Rent reduction for non working aircon's

Hi,


do I have the right to reduce the rent by 10% if the aircon's are not working in the house?


In my case 4 out of 6 aircons are not working and I've informed the landlady 4 month ago about it and she doesn't care / react to get them fixed??


Regards

Holger

hey there! I'm in the same situation. The aircon's don't work apart from in 2 rooms of the house and the landlord doesn't seem to care. Am thinking about withholding rent. How did you resolve your situation and does anyone else have a solution?

I don’t think a standard tenancy agreement or lease would allow you to reduce or withhold rent at all, if you have any problem with the landlord about the repairs, because, one of the covenants or obligations as a tenant is to pay the landlord the rent in full and in time, in exchange for your exclusive possession and quiet enjoyment in the premises during the term of the agreement. By reducing or withholding the rent(s), you could be subject to eviction for breach of the tenancy agreement.


If there is any problem with the premises, you should try to talk to the landlord first and confirm it by sending a written notice to the landlord so that you have the proof, in case, if you ever have to resort it to litigations. It is always a good idea to work with NOT against the landlord because it would cost you time, efforts and money if you argue with the landlord and especially if you have to try to resolve it through the legal channel..


Without looking at your tenancy agreement, it is difficult for anyone to give you any comments but as a general rule of thumb, as far as repairs are concerned, the landlord would only do structural and external repairs for you, if something happens to the premises. In the case of the problem with the air-conditioners, it should fall into the categories of internal and non-structural repairs. I don’t mean to be on the side of the landlord but the fact of the matter is the air-conditioner was in working condition when you moved in and now, there is a problem, wouldn’t it be fair to say that you should try to fix the air-conditioning problems yourself and at your own expense? Because you have agreed in the tenancy agreement that you would keep the premises in good repairs at all times.


The Land Tribunal in Hong Kong deals with legal disputes over land for the landlords and the tenants but I am not too sure if they would deal with and hear your case about the problem with the air-conditioners so your best bet would be try to talk to the landlord nicely if the landlord would repair the air-conditioners for you or at least pay for half of the costs of the repair? But in my opinion, unless it becomes really necessary, you should never try to confront and argue with the landlord about this repair. Negotiation is always the best route for you. Thank you and good luck to you.

complete rubbish joseph wong!



the standard tenancy agreements provide that the landlord keeps in working order all provided appliances in the apartment and if not specified aircons certainly belong into this category.


of course the tenancy agreement could explicitly exclude the maintenance of appliances/equipment, but it's certainly not standard.


the good part of the above post is to advise sending a letter in writing to the landlord, and implicitly seek for a rent reduction of x%. personally, non-working aircons would make an apartment non-liveable during a Hong Kong summer, so i would be seeking much more than 10% - but that's my personal view

If you like and accept the idea of sending a letter to the landlord, then my suggestion is not a COMPLETE rubbish as what you have indicated in your reply.


Like what I have said before, without looking at the actual agreement, it is hard for anyone to give out any good suggestion but the main purpose of my suggestion is always try to work with the landlord NOT to fight with them. It is always easier and cheaper to talk and negotiate than taking it to the extreme.

Originally posted by cookie09


"complete rubbish joseph wong!


the standard tenancy agreements provide that the landlord keeps in working order all provided appliances in the apartment and if not specified aircons certainly belong into this category."


Wow, Cookie! Harsh.

Especially when you're wrong. In fact, I can't see anything wrong with what wongjoseph said above.


'Standard' tenancy agreements state that the tenant receives the property in a particular condition (including fixtures and appliances), and it is the tenant's responsibility to hand it back to the landlord in similar condition. The upkeep of household appliances including servicing of air conditioners and refridgerators is usually the tenant's responsibility.


It is only the landlord's responsibility if it is specifically stated in the tenancy agreement.

Agree 100% Thanks very much, Brocko

I guess the bottom line is the cost and who should pay for this cost to have the air-cons fixed to have the problem resolved? If we set aside the legal obligations for a moment as to who is legally responsible and let us step back, relax and look at alternatives! Have you ever got an estimate about how much for the repairs because the problems could have been just the adding of the freons or due to some minor mechanical problems making it not worthwhile to ruin or destroy your good relationship with the landlord? Without the actual cost, it is hard for you to try to convince yourself or the landlord to pay for it. The cost of repairs could have been very minimal but the cost to fight with the landlord is enormous and expensive, if you consider also the stress and the possibility of destroying this relationship. Your relationship with the landlord is just like taking years to grow a tree but it only takes minutes to destroy or burn it down. If the cost is not much, pay for it yourself and move on or if it is a lot, ask the landlord to pay for it or at least share part of the costs to have a win-win situation.


Most people fight for principles more than the actual cost of the problem so if we accept this theory and the basis of the argument and if we look at it from the position and the standpoint of the landlord that if the landlord accepted it that it was his responsibility to pay for the costs, the problems would have been resolved four months ago and indeed, we have two actual cases in this forum that we have two people with the same problem but the landlord refused to fix. What went wrong? And if we honestly ask ourselves the same question, if I was the landlord, would I fix it at my own cost? The two landlords in this case obviously didn't want to do it.


By forcing the landlord to accept something that he or she doesn't want to accept, you may run into a problem at a later date that you may not be able to renew the lease or even if you can, you may not get your terms. There is no right or wrong of dealing with this problem either way because you are the judge to make the final decision as to which route is good for you. You just have to weigh both options either to do it peacefully or not.

Sorry, I missed the comments from madtown. The roof would fall into the category of external and structural defects or problems which is the responsibility of the landlord and the landlord or the management company has insurance to pay for the repairs if the roof was torn off by typhoon. Therefore, it shouldn't have any argument or problem on this between the landlord and the tenant. It is hard to determine if the problem was caused by negligence or simply normal wear and tear since the landlord does not live with the tenant and because of excessive uses of the air-cons in summer (sometimes the air-con is left on 24 hours) making it very vulnerable to breakdowns and malfunctioning.


Nevertheless, if the person who asked the question about reducing the rent to recover the cost of repairs agrees with the holdback of rent, give it a try. It may not be a bad idea after all, never try never know. Right! It may work!

Originall posted by madtown

"HUH? so it is the tenants responsibility to upkeep the appliances? I don't think so. As long as it is normal wear and tear (not abuse), the responsibility lies with the landlord."


Yes, in a standard Tenancy Agreement this is the case. If you are not mindful of these facts, or your agent doesn't care enough to tell you, then you could find yourself with some unexpected expenses. A lot of the time landlords aren't aware of these facts, or would simply like to maintain a good relationship with their tenant, so they take care of it. These people should consider themselves lucky.


Check the details of your Tenancy Agreement. If you haven't specifically requested clauses that put the responsibility back on to the landlord, then chances are these bills have your name on them.


If you decide to withold the full rent to cover these costs, then you could be the one in breach of the agreement. Even if it turns out to be the landlord's responsibility, non-payment of rent is still a breach of the agreement. In the event of a court case, you will be found to be at fault. It really is bad advice to give someone.


The best thing any tenant can do is to maintain a good relationship with their landlord. Don't yell at them on the phone, don't demand everything, be nice. The squeaky wheel rarely gets the grease, in my experience.