I noticed MSG makes me feel sick too. If I eat out many days, I get like hang over. I am taking all the supplements and trying to eat healthy again...


Have a very good new year. everyone!

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Iolana 16 yrs ago
MM

I've sent you a pm - please check your inbox.


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Havefaith 16 yrs ago
MM,


Good luck for your next cycle!


Iolo32,

I would agree eating healthy is probably not a bad idea - both for TTC and thereafter for being pregnant. It also sounds like your job is quite stressful - Are you a lawyer too? I started working part time last year becos I figured it would help with TTC - I dont think it is necessary for everyone but it appeared to be necessary for me. Good luck!


HF


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lolo32 16 yrs ago
hi Havefaith,


Thanks for your encouragement. I am not a lawyer, I am a partner in an asset management firm, so we have high net worth clients to serve, and I need to travel to meet them esp to Japan. As you know these days during the financial tsunami, everyone in the office is stressful, and I need to face and explain to a lot of clients. In Sep and Oct, the worst, so may be this is the reason i didnt prepare well for the 3rd time IVF in Nov, and i only started accupunture with Dr Troy the same time I started the cycle. I stopped going to yoga since Sep, the crisis started, and may be all these are the reasons I have to look back and evaluate. So from now on, I will go for yoga and accupunture regulary to make my body stronger. I went to Dr Yip (as Troy is away) this morning, but they insisted I only need to go once a week if I am not doing IVF cycle. I wonder if you also did once a week during the natural cycle or preparation? I asked if I can do twice and they said no need.


Anyway, I hope everyone reading the thread and checking this site will get successful. I tried to relax sometimes, but whenever I think of the time limitation, I want to rush to do something.


I cant do part time for this job, as I need to be responsible for the overall running of the firm and the revenue to pay the staff and office cost. If not, we have to downsize our firm, which i dont want to. So it is hard for me. The firm has been running for 7 years already, I dont have financial problem, but the responsibilities to company and clients. If I take holiday during weekdays at home, I will check blackberry all the time to make sure the office is okay. This is also something I need to work out this year for my baby plan. You case is a proof to me that work does affect the baby plan as it is stressful and it happened when you work part time. I really need to prioritize my life.


Happy New Year !


lolo



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Havefaith 16 yrs ago
Lolo,


I understand what you are going thru. The financial crisis has made it very tough for everyone - esp those in the financial market. I am a lawyer - now in the financial sector.


I did one IVF cycle in May 2007 at the santorium - and when I woke up both me and DH were on the phone to the office and checking emails. The nurse turned to me and said "you guys work too hard". My reply was "I will try to get a part time job once I get pregnant". Her reply was - it might not happen until you are on part time. It took me about 6 months to get a part time job - it was necessary for me - I am not recommending part-time for everyone - please dont get me wrong. I had a regional role in my old job - I was travelling at least once a week and often did not know more than a couple of days ahead of time when and where I will be next. It made TTC even harder than necessary - esp when DH travels too. I was 39 last year - and I decided to give TTC my best shot - I figured I owed it to my DH and myself!


There was a difference between how many times I had to see Troy between a natural cycle and a IVF/IUI cycle. However, I dont think I was seeing him once a week. I think it was once/twice a week except the week of ovulation. It was 2 to 3 times a week during ovulation. I dont have much confidence in Dr. Yip. I used to skip the week(s) when Troy was not there.


Happy New Year and Babydust to you and DH!


HF

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honeypie 16 yrs ago
Hi Macaron, great to hear that you are coming, if you got time, please do call me so we can meet up with our kids.


Havefaith, that's a good move to have part time job, my 39 yrs old friend works til midnight, her earliest dinner is past midnight, i'm telling her to slow down to give TTC her best shot too, but she doesn't listen. Yes, she doesn't eat healthy foods, and tells me she has lots of vitamins, i lost count how many pills she pops in a day, too many.


Lolo, when i was trying naturally, i did acu once a week only with herbs. For those who wants cheaper and good acu too, i can recommend Troy's ex-assistant 2-3 years ago, he has his own clinic in central and charges $350 only. But clinic is not as fancy and classy as Troy, just the typical chinese clinic, he is good too as i got preggy after a month of seeing him.

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lolo32 16 yrs ago
hi honeypie,


Thank you for the information, i will talk with Dr Troy if he can do twice a week for me. I havent spoken to him for quite a while as he takes 2 weeks off. May I know the ex-assistant name and address? or phone number ? thanks


Hi Havefaith,


You are totally right. I am strugging to see how I can reduce my working time and work as less as possible. The comment from nurse is right too. That's why I always ask on this site if one requires bed rest after IUI or IVF transfer. Sometimes I think i didnt rest enough. I will try to take real days off from work even after IUI if I go for it. But some schedules ahead already and it is hard to predict the precise day to rest in advance. This is the hard part. And I may not be able to try IUI cycle until March as this cycle already started and seems doctors are busy as i cant see them until end of week which is almost my ovulation time. And Feb I will have holiday for 2 weeks with my hubby, which is over one year we havent had long holiday. So possible treatment cycle will be March. Hope something might happen naturally. Meanwhile I will try accupunture. I agree the best will be Dr Troy. I checked another doctor which I saw from this site, called Helen He, but she only works on Tues and Thurs so I cant have full cycle with her and she may not be able to work on those important days as she is part time.


Glad that there are success stories time by time and good news to share. I wish I can share my good news soon.



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Blitzing 16 yrs ago
I think the ex assistant other posters are referring to is Dr Sum at Health and Joy.

He has very good English, as does the receptionist/assistant.

The website is: www.health2joy.com

Phone number: 21110056


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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Happy New Year everyone!


Hi lolo and HF,

I am just really impressed that you guys have very tough jobs and still do your best for the TTC and encouraging everyone on the forum. It must be a lot of responsibility you are feeling and I know how hard it is to juggle different tasks when you only have one body and soul. I hope you will get good relaxation from Yoga and acu! Lolo, I don't know your back ground but I see how people have difficult time with Japanese business men as their communication method is somewhat different from people from other cultures. Do you have business entertainment as well? Just get them drunk very quickly and you keep on drinking Oolong tea or something, and try to get back to the hotel quickly so you can relax in your luxurious jugguzi bath! Anyway, you have a long needed holiday coming up soon. DO take advantage of the time with your husband during the holiday without kids!!! You may not believe me but once you have a child (I am sure you will one day), you will MISS the holiday you had only with your husband and actually "RELAX".


Hi Honepie! Good to see you on the forum again. THanks for the offer to meet up. Let's do that. I would be wonderful to introduce my kid and your kids and let them play. We have come a long way. ANd I need to get the tip for TTCing for the second. Do you think I can get acu from your Dr during my short stay in HK?

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honeypie 16 yrs ago
Thanks Blitzing,


That's the name of the ex-assistant i went to.

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
Hi Macaron Mania


I too live in tokyo and had IVF. And now i have a beautiful daughter. Now im at it again. I go to Tokyo University Hospital. My doctor on my first IVF which is responsible for my daughter now was Ohashi sansei, which is in Canada now doing further studies and Hirata sansei. Now im seing the director of the IVF department Dr. Fujimoto and also Dr. Hirata. I think they can help you.


Its funny coz your in tokyo running to hongkong to get treatment. while im moving to hongkong and planning to run to tokyo for treatments. Dr. Fujimoto's advice was to get the doctor in honkong to control my period thru medication and then make an appointment in tokyo hospital and fly before the period is due and stay for 2-3 weeks. Its not a problem to us coz our medical insurance doesnt cover fertility treatments. so ill be paying the same and its just the issue of where to stay since we never told our friends we are using IVF treatments and doesnt want to tell.

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Hi Mothercricket,

Thanks for your reply. It is such a coincidence that you are getting treatment in Tokyo and kind of ironic that you are flying back to Tokyo from Hong Kong. Maybe if it does not work out in HOng Kong and we cannot manage to fly to Hong Kong every month and be away from home for a few weeks each time, I will visit the doctors you recommended. If you don't mind me asking, what is your case and which medication did you use?


It seems, with my case, I have very bad side effects (mood swing, extreme tiredness) with the injections and medicine they give me here (clomid and Folistim), and that the follicles are not good quality (don't know if it is the medicine or me getting old). Anyway, last time in Hong Kong I used GonalF which seemed to have given me less bad side effets, and got pregnant quite quickly. Dr Ho monitored follicle growth more often than here, his explanation to any question was more consistent than the ones they give me here in Tokyo. So, I have less respect and trust in the dotors I have seen here.


Good luck with your treatment. Hope to see more update on this forum!!

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
Hi Macaron Mania,


Are you in Hongkong right now? Because if your not then maybe you can go to the doctors i have suggested and also you can go to

The National Center for Child Health and Development

2-10-1 Okura, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 157-8535 (opened March 2002) http://www.ncchd.go.jp/English/English.htm

The name of this hospital in Japanese is: "Kokoritsu Seiiku Iryou Center"


There you will be taken care of very well and they also speak english. Same is true for Tokyo University Hospital (Tokyo Daigaku Byoin).


Be warned it may be depressing to go to Seiiku Center because of numerous children that have serious problems who travel from all of the country. There they do Fertility treatments and take those who have high risk pregnancies.


Now about the culture, people whom you call sansei, they are authorities, like doctors, teachers, etc., you dont question them. And to ask a question is to doubt their, authority or knowledge, capabilities.. i dont know..but its kind of insulting..offensive. But some of them specially in Tokyo University Hospital at the IVF theyll ask if you have any questions and that is your chance. Otherwise, If youre going to ask for something, better start it with...Sansei can you suggest the best ____...or Sansei do you think i can____...or Sansei is it okay to ____... That way you are asking for their advice or expertise. And if something goes wrong its better to ask if you did something wrong instead of asking what went wrong. Thats their culture of respect and we just have to conform with it or sweet talk our way around it. They also like to be praised alot. According to the book it builds goodwill and youll notice they do it alot everywhere. And when praised your supposed to negate it, and look shy or coy.


I dont remember much of my medicines now but i do remember that i took clomid. I have been treated for years, and im happy to tell you that there is nothing wrong with me. Everything is perfectly fine and i have passed every test with flying colors. Unfortunately, I am one of those who has what they call unexplained infertility. our first IVF is a success, our second is not. My embryos are frozen and of excellent quality.


Also dont go to a maternity clinic. they are not properly equiped as hospitals are and when emergencies happen, its hard to get into a hospital. Also in a hospital its a team of doctors handling your case.


Can you give me your doctors names and contacts in Hongkong. Also the best hospital to handle high risk pregnancies. I still havent decided where to live in hongkong due to this hospital issue. My baby still has to get vaccinated. And I need to find where the best children's hospital is. Any suggestions??

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Hi mothercricket,


The doctor I saw last time was Dr. Philip Ho. There are many threads recommending him on the forum, so you can search. Thanks for all the info on Tokyo. It is comforting that there are some people who know trustworthy doctors here!


Do you mind asking how old you are? My case is unexplained as well and other than my age (42) they cannot tell me why I have difficulty getting pregnant. Dr. Ho told me that he would not prescribe Clomid for me because of my age. I dont think doctors in general normally are very careful when they comment on other doctor's treatment, so I wondered why doctors here just give Clomid to EVERYONE!!!!


Seriously, if you are in Hong Kong, do try to go see doctors there. People in Tokyo often travel abroad to get medical treatment be it cancer or brain tumor, and the general perception is that the level of medical treatment you get is higher elsewhere.

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
Hi Macaron Mania,


Ill tell you about my experience here. In the beginning we went to a Maternity Clinic near our place and for a year and half i think, they just made me monitor my body basal and check my follicles frequently which im very uncomfortable about. then they would advice me that the follicle is about to rupture and that i have three days to take the opporunity to get pregnant :). then they tried some tablets to regulate my period since i have a 32-35 day cycleto a 28 day cycle making it easy for them to predict when my eggs come out. then they said they couldnt do anything anymore and that maybe its my husband so we need to go to a specialist. He recommended an OB-GYN in kiba which is very famous and also comes out on t.v. giving advice etc. she speaks english and so does her receptionsit. But my friend said not to go there coz during her pregnancy she became anemic but they didnt give her any supplements instead like every doctor/hospital they will just advice you to eat a balanced meal. pregnancy supplements does not exist in japan. In the end she needed blood tranfusion in which she had 5 bottles. And i think there were some issues being a clinic, they could not get blood quick. Anyway we wanted a hospital so we asked him to give us a reccomendation to Tokyo University Hospital which he did. The only rationalization with that is because its a hospital it should be equipped and since it bears tokyo's name, it should be competent and comprehensive. There again i took years starting again from the very beggining ie the body basal noting for 3 months during which they were doing every tests on me. then the tablets for 3 months, then with the injections + AIH many many times coz if i break the 3 months consecutive, you have to start again on the first. I hope you follow. say AIH you need to do 3 times meaning 3 months, if you break it say on the 3rd month you traveled home. then when you come back you need to again do AIH 3 times which will waste your 3 months. Then again maybe its just me, They said i was too young for IVF since its to invasive. I was in my late twenties. Finally i told them i wanted IVF and still they tried to convince me not to, i told him i really wanted it since it has been years (4) and at 28 yrs old i got it, by insisting. And now im 30.


My IVF doctors are very caring, they explained each and every medicine, what they are and what they do, their dosage, and if if doesnt work what to do next, and how it will affect me and what should be the effect on the body. then the procedures, the risks, the options, the side effects for both me and the baby. the admission, the harvest, what they do with the eggs, the transplant, the freezing, the thawing and if IVF doesnt work this month theyll try another procedure and how long their going to freeze your embyos and the rate of success. and more...


Just so you'd know, i did the thermometer thing, the tablet thing, the injection thing, the AIH thing, the everyday injection thing, the patches with suppositories thing, and the nasal spray thing. if they got all mixed up, it is because they are too many thru the years.


And i do agree that lots of people travel abroad for treatment of cancer, since not alot of japanese gets cancer. Stomach cancer is the most common one which they can treat very well.


Also japan, should i say is a naturalist, like if your having something theyll suggest that you ride it out. Let your body do the healing for you, and if it doesnt then theyll give you some natural thing...herbal stuff(chinese)...to help your body improve its immune system...and if your reinforced body doesnt heal you then theyll give you the real medicine...western medicine...this is their protocol and lots of times we insist for proper medicines.

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Hi mothercricket,


Thank you very much for sharing your experience. You must have gone through a lot!! And now you have one beautiful daughter. Congratulations. Whenever I read about how many months and years of treatment people have gone through before pregnancy, I get inspiration. THanks!


It is very interesting that you say japan is a naturalist. I though the other way around...like my daughter's pediatrician always prescribe antibiotics for any cold symptoms. No herbal medicine. Just antibiotics. I am kind of worried about that attitude as she will not get chance to develop her immune system.


On the other hand, my AR specialist would give me medicine just to kick start my period when it is late while you can just wait for a natural cycle as long as it is not too late or I am not ovulating for a few months. Kelly (DrHo's assistant) told me they would not give pill to kick start period as it is better to wait for natural cycle. Where you choose to go natural and where you go ahead and take strong medicine is I suppose a difficult choice to make, requiring expertise and experience in the particular area.


I have a mixed feeling about flying to Hong Kong. It will be taxing to have to travel with a toddler and she will be out of school during my treatment. I won't have anyone to leave her in Hong Kong if my doctor visit shall take more than an hour (she won't sit still while I am being sedated for egg collection). So much to find out and organize...headache. BUT I suppose it will be all worthwhile if I ever get pregnant again.

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
Hi Macaron Mania,


is that so?? thats a little concerning coz i dont want to start all over again. My doctor started regulating my period when he couldnt count in his fingers when my ovulation is. its hard to predict since my period is irregular.


Another good thing about japan is that everybody gets the same treatment, may he be poor or rich. Even the emperor goes to Tokyo university hospital not to St. Lukes. My husband once went to St. Lukes and it was quite an experience. He said there are more attendees than patients. and when you enter they all line up and bow :) now isnt that interesting. Anybody who is sick should feel better already...:) ...hehehe...


I suggest you try it here in tokyo. Listen to their suggestions and if you have done it before and didnt work. Tell them about it and insist on the treatment that had worked for you. Just be a little patient, they usually start on small dosages, and gradually go up when it doesnt work.


Oh yes, before going to Tokyo Univ. Hosp. get a recommendation from where you are currently getting treatment now. with that you can get checked the same day, i think. otherwise if your a new patient, they schedule you 3 or 5 or 6 months later for a check-up!

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Don't worry. If your period is irregular to begin with, I am sure the doctor in Hong Kong will prescribe something. Mine is regular but just this month it is a bit late as I had IVF last month.

The thing is, I think this year is the last chance for me as I am 42 yrs old and being a bit impatient. Soon my window will be closed. Even if I shall be able to conceive, I don't have the energy to raise a child when I am much older like some other women are capable of doing. Unfortunately, I am not one of those super-women! It is interesting you should point out the fact that medical treatment here is relatively cheap and you get the same med, same treatment regardless of money you can spend. However, people who are really trying to recover from some serious illness have to import the medicines at very high price that are available overseas at reasonable cost, simply because they are not approved by the government. Medicines approval process is so slow here, and it seems the government is quite protective of domestic pharmaceuticals. For me, Gonal F worked the last time but in Japan, it is only available for men's infertility. How does that work? I don't know. Probably because some pharmaceutical still wants to get profit from the medicine they have now, or until their stock run out, new medicine will never find its way to this island.


How long did you normally have to wait at Tokyo hospital? Another thing that makes it difficult for me to visit doctors here with a toddler is that the waiting time is just too long even with appointment. I think I can fly to Hong Kong and come back while waiting at the hospitals here, haha. Anyway, please keep me updated with your treatment in Tokyo if you don't mind. It is nice to hear success stories wherever you are.

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
I think if you tell them about this GONAL F they will consider it just make sure to tell them about the previous medicines that didnt work. If you can bring the boxes/containers with the paper inside, that will be great. Because they may not be able to recognize the brand but surely theyll understand the formula.


I understand your dilema, we have experienced it. Everytime were abroad im always on the hunt for english or american medicines. I feel here some, not all, medicines doesnt work for my husband because hes bigger, i feel he always gets under dosage.


Hospital wait can be long, hmmm...usually i give myself 3 to 4 hrs, in and out. im also very impatient so id like to think at a particular time ive set, i should be done. Anyway in Tokyo Univ. Hosp. there's restaurants, cafe, barber, i think 7-11, and then theres a play room in the Funin gairai ( fertility ddepartment). On the other hand, National Children's Hospital (Seiiku Iryou) the hospital is a big playground. Very colorful and just endless curiosities for your toddler. Every department is designed interestingly, so i guess it doesnt matter where you sit, she'll find something bother with. The only thing is..its really far.


lets see how things turn out, ill let you know :)

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Thanks mothecricket. Both hospitals sound good except for the 4hour waiting time!!!!Bt I am sure the next visit to a doctor in Tokyo shall be TOkyo University.


By the way, are you aware of the law change in Hong Kong? That you need to get apprval before you get fertility treatment? You need a marriage certificate to apply for that or something. My question is, does that mean my husband has to be there in HK on my first visit to the doctor? It would be very inconvenient if that is true. My husband can only be there for a week and that should be around the time of my ovulation...

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago


Is that so...hmmm...proving the marriage is easy. if they start saying im again too young to get the treatment...huh!..speechless...I mean i cant nag at the doctor can I?Anyway, in your case It should not be a problem, if your going to your old doctor cause you already have a medical history there. Speaking of history, did you ask you hongkong doctors to give you a summary of treatment. That way you wont have to go all through all the testing and trial periods ie the clomid phase (totally unnecessary right?). They could just immediately treat you in they way your previous doctors did. So better you get busy on the phone calling them then having them send it over here. If its in chinese you can get it translated here in english or japanese.


Oh yes, when you go to Tokyo Univ. Hosp. bearing your reccomendation from your previous doctor (so you can get checked the same day) request for Dr. Fujimoto. go early in the morning before 9 preferably, at 11they dont accept any walk in patient.most likely theyll sneak you in at 2 pm or 2:45. Although theyll say theyll call you anytime. It will just frustrate you little ones. so get a taxi or go to marunouchi like and go to korakuen. its one station ahead of hongo san chome sta. where tokyo univ is. there you can go to the oldest park in tokyo just behind the theme  park/shopping arcade thats attached to the station. 


you can leave your envelope with the beeper to the information counter. and just comback before 2pm   

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
Thank you mothercricket. It is very good to know about hospitals and doctors in Tokyo. It does not seem like totally hospitals in Tokyo now that you explained to me. I will try to see Dr. Ho when I can, and if that does not suite my plan then I will look into TOkyo University. Good luck again with your TTC!

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
what is TTC?

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macaron mania 16 yrs ago
trying to conceive!

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mothercricket 16 yrs ago
Thanks!


Best of luck to you too and dont stress about it. that was one factor my doctor said that prevents me from concieving.



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