Posted by
OffThePeak
12 yrs ago
HK's 2nd Metropolis, coming in NW-NT
MAP, Possible location : http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/27/bq19.jpg
There's a very interesting article on the INSIGHT page of today's SCMP. It talks about the possibility of turning the "underused lands of Hong Kong's northwest into a second metropolis."
Amongst the advantages are the easy access to Transport, and especially: the airport, the rail network with links into Shenzhen and China, and to the Bridge to Macau and Zhuhai.
In this area, you can find: "abundant agricultural land... now fallow, which has huge development potential."
(The article was written by Ling Wai-ming, a chartered mechanical engineer, and director of the think tank, SD Associates.)
Lantau Map : http://tinyurl.com/NWNTmap
MTR Routes : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Hong_Kong_Railway_Route_Map_en.svg
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Is NW- NT, Hong Kong's "Vacant Quadrant"?
If so, the ideal infrastructure can be built more cheaply, before the people are brought in to inhabit it. (That's been part of the success of West Kowloon.)
EXCERPT:
"Central has been our most important core business district, the heart of our metropolis. It has been developing fast with land reclaimed from the harbour and with more and more people crammed into the district. Land scarcity has now driven land costs to amongst the highest in the world, and moving around the district is tiresome and disheartening." (OTP note: Think of Mid-Levels.)
NW-NT is "the ideal place for developing HK's second metropolis... Rail corridors will fulfill the third vital prerequiste for the vision - efficient transport infrastructure for a new development area that can house and provide new jobs for a large population."
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Would it be popular?
Yes, if well-designed, believes Ling Wai-ming
"Sustainability must be a key consideration in planning of this second metropolis. Economic vitality and community health aside, we must carefully preserve the area's cultural heritage.
"The northwest of Hong Kong has the unique advantges of abundant land and the proximity to Shenzhen. Now, with efficient transport infrastructure on the horizon, it is destined to become a metropolis, and a launch pad for Hong Kong's sustainable growth."
=== ===
I think HK has learned something from the development of Tung Chung and Lohas Park. These are areas are becoming successful, and that success can be improved upon. Key success factors have been: walkable neighborhoods, and mixed use. I think that a mixture of High rises, mid-rises, houses, and parks can be done. But with the overall idea of minimizing the need for automobiles.
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Central is already just a 25 minute train ride to the airport and a 45 minute ferry ride to Macau. And soon west Kowloon will be just 20 or 30 minutes away from sz and 48 minutes away from gz. Not sure how much closer you want to be. And anyways, isn't the idea to be further away from sz rather than closer?
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Point to point, those times are right.
But if you want to go from, say, Cyberport to Macau or China, its a long, long journey.
Someone with a growing China-related business may appreciated shorter times, better access. And with lower land values, it will be cheaper to build something new and wonderful.
Would this be a threat to appreciation of property values in someplace like Mid-Levels? Absolutely. But it might be preferable to build new in NW-NT rather than imposing some new price-slowing taxes.
BTW, has anyonw heard of "Ling Wai-ming" or "the think tank, SD Associates" before?
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From Cyberport you can get to the Macau ferry terminal within ten minutes via the waterfront highway. And once the new station in west Kowloon is ready you will be able to get there in ten minutes via the western tunnel. I think you would have much better access to china and the city centre of hk being closer to the new station, and Cyberport is actually pretty strategically located with the western tunnel. People want access to china, yes, but not at the expense of being close to hk's city centre.
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Not likely.
I have stood at Cyberport, and waited for the bus. It takes longer than that.
Or consider a remote part of North Point, Southside, the Peak, Aberdeen, or some other location on HK Island which is not walking distance for the MTR.
If you are going to make regular journeys in HK, you need to use something longer than average times door-to-door. Not what you can do on the best days, at the best moments. This is why the MTR is so valuable. It makes for reliable and quick journeys with predictable timeframes. A business or a responsible employee can rely upon it.
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Meanwhile, back on planet earth, investors are buying property in good school networks and where there is a lot of social life. Mid-levels, Tin Hau and Tai Hang are my top picks. I have sold all my NT properties. Don't forget CY Leung is going to pour a lot of concrete in the NT - especially around Fanling - which is more to the east - and Tung Chung.
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Don't forget hospitals, LGMV. Everyone needs those.
Tung Chung District Hospital
Photo : http://www.flickr.com/photos/hk_grasses_id/6972605867/
Should be finished soon.
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I was talking about taking a cab or driving. But there are new mtr lines being built which will connect Kennedy town, Aberdeen and the south side to the future west Kowloon station. North point is already well connected. If someone wants to be so close to sz that they would consider staying in hong kong's northwest, why not just live in sz itself? As long as you can get to that future west Kowloon station quickly which will be connected to chinas high speed rail network, you will be able to get to any important Chinese city in no time.
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"There are 235 outlying islands, Lantau Island being the largest."
LANTAU may be the centre, or at least a key part, of the Second Megacity.
In today's Standard, there's a photo of CYL looking out across the Lantau landscape, with the caption:
"CY Leung says Tung Chung has plenty of potential for development."
The article itself is entitled:
"Leung lays blame for homes crisis on poor planning."
He was speaking to 100 residents in Tung Chung, and was inspired by the transport links, in particular the "mega bridge linking HK, Zhuhai, and Macau."
"No people living in the streets does not mean that there is no housing crisis to solve....." and he added later on: "We should no longer lose our opportunity to pursue development," while stressing the need for a restructuring of HK government posts to speed up the approval and development process.
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More Detail in today's SCMP
'Metropolis' urged for Lantau
Tony Cheung .. May 7, 2012
EXCERPTS
The alliance was formed last year by nine businesses on Lantau, ranging from Hong Kong Disneyland, the Ngong Ping 360 cable car and AsiaWorld-Expo to the Heritage Conservation Foundation, which turned the 110-year-old Tai O police station into a boutique hotel.
A 17-strong delegation paid a field visit last week to key development zones in the Pearl River Delta: Qianhai , Nansha and Hengqin . [b]The Hong Kong government is consulting the public on the possibility of a railway linking Qianhai with Hong Kong airport[/b], while Hengqin is within an hour's travelling time of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge, which will link Zhuhai with Lantau when completed in 2016. Li Yan-tai, the alliance's honorary secretary and leader of the delegation, said its members were impressed by the ambitious plans of the governments in the places they visited.
"Integration [in the Pearl River Delta] is inevitable," Li said. "The question is how will Hong Kong play a part? Hong Kong has to integrate [with neighbouring cities]. Otherwise, we will only see economic activity shifting northward."
Li said the alliance believed that Lantau - as home to the [b]world's third-busiest international passenger airport [/b]and the landing point of the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge - had the potential to become [b]a new "metropolis", a commercial-tourism hub[/b] in the Pearl River Delta and the powerhouse of Hong Kong's future development.
. . .
Li said the alliance's top priorities included setting up a cross-departmental Lantau Authority, on which tourism, transport and lands officials would sit together to make decisions about the vision and master plan for Lantau in Hong Kong's future.
He said Leung had promised such an authority when they met earlier this year and pledged to "rearrange" the functions of New Territories West and Lantau "to improve our competitive edge" in his election manifesto.
The alliance will also propose upgrading facilities around the airport to create more business, such as turning the golf course next to AsiaWorld-Expo into a commercial complex with malls, offices and flats.
/more: http://topics.scmp.com/news/hk-news-watch/article/Metropolis-urged-for-Lantau
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CYL's Urgent Plans for Lantau may "steamroll" the Old guard conservationists for Five Years ago
LANTAU DISAPPEARING under development wave
Jonathan Cheng .. August 21, 2006
When Ian Robertson moved to Lantau Island from the bustling city center 13 years ago, part of the reason, he says, was a need to escape a "mental disaster."
But now Robertson, 64, is appalled by the transformation he has witnessed on once-quiet Lantau: apartment blocks in ancient valleys, a giant airport on an islet that used to teem with wildlife and, yes, Disneyland.
In a few years, Robertson plans to retire and go elsewhere.
"There's been too much countryside destroyed for me to stay," says the New Zealand native who has lived in Hong Kong since 1973.
Robertson's decision is just one example of how some citizens are reacting to what they call the destruction of one of the territory's last wild frontiers.
[b]For more than a century, Lantau has played a vital role in the development of a bustling megalopolis: as the anti- Hong Kong[/b]. While Hong Kong Island and Kowloon disappeared under thickets of skyscrapers and an inglorious network of highway flyovers and tunnels, neighboring Lantau to the west remained rugged, mysterious and untamed.
Boy scouts camped there. Burnt-out executives dropped out and retreated there. Buddhist monks lived off the land. But now, all of that is beginning to change, and Lantau's defenders are up in arms.
"We are running out of wild places in Hong Kong, and we need them," says a livid Clive Noffke, who used to work for the government as a land surveyor. Over the past 15 years, he says he has watched Lantau's development begin as a quiet trickle, then burst into a free-for-all.
/more: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=25485&sid=9384944&con_type=1
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The impact will be mixed.
More construction will increase supply. Meanwhile, more jobs closer to Tung Chung should help to underpin rents and property prices.
Walking distance, or easy commuting to the better paying jobs will be a key success factor.
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I just don't understand how being physically near the airport and the HK-Zhuhai-Macau bridge is going to attract people to this metropolis. You can get to the airport in 24 minutes by train from Central station. Even less from Kowloon station. Macau is only about an hour away by boat from the ferry terminal. West Kowloon will be connected to China's high speed rail network by 2016. What exactly will this new metropolis in Lantau have to offer? If it's just cheaper flats then how is that different to the rest of the NT?
C.Y. Leung might be able to impact the number of mainlanders giving birth in Hong Kong, but creating a new metropolis? Please...
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@ Underdawg - perhaps CY Leung intends to attract more people from the mainland.....
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"I just don't understand how being physically near the airport and the HK-Zhuhai-Macau bridge is going to attract people to this metropolis."
Living in Green parts of South Lantau, and having quicker access to good jobs may be a big benefit for homeowners there. They can still take a ferry into Central when they need to.
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OTP, i can understand people being attracted to the green parts of south Lantau, but again, how is that different from anywhere else in the NT? And how would it be quicker access to jobs?
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If there are many more jobs in Tung Chung, or at the airport,
they can just take a bus across the island, on the new faster route
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OPINION section in today's SCMP
Lantau Opportunity cannot be missed
"Lantau... stands out as an option. The island is home to one of the busiest airports and first-class tourism and convention facilities such as the Disney theme park and AsiaWorld-Expo. More economic benefits are expected when the bridge spanning the delta is completed - due by 2016. Additionally, consultation on a railway linking the airport with Qianhai is underway. The infrastructure projects have opened the way for more development opportunities.
Instead of greating the Qianhai project as a threat, a better approach may be to capture the opportunities that may arise... Better co-ordination with our neighboring cities could be a win-win."
"Key business players on Lantau also see the potential benefits. They have formed an alliance to push the government for more efforts on this front, including an authority to turn Lantau into a new metropolis."
"The idea is expected to arouse deep concerns among nature lovers and eco-warriors. The reason Lantau is so appealing is because a large part remains unspoilt. Many find it truly a sanctuary, with pristine beaches and breathtaking mountain scenery. Any further inroads into our cherished backyard should be thought through."
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(Most of this was first posted elsewhere):
Most cities have a Maximum value point, (and sometimes two), from which as you move away values decline in an almost predictable fashion.
+ In HK, it is Central.
+ In London, it is Harrods.
+ In NYC, it is the Plaza Hotel
Naturally, this is an over-simplification of reality. But if you want to think about prices: Location, Location, location is the place to start. And the Maximum Price Point location is something to look for.
You will not be surprised to here that I think that Center point is slowing moving away from (once the Hong Kong Club or the Mandarin Hotel, and recently the IFC), towards the ICC in Kowloon. This slow move will accelerate as they complete the Express Train to China, and the West Kowloon Cultural district. More office blocks and more high-paying jobs in Kowloon would accelerate it further.
If you watch the relative values of Mid-Levels versus West Kowloon, you will see some movement in the direct that my model predicts. In 10, 20 or 30 years, Mid-rons may wake-up and discover that Mid-Levels has become a bit of a backwater, although perhaps a very comfortable one.
=== ===
(Adding this part)
The creation of a successful Second Metropolis in Tung Chung near the airport, and with excellent transport ties, would help to move the center of the Pearl River Delta towards Tung Chung.
They may need to find a new name for it, since that is hardly a name to conjure with.
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OTP, I have to disagree with you. West Kowloon, just maybe may start to become a real CBD when the train station is fully functional. But even then, I still don't think it will take center point status away from central. Tung Chung does not have a chance. How is a bridge to zhuhai and Macau, and link to qianhai going to bring that many jobs to the area to make it the new metropolis? Even throw in the third runway at the airport and an expansion at disneyland and its still a far cry from CBD status. Look if you're talking about a Mickey mouse metropolis then maybe. But how is this bridge going to compete with the express train? How long will it take to drive to zhuhai and Macau, and how exactly is this going to make tung Chung the new metropolis? I would like to know details. Are you talking about all the construction worker jobs that will be created for the runway? What exactly are these new jobs? Going back to west Kowloon, I have a couple of friends who work at deutsche bank which is one of the companies that has moved its offices to icc. Their opinion is that there is still a long way to go to compete with central. No where near as many choices for lunch. Hard even to find an ATM and no post office nearby! Look west Kowloon is definitely a contender, but tung Chung? No doubt the area is developing nicely, and will continue to improve. But center point status is not in the plans.
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Give it time, it may take a long time, and you may see movement towards a Dual focus.
The combination of the Express Train, and the New West Kowloon Culture center will be a powerful magnet, drawing interest away from HK Island.
Kowloon Central need more than the Island it is now to support its growth as a residential destination. At least some of the action is in TKT. And an interesting "fringe" will grow outside Elements. But the final success will require an effective integration with the Rail and WKCD
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OTP. I think you are probably right however I just don't understand the West Kowloon Cultural District. Who is going to use it? No one will pay more than the price of a cinema ticket for anything.
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Instead I see areas like Sheung Wan, Sai Ying Pun & Kennedy Town developing more with the emergence of the express train. With the western tunnel, all of a sudden these areas are just ten minutes away from West Kowloon and five minutes away from Central.
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LGMV, your:
"I just don't understand the West Kowloon Cultural District. Who is going to use it?"
Well, we won't really know until it exists. Culture is more than films, Lloyd. Have you never wandered through the Metropolitan Museum (NYC), or the V&A (London)? Doing that, can open up your mind about what is art, or even more broadly: about how we all might live better. The point of WKCD is to offer that sort of "uplifting experience" in Hong Kong. Not only for tourists, but for local people too.
In some funny way, it may raise the profile of artists enough, to give some HK parents the idea that something other than banking and accountancy are suitable professions for their children.
I reckon that within 3-5 years after the launch of the museum, you will start to see something other than those horrible wedding photos on the walls of HK flats.
== ==
"With the western tunnel, all of a sudden these areas are just ten minutes away from West Kowloon and five minutes away from Central."
By car, bus, or taxi - I think you mean.
The cost of commuting that way - and especially by private car - is bound to rise rapidly, as we head into the period after Peak Oil. Even with that, HK's cultural heritage at WKCD, if they can create one, will still be accessible.
=== ===
If I was one of those trying to make WKCD a success, I would try a different concept. I would try and find sufficient donations that I could offer chelloist Yo-Yo Ma a "teaching and cultural leadership" role in HK for 2 or 3 years.
(I have met Mr Ma, and spoken with him at length, and think he might take it if the challenge was presented in the appropriate way.)
Yo-yo is an excellent teacher, and his presence in HK working inside a suitable institution would convince the world that HK is serious about raising the level of its culture.
The painters and dancers can come later. Make the right music, and they will come too.
While they are awaiting the development of the high-priced real estate, the WKCD authorities should encourage development of "cultural software" (ie the artists and musicians) in less expensive and more widely dispersed facilities.
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If the cost of commuting by car, bus or taxi is going to rise so rapidly, then what use is that hk-zhuhai-Macau bridge? Ok, west Kowloon may be one of the main cbd's of hk but I just don't see tung Chung being one, ever. With the express train there will be no need to be physically near the border. In 48 minutes you will be in the shibi station of panyu, Guangzhou. From there you are connected to anywhere in china that is accessible thru the train network. Getting to Shenzhen and dongguan will take something like 20 and 30 minutes respectively. If anything, I guess this tkt area will be a good location too.
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I understand that The bridge is mainly for lorries (trucks). Does it really make sense to have loads of Chinese cars flooding into HK - Where will they park?
I don't think those who planned it and financed it are as concerned about Peak Oil as I am.
But it will allow companies to set up Pearl River businesses and Headquarter them in the Tung Ching area. It will be interesting to see if and when new office rises begin to be put up in the area, and where exactly. If there are high paying jobs, it will help drive the residential development
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If you want to be successful in Property and in Life, then think about how you would live better WITHOUT a car.
I am from Detroit, and know how hugely a "happy motoring" environment detroys the livability of a city. In my lifetime, the population of Detroit has fallen from about 2 million to near 700,000. Removing the streetcars, and Blighting the landscape with highways was a big part of the reason. (I left the Motor City just as soon as I was able to.)
Anything that makes it easier to live well without a car will tend to improve property values, and that is BEFORE the inevitable rise to $400 (and higher) oil prices begins.
Electric cars are a "wax banana" (not the real thing), because they will require massive use of energy to build the car and to re-charge the battery. Just because you cannot see the power station does not mean it does not exist.
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If you want to understand how to create Property value thru DESIGN rather than simply location, the following Podcast will provide some good food for thought:
Andrew Burleson presentation at NextGen9
MP3 : http://www.strongtowns.org/storage/podcasts/051112_Burleson_NextGen9.mp3
Andrew Burlseon discusses the finance of our places and a new way to communicate important truths about streets, interfaces and capturing value.
Amongst other things, his talk will help you realise the awesome stupidity of Houston's Town Planners. For their "sins" they deserve to be condemned to a lifetime of traffic jams, which is exactly what they are getting, whilst dragging the rest of the community, kicking and screaming, with them.
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After doing some further research on West Kowloon, I've come to realize that it has actually been a very badly designed project. In order to become a Central Business District, the area must have sufficient office space. This is not the case with West Kowloon. Right now, if a company wants to move their offices to West Kowloon, they have a grand total of one choice: ICC. In order to compete with Central, they need at least several more ICC's. From my understanding, this is not in the plans. So even with the WKCD and the express train attracting businesses to the area, there isn't enough space for the companies who actually want to move their offices to the area. And even if they wanted to build more commercial buildings around ICC, they can't. It's surrounded by residential buildings because that's where the developers make more money. The developers profits were put in front of good government planning, and now it looks like West Kowloon cannot take Central over as the new CBD. At best it can be a smaller, secondary CBD. There was an article in Tuesday's Property Post about Kowloon East being CBD2. I don't know too much about Kowloon East, but I know that it is not very well connected with the rest of Hong Kong. There is, however, a lot of office space. And possibly a lot more will be available with the old Kai Tak airport space. So all of a sudden, I can understand C.Y. Leung's vision of North Lantau being really the only option left for a new CBD in Hong Kong. So in the very long term, yes, North Lantau could be an option. But West Kowloon does not have the capacity. And in the short and medium term, and maybe even long term, there's nothing like Central. I'm not sure where Kowloon east fits into the picture.
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I understand that there are two new office Towers planned for the Kowloon Station area.
Eventually, SHKP will tear down New Kowloon Centre at Olympic, and replace it with something better, but I havent yet heard of any specific development plans, and there is room for other offices in TKT
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Some details of the government plans are leaking out:
+ There is talk of boosting Tung Chung's population from 130,000 to 230,000 with most of that 100,000 increase being satisfied by new public housing
+ Three sites have identifies for development
+ Current local owners in Caribbean Coast, etc. are against putting public housing in Area 56, and there are also complaints that it may be "too far away" from TC's town centre
The above items mostly come from a report in today's SCMP.
Separately, I have heard that residents in Ya Tong estate are trying to pressure the government to extend the MTR so it goes to Ya Tong estate. (If it happens, it should help push up property values in that estate.)
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Hilarious. CY Leung is going to pour concrete in Tung Cung and Fanling but no one will buy there as it will be inconvenient and a loss of face. No one on HK side will willingly move to Heung Yee Kyk land - especially if they want to start a family. Schools not good enough.
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Believe me. I have family who have turned down government flats in Tuen Mun.
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There will be people buying in Tung Chung & Fanling.
"If 1 person doesn't like it, doesnt mean the rest of the 1 million don't like it."
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LGMV has a strong attachment to Mid-Levels and expects everyone else to share it.
I had lunch last week with two old friends who sat with me on the Owners commitment when I lived in TC. They both like living there, and children and grandchildren like it too. The properties they own will have returned the same percentage or higher than Midlevels. They will be amongst those opposing Public housing in area 56. But a good quality private building will likely be acceptable.
The key to continuing development of TC may be some jobs. And I think developing some more Office blocks there for HK businesses to serve the Pearl River Delta would make good sense for the HK Govt., and good sense for the local community. I also hope they can retain some of the unspoiled nature of South Lantau, but I would not put a huge bet on it.
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(An interesting comment by LGMV, which I thought I should post here too):
"not as convenient as originally thought (cf frequency on Tung Chung Line)"
Interesting comment. Frequency on the Tung Chung line will increase in the future as traffic grows - that seems likely as the population in TC grows, and the Line extends
+more: http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/hong-kong-property/threads/146074/cy-leungs-impact-on-hk-property/
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When the Tung Chung Line merges with the Island Line in the MTR's North Island project, things will certainly move. CY Leung may speed this up.
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Tung Chung 'Park' is on the way
An article in last Wed's HK Standard was loaded with interesting detail:
+ 285 hectares will be created in the new town, with 175 h's from Western TC, and the rest reclaimed from TC Bay
+110 hectares will be on the waterfront, for a theme park
+ TC's Population is planned to rise from the current 70,000 to 220,000
+ 53,800 new residential units are planned, with 57% private, the rest public
+ Maximum building height will not exceed 35 stories
Other areas, like Kwu Tung North (between Sheung Shui and Lok Ma Chau), Fan Ling North and Ping Che/ Ta Kwu Ling are meant to be expanded
The Govt expects to spend HK$40 billion on land acquisition
/ http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=30&art_id=123602&sid=36776058&con_type=3&d_str=20120620
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They buy the land (thru compulsory acquisition) and then resell most of it at a higher price.
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Much of the land is government owned.
But a portion is privately own - Hence the compulsory buying
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CONCRETE PLANS - Cover from this week's HK Magazine
===========
"Construction projects in the New Territories just keep piling up"
Okay, it's NE-NT, not NW-NT
But it is the sort of boom in construction that this thread was started to talk about.
"The government's little-publicized plans for developing the northeastern New Territories are much bigger than it would have you believe - under current plans, huge tracts of green land will be turned into concrete. / by Grace Tsoi
+ About 54,000 homes will be built, and 40 percent of the flats set aside for public housing (They do not want to go above 50 pct., to avoid a repeat of the disastrous Tin Shui Wai, and its excessive public housing, and noxious monopolies.)
+ Part of the rationale for this is "increasing population". But the govt has shown that they chronically overestimate population growth. They had estimated 7.53 million people by 2011, and instead got 7.14 million.
+ Loss of Farmland: 22 hectares of land under cultivation will be effected by planned developments, says the govt. Other groups say it is 98 hectares, but this second figure includes land no longer farmed, which could be reclaimed for this purpose. Groups like the Mapopo Community Farm are fighting this.
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AREAS Effected by NE-NT development plans
====
1. Kwu Tong, Fanling North, Ping Che NDA's : 533 hectares
2. Hung Sui Kiu NDA : 790 h's
3. Lok Ma Chau Loop : 87 h's
4. Liangtang/Heung Yuen Wai Boundary control point
5. Frontier Closed Area (FCA), 740 h's of 2,400 hectares
6. Southern Yuen Long : about 200 h's
7. Sha Lo Tung : 4 h's
8. Nam Shen Wai : 121 h's
9. Fung Lok Wai : 4.1 h's
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TUNG CHUNG: A New Shopping Hub for Mainlanders ?
Some think that Causeway Bay and TST are too crowded,
and want a new place for Mainlanders to shop for "everyday products"
Not all agree, since others do not existing luxury shopping hubs to lose business
ARTICLE:
Lantau group looks to court mainland China tourists
A business alliance's proposal to develop Lantau Island into a commercial zone to divert tourists from overcrowded districts has sparked heated debate.
The plan by the Lantau Economic Development Alliance - which comprises 10 Lantau-based companies and community groups such as Disneyland, AsiaWorld-Expo and Ngong Ping 360 - has been met with scepticism from district councillors who challenge its feasibility.
The alliance's vice-chairman, Andrew Kam Min-ho, yesterday said the Hong Kong-ZhuhaiMacau bridge's expected completion in 2016 was an opportunity to divert mainland tourists from the busy Causeway Bay and Tsim Sha Tsui areas to Lantau Island.
. . .
"It's all about the reputation of the district," he said. "Mainland tourists like to tell their friends that they went shopping in Tsim Sha Tsui's Canton Road and not in Tung Chung. It takes time for a district to develop its reputation."
Chan also said tourists would not go all the way to Tung Chung to shop for daily items when they could do so in places that were more accessible, such as in Sha Tin or Sheung Shui.
=====
+continues:
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1187800/lantau-group-looks-court-mainland-china-tourists
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The idea of having a new CBD on/near Lantau has been revived
- once again at the time of the CE's speech.
+ If you read the article in the HK Standard:
"Lantau set for sea change," you will find:
"East Lantau will become a new business district, after Central and Kowloon East."
There's talk of "new studies" but not much detail:
+ The may want to landfill the Eastern areas, off the island, near Sunny Bay
+ There's also talk of "leisure facilities" at Sunny Bay
+ There could be 1,400 - 2,400 hectares of land on the artificial island, (and there would be little impact on Chinese White Dolphins)
+ The new artificial island would be a lot like the one being built next to the airport for Border Crossing facilities
+ The authority wants to invite expressions of interest in building a 1,000 room Hotel
Paul Chan will lead an advisory committee.
Article with Video (from the govt):
http://www.news.gov.hk/en/categories/infrastructure/html/2014/01/20140115_132332.shtml?pickList=topstories
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The SCMP has more detail.
Including a map :
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/27/bq19.jpg
"...over the next 50 years, with the govt looking at reclaiming more than 1,000 hectares of land."
EXCERPT
...the new metropolis would be similar in size to the city's airport island.
A real estate adviser said it could house outlet malls.
The sources made clear the scale of the plan after Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying unveiled the idea in his speech. He said: "It will become a core business district in addition to Central and Kowloon East for promoting economic development and providing job opportunities."
A government source said the new metropolis would be in a strategic location, and able to be connected by bridges or tunnels with Western District on Hong Kong Island, Lantau Island and parts of the western New Territories such as Tuen Mun.
The source said the Development Bureau would start a feasibility study by June, to be completed by 2017.
To prepare an economic and social development strategy for Lantau, Leung said he would establish a Lantau Development Advisory Committee.
The committee will also seek advice on ways to revive the Lantau development plan, drafted in 2007. Steered by Secretary for Development Paul Chan Mo-po, it will include representatives from the commercial and recreational sectors, planning and architectural fields, district councillors and lawmakers.
Leung said Lantau would become an essential connecting point for journeys to and from Hong Kong, Zhuhai and Macau when the 55-kilometre Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge opens in 2016 and the nine-kilometre Tuen Mun-Chek Lap Kok link opens two years later.
"[Lantau] will link Hong Kong Island, Kowloon, the New Territories and the western Pearl River Delta, and become the converging point of traffic from Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macau," he said. "This will bring fundamental change to [its] functions and development potential."
> http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1406451/new-east-lantau-metropolis-set-become-core-business-area
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This East Lantau thing has got to be one of, if not the most, idiotic things I've ever heard.
What is it about HK culture that makes them like to say such outlandish and absurd things such as filling in the sea so that we can build American styled outlet malls? I don't understand this culture, does someone have some insight into this?
There is empty vacant land all around HK. The New Territories itself is generally just a giant barren piece of unoccupied land begging to be developed. And yet the HKers delude themselves into thinking we must build "East Lantau" out in the middle of the ocean and fill it in with hotels and outlet malls?
Any insight into this, anyone?
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I do agree with the govt that South Lantau should be left alone, not developed.
In a pinch, some food can be growth there.
Why not reclaim land from the sea, if it can be done profitably?
What do you have against Malls?
There's plenty of land devoted to parks, if you like walking quietly.
At least HK Malls are close to the people who use them and/or tied in to transport.
My opinion (along with JH Kunstler) is that a strip mall surrounded by parking, as you see in America is the worst possible use of land, and is also incredibly ugly. Anyone who builds them deserves to lose money.
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I think it has to do with land ownership. If the government reclaims the sea, it can then sell (lease) the land for a gazillion, because of the sea view.
Much of the land in NT (I don't know how much) belongs to villagers, who have been quietly selling some of it to developers. Now it belongs to developers, and not the government, so if the government let developers build on that land, it will receive nibby, nada, nix, zero. Since income from land sales is much of the government's income, it doesn't want to let developers build in NT. Simple.
Actually the government could impose a "development tax" of gazillions for land that the developers own in NT. For some reason it doesn't want to do it. Maybe something to do with the constitution (i.e. it is not allowed to do so)?
Anther thing is that by allowing developers to build in only a very small area, the government can sell each sq. m. of land for astronomic amounts. If the city is spread out the price of each sq. m. will drop drastically, and total income will drop.
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Actually, Riccardo, that is not completely true.
To upgrade farmland to a high Plot ration suitable for building high-rises will require re-zoning, and payment of a premium, if I am not mistaken.
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I don't understand the whole NT / villagers / Heung Yee Kuk nonsense but my limited understanding is that the government owns all land in HK (except for one church plot in Central) and that the NT village males have the right to construct one village house... but they don't own the land itself. And the government claims it cannot build in NT because the villagers will riot or whatever.
The East Lantau Island concept is insane and I hope it is just the government throwing out an outlandish idea to "prove" to the people that the land situation is as dire as they claim it to be.
Pull up Google Maps Satellite view and look at Lantau - big empty island. Yes the center is a mountain but 1) HKers already build all over mountains and 2) the coastline is not a mountain. The entire western side of Lantau is prime real estate that could easily be land-filled in to add an extra 500 meters of width to the island. West Lantau already has a MTR line, a giant highway, bridges to Tsing Yi / Tsuen Wan / Tuen Men / Macau / Zhuhai and has close access to the airport - this is prime real estate land. All the government needs to do is landfill in 500 meters of additional land along the West Lantau coast and fill it in with more Caribbean Coasts. Bam, entire city's "property shortage" is solved.
Landfilling in West Lantau coastline is basically exactly what they did ages ago with HK Island (back when QRC was the coastline). Furthermore this is a lot environmentally obtrusive than is creating a giant island in the middle of the sea and then connecting it with tunnels, bridges, more MTR lines etc.
Edit: for clarity, I am talking about the western side of north lantau (between airport and Tsing Yi along the highway)
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Yes, I believe that the government owns all the land (except that church), but people can "lease" it for a bunch of years (currently until 2047), and that's what the developers have done. They bought the land from the villagers, and now lease it until 2047. In 2047 the gov. can take it back, but the developers hope it won't.
Yes, of course land is zoned, and requires rezoning. But the government doesn't usually ask for billions to rezone land. I might be wrong (I usually am). Can somebody correct me? How much does the government usually charge to rezone land?
Note that past practices don't mean it will continue this way. The gov. could indeed ask for billions to rezone NT land, so I wonder why it doesn't do it. Is it somehow prevented from doing this by some "basic law"? Or simply it wants to continue with that imaginary "land scarcity" fairytale?
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My understanding is that the villagers are strictly confined to building a village house with very specific dimensions, which is why they look identical all across HK. If villagers / developers want to develop anything other than that village house then they must pay the land premiums the HK government charges anywhere else in HK, which is to say, billions of dollars.
But this is just my understanding and it might be wrong.
Edit:
The above is also why you don't see frequent redevelopment of low-rise hellhole buildings in prime locations. Sheung Wan has plenty of those lowrise buildings clustered together that easily could be turned into giant housing estates to house 20x people, but it does not happen because the government makes it prohibitively expensive to do so. In a proper free market country a small-time developer could purchase one or two small old buildings, bulldoze them, and re-build a much larger modern structure. But in HK if you want to bulldoze and rebuild on the land then you must pay an enormous land premium to the government, thus making it effectively impossible to do for all but the oligopoly developers.
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'The gov. could indeed ask for billions to rezone NT land, so I wonder why it doesn't do it. Is it somehow prevented from doing this by some "basic law"? Or simply it wants to continue with that imaginary "land scarcity" fairytale?'
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the developers just spin it and say if the government increases rezoing taxes, then the price of the new buildings will then increase and make it unaffordable for the people of Hong Kong?
And if they do go ahead and increase the tax, I am sure they will pass the costs on to the end user.
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