What are the magic buttons for a HK woman?

This topic has probably been beaten to death, but in my case, it might be just a little unusual.


I am dating a 40 something Hong Kong girl who lives in HK. She is a strong, very intelligent, very independent and quite beautiful. I am also 40 something but live in the USA. I come to HK 4 or 5 times a year for business. I met this girl through work. Actually, we knew each other for several years before anything happened. Then one night, we hooked up. OK, just a nice fling, I thought. We really did not correspond outside of business. Then she came to the USA for a biz trip and I arranged to meet her. Once again, we hooked up. You know, the hot steamy kind. That started the e-mail relationship. Still, it is more like a fling than a relationship, which was fine. Then, a few months later, I came to HK and we went away for a long weekend together. Very, very nice ! After that, we are trading e-mails almost everyday. I am starting to feel like I want less of a fling and more of a genuine relationship. Based on her e-mails, it seems like she might be getting hooked on me as well. But then, a few weeks after the weekend together, her e-mails cool off, but they still come daily.


I came back to HK a few months after that. Again, we take a long weekend together. Again, we had a fabulous time. The same pattern continued. Hot and heavy e-mails for a few weeks after our weekend, then it cools off. By now, I realize I am truly hooked on this girl.


Just a few weeks ago, I arranged for us to meet for 4 days in Paris. Obviously, I am throwing everything I have at her to win her affections on a more permanent level, but I'm definitely not pushy about it. Needless to say, we had a fantastic time together. I also opened up to her about how I truly feel. I can't say I was rejected ( this was the first time she said those three magic words to me ) but I can't say I have made any progress. I can't tell if she is unwilling to take the next step because she is so damn practical and level headed. ( You know, the changes in our lives that would occur if we did become a couple and the obstacles we would have to overcome) Or, if she is just interested in a non committal fling like we currently enjoy. Either way, I don't want to risk the relationship.


After that long disseration, my question is this. What magic buttons can I try pushing with this woman? I am willing to acknowledge that there may be a cultural misconnect. What do strong, independent women in HK want to hear or do? I have been open and honest about my feelings, but I have not been clingy or needy. I know that she has some kind of feelings for me because we are meeting again in a few weeks. Knowing ths woman, I have to believe that she would have cut this off by now if she did not want it to go any further. Are there any suggestions that you ladies of HK can provide that might tip the balance in my favor? This woman does not know it yet, but I am prepared to do what is necessary to spend the rest of my life with her. I just don't want to step in the sh*t along the way and screw this up.


Any advice?

Thanks for the input. I certainly plan to continue what I am doing. I have tried to delicately extract from her how she feels about the current situation. The most that she will confide is that she is aware of how I feel, which leaves so much open to interpretation that I am driving myself crazy trying to understand what her true feelings are. I realize that the problem is mine. I am just looking for any advice that might help me bridge any cultural gaps that I am not aware of. She has mentioned that one of the obstacles she thinks about is family. Is it common for HK Chinese families to be upset about their daughther having a relationship with a western?

Thanks, FOTH. No need to mince words, is there? Yes, I have money. And she knows it. And honestly, up to this point, she seems not to care about money, although flying her first class to Europe did not suck.


Nemesis, your feedback was much more constructive. Thank you ! Yes, it is her independence that may be driving her to this point. And yes, I am willing to move to HK. I am quite familiar with HK and I think I could learn to be very happy there. I would also accept us spiltting time between the US and HK. While we have not discussed "where to live", I have told her that the things I love most about her are her independence and courage and I would never want to change that about her.


I agree that it is unclear what she means about family. And I understand the potential excitement her parents would feel if she would find marriage at this time in her life. And yes, I believe her family is dependant on her financially. I have not expressed it to her, but I am willing to help support her family, too. We just haven't gotten that far in our conversations. I keep getting the feeling that she thinks there are too many obstacles to overcome, so why discuss any of them.


It is funny that you say I should have a plan ready. Ever the compulsive, I have started a document that is entitled " Operation Happily Ever After". It lists the pros and the cons, what I am willing to do, etc. She is reluctant to have serious discussions via e-mail or phone and I agree with this attitude wholeheartedly. There are some things that must be done in person, and this is one of them. She has already agreed to discuss the dreaded "obstacles" when we meet again in a few weeks. It is then that I will break out "Operation Happily Ever After". Is there a good way to approach the dependant family issue? I do not want to upset or offend while making this offer.

Dandyrandy - what really gets me is this "strong independent woman' thing. We all have to be strong in many areas of our lives, this doesn't mean that when it comes down to personal issues we are that same strong person. When it's personal everyone is susceptible to being vulnerable.

Another annoying truth I have found in this life is "treat them mean to keep them keen" and harrowingly enough it seems to be true. You sound like one of the few decent ones who actually believe they can commit to a woman, don't spoil it by becoming a lapdog for her to trample on. She won't mean to but c'est la vie!! I agree with the wise words of JC - if it's good at the moment then 'don't try to fix what's not broken!! (God, I'm sounding like my granny...cliche queen!)

Good luck for the next few weeks :)

This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. Thank you to all.


helenann - I am not really sure if you should look at it as me giving her all of these things. Only the trip to Paris has been over the top. All of the other getaways were close to HK ( Macau, Hainan, Mission Hills in Shenzhen for spa stuff) Yes, I have paid for everything, but we are not talking about a large amount of money here. The birthday gifts we have exchanged have all been heartfelt, but not expensive.


Ultraseven- Yes, I am white. Can't do much about that. What are the issues I could be facing?


Justin C - I have been lurking around here for about a month, so I have a pretty good idea of Foth's point of view. And you are correct, we are both settled pretty well into our respective lives. We have not discussed where to live, except to state the obvious...it could be an obstacle. What she does not know is that I am very flexible on this issue. My 1st preference would be to split time between the US and HK. If that is not acceptable, I would move to HK. And to be honest, I am not sure she would rule out living in the US as long as there are frequent trips back to HK. One thing I know for sure...I want her to keep her flat, and keep it in her name only to preserve some of her independence. Like a security blanket.

Also, I think you read a little too much into my prepared plan. It really isn't a plan. Rather, it is a document that outlines the pros and cons, and possible solutions or alternatives. There is nothing concrete about it. Your advice regarding how to handle the parental responsibility is well noted. I like the idea of augmentation vs. depriving/relieving one of a responsibility.


I would normally agree with you. If it is not broken, why fix it? The relationship does seem to going well, but it is by no means exclusive. I am a realist. People have needs. And while I have noticed a decided lack of interest in other women, that does not mean she has a lack of interest in other men. Do not get me wrong, I would prefer an exclusive arrangement, but that is a tough sell if we only see each other 5 or 6 times a year. This is a topic we really have not discussed. I don't want to bring it up because I don't want to appear confining or controlling.


Nemesis - You are right, also. I do not want to scare her off, and I think I may have already put some fear into her already. I have backed off considerably on the commitment thing, and have kept things light, airy and funny. Occasionally, she will send me an x-rated e-mail ( which I love, for obvious reasons!), but she definitely avoids serious discussions via e-mail.

The only expensive gift I have given her is the trip to Europe and that was for her birthday. Nothing has been discussed about supporting her family, and no expensive gifts have been exchanged. If she is only after financial support that I can provide, she has done a marvelous job of concealing it over the past year.


During our trip to Paris, after we had a little too much wine, she confided in me about her family. Her mother and father rely on her for financial support. Apparently, things were very difficult when she was growing up. I do not know how much she supports them but I do know that there are two brothers in the family who may or may not be helping also.


I definitely do not want her to feel like she is giving up anything. But I also do not want her to think I am giving up anything, either. Most successful relationships are based on quid pro quo. If there is an uneven balance in money, sacrifice, physical love...the relationship is in deep trouble.


Lammasita - Your reply strikes closest to home. I have often thought that the shell the world sees on the outside does not reflect the person inside. The trick is getting her to let her guard down. I think (and maybe I hope) that the reason she is so evasive about the future is that she does not want to leave herself vulnerable. I hate the fact that you are right about the "mean to keep keen". This is where I have the most difficulty. I don't presume to be one of the "decent" blokes, but I find it very hard to be less than kind to someone I am nuts about. I will not allow myself to become a lapdog, but I think it is safe to say that she knows that she has a pretty good hold on my balls. I am constantly trying to figure out how I can get "hand" back ( This is for you Seinfeld fans), but it is not easy when you are so far away and you feel like you are walking on eggshells. But I know what you say is true. I must continue to be disciplined on these matters.

Hi Gatita,


Interesting thought. I wonder how likely that could be? I have expressed my love of her independence, courage and strength to her maybe 4 or 5 times in the past year. But I expressed these feelings to her so she would understand that I do not want to change her personality. But I see what you mean. Honestly, I think the probabilty of rejection is quite high. She is just so damned practical about most things. When I am lucky, I can get her to escape for just a few hours at a time, but she slips right back into her level headed self in a matter of minutes. Last week I tried to get a better feeling of how she felt about me or about us. This is exactly how I phrased the question. "For just a moment, ignore all of the obstacles we face. Do you like to think about us being together?" Guess what...no reply at all to that seemingly non binding question. It was completely ignored. It is a hypothetical question, for God's sake ! Any answer she might give will always have the caveat of the word "IF". Anyway, I need to give your comments some additional thought. There might be a nugget of truth.

Nemesis, it is a delicate line. Don't appear to be buying affection, yet at the same time, giving the person you love everything they want. Not an easy task. As for the quid pro quo thing, I did not mean it literally. It is just that both sides have to feel that they are giving and receiving what they need on an equitable basis. One person cannot give to much and the other cannot take too much. Your higher love concept is too lofty for this sot to accept. I am too selfish, but the reality is that there will come a point where I have to let go.


Orith, it is a hypothetical question in the sense that I am asking her to give me her thoughts based on a hypothetical situation. However, you are correct in assuming that it is not hypothetical for me. I have reached a point where I need to know how much to commit on an emotional level. Getting the response ( whether it is good or bad) has been quite challenging.


There is a part of me that thinks that if she does feel the same way that I do, I can show her all of the options and alternatives available to make the relationship more feasible in her own mind. I don't know that she has the trust in me to give me her true feelings. To be more precise, I am worried that she will tell me that she does not feel the same way just because it will make the entire issue go away. I hate to be c*cky about this, but I am a relatively good looking, fairly successful, delightfully charming kind of guy. Finding partners has not been an issue. Finding someone that I fall head over heels in love with has been a problem. Now I finally feel the spark and I can't get the response I want. This is the part of being in love that I absolutely hate!

Again, I am grateful for all of the input I have received. As you might guess, there is no one around me that can give me any insight in the Asian psyche.


Ultraseven- absolutely no offense was taken. And I hope my reply was not sarcastic. Being white cannot be changed. Other things, yes. But not my race. Having never seen this girl interact with her family, I have no idea of what kind of bonds they share. However, if I had to guess, I would say that she would like to have parental approval, but if she felt strongly enough about someone ( whether it is me or someone else) she would follow her own path. This is just a guess.


Tutti - Yes, I fully understand that my moving to HK could be a burden on her for exactly the reasons you pointed out. That is why my first preference would be to split time between the US and HK. At least in the beginning. That way, she is not ababdoning her family, friends and culture, she may even be able to keep her current job, and she would not feel "trapped" if things got difficult. However, there is no way I am moving to HK on the mere chance that we can be a couple. I would need some reassurances that if I made the move, we would definitely try to be a couple. If it does not work out, then so be it. There is no question that the distance between us now is making these discussions more difficult. And yes, it is quite possible that she has heard this story before. Can't tell you that I am any different than some of her past suitors.


I do not want to scare this girl. And I can assure you, the conversation will not come out of the blue. We are waiting until we are together again before discussing this topic. But I still need to be careful of not scaring her. All I can do is tell her how I feel and what I would like to see happen. Her potential responses are incalculable. She may feel the same way but unwilling to move. She may think of me as a guy she likes a lot and good for a shag here and there, she may have other issues that I am not even aware of. Perhaps another serious boyfriend that I do not know exists. For sure she is not sitting in her flat, celibate, awaiting my return. Maybe she has a fear of committing to one person? Heck, there are so many potential reasons, my over analyzing them is making me insane. My efforts here on this website were meant to prepare me for any Asian twists that I might not anticipate when we have this discussion. I guess I am looking for an "edge" before I have the talk with her.

JilloLatern, Yes those are daunting statistics that do not play in my favor, but strangely enough, the divorce rate for normal Americans is roughly the same ( 48%). And there is no guarantee that our relationship would not end in divorce, also. It would face more than the typical challenges of a marriage. But I am willing to give it a try if she is. Ys, I am desperate to have a more permanent relationship with this woman, but don't want to beg, cajole, and convince her into making the decision I want. She needs to have the feeling that she wants to spend the rest of her life with me. Once I know if she feels that way ( or not ) I will know how to proceed. I have received a lot of constructive comments on this board, many things I had not considered. Now all I can do is wait until we see each other again and see how the conversation goes. The time in between now and that meeting will be agonizingly long !

Sylph- I guess it is nice to know that other people are thinking like you do. It could explain a lot.


Julie12 - I can only hope my love feels similar to you. I have my doubts. I just went 5 days without hearing from her via e-mail or phone. It is very difficult to keep from picking up the phone and calling her. I hope the trust issue is related to other relationships and not to me. Either way, it will be difficult to handle. And thank you for the other cultural insights you provided. It will be interesting to find out what the obstacles may be.


Karenho- It is a fine balance between showing I care and looking like I care too much. And it is also difficult to impress upon her how I want her to maintain her independence, yet still open her self up to the love I want to give to her.


If I knew I was was a part of her, it would be much easier to relax and be natural. I hope you are right...that things will work out, but each day that passes, I become more insecure and more pessimistic. Of course, I can't let her know that, which is a shame.

Tutti - It is not just a thought. It is reality ! There is absolutely no question that I am overplaying this in my head. She is definitely aware of a change in the dynamic, but I do not think she has any idea to what degree it has changed. But that is OK. That is my problem and I will have to deal with it. Not one word is spoken or typed to her without review to make sure it is not too heavy, too sappy, too lovey dovey. You get the idea. I am censoring myself before I make a comment.


I just got off the phone with her. We finalized our plans for the next get together. While she knows that we will be having a discussion about our relationship at that time, she does not seem to be avoiding it, which she could easily do if she wanted to. Too be honest, I guarantee you that I am more nervous about it than she is. The trick will be getting all of my emotions under control so that I can have this discussion with her. This is all quite ironic. None of my friends or family would ever guess that I could be this wrapped up in a girl. Normally, the shoe is on the other foot. Ahhh...this dastardly thing called love.

OK, I am not asian, but my partner is.


He had the absolute best way to make me realise how strongly I felt (I had started to get scared off because he had made it clear how he felt) and I will share it with you. I am pretty sure it is foolproof for any woman.


He basically told me he was in love with me and that I was great...ra ra..it started as just a fling but he realised it was more than that..etc.


Then he said he did not want me to feel at all that I had to return the feelings and we could forget we ever spoke about it if I wasn't totally comfortable. That even if he saw me with other boyfriends later he would be OK with it but he just had to let me know his true feelings and that I was special (or something like that).


Basically he was much more eloquent than that but the msg was that he did not expect anything in return but felt at a point he needed to come clean with me, that he loved me more than anyone he had met, and would fit in wherever I wanted in future. As soon as I recognised he was releasing me (and women always feel obligated to return the emotion) BUT at the same time not trying to understate his feelings but really just express them the way they were I realised I loved him to bits.


I was speechless and could only say, actually I feel the same way....


From then, we just enjoyed our time together at the time, and somehow still do. That was 10 years ago, now we even have kids (who would have thought??)



And when you love someone, first you want them to be happy, whether with or without you.


Good Luck. I am sure she feels the same way but may need that teensy bit of space to know it is HER decision.

Thanks, Sub, for an excellent suggestion. Of course, it is really the only practical approach. I hope my outcome is similar to yours.

Although I applaud your bf having the courage to say that he would be all right if he saw you with other men, I guarantee you that he did not really feel that way. But it isn't always about what we feel. Sometimes, it is how we act despite our feelings that can make the difference.

I knew he didn't really mean that (that realisation may have come later) but gave him huge credit for trying to be that big a person, it was very endearing to me.


Just be true to yourself, then no matter the outcome you gave it your best shot.


Really, best of luck.