Posted by
FluteTang
15 yrs ago
Two of us, currently rented an apartment at North Point (Cloud View Road, 800 square feel, 22000 per month), are considering to move to Tung Chung.
The major reason is the need of more air and somewhat warmer winter. Any suggestions?
Is the smell of pollution still bothering? Are flights noisy?
Is the humidity an issue? Our North Point apartment is very good and convenient, yet with a thin wall (10 cm), it is poor in fighting with the humidity and the north wind. During the past two months, moulds on the wall are everywhere, we had no other choice but moving. THANKS.
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i have to say i am surprised about your situation in cloud view road. i lived down on the harbour front and never had any mould issues or cold weather.
i don't think tong chong is any better or worse on that aspect. the pollution might be an issue though.
i now live in park island and it's a great option (better than tong chong in my view)
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I think Tung Chung is the most polluted place in HK. Nothing you can do about humidity between now and May apart from buying a dehumidifier and leaving it on. I've been here 16 years and have never bought one - though I always vow to do so each year. Most people in HK would consider you mad for choosing Tung Chung over North Point.
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Thanks and YEAH ... everybody thinks I am mad to choose TC over North Point. I think it's not the fault of this area, but this apartment. A GOOD one in all aspects, but our unit is facing north directly since we are "at the edge" and the wall is extraordinarily thin. Every time we come back from outside, the humidity problem is obviously more obvious in this building than many of my friends' house in this same area.
We are considering TC because of our love in biking and open air.
Looking forward to more discussion ~~ thanks.
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Flut. In about 2 weeks, Winter will be a distant prospect again. I beg you not to go to Tung Chung. You will ruin your social life, spend most of your day listening to MTR announcements and triple the amount of pollutants in your already heavy-metal-tainted blood.
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Wow... where to begin?
Ok the low hanging fruit - seriously Lloyd. I'll tolerate your general know-it-allness up to the point where you simply don't know, and here's one of those times. Tung Chung is not the most polluted place in HK. Feel free to prove me wrong.
FluteTang - there are too many questions brought up by the urban legendeers to write to right now, but if you have specific questions please fire away. i've lived in W. Kowloon, Western, DB, and Tung Chung, and generally never had a huge problem with mold even without a dehumidifier. We did have a minor problem w/ our first place in TC, but that was mostly due to construction of a new building next door (poor air flow). Conditions behind mold issues are highly variable in HK... i ahve seen next door flats one with bad mold, one with none. That being said TC is not much cooler or hotter than the city, except in extremes. Air flow (when air is blowing) is much better than any urban area and local pollution is much less (less road traffic). The airport is not a substantial issue though it does sometimes add to dusty conditions. Nitrogen dioxide smells from the two power plants in Tuen Mun are indeed detectable, but this is much reduced in the summer. Still, rather than believe me, Lloyd, or the SCMP who helped place this idea in the minds of the easily convinced, I invite you to do what I did before moving to TC - dowload the historical data from the EPD website and make your own observations.
It really boils down to what you want/need more. NP and TC are very different and appeal to different people. I would not suggest moving if you are happy but just want to get away from humidity as the more north you move the colder it gets. It's not uncommon for S. China to have 'indoor rain" in summers (caused by condensation on ceilings)
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Have many friends I visit in Tung Chung and disagree with LGMV. The area is very nicely layed out with nice open views, greenary and sea. The town is very cosmopolitan with decent living environment and a good mix of friendly people from all nationalities. I don't know much about North Point but TC is definately nicer than most places I visit in HK where there is constant traffic noise, buildings packed together like no tomorrow and plenty filth around. I have never found TC to be a problem with pollution whenever I visit. It is a well known fact that the most polluted areas in HK is Central, Causeway bay, Wanchai & Mong Kok. That does not stop people from moving there and has some of the most expensive properties in HK. HK is a polluted city,even the most exclusive areas, don't be fooled by govt./media figures. The cleanest area in HK is probably only slighty less polluted than the worse. People think that because they are not living in the worst (or media named) areas, they are breathing cleaner safer air - that's a laugh in HK ! , Go to Europe or Canada for clean fresh air. etc. In terms of humidity, In all my years in HK (almost 30 years) I have never seen it so bad as this year, so freakishly high, so maybe just a one of reason the walls in North point are going mouldy. I have visited friends in Seaview Crescent, TC crescent & Le Bleu and haven't noticed an issue with noise from planes. As a matter of fact, their flats were very nice & peaceful with beautiful views.
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Re Tung Chung and pollution. It was certainly a black-spot a couple of years ago before the Lehman's cash - which mysteriously led to a sharp drop-off in pollution. A lot of the bad air comes straight down the Pearl River delta and tends to hit the western part of HK. Obviously, if you are in urban area with a curtain effect like Mong Kok or King's Road, then a lot of the pollution is down to cars and lorries as opposed to Mainland factories. The eastern part of HK usually has the best air.
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Again that sounds like an assumption unless you've seen different data. The "dirtiest place in HK" is a hard label for TC to shake. While it's true that most bad air blows down from the PRD, it doesn't stop at TC... it keeps going. (I always have to chuckle at the DB folks who - living at most a few km away - look at me like I'm mad when I say I live in TC, as if the mountains alone create a hermetic seal.)
While I think it's true that northwest HK may have some slightly higher days when the air is still, the number of good days far outpaces most places in HK, especially when the wind is going the right way.
What TC has in it's favor much better air flow in general (sometimes a bit TOO much) and much lower overall pollution from traffic. This may all change once the HK-MC-ZH bridge gets operating, but we shall see.
BTW - the drop off was no coincidence... it was a direct result of cutting back on production due to the GFC
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I regularly check the Pollution Indices and Tung Chung is always up there with the bad air.
You cannot compare that index with the roadside stations in Causeway Bay, Central and Mongkok... because those stations are right next to all the traffic.
When you visit TC, it seems very lovely. Wide open spaces, almost like living overseas, you don't feel the high density living. You get a nice big place for your money. There is still humidity there. My mum lived there and found the cost of the MTR to be expensive if you have to travel daily.
Incidently, my husband used to live in Discovery Bay and always had a persistent cough, so much so that he had to take a steroid inhaler to get rid of it. I said it was because he always flung his balcony doors open to let in the "fresh air". Finally, we moved in together to Causeway Bay. We kept the windows mostly closed because we had cats, and had air purifiers in the flat. (they were his air purifiers that he had in DB). His cough went away! In CB - can you believe it? The air in DB is just as bad as TC because, as has been pointed it, it's the factory pollution blowing in from southern China.
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News today: API index for Central, Tai po, Sha tin, Causeway, Wan Chai, TST is 500 which is the maximum the sacle allows. For Tung Chung only 369. Seems the "dirtiest Places in HK" changes every day and according to todays figures TC is the cleanest. The label given to TC by the media a few years ago was just sensationalism as the papers had nothing better to report on at the time. Don't get exited about the figures though, 369 or 500, all the same filthy air to me so don't kid yourselves.
Strange things are indeed happening in TC though. My wife in the airline business tells me that 4 of her colleagues are being evicted as well as 2 of my own friends in the past couple weeks as rents are increasing there very rapidly. They have found new premises in TC but at a min 20-25% increase. Prices for flats are also beginning to rise there as well which used to be "cheap as chips" reletive to the quality of life & facilities you get compared to the rest of HK. I put this to a number of factors:
- TC was a reletively new town with abundant supply of properties both for sale & rent, It is beggining to mature with less & less properties becoming available.
- More & more locals are beginning to move there & snapping up flats for end use, as prices there are still lagging pretty much the rest of HK. ( 4-5 mths ago U could buy a flat for less than 2mil. Now basic about 2.5 mil - but still cheap comparatively)
- Those who bought flats in TC for "cheap as chips" a few years ago and were holding 2 or 3 flats rented them out for peanuts in order to service their morgages. Renters had a field day squeezing the blood out of the owners & could easily walk if they didn't comply as plenty other flats & willing owners were available. These investors are gradually being shaken out & replaced by more end users.
The table is beggining to turn there fast. New owners who bought at higher prices are now dictating the rents as the rental supply is becoming reduced with more & more end users being pushed to TC, I supspect rents and flat prices there are going to rise further.
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The one good thing to come out of this horrendous API day is that TC no longer has to wear the crown as the record-holder.
Slammy - on dirty days TC tends to move w/ the rest of HK, but if you're so inclined, I would invite you to download the historical data as well. In fact I'm going to update my old charts now (sad, I know)
As a sad postscript - l these 500's makes me think that 500 is the highest level they can measure. It really sucks that we have to engage in "my neighborhood is dirtier than yours" mudslinging.
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Sure, I would love to see the historical data - I was trying to find stuff on the EPD website.
Incidently, Flyboy posted this on another forum where we were talking about the terrible air yesterday... I don't know why it singles out TC but anyway, here's his link.
http://www.greenpeace.org/china/en/campaigns/air-pollution/real-index/bar-chart
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Hey~~you guys are amazing!! Such discussions are so....so helpful and inspiring!!
So we went. A weekend-visit to this hot spot: Tung Chung.
It did not fail us. Guess all "first-time visitors" (esp., those who have been squeezed in HK for quite a while...) could not help to "Wow" while stepping out of the MTR station. Both sea view and airport view are possible. We enjoyed very much watching the takeoffs and landings at the 57th floor ~~ even the aircrafts' quite moving to get ready for takeoff amused us a lot as well.
We biked, played basketball, and had some Haagen-Daz before we left. We visited Tung Chung Crescent, Seaview Crescent & Caribbean Coast … and the CityGate mall of course. TASTE market's various kinds of bread are our darling favorite.
Tung Chung is definitely top on our list.
To make a contrast (on issues of transportation and sea view), for the coming days, we will pay visits to Olympic. Any suggestions?
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FluteTang... glad you enjoyed your visit to TC and hope you may someday be a neighbor.
Interestingly, I lived in Olympic when I first moved to HK (Island Harbourview). The area was still quite new at the time - about the same age as TC for the same reasons (the airport construction and subsequent development of the AX and TC MTR lines) - and back then there was not much to it. However it was very convenient to both Central and Kowloon and has only developed since then. If you appreciate convenience it's a good choice, albeit the conveniences comes at a price.
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Slammy... if you are interested in reviewing the raw data, it's at this link
http://www.epd-asg.gov.hk/english/pastapi/pastapie.php
Furthermore, the "API Monthly Summary" also gives a good glimpse into the monthly "performance" of each location.
Finally, to the locations themselves... Greenpeace is not singling them out, rather the report corresponds to the locations of the EPD monitoring stations in HK (one of which is in TC)
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I have read LGMV's opinions on another HK Property thread. and I mostly respect them. But here I agree with GuguBear, he is wrong about Tung Chung. I have lived in TC for about two years, and found it a very livable place. No more polluted than West Kowloon, where I live now.
In fact, I would described TC as the cheapest Expat-friendly place in Hong Kong. At an average of $3500-4000 psf it is deeply undervalued compared to places like Tseung Kwan O, Yuen Long, etc. The biggest problem is the extra commuting time it takes to get there. I calculate that each extra minute of commuting from Central takes maybe $150-200 psf off the price. If you applied this calculation to TKO and YL, they would be far cheaper, and I think that the market will eventually drive them lower and TC up, after the speculative buying of "new" properties fades, and investors have to face the reality of low rental yields.
We shall see if this is right, but given time, I expect to see TC, TKO, and YL all trade at similar prices per square foot, maybe in 2-3 years time.
In the meantime, TC looks undervalued to me.
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In part to satisfy my own curiosity, I have finished updating my chart based on the EPD data (last time I had done this was 2007). Results of averages of three pollution levels (daily max, daily min, daily average) are below for both total period (99 - Mar 10) and the last 5 years (05-09 inclusive), sorted from "dirtiest" down. Hope this formats well and that you find it interesting
Avg Total Last 5yr
----------------------------------------------
CB Road 68.7 67.4
Central Road 66.4 67.9
Mong Kok Road 65.4 67.1
Kwai Chung 48.3 47.7
Yuen Long 47.5 47.5
Tsuen Wan 47.3 47.1
Kwun Tong 47.3 45.2
Sham Shui Po 47.1 47.1
Central/Western 44.2 44.1
Tung Chung 43.1 43.6
Tai Po 42.9 42.9
Sha Tin 42.6 42.6
Eastern 41.8 41.7
Tap Mun 40.4 42.3
Max Total Last 5yr
----------------------------------------------
CB Road 74.3 73.2
Central Road 73.6 75.3
Mong Kok 71.2 73.1
Kwai Chung 54.4 53.4
Yuen Long 54.1 54.7
Tsuen Wan 53.0 52.5
Kwun Tong 52.8 50.7
Sham Shui Po 52.7 52.9
Tung Chung 52.2 51.8
Central/Western 50.8 51.0
Tap Mun 49.5 51.5
Sha Tin 49.2 49.6
Tai Po 48.9 49.1
Eastern 46.8 46.8
Min Total Last 5yr
----------------------------------------------
CB Road 63.3 61.8
Mong Kok 59.8 61.5
Central Road 59.5 60.9
Kwai Chung 42.5 42.3
Tsuen Wan 42.0 42.0
Yuen Long 42.0 42.0
Sham Shui Po 42.0 42.1
Kwun Tong 41.9 40.0
Central/Western 38.4 38.3
Tai Po 37.7 37.9
Sha Tin 37.1 37.3
Eastern 36.9 36.9
Tung Chung 36.7 37.4
Tap Mun 33.6 35.9
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That analysis shows that Tung Chung is on the low end - I am not surprised.
Another mistaken view about TC held by many who have rarely been there, or maybe never been there, deserves to be consigned to the dustbin.
Most people who live in TC like it there, and the ones that do not are either: + Single, and prefer someplace that is socially "livelier" (although TC is getting better, or: + Cannot stand the somewhat longer commute.
If you are on a budget, you get much for your money. The big flats (1200 sf) with great seaviews have only just edged up to $4,000 psf.
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I'm still not convinced about Tung Chung not being polluted. Of course it won't have the same roadside pollution as Causeway Bay or Mongkok but we are not talking about roadside for TC; we are talking about gunk from Pearl River delta factories. The HK govt can do something about the former but very little about the latter.
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Hi Ted - thanks for posting the figures.
If you consider the average pollution over five years, disregarding the Roadside figures of course, then it would appear Tung Chung is better than half the places on the list.
But going one step further, I would want to consider where are the general stations located? Because if you locate a station in a high density area with little wind flow, then naturally those figures would be higher, right?
But TC has low density living and lots of air flow. Despite these factors, it's pollution measures the same as other areas.
My conclusion, Ted, is I'm still not convinced - and in fact, I'm going on the EPD website now just to find out where the other general stations are located.
I may be prejudiced in the face of statistics but I'm siding with Loyd's argument at the moment, but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong. :-)
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Good idea Slammy, and I encourage everyone to review the data themselves and make their own decisions. Interesting theories about the environment - I've never really considered that - but if the absolute effect is lower pollution in a particular area, I'll go where the lower numbers are (regardless of why). Anyway that's my point, despite very different environments, and disregarding extreme good or bad days, most non-road areas in HK seem to average out roughly the same. The problem is EVERYWHERE.
Lloyd, fair enough, but I am trying to disspell the theory that this "magic air" follows a direct path down the river and stops at Lantau, as if northern NT, DB, etc are somehow spared. I question that HK is big enough to have substantial variety in it's bad air (again see my point above)
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FluteTang,
Your: "Tung Chung is definitely top on our list.
To make a contrast (on issues of transportation and sea view), for the coming days, we will pay visits to Olympic. Any suggestions?"
Are you following me? (Just kidding.)
We know about Olympic too. More expensive than TC - roughly double, or perhaps more than that. But nicely undervalued compared to Midlevels IMHO.
Make sure you check out The Long Beach, because it is one of the few developments in the area, where the 2BR flats can accommodate a full-sized bed without the resort of putting the mattress on the Bay window. People who live at LB mostly love it, and you will not find many flats on offer.
Personally, I cannot work out how people live in some of the other flats in the area. The layouts are "challenged", unless you go for a large 3BR or 4BR.
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