Posted by
kcbrown50
17 yrs ago
My Landlord has decided to sell the house and want's us out.
We initially came on the standard 2 year agreement. After that expired, we have since stayed another 4 years - with no further contracts signed.
How much norice does the Landlord have to give?
I believe a recent law implies a minimum of 12 months if a Tenant has been resident for more than a certain period of time.
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ltxhk
17 yrs ago
Without a signed and stamped contract there are no tenant rights. 2 to 3 months notice would be reasonable and 12 months extraordinary. You will need to move unless you can reach some agreement with the landlord.
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ldavy
17 yrs ago
kcbrown 50, you're in luck! The law changed on 9 July 2004. For any Tenancy Agreement in existence before that date, the landlord must serve a TTN (Transitional Termination Notice), and must give 12 months' notice. So, as long as your original Agreement was signed before 9 July 2004, your landlord must now give you 12 months' notice. The fact that you haven't had a contract since then makes no difference.
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ldavy,
The law is for contract within force. Once that contract expires you are then on a new contract and that is subject to whatever the law is at the time. The contract the OP originally had expired so as far as the law states they have been living in a situation with no protection at all. The landlord could theoretically kick them out tomorrow. That's just how it is.
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ldavy
17 yrs ago
evildeeds, sorry but I am 99.9% certain that you're wrong here. As there has not been a new Tenancy Agreement, a TTN has to be served. kcbrown50, I suggest you contact the Law Society for free legal advice (2521-3333 or 2522-8018). This is from "A Summary Guide on the Landlord & Tenant (Consolidation) Ordinance":
"Until terminated by a TTN, a tenancy will continue on its existing rent and terms notwithstanding expiry of the original duration of the tenancy."
This of course ONLY applies to tenancies which were in existence prior to 9 July 2004.
kcbrown 50, if you want to discuss this please feel free to e-mail me at linda@queensproperty.com
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ldavy
17 yrs ago
Here's an example - recently I had clients looking for a flat. They had originally signed a tenancy agreement prior to 9 July 2004. At the end of the two-year period the landlord wanted them to move out, but they knew their rights and informed him that he had to give them a TTN and 12 month's notice. He reluctantly accepted that they would be staying for a further year at the same rent - but he forgot to actually issue a TTN. A year later, he told them again that they had to leave, and they again told him that he had to issue a TTN. This time he did remember. Of course, when the 12 months were up, they were in no position to try and negotiate anything with the landlord!
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ldavy, I really do think that if this ends up in court it will not stand. If the above is true it's a first as far as I know, adhering to a contract that's no longer in force! Well if someone is that stupid! Someone did try that one with me a while back, I told them to take a hike or get a lawyer. I know they took legal advice and went.......
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ldavy
17 yrs ago
evildeeds, I agree it seems ridiculous and also unfair on the landlord but I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting the law correctly. The quote above is from the Summary Guide issued by the Rating and Valuation Department. I spoke to a lawyer before posting my reply, and although he's not a property lawyer he was also fairly certain that it was correct. The fact that the landlord wants to sell the property may make a difference, I'm not sure.
kcbrown50, if you do consult a lawyer or the Law Society perhaps you'd be good enough to let us know what they tell you.
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ldavy, actually I spoke to my lawyer about something else today and mentioned this situation to him. Actually you are correct in stating the TTN can be in force albeit in a more limited form. The problem the OP will face is no contract, this can cause a problem especially if the landlord comes up with "unsigned" paperwork. The wording on the original contract can also have an effect on the outcome. Looks like th OP may have to consult a property lawyer.
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Thanks everybody for your input - greatly appreciated.
I got in touch - wrongly - with some Government Dept today but they gave me a phone number for the Home Affairs Dept - 28352500.
I will try that and follow up on your contacts ldavy.
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ldavy
17 yrs ago
Hmmm, kcbrown50 please do let us know the outcome - thanks for your input evildeeds - seems that nothing is concrete in Hong Kong law!
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"seems that nothing is concrete in Hong Kong law!"
I agree 100% with that, interpretations seem to have more to do with who will gain (at high level) than letter of the law.
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merp
17 yrs ago
I rented a flat in 2002 and signed 2 yrs contract. Again In 2005 I signed 2 yrs contract for the same flat same owner. In 2006 my owner sold the flat to another person. This Second owner hold for 5 months and sold it to another the third owner. This Third owner hold it for about one year. On Jan 2008 I signed 1 yr contract for the same flat. On april 2008 third owner sold again to forth owner. NOw this forth owner given me the one month notice to leave the flat on 18 Jun 2008 couple of days ago. In this case am I entitle for 12 months TTN ( Transitional Termination Notice )? I have been staying in this flat since 2002 and I still have the First Original Contract Paper.Please advice me, thanks.
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Just my non-legal views:
I thought new tenancies after 2004 not covered (and that was the whole point of the TTN to cover existing tenancies).
And to the original emailer - any rent increases? Thought if there were that would stop the argument re needing a TTNs because there has been a change in the terms after 9/7/04.
Intrigued to know the answers...
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Actually, I got a reduction in rent after the first two years contract expired, which is a change in terms and conditions, I suppose.
Also, I managed to find my original contract and have shot myself in the foot with additional specific termination requests at that time.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
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