News Hong Kong Property & Finance

Best websites to find rental apartments?

ORIGINAL POST
Posted by lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
We're moving to HK from NYC next month. I'm looking at craigslist and squarefoot to get an idea of apartments, but without being there and seeing the apartments, it's hard to tell how accurate these sites are. What do you think is the best place to find apartment rental postings? Thanks.

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COMMENTS
Ed 12 yrs ago
The problem with most property sites in HK is they never delete old listings... if you look at most of them they have literally tens of thousands of listings...


There simply are nowhere near that many apartments for rent EVER at one time in HK...


When we built our property channel out we decided this was all nonsense and we put in mechanisms to remove out-dated properties:


After two weeks on the site the agents get an alert asking them if the listing is still active - if it is they click and it renews for another two weeks. If they don't delete the listing or fail to click the renewal, it auto-deletes shortly after.


Additionally we have an option to report inaccurate listings on our site. These alerts come to me - and are investigated - if we find against an agent they are blacklisted. Believe me - the agents are very quick to rectify any problems with their listings...


We may not have the most properties but if you want relevant, up-to-date listings, click here



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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
Thanks, Ed. That's really interesting. Squarefoot, for instance, seemed too good to be true! People have been telling me it's so hard to find a good apartment in HK, and according to those sites, it seems like the choices are just inifinite! I've been looking at asiaxpat properties too-- it's very helpful to hear of your system for ensuring accuracy. Thanks!

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Ed 12 yrs ago
Good point Softy. I'd recommend you visit the web sites of some of the agents - I think it's more likely that you will find up-to-date listings there...


And if you don't let them know that you are very unhappy if you inquire about a listing and are told it's no longer available... Tell them specifically that you will not do business with them because of this tactic...

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Remmy 12 yrs ago
I agree - squarefoot is terribly out of date and therefore often deceptive.

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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
Thanks, everyone, for the advice! It's a big help to read this before we can actually see things for ourselves this fall.

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Ed 12 yrs ago
One suggestion.... often it can be good to spend a bit of time in the city to get your bearings before signing a lease... instead of rushing into a long term commitment you might consider a serviced apartment for a month or two http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/property/serviced.asp

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NuinHK 12 yrs ago
@Ed: would it be possible to add a "sort by size" function to the property listing? As you well know, sizes and prices do not necessirily correlate. Thanks.

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
"instead of rushing into a long term commitment you might consider a serviced apartment for a month or two..."


Good idea,

Else the agents will stuff you into some over-priced property in MidLevels, which is easy for them, and earns them a higher commission.


Its better to explore the city a bit more, and find what really SUITS YOU, not the agents that are showing you around.

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Ed 12 yrs ago
Will look at adding additional search functions

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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
Thanks, I agree with all above. We will be in a serviced apartment for a month, per my husband's company, and will have time to look. But I wanted to get the lay of the land ahead of time.


@OffthePeak (and anyone else) Question about brokers-- do I need to find one that represents me or just call whoever shows each apartment? Is it possible to find a place without a broker? I saw the Direct from Owner listings on here, which look great, but other than that?

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
Lucy,

You might try to get an option to stay in the serviced apartment for another month or two. Then you will have time to do more thorough research.


If your company doesn't like it, maybe ask to move to a cheaper serviced apartment after one month. One month really isn't enough time. You will get rushed into something that is too expensive, or suboptimal.


Agents here typically charge 1/2 month to the tenant and 1/2 month to the landlord. Hence they have an incentive to help you.


Do some research on your own, because an agent will try to steer you into what they have available, and also into the most expensive property they think you can afford and will (vaguely) suit you. Be prepared, since they are sharks, and know how to swallow the new fish that come their way. Test them early to see how much they are really listening to you, and remember that they are in business and not really "friends" - however friendly they may appear to be.


How do you find them?

After you explore HK a bit, and find areas that may be suitable, you will find that there are Estate Agents EVERYWHERE. If you have the confidence, just walk in an ask who speaks English, and someone should be happy to help you. That's a good way to learn a bit about areas that are on the edge of what you think you want. The very first thing they will ask you is: "What's your budget? How many bedrooms do you want?"


If you want to show them you know the market, you could say something like:


+ I want 3BRs (or whatever)

+ I want at least 1,200 sf (or whatever)

+ I want a view, and a nice clubhouse (if you do)

+ It should be close to transport - walking distance to an MTR or with shuttle bus

(if that stuff is important)

+ AND I DON'T WANT TO PAY MORE THAN $30 a sf (or whatever) : 1,200 x $30 = $36,000 - this is just an example, your budget may be more or less than that.


If you give them that sort of information, then they will be able to assist you better. And most agents should be able to tell you pretty quickly, without even showing you property, if there is something decent within your target* ($30 per sf, or whatever) in the area that you are looking in.


Schools will be very, very important if you have children of that age. And that is something on which I cannot give you any suggestions

=== ===


*BTW,

I find that most agents will take your budget as a minimum figure, rather than a maximum, so you may want to start out quoting a figure which is 10-20% lower than your real figure. That way, if you don't like what you are seeing, you can ask for better. And don't forget to negotiate when you find something you like. Getting two weeks free, and maybe 5-10% off the asking rent is not unusual.


**I find I get on with most agents, because although I know they are playing a game, I treat them with respect, and never forget that they need to make a living. In fact, I now talk with them for 20-30 minutes at least, to learn about the area before I view flats. If they cannot answer my questions, or don't seem interested enough, I move on.


I make it clear that I am an experienced professional at the property game, and I expect them to show me respect too. It is easy to find another agent, if you come across one who is not giving you a straight story.

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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
OffthePeak-- thank you so much for the advice! We'll keep all that in mind and try to look like we know what we're doing : )

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
Sorry if you know all that already.


I am just passing on what I would have like to hear when I first moved here.


You may be shocked by rents in HK. But if you explore a bit, you may find a suitable alternative away from the (expensive) areas the Estate Agents will want to show you.

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NuinHK 12 yrs ago
Don't be "bullied" into signing any forms during initial contact. RE agents will tell you it is a government requirement. That is simply BS.

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NuinHK 12 yrs ago
"AFTER visiting a flat", exactly.

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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
This is getting complicated... so can anyone recommend a trustworthy broker you've had a good experience with?

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Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela 12 yrs ago
Softy. They're not sharks. Most agents obviously want to close a deal and move on to the next one but I have bought and sold several places in Hk over the years and have had no problem. The agents are regulated by the HK government and they need a certain level of education and a licence to be able to operate. Having said that, it is not like the US where the agent may offer some kind of service. They show you the goods and you takes your choice. The main agents are Midland, Centaline and Hong Kong Property. You will find shops all over HK. You simply walk in and tell them what you want and you budget. You then sign a standard form which means if you close the deal, they will get 1 month's commission as a fee (this is to protect them from wasting their time - ie they show someone a flat and then the prospective tenant and landlord do a deal to cut out the agent). If you are selling, they get a 1% commission of the selling price - though for high end, some sellers knock them down. Midland and HK property are run by hong Kong's richest man, Li ka Shing, so they are not small time crooks. The only thing to watch out for is if you are selling, don't give them the right to act as sole agent. Once you have agreed to rent a property, the agent will draw up the contract. You sign and pay the agent plus 50% of the stamp duty (a few hundred HK dollars which is basically registering the contract with the government). They will also fill out a CR107 form which informs the Rating and Valuation Department of the agreement. That's it. There should be a clause allowing you to pull out of the contract after 12-13 months. However, nowadays the landlord might also insist on a clause which allows him/her to put the rent up after 12-13 months. The usual argument is that this is standard. Many people fall for this but there is nothing standard about this - you are free to negotiate. I always used to insist on the right to pull out after 12 months and the landlord having no right to increase the rent. However, with inflation rising and the property market performing well, the landlord may reject you as a tenant if you do not agree to this.

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Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela 12 yrs ago
Softy. Suing in HK is not cheap. Get a grip. Renting is very straight forward and most agents are not unscrupulous. Renting is small potato money for them, they want to close the deal and they may be slightly pushy but it's no where as bad as you say. It's just a HK rental contract not a World Trade Organisation treaty. Really, it's very easy to rent though you may be disappointed with the space you are offered. Roughly, what is your budget?

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
"I always used to insist on the right to pull out after 12 months and the landlord having no right to increase the rent."


As a former Landlord, who once owned over half a dozen flats in HK, I would not sign an assymetrical lease like that, unless the rent was well above market

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Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela 12 yrs ago
OTP. Yes, nowadays I agree that would be hard but the market was in renters' favour last time I rented. It was one of the reasons I bought a bigger place. I have a family and moving is very stressful when you have kids in school. I didn't want to be at the mercy of a landlord ramping up the rent after only 12 months. As a small landlord myself, I usually give my tenants a straight 24 months without me having the option to raise rents. I want stable long-term tenants and pushing up the rent after only 12 months annoys them.

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
I think you can show that at 12months, by "playing fair" then

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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
Thanks for the interesting discussion, everyone. @Loyd-- our budget is 13,500-17,500 HKD per month. We'd like a 2BR on Hong Kong Island, at least 500 sq. ft. And I'd really like a balcony! We've heard good things about Sheung Wan, Sai Ying Pun, Tai Hang and Happy Valley, and we liked Wanchai on our last trip, but we'll look all over once we get there.

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Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela 12 yrs ago
Don't forget in HK, the square footage is 'gross' - ie it includes the flat's share of common areas such as lifts. So if you ask for a 500 square foot flat, you will probably get 70-80pc of that (350-400 square feet). I know this sounds crooked but all HK flats are listed in gross square foot areas at the estate agents. Every single one. You, therefore also need to ask for the percentage usage. Many old buildings don't have the net square footage so everyone trades on gross. The government will soon be forcing developers to sell new flats on a net basis though this is too complicated to do in the secondary market. Not really a problem as the price is the same whether measured in gross or net square footage. You just need to see the flat and judge for yourselves.

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
"budget is 13,500-17,500 HKD per month.

We'd like a 2BR on Hong Kong Island, at least 500 sq. ft"


That will be a real challenge.

After you see what you get for your money on HK Island, you might try:


+ "Four Little Dragons" in Kowloon, or even:

+ Tung Chung



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Gucci 12 yrs ago
@ Loyd: Estate agents are NOT govt regulated but self-regulated by the Estate Agents Authority (EAA) at Hopewell Centre Wanchai. They get a licence and pay a membership fee so it's not the same thing as being subject to more stringent govt regulation.


@lucyalmost: During my last flat + rooftop hunt in Central I dodged a bullet. Agent asked me to wait 6 weeks for a new ownershp to be processed which would then be reflected in the govt. issued "land search" available at the 19/F Land Registry Queensway Govt Offices (Admiralty). Six weeks later agent called me to sign the Tenancy Agreement telling me the sale was complete. Before the meeting I went to the Landsearch and found that the updated land search DID NOT reflect the new owner. The agent was non-plussed when I asked him about it and told me to "TRUST" him and the landlady who was present. Both tried to bully me and accused me of being distrustful hoping I'd cave. I politely thanked them and walked out. I'd say most agents are not to be trusted. Even a newbie from Professional Properties by the Elgin Street escalator who was searching the database for flats in front of me, was told by his supervisor in Chinese to show me more expensive flats! Best!

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OffThePeak 12 yrs ago
"newbie from Professional Properties by the Elgin Street escalator who was searching the database for flats in front of me, was told by his supervisor in Chinese to show me more expensive flats!"


Yep.

That nearly always happens when you visit an agent for the first time. The idea is to "adjust your price references upwards". Then, when they show you something PRICED-AT-MARKET it might look cheap.


That's why I walk in with a target like: "Don't show me anything priced at more than HK$7,000 psf". That introduces me as someone who is highly price sensitive, and (maybe) who knows something about the market. It helps to short-circuit their natural most-expensive-flats response.

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gallana 12 yrs ago
Please try website PropGO.com . They are i would say the best. A lot of listings and pleasure operating. Good luck

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walterhkwhite 12 yrs ago
Hi lucyalmost,


You may contact the agent I've used, he was very helpful, his is an expatriate as well, fluent english, very friendly and I'm sure he will be able to help, his name is Moran and his phone number is +8526194496.


good luck.

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lucyalmost 12 yrs ago
Thanks so much for that name and number, walterhk. It is such a help to have some personal recommendations so we have somewhere to begin when we arrive Dec. 1.

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hkxxxpat 12 yrs ago
remember most "personal recommendations" these days are actually the person doing the recommendation - if not, i wonder if he will even be interested at your budget?


fortunately it will be a little cooler when you arrive, as shoe leather is the only way to determine where to live. i have looked at hundreds of properties, but it is a mystery what a place will be like until you walk inside. suggest you plan on looking at hundreds online, scores in person in say the first week - then cry or drink a lot on the weekend wondering why you ever moved here - then make a decision the week by district first, and then building. think macro and work your way down.


at your budget on hk island think one bedroom and you might find something. like OTP suggests, off the island you will get more (and his advice is ideal for a newbie). though I am not quite certain where this kowloon district that he often talks of is located, so be a bit careful there.... hehe (kowloon is a bit like queens i guess, though residents think it is like brooklyn, as if).

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