Chinese cultural issues with inlaws

I'm trying to get some perspective on a problem I am having with my in laws. Basically they are local Chinese , whilst I am a caucasian who met her husband when he was studying overseas, married and then after a few years he suddenly wanted to come back to HK as his father took ill (but then miraculously got better - I think there was a lot of over dramatization of FILs situation to force his son's hand to return to HK). We do not live with my inlaws, are not dependent on them financially, nor do we need to support them.


I am now having huge issues with them, particularly as it relates to the truth and each time, my husband tells me, in cahoots with his parents, that this is the Chinese way and to act any other way is disrespectful. Cases in point.


1. I will ask that they only give toys/presents to my children on birthdays/Christmas time - but every week my MIL will come home with a whole booty load of clips, headbands, toys, stickers, scoks, undies, towels, biscuits, ice-cream ect ect. I have tried to refuse nicely but it was met with ' oh we just love our grandkids so so much, just let us spoil them'

When even our helpers told us they had no more room for all the stuff we were passing along to them (the helper quarters are not huge), I started being a bit more firm with the in laws. This was met with a very dramatic scene by the MIL, who basically told me she knew I was trying to stop her being loving to her grandkids. FYI the buying continued (MIL is clearly a shopaholic with her own stuff too), and then I started sending the stuff back to the in laws home. This started something huge, my husband backed me up but I could tell he was under attack, and then came all this thing about Chinese culture, and even if I did not like it, I should suck it up as any other way was disrepectful.


Its not like we deny the in laws time with the children. They get 2 full days with the children from morning (for one who isn't in school)/after school (for one in nursery) until 1 hour before bed time when I want the children home to wind down. As a parent I want them to spend time reading to the children, indulging them in creative play, drawing, sharing their interests (although I note they dont have any other than eating out and shopping) with the children rather than taking them shopping all the time or leaving them at home with their helper whilst MIL shops for them/FIL plays golf. Sadly this happens more than one would expect especially since they insist the grandkids are their 'life'.


2. Almost every week we receive 'presents' from them and they are unwanted. Its pretty obvious they have received gifts from friends or its stuff they don't want, yet want to regift to us, and expected a huge song and dance about how grateful we are. It wasn't obvious to me when I first got to HK, but now it's too (painfully ) obvious. Things like, they will print off a series of pictures from our eldest's recent birthday, pick out all the bext ones for themselves and pass us the leftovers. Then they get into a huff as we did not thank them for the pics. Its hard to thank someone for blurred photos of your children/husband/self, back shots ect although to be fair there were a few okay ones in amongst them. Other presents include a fruit basket with the best fruit already removed, coupons near their useby date etc ect. Again when I brought it up that it was obviously not something specifically picked out for our family - MIL has pulled my husband aside and told him she thought I was ill bred, mother should have taught me better!


I guess I would just do things differently, if it was something I had no use for, I would say, to say my sister for instance, look, I have no more use for this stuff but you are welcome to it if you want otherwise I'll offer it up to someone else. My in laws do this whole song and dance about how they 'went out of their way' to print the pics, get the fruit basket for us ect ect which brings me to my third point


3. And this is the lying. It goes from small things like pretending to 'go out of their way' to print pictures, buy the fruit basket for us, to bigger stuff like deliberately going against me as a parent when I tell them I expect my child to do her homework right after school before starting to play (on the days she is at her grandparents). They will lie to my face whilst loooking me in the eye and insist the homework was done first, whilst they backchat about me behind my back to my child about how 'mummy wants you to do your homework first but let' splay/eat ice cream/whatever and do it later'. Net result is she comes home without having done her worksheet due in for class the next day and is forced to do it just before bed (and she is really gnarly about it) or in the morning before school.


Other big whoppers they have told include the one about my FIL being greviously ill, so that his son had to make a decision to pack up our home and life to relocate to HK. Only to find that he's not all that poorly once we've actually come here.


Other than my issues with the in laws, my life in HK is pretty great. I have a great home, great family. At times my husband will spring forth an obvious lie (like when I asked him where did the 20 packets of past use by date pasta in the pantry come from (I discovered on my annual spring clean) - he will say he bought it! He nevers goes grocery shopping), ?his unbringing but for the most part he is honest.


Is it true what I have been told, that all grown children here just put up with whatever it is the parents/in laws want to do/say/act even if they don't think it is appropriate? Do I not get a say in the way I want my children raised? Is lying 'not lying' amongst the Chinese? Do I just have to suck this up? Forever?

frankly i expected a real drama but all your examples are small things. i really think you need to get used to it a bit more and think more about where your priorities lie. here's how i look at it:


1. small gifts/shopping/etc: let it be. it's just not worth a big fight. throw away the stuff you don't want/need/etc. i regularly throw away things at my home including stupid toys they were given, etc


2. presents and doing a song&dance: again suck it up. not worth a fight. play it clever, do as they wish, but then throw away what you don't like/need


3. small lying. again it would not bother too much and just suck it up. personally i would judge them but indulge them if it is not something seriously important to me. the only thing that gave me second thoughts is the home work and kids point. it's an important one and i would insist on it. in fact i am surprised about it since chinese parents and grand parents are usually insistent on doing lots of home work. i personally think you probably go about it the wrong way, i.e. when you tell them to do home work first, it looks to them as a process that you try to put on them. however you might want to frame it as a 'your grand child needs top home work done so it can get into the best school ever, bla bla' and they might get the point.


which brings me to my final point: sit down with your husband and list down all the things you don't like about them. then suggest which ones you both together (not you alone) suck up, and which ones you really want to do something about it. then ask him (since it's his culture) on how to do the fighting. you need him to tell you since you have no idea how his culture works really

It is not trivial.


First of all, dont buy into "its the Chinese way, accept it or you are disrespectful".


That old chestnut is rolled out always against foreigners as a general cover in an attempt to overlook unacceptable.behaviour under the guise of "culture".


It is so funny how one person will say what they are doing is Chinese way whilst another does the exact opposite and says it is the Chinese way. Frankly, people just make stuff as they go and make that excuse to try and trick you into not challenging them.


And weak kids with dominant parents will say to their spouse to pit up with someth ing because it is culture, with the closer that if you dont suck it up you are disrespecting their parents, knowing that in your culture respecting elders is important and that gels it together. Look up gaslighting, as this what that scam is based upon but you are too smart for that rubbish.


Just ask some other local friends if using you to dump theftovers onto you and pretend they bought it for you is Chinese culture, and you will get laugh.


Anyhow, enough of that point, but it really is just a neat little trick used on foreigners in a country where you are a collective 5% minority.


Now, you have to get your husband to grow up and.even if he is too spineless to stand up to his parents, he must accept they are set in their ways and cant be changed, and admit that "culture" thing is just a cheap excuse. He must stop his lies or you are on your own which is too hard. When he married you he knew you werent.some ignorant fool. He would think you were a fool if you believed other peoples BS, so why should you suddenly be so gullible for his parents BS?


Regarding them short circuiting your parenting, sorry, but that is total disrespect to you. And undermining your authority as the parent by saying Mommy wants you to do homework but we are doing icecream instead.


Instant gratification consumer shopaholic influence will mess with your kids upbrining.


The kids arent.their play things. Easy to load.them up on sugar and no homework and send them back to you. No responsibility


Your inlaws are.selfish, self indulged and manipulative people. They do not.respect you as.the parent. And your husband is too scared to stand up against them.


Well, if he is too spineless pretty difficult to change.that now. But why not tell him you know.it is difficult.to stand up to them, but:


1. Stop being a liar because it losing your respect

2. Stop trying to justify their selfish behaviour as Chinese culture cos you and him both know that is a load of rubbish and is degrading to Chinese people.who arent like that.

3. Tell him you will suck it up a bit, but he has to support you and throw that trash out.

4. And.most importantly, YOU are the mother, they have had.their chance, and you wont accept the inlaws undermining you.


So, you may have to pretend a bit and humor them, but your husband has to back you up, or whats the point of even being in HK eh?

Thanks for the really insightful comments. The problem with me, is that all my work colleagues that I am close to are all expats so pretty much have the same visceral reaction to what goes down with my in-laws that I have. I do supervise a large team of locals but because I don't speak Chinese, I pretty much do not socialise with them as although they will take instructions in English from me, they would always chat to each other/socialise in Chinese. In this way I don't really have a lot of prespective re: local culture.


Thanks Maxis and Malka, I also think I have a looming problem on my hands that will probably get bigger if I don't deal with it. I disagree with cookie09 that it is a minor issue, but I do appreciate cookie09's tips on how to handle it. For the most part I am happy to let lots of small things slide but I do feel that once you let too much slide, it moves into larger things.


I'm surprised at how from just a short post some of you were able to get the ' weak kids with dominant parents' scenario, because that is what is at play in my household. I think my husband was pretty spineless but has slowly found his spine. His problem is that as he has tried to assert his/his parents call 'my' independence - they have escalated their behaviour and gone 'all in' to try to get ?him/?me under control. I'll elaborate with cases.


1. In terms of the stuff they don't want which is passed to us, it is not like we reject everything. We just want 'right of refusal', for want of a better way to phrase this. When they have strawberries, dried persimmons (my husband loves them), frozen prawns, we happily take them and thank them genuinely, and tell them how yummy the items were. Plenty of times in the past, they have forced us to take stuff we have said no to and I let it slide. But when they pass us weird and frankly, quite disgusting mooncakes full of nuts (and I'm talking about receiving something like 6 boxes of them) and we just say, look we're not into mooncakes, we'll take one box out of politeness but say politely 'please keep these delicious numbers for yourselves to enjoy'. All the while I have to put up with their yammering on about 'how expensive, exclusive the mooncakes from the Mandarin Oriental are' 'poor people don't get to eat this' Even my husband tells me his parents do not eat the nut moon cakes. This one box I gave to my helper who wanted to take them to church to share with her friends. However unknown to me, my MIL dropped the other 5 boxes of mooncakes to my home whilst I was at work, telling the maid 'PUT THEM IN THE PANTRY' when my helper (who is quite empowered) told her that we don't eat mooncakes. When my helper told me the mooncakes were in the pantry, I picked them up and had hubby bring them personally back to his parents, reminding them very politely that we'd already indicated we didn't want these mooncakes. My husband avoids confrontations like the plague, and this triggered an epic meltdown from his parents. Hubby was told I was ill bred, mother didn't raise me right, I've no respect for my elders blah, blah, blah. My husband explained to them very meekly that he hoped that we could have a more honest relationship, i.e. if we want stuff they have on offer we'd take it, but if we don't then no offense intended. They were having none of that. After another few rounds of returns with other food stuffs, now my FIL tells me with great relish, that he and MIL throw 100% of what they don't want away, strawberries, lycees, biscuits, prawns, photos of the kids ha! I obviously think he is quite the manipulator, and have told hubby that I think he uses this 'Chinese culture' line and 'I'm 70, I only have 10 years left to live, let me die in peace son, then you can do whatever you like'


2. Regarding the home work thing, my in laws know how to say the right thing i.e we respect education, we want the children to do well ect ect. but I guess they would prefer to be the 'hero' when it comes to our children, with unlimited ice-creams, sweets, toys ect rather than be the 'bad guy' and enforce the guidelines we have set down about how we want out children raised. And FYI my husband and I live those rules ourselves, we are not asking in laws to do anything we don't practice in our home. In terms of the homework thing, we could tell something was happening on the Mondays when the children went to in laws place as home work was never done and come Tuesday, serious attitude was to be had by the helper when the worksheet was brought out ( I am still at work when she gets home from school and the worksheet takes under 5 mins of colouring, circling things) but by Wednesday everything goes back to normal. Fridays were okay because there is no expectation that in laws will need to do homework with my daughter. We went over and talked rationally with the in laws, telling them 'we are in it together, we need your help to help our daughter excel academically' They were very polite at the meeting and agreed with everything we said. I thought it was a useful and pleasant exchange. Then later that evening his parents called him over and unloaded on him. His father told him that he thought it was completely offensive that I would come into his home and tell him what to do. He told my hubby that he thought I was suprressing my daughter as a person, and that my hubby needed to be careful my daughter didn't turn out to be a 'robot'. He used those words. My MIL also had a fit, going on and on that it was not her job to make my daughter get good grades and that she wasn't going to be blamed when things went U shaped. I let this go for a few more weeks, gently reminding the in laws to do homework as top priority after school then playtime/whatever can go on afterwards and nothing changed. So I did something about it. I took half day leave from my work. Timed it for when my daughter would get to in laws home. After 1/2 hour in the house I called them up and asked them whether I could come over. Obviously at that point in time they have tried to make her do her homework pronto and after 2 minutes I arrived to hear my daughter screeching and crying "i'm not done playing, I don't want to do my homework, I don't like it' ect ect. I took her downstairs into the car for a 5 minute timeout. Then my daughter agreed to come back up, do her worksheet and then play. Then I had a serious talk with the inlaws, telling them this agree to my face and then do whatever they feel like it behind my back is not going to wash. Needless to say it solved the problem but didn't win me any friends, as now my daughter does her worksheets first religiously but tis done with a lot of backchat against me 'your mother wants you to do homework but we want to give you ice cream'.


3. The thing with all the gifts, I am happy to throw them all away and move on. It's bad for the environment and a total waste but it is what it is, but the issue is my MIL flagellates herself when we are out at lunch' where are those xyz clips I bought for my grand daughter, why does she never wear anything I buy her' ' where is that toy I got you (daughter will say don't know), how come your mum throws away everything I give you children'. Moreover, after giving us the stuff she bought for the children and the leftover stuff from their home, they expect over effusive thank you, kow tows, like really 'on your knees, you're the messiah thank yous'. I'm just not that type of person, I think being genuine is vastly more important and a heartfelt thank you worth 1000 fakes on my knees ones. I just can't do what they want.


I honestly believe I have my husband's back up, and he has really cleaned up the lying to save his skin in a tight situation. And we are actually happy with our lives here when we don't have to deal with the inlaws. The children are thriving, we have formed a tight circle of friends, the city is fun and work is satisfying. Malka I don't want to have too much to do with the inlaws but my husband has a say in this as well, and what we have today is his base minimum.

Funnily enough, once I was having a really bad day at work and I was sick, and feeling pretty terrible. I bumped into some people we knew when out to lunch with in laws and was asked how I was, and I replied ' yeah, pretty good' ect, my MIL took my hubby aside and said 'look there, she lies too'......I mean seriously.

Tiltil,


Good to hear your husband has remembered.he isnt a jellyfish and has a backbone.


Your MIL is a spoilt nasty and selfish and manipulative b*tch to be sure.


Your in laws it seems are likely to be really quite wealthy, and whilst not a crime in itself (depending upon how it was accumulated) you are hooked into a family who do see themselves and their opinions as really very important. Wealthy people are never wrong about what they should be doing. Just ask them.


Well, at least you have the base line established.


Remember it isnt Chinese culture, it is pig headed people.with an overly.inflated sense of self importance and entitlement.


That psycho manipulation of.MIL is sick and.evil. How dare she try and bad mouth you to your daughter to try and make themselves gain favour.


Stupid people think it is a zero sum game, and for them to be liked more.by your daughter, instead of improving themselves in your daughters eyes and.lifting their game, it is easier just to stay the same and.degrade you to make themselves.look better.


I wonder if your daughter is the first grandchild?

when life throws you a lemon, make lemonade


you are never going to stop this behaviour because its not about gifts but about control, only your children can stop it


so the best thing to do is to turn the situation into your advantage


as any parent I am sure you want to teach your children the rights things in life, so I suggest you look upon your MIL's misplaced generosity as a learning opportunity for the children, how???


well how about first checking with your children that they too think these gifts are excessive, if not that's the first lesson to teach them


next, then set up a routine or charity where the children play an active part in accumulating and distributing such gifts to those less fortunate such as charities for the poor etc. Get the kids involved in this and make it their choice. This will soon put a stop to the giving when the IL's realise they are actually buying for others!


next, hubby is caught beterrn a rock and a hard place, make life easy for him by suggesting to hubby you want to return the family to wherever you came from as you think the upbringing environment is more healthy for children


don't make a big deal of it but be serious and thoughtful and discuss it frequently, BUT never make it about the ILs, and word will soon get out about this and trust me, the change will happen


basically you need to decide whether you want to be in control or let them control the situation, its war, but one that requires smarts and not fighting!

I think getting the children into recycling all the stuff from grandparents is a great idea. It solves two problems in a healthy sort of way.


Maxis my daughter is not the first grandchild. The in laws have another 2 older ones by their daughter. I have quite a good relationship with SIL, which is where the confusion about Chinese culture ect springs from. She does seem to act as if her parents are always right. She hangs out with them on a daily basis, always takes loads of calls from them and has superficially a 'good' relationship with them, but I feel there is not warmth. She's a quiet and polite person, and from what I've seen gives her parents lip service but then may do something entirely different when they are not around. My inlaws don't seem overly focused on her and her husband, more on my hubby and I've always wondered if it's because it's a son thing (but have never clarified this).


zero sum game is correct, it's kind of like 'you are wrong and I am always right' and anything else is disrespect. Thing is I have great parents, I respect them a great deal, we go on a once a year short trip with them which the children and I really enjoy, and they are quite wealthy but normal people. I just don't get what I am up against here.


At the end of the day, I just want to try and work our whether I should hold my line, or pretty much do as the Chinese do, and play act at everything being roses, so that it looks to others that everything is perfect whilst if you delve below the wafer thin facade it's not (and this requires being two faced). It's a hard one I admit, for me but for my husband also.


I would appreciate some local Chinese to throw perspective on this issue if possible too.

First of all- you are the mother, and I support you.


You are the mother. In Chinese or any other culture, you are in charge of the family and you make the rules for the children.


When your MIL breaks any of your rules, she is testing the waters because she would like to take over.


Here are some rules to live by:


1) Just throw out gifts that you don't want (ther presents include a fruit basket with the best fruit already removed) and forget about them. Say thanks but don't be weird about it. If they want to givesh*tty gifts, it looks bad on them. Quality, not quantity. ESPECIALLY FOR CHINESE. Their problems have nothing to do with being Chinese or not.....they are obviously into quantity over quality, which is trashy, no matter where you come from.


2) You gotta get control over this situation or your children will turn out just as trashy as the MIL. I would say prioritise education...more than you have been doing to this point. Kick it up to the next level. Say you are not happy. (Be nice to the kids about it). Say that you are taking responsibility and emply TUTORS (good ones) to work side-by-side with the kids right after school. This will get rid of the trashy MIL.


3) Chat with your husband. Make a very short list of non-negotiables, like literally 3 points long, and tell him if they are beached that you will bring in emergency measures, but let everything else go, such as the crappy fruit basket and the back-stabbing.


This is a very straight-forward problem that happens in all cultures. My friend Eric is currently struggling with this in Canada. The MIL is attempting to hijack the household and the children because she has nothing else to do- no significant hobbies, etc. The reason she has no life is because she is actually trash. Be vigilent.

I really don't know any Chinese who don't prioritize education. It seems to me they would emphasize homework over play.


In a traditional Chinese sense, you married into the man's family. In historical China, you would all be living under the same roof and that influence would be daily. Therefore, she expects to be respected. Her perception is you don't respect her. This is despite the fact she is wrong on various things such as education.


Why not just give all the extra food and trinkets to the helper? She can share them with her frenz. She or her frenz may have kids who could use them as well.

Why don't you collect all these tidbits and at the end of the year, involve you MILs make a Box of Hope when they are collecting it and donate it? ( it goes to the children who can't receive presents even once in their childhood)


And why not talk to some of your local collegues on their strategies on coping with their MIL?


It's not just a Chinese thing, I think it's old school Asian parents mentality. I do understand your frustration and wanting to change it but, it's going to be a tough one as you're trying to change a person's mind who has more than 60 years of living in her own way.


Moon cake, hand out to bus mother, bus driver, management in your compound?



I do understand the frustration that they are overruling your decision as a mother. Why not make sure that your child understands that they have to do what they have to do first.


I think in Asia, grandparents are suppose to be there to spoil the grandchild. I feel that it's changing talking with the 20 something generation (in English) but, what has been said on is quite difficult to change overnight.

You could always post unwanted things here: http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/classifieds/free/

I was going to agree that it's an Asian thing but then I remember the latino communities in the US, for example, where the hispanic families have dominant parents overseeing the clan. Similar to the italians, I think or even the greeks if that movie is to be believed.

I guess it's harder for you because of the mixed marriage. But from what I hear it's really a matter of manipulative in laws.

I would start out by lessening the days spent with them. I'm sure you have a weekly sunday lunch or dinner with them. But Mon-Thurs, let's say, they should just be home doing school work and after school activities that you have scheduled. And that is the other thing, I would suggest a schedule, a routine set by you that allocates an amount of time with the grandparents but is largely for the development of the kids and for time spent with the nuclear family. So, if your grandparents want to spend more than the allocated time, then they need to work it out with you.

the guilt trip works both ways too. So you can say that the kids need to complete something otherwise they will get into trouble at school. Or that the kids are tired from activities and need to sleep by their bedtime ( I suppose being small kids they do have an early bedtime around 8pm or so). Or that the kids need to spend time with you, their parents, who have missed them since you and your husband were away at work the whole day.

I would try and accept most gifts and simply donate it to charity after having your kids decide which ones they want to keep, based on a maximum limit you set. Perhaps you say only 10 stuffed dolls because of space constraints or that it accumulates dust. Same goes with dresses or shoes. So your kids know and have a hand in deciding for themselves and are able to donate the rest. But, once in a while, I would have them wear the dress (unless it dreadful) that was given to them for a meal so the grandparents can see it after which give it away.

I have tried many ways in which to accomodate my in laws need but I find their ways and methods dishonest/two faced, and don't want to walk that path myself. They keep telling me (through my husband) that they do not tell lies but that EVERYONE in Hong Kong lies, and this is not really lying. I looked up several articles from China to see whether this was true, and try to understand them and it seems, that lying is not lying amongst the Chinese because everyone knows they are doing it, and you just read between the lines.....huh???????


http://www.chinalawblog.com/2010/12/china_business_it_helps_to_know_the_culture_part_iii_stereotypes_as_excess_baggageethical_gray_zone.html


http://www.china-mike.com/chinese-culture/understanding-chinese-mind/cult-of-face/


I think I am an honest person for the most part. I think I try to be kind when dealing with my in laws because I care about my husband and I don't want him to have a hard time because of me. But it feels as if I keep going the way his parents want me to, then I'll seriously lose my way and my integrity.


In terms of the things given to our family by the inlaws, when my daughter received a dress foer her birthday from them, we happily accepted and she wears this often aorund them and also when they are not around. I completely resent playing along with their charade about 'loving' all the rubbish they buy or leftovers they offload to us, and putting on my sunshine sparkle to tell them how 'they are the best parents in the world' (yes I can't even say in law in front of them they expect me to call them mum and dad :() "that they have exquisite taste" "That there are no better parents than them". These things are hard for me to say as firstly they most certainly are not great parents, and probably not even good parents. Secondly, as per Ms Jones comment, I can say thank you to them and not be weird about it, but they want more - ALOT MORE, they want a whole lot of 'you're the best....." "no one better than you" which is how hubby and SIL communicate with them. And this is ALL THE TIME. In temrs of what other posters have said, look I would happily take all their 'gifts/leftovers' and give it all away to charity or to my helpers BUT it doesn't solve the problem of the interrogation that follows 'was the xyz delcious, best in the world ect ect" as well as the excessive effusive thank you and hullelujah that must be accorded to them for each and every gift.


My husband has told me he totally hates the way he has to talk to his parents, and feels angry about it, but for him there is no choice. I told him, that is him and I am me, and that I just can't bring myself to perform like that (makes me want to throw up when I've tried to do it a few times) at so regular an interval (weekly).


Xshoequeen, I don't have any good local friends. I would not be comfortable talking to the locals at work about something that is so personal to me. I have tried to get to know some of the people at work who are not expats, and they don't seem to really understand it when I crack jokes ect and we have no chemistry. So unless you have that sort of depth to the relationship, I don't think it would be reasonable to canvass opinions as to what I might do from them.


LMJAAZ said in a traditional Chinese sense, you married into the man's family. In historical China, you would all be living under the same roof and that influence would be daily. Well it's not historical China, and my husband's family don't support me, my husband and my children. We don't take any money from them but of course they insist on paying for the lunches during the family gatherings but then complain to my husband behind my back that I am not grateful enough for the lunches 'because not everyone gets to eat in these types of restaurants' . Like seriously....


They get angry, very angry in fact when we want to go away on our action vacations like cycling through Europe, museum hopping in New York. We went with them once on a trip and they spent the whole time b#tching about how it was so hot, the public transport so smelly, how far it was to walk and then kept interjecting about how we should hire a private car blah blah blah and they would be the gracious ones to pay. That holiday was our treat to them, but it was an awful, awful experience for me. My husband said that he felt that the performacne was 'not bad' for them given what he knows of their behaviour. They complained at the airport on our way home that we should have let them take us all to Club Med in Asia somewhere (on their dime they reminded me) and thanked my husband but not me for the vacation. I was done with vacationing together. I get very little time off from work as it is per year and I don't wish to spend it in such a way.


I want to see the inlaws less. In fact I don't want to see them at all, if the truth be known. And for a time I didn't see them for around 2 months (kids and hubby went but not me) but they really tortured my husband and he begged me to start going again. So I do the minimum that my husband and I have negotiated and that is once a week. I travel a bit for work so occasionally I am not here for the lunches anyway.


My children are little and I am terrified they will turn out to be like my inlaws. I limit their influence as much as I can, but again 2 days a week is what my husbadn asks of me, but he agrees to cut it down to a day a week plus lunch when they get a bit older because of home work.


I tell myself there must have been something good in them to raise a lovely man like my husband but its hard for me to see.


I'm starting to see that perhaps what I am dealing with is what Maxis aptly phrased 'pig headed people.with an overly.inflated sense of self importance and entitlement.' and they just use this respect your elders/Chinese culture line to try and beat me into submission.

I think you are determined in what you want to achieve here and it is totally understandable.


Although, for some reason, I feel that this has started to really effect your stay in HK and your marriage. I myself is in an inter racial marriage with small children but, what I have learnt over the years is that " zoning out" and "slapping on gratefulness" will never do harm.


I agree that this is in many ways being fake but, when you are in such different upbringings, you have to reset your expectations from the other party or every single thing will drive you nuts!!!!!

Well Tiltil, it is good your husband is essentially on side. Some kids are smart enough to take the good characteristics their patents have and leave behind the bad. Thats probably what your husband did.


My sister was in a similar situation as you, a degree of cross culture but not that much. It was very difficult for her husband too.


She used to zone out and.smile and make.herself.as busy as possible, but the MILFH, which is MIL from hell, not to be confused with the acronym MILF which is an entirely different topic, still used to bait her subtly and make her boil over almost inside. Sadly, after years of manipulation by the MILFH my BIL became like her....


Xshoequeen is right it seems, this has started to impact on your general happiness kn HK unfortunately.


There is give and take, and.one can suck it up if it is 70/30 perhaps, maybe 99/1 if itwas minimal contact. But in your case it is 100/0 and.frequently which is unsustainable.


We know.they say about that culture respect.your patents etc. To suggest that Chinese have the monopoly on that is a bit rich. By contrast, westerners have respect your parents and respect.your kids as.adults and.respect the man on the Clapping omnibus too, so it is a little more expansive which provides balance.


That self-gratifying "oh you are the bestest parents, better than my own, and.the best that ever walked the face.of.the earth, and I love getting your looted fruit baskets so much" thing makes one want to spew. Kind of.reinforces how.nice your parents are doesnt it eh?


Remember, your MILFH feels great, she doesnt shed a moments thought about how you feel, she has got way too much time and influence.over.your kids at.th8s stage. By contrast, you are the only.one.who is.losing sleep over.this issue. It.is.so.obvious she is messing up a perfectly happy little family and.causing you so much anxiety.


Just.dont start.to think.those people.are.normal - they are not.


What to do.....?. Unfortunately.your SIL is.too weak to help you. And.you cant gel with any local ladies. Really difficult. Its a pity FIL isnt balanced in the.head properlyor.he could.be a voice.of.reason.


Does your FIL.have an older brother who isnt of their.ilk? If so, start at.the top of their little food chain.and get him.to help.


You will probably need.marriage guidance.counselling sooner or.later for both you and your husband though.

Take the free goods and sell them on eBay. You have zero cost inventory with 100% profit margin except for storage. Creates a win-win situation. Also do some brown nosing and dote them. They see you as that ungrateful Gweipo who took away their son. So if you get on board and give them some face you will be OK.

Thanks maxis and xshoequeen. I don't want this to effect my marriage but in truth my husband and I seldom argue but we always argue about his parents. Yes I am blessed that my folks aren't nasty, manipulative people too. When I confide in my mum and sister, they tell me to just come home but it's not as stright forward as that, and although we will return one day, its just not going to be for the next few years whilst my hubby and I are building our careers. My career has fourished since I have been here, and its a satisfying place to be. My children are also learnin the language and given their mixed heritage that's important too.


It's hard to listen to my in laws bash my culture, and to have to put on a bright and happy face. They think the Chinese have a monopoly on respect for the elderly, marriages, saving money ect ect. The frequently point out and malign the high divorce rates in the West (but won't accept it when I point out that personal happiness in the West is probably given a higher priority than financial security - I mean I know a tonne of their circle who the husband has had or is still having a bit on the side and the wife is perfectly happy with it as long as she remains the wife and she is kept in the manner $$$ she has been accustomed to). I also see loads of my friends parents back home who care for their elderly, and note that both my inlaws put their mums in nursing home (they call it luxury accomodation) towards the end of their life so ?huh. I also have loads of expat friends who have a tonne of savings, so not all westerners are 'champagne tastes on a beer wage'


I want to zone out and smile and make myself as busy as possible (feed my children/play with them)which is what I do at these lunches, but my MIL and FIL will just harrass the sh#t out of me 'so how was xyz's birthday' 'good'(my reply) 'just good? Just good? what do you mean' "how many people came' 'I 'm not sure'(my reply) 'like 40/60/80/100?''was mr important ABC there for his grandchild' 'um yes'(my reply)''did he stay for the whole thing?' blah blah blah. My husband tried to answer for me, but it creates a strange atmosphere.


Moreover when they make snide comments about my parents it's hard to be normal. Like my mum does this thing where she checks the price of cosmetics at the airport and then at Sasa cosmetics, and she would say over this lunch/dinner to inlaws/me/husband, I'm going to get cosmetics from sasa as its a little bit cheaper (in the past, my in laws would insist they 'treat' my parents to lunch/dinner every time they come to HK, now we don't tell the inalws when they come because my parents find them unpleasant to be around) and my MIL would go off in the car after my parents had left that caucasians have to count every little penny ect ect even when buying a perfume ect and then laugh about it. The do this sly thing by implying something ?what about my parents for only travelling business class when they can upgrade with points ect ect. My parents are actually quite wealthy and I would know, but they are quiet people living quie lives. I have no idea if my inlaws are wealthy or not because they don't live in a big flat/don't drive a rolls royce/don't fly first class, in fact they live in accomodation on the same level as my expat friends and our family. So don't understand where they get off on saying this type of stuff.


The rubbish they pass to us, yes I've made my peace and will just get rid of it all but I don't think this stuff is ebayable! How I wish!


Yes I think I need to just readjust my expectations as to what I can expect from my inlaws, and try to totally zone out when I am around them.


Maxis in the end did you sister and BIL come through ok with their marriage?

I think my MIL is a nasty peice of work but my FIL is the one in control behind the scenes and MIL is his henchman. It is he who drives the expectation for the regular lunches, grandchildren needing to come by and stay at their home, the need for control over his son and his family. There is also no one I can leverage to influence my in laws, all cut from the same cloth I am afraid. Also they would have a fit if I dared to let others know I was not happy or the situation not picture perfect.

Have you considered bonding more with your in laws by doing a one on one or two lunch with them? Maybe you need to reset your relationship with them? The onus is on you. Initiate afternoon tea to have a chat with them so they can learn more about you and vice versa? Some random thoughts include your children's academics are a priority as they are starting off on the wrong foot, most parents are self sacrificing and would give the best things to their children and keep lesser things for themselves. They are contrary to the norm as leave the crumbs for your family. Not that you expect anything but that strikes me as odd. They also seem like very insecure people despite their bold behavior. Maybe that's the root cause for their actions? Maybe you van have high tea with them at a 5 star hotel.

Those that are suggesting the hardline approach, i don't think this will go down well, the only outcome is they will completely cut you off and then you'll have to put up with your nagging wife even more.


It's best to be smart and avoid confrontation when it comes to family as it gets too personal, best way is through damage control, just slowly reduce the frequency of the gatherings and avoid joining, why create a massive family feud over an occasional dinner bill? It's not like you are financially supporting them aswell. None of the family members will suddenly respect you for standing up for yourself and being confrontation, instead they will all think you are being disrespectful through such actions.


Yes the family members are greedy pricks, but at the end of the day, they are still family and you have to be smart about how you handle things, instead of going in all guns blazing.

MJ1, seem you may have intended to post on the "Dinner Bill" thread:


http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/marriage-relationships/threads/154547/dinner-bill/


This is the one where the husbands family over control the wife TilTil and dump their food waste and leftovers on TilTil and expect her to give over not just her first-born in undying appreciation and respect.

Yes, sorry my bad.

https://youtu.be/cuCOUn7zNB0?si=NCRnOFkX5K2Dv00Z

LMJAAZ that youtube video is hilarious, easily one of the funniest tube videos I have watched in a long time. Crazy accurate how the non English speaking parent says something not very nice and the child translates it 'lite'


As usual, maxis summarised it best

This is the one where the husbands family over control the wife TilTil and dump their food waste and leftovers on TilTil and expect her to give over not just her first-born in undying appreciation and respect.

Broke into a fit of giggles as it was so ridiculous, but hey it pays to have a sense of humor!

thanks all for your insights

survival = need to become an armadillo long term and maintain a sense of humour!

Have read this thread with interest. Suggest you put out a call for others who are in a cross-cultural marriage, and get tips on how to deal with differences. However, the issue seems to be as much one of control. As you are the Mom, and I gather you employ a DH, you have options. Why don't you arrange for your kids to go to grandparents AFTER homework is done. You lay down the law by your actions, as words don't seem to be heard. You could even clothe it in a mannerly way if you want, by using the children's growing and school needs as a natural progression. You have the right to set up their routine in their best interests, and grndparents could be scheduled in, and you could eliminate the homework tussle. This show your backbone about putting your kids' needs on top.



Regarding gifts, I know parents who explain to their children FIRST (get their agreement and understanding of the process), and then to any gift-givers, that all gifts go into a holding place, until a special occasion, such as birthday or Christmas, and then kids can choose some of them. The children look forward, they can choose what to share with others (charity or friends), and you have acted on sometinkg you cannot change, to make it under your own control. These ideas are creative solutions then, and win-win, rather than festering issues.


Lastly, how about YOU fighting fire with fire on the gift front. Take along some fresh flowers , candles, sweet treats when you go to your in-laws. All these items are disposable, so they can use them up, and not have to hang on to them. Maybe this might get them thinking about more appropriate gifts if they can't stop being consumers. It also might direct some of your frustration into a positive. Your kids might even bring along some home-made bread/cupcakes/drawings. Join them to beat them, so gratitude and thanks flow both ways, and your children see you acting with grace in an awkward situation.


one more---get your husband to keep on backing you. Be united in your parenting. It may bring out the best in 3 generations of your family. Flip the negatives into positives. These problems could happen in any family, not just crsos-cultural. Good luck. You are the one who can influence change.

First of all, I do understand this is difficult for you. I don't think it is easy for your husband neither.


At the end of the day, I do think it is about giving the kid a good set of values. I bet your in-law would agree the same.


My guess is that your in-laws is trying too hard to bride as they kind of lack a sense of security towards their grandson or maybe even you. When communication is tricky, giving present can be an easy way out to win hearts. Plus, grand parents always have a tendency to spoil.


My suggestion is to talk to your husband and ask him to politely explain to in-laws that children having too many stuff can be a curse instead of blessing. The kid will not cherish things at all.


While explaining this, I would suggestion you invite your in law to come for dinner or get together more often. I am not saying you should adapt to your in-laws value. Instead, I hope you can create more chance for them to get to know yours better.


Ice breaking takes time and effort. In laws is never easy to handle but if handled well, it can be a great blessing. (Somehow, kids do look at how we get along with our folks/in-laws. This is all part of their value development.)

OP, I am Chinese (overseas-born and raised) and also have the MIL from hell, so you have my full sympathies. In fact, I think yours is even worse than mine! Anyway I just want to say that no, this is not Chinese culture and you don't have to stand for it. For those who advocate peace measures, I think the time for that has passed and anything conciliatory you do now may well be construed as weakness or passivity and may just encourage your in-laws do cross the line even more and become more overbearing!


Personally these are some things I have done which have made life more bearable:

1) Don't confront your MIL head-on. It does no good and just adds fuel to fire. Withdraw from their presence as much as possible. For me, I've stopped visiting my MIL home and see her only at family dinners outside. For your children, I would reduce the visits and if possible, have them finish their homework first before going to their grandparents. (I never stop my husband from visiting his folks as it's his parents but I elect not the join him and will stay home.)


2) Let your MIL know that her gifts are going to your helper and your helper's friends. If she is traditionally Chinese, she will hate that.


Yes, these tactics are not nice but neither are your in-laws. Good luck!!

Gifts/Presents: You just donate to the needy. Don't throw. You can put them in a collection place. You can see this in some areas, depends on where you live or you can give it to orphans or some government center for their training purposes use.