Posted by
lulu
18 yrs ago
Kfw> agreed, do not think any single women would go for a married man except ONS. but i think a lot of married men still want to have a chance to pick up women, therefore, they might put their ring away and BS they are single or seperating....
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knowfrickinway - "almost all women won't go with a married man if they know that he is married"
You mean almost all women with any self respect.
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The simple fact is that some owmne just don't care if a guy is married. They kid themselves into thinking that the guy loves them and that the wifelet is just a minor obstacle to their nooky.
Aijin, why do you pose this question? I thought you were the 'other woman' in a similar scenario.
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My question is: what happens when you want more? It sounds as if you loved this man. Did you never wish you were the one to have his children with, to grow old with?
Are you still in this arrangement?
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blaze
18 yrs ago
If you sell yourself short, why are you surprised when you don't get more? Sorry, no sympathies here.
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Aijin - why do you see yourself as any different to the women you are questioning? As 13th has said, you can romanticize your situation but it boils down to the same thing. So you had a couple of nice dinners, a few gifts and the wife's blessing - it doesn't change things.
Also, why are you concerned about the women in HK who do the same thing? Why does this bother you?
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blaze
18 yrs ago
Why do women knowingly get into affairs? Some do it for the money/lifestyle. Others are lonely and desperate, so they settle. And there are some who go into it for the fun but find it hard to get out afterwards. Few would intellectualise it and make it sound more acceptable though, with "the wife's blessing".
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Well I think Aijin has given the clue in one of her earlier posts - she sees herself as a concubine whereas the women who have casual sex with maried men are just slappers.
Delusions of grandeur me'thinks!
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One more thing - if Aijin is in HK, who is keeping her 'lover' warm at night?
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Sadly, I don't think she is.
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If Aijin is a writer she would know that "alot" is two words "a lot" (she's written it twice so it's not just a typo).
Sounds like she wants to know the "secret" to why women would sleep with married men here to be able to justify her next move...
After all she finds it easy to justify it in Japan.
A world-wide quest perhaps?
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"more easy to justify than in the West"? ask any cheated-on wife in the west if she feels that way.
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qtpie
18 yrs ago
13th - that is right - we now just have Ed instead
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Aijin: What's your current B/F thought on the subject ?
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blaze
18 yrs ago
I don't know which is sadder- the men who have affairs or the "concubines" who justify them.
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my thoughts exactly, blaze...
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I am a married man and with ease I can say I would love to have an affair. I know and see beautiful women every day that I f*ck for countless hours and bring pleasure to. On the other hand, I couldn't live with myself. I think cheating is an art and works for certain personalities that can seperate the moral and emotional dynamics that so many of us deal with. There are guys (I know a few) that have done this for years and live happily with their wives and girl freinds. This is finess that I don't have and but I don't particalrly judge anyone that lives this way. If everyones happy....
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Finesse? What a load of tripe!
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"cheating is an art" HA. there's the problem right there.
It's not an art and not something to be admired.
It is a sign of an extremely weak character. "Just because it's there and it's offered" is also CRAP. Just because dessert is there on the menu at every meal doesn't mean you have to eat it. What ever happened to self control?
As for the parasitic women who knowingly go for married men... I have one word for you - karma. Personally I know 2 women who had affairs with married men. One actually got what she wanted, he left his wife, but now she is constantly insecure and always wondering what he's up to. How can you ever trust someone when you've heard the lies he told his wife to be with you? The other lady is now in her mid 40s, still single, desperately wants a baby but has no-one in her life capable of making that commitment because she wasted so many years with someone unavailable.
Sad, sad, sad.
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Agree 100% character of No self control which is thought dividing truth from a lie.
1) The Decision You Make determine how
2) You Feel and How you Feel will determine
3) Your Thinking and Your Thinking will determine
4) The Words that was sown can from Where
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So, what is your b/f thought on the subject ?
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PLEASE don't fuel her fire - that last post is definitely a wind-up. You can see the little smirk on her face as she types. I wouldn't employ her as a writer. If this was intended as 'research' for an article it should have been far more structured. She obviously had to quickly think of an excuse for asking the question but having the responses focussed on her merely boosts her sad little ego. To end with a 'holier than thou' piece of advice like "any relationship..." is rather pathetic.
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i just LOVE the one-size-fits-all-(crimes) rationalization.
i am sure spouses and children of cheaters the world over would be SO comforted to know that their "perceptions" of cheating are but mere "labels, terms, names...no scientic proof only accepted opinion...as art is indeed also emotive for there is no reason for it otherwise..."
...that their opinions and feelings on the devastation that cheating wroughts "does not make them either truth or lie. Happy or sad...that what is right is for each individual."
ugh.
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I honestly can’t believe that anyone would try to justify cheating and adultery.
I have only once been involved with a married man and I can say without doubt that it was one of the stupidest things I have ever done. Without trying to justify the affair, I was quite young (22), pretty naïve and he was my much older, and impressive (or so I thought at the time) boss.
I was single at that time but he was most definitely not. When the affair started, he was engaged and then went on to get married while we were still involved. Again, I’m not trying to make it sound pretty (as I believe cheating is very, very ugly) but it was not really a sexual affair involving clandestine meetings in hotels. It was more an emotionally torturous, ‘I love you so much, why can’t we be together’ long phonecalls, secret texts, closed door meeting, etc.
Looking back, I was an idiot. I truly believed we were meant to be together and he would leave his fiancé for me. He never had any intention of doing such a thing and I was the sucker that fell for all the traditional clichés. In hindsight, I think he was freaking out about committing to marriage, getting older, etc. and I was the distraction he needed to feel young again.
The only thing I am proud of is the fact that I eventually found the strength to walk away from it. It involved quitting my job and moving to another country but it was worth it.
I made a mistake but I learnt my lesson. What I cannot understand are people that don’t learn the lesson. After experiencing the pain, shame and guilt of being an adulteress, why would you get involved with a man or woman that already has a partner? I still think about his wife (and now two kids) and burn with shame. And I can’t understand why people would settle for a relationship that the other party can’t commit to 100%. Why sell yourself short?
Its not art, its not a situation that changes dependent on your perception, its just plain old ugly cheating.
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ludmillan, by eventually forsaking your affair, you actually acknowledged it was wrong, and learned to appreciate your partner.
i do agree that, given your situation, you did the least damaging thing by NOT revealing all to your partner, and are carrying the burden of your past cheating by yourself.
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if your affair wasn't wrong or bad, you could share it with your partner, family and friends, couldn't you?
do you at least acknowledge that yes, you learned to appreciate your partner, but you had to hurt someone else - your lover - to do it? that's the part i have a problem with - this blythe assumption that, just because YOU got something positive out of it, you didn't hurt anyone else and that it was all right.
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and as for your partner - if he knew the circumstances under which he "won" the prize of your newfound appreciation of him...do you think it wouldn't hurt him? of course you know it would hurt him, that is why you will never tell him of your affair.
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aijin, sorry to burst your bubble but...you are simply not as interesting or insightful or wise as you believe you are - no more exotic or mysterious or justified than a bit on the side.
watergirl and ludmillan, on the other hand, have actually given us many useful insights, IMHO - even if i don't completely agree with ludmillan's sunny view of her affair, i agree with her pragmatic discretion.
what you ARE, aijin, is an unintended comedian - you have brought more laughter to these forums than you know.
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Hmm. I adore love. The passion, the secrets, the thrill. And I have all that with my soon to be husband, without having to share him with anyone or be his second choice.
I would never judge anyone for making a mistake (like myself and Ludmillan). I just don't understand people who would choose to be in an adultery situation again and again and again.
And I don't play bridge (love a good cup of tea though!).
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Well who can blame them with trollops like you and Aijin around.
I firmly believe that all secrets come out, it is only a matter of time before yours comes and destroys what happiness you have.
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you also can't be bothered to answer questions or examine your own contradictions.
some people can't bear to be held accountable for their actions, and desperately need to justify their behavior with incredible rationalizations and ethical contortions. i guess that's what you need to do to have "good" affairs.
hey folks - do whatever you want! no one is judging you - no one in these forums is perfect - but what rankles is the hypocrisy. just don't pretty it up by imagining for one moment that dishonesty hurts no one, or that what you did was noble. your so-called good-for-everyone affairs came at a price, or will come at a price, even if you are in denial about it. peace back.
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Relationship = A formula that originally works when you mix the initial ingredients, but with the time factor the same ingredients might not match as well as they used to.
Affair = Testing for a new formula that will hopefully be as much or more successful than the previous one.
Formula = There is no one formula that is perfect, but a number of formulas that can all make us feel we are close to perfect. Keeping on searching for the "right" formula is natural.
The only two things that stop us from keeping on searching are ignorance of the fact that there might be better formulas and self control.
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Why do I get the feeling that Aijin is a blonde ?
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Aijin - a legend in her own lunchtime.
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A blonde having an affair in traditional Japan........RIGHT !!!
The only blondes having affairs in Japan with locals are paid for and the affair usually lasts less than 2 hours (including sauna time).......
Btw: I have a Flying Pink Elephant for sale....interested ?
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Thi all sounds very 'Thornbirds' to me!
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bryan brown is totally dishy - a real man's man, IMHO. he met and married his gorgeous co-star rachel ward during Thornbirds...they're still together :-)
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Nemesis - I think I may have to rent it out this weekend!! Yes, do like Bryan Brown too.
Aijin - what's wrong with your apartment then if his is 'occupied'?
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People want instant gratification, and I mean people who are "cheaters" and "mistresses" and their physical needs over-rides their emotions and logic. Only their physical private parts are speaking to them, not their brains. And, when they say it was just purely physical, believe them. They don't have a clue on what's real love. And, they think they could outsmart or hide it from their significant others but they know, they just do. People should watch the movie Unfaithful (starring Diane Lane) before they choose to have an affair or get involved with someone who's married. That movie is very powerful! It scared the sh*! out of me! Who wants to live life with a web of lies...??
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YOure not by any chance related to Bing Crosby are you? I love him.
And, speaking of judgemental. Are you judging the whole city of HK based on these few comments?
Last question. DO you think that your husband will be completely faithful during your time in HK?
Good luck with the move.
Monsieur Knowfreekinway!
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Sounds like many men would take off their rings when trying to get a girl! I thought there are only few shameless guys like that? What's going on? What should women do if they were cheated by such liars? What is the best way to teach a lesson?
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don't go with a married man, he sleeps with you, then go home to his wife for a good family life... either way you loose,,,had a bad case with a SIA pilot
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I discovered that he got a wife and was furious. He promised to divorce until his wife found out the affair. Then his wife got my numbers and we talked a few times on the phone. Although she now knows about everything, she still does not want to leave him! She got nothing else in her life! No job, no kids. So I guess she is not going to give up the 20 year marriage, no matter how he cheats on her! What about me? An innocent girl who was hurt for nothing! I was even thinking about taking a severe revenge.
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get a new life, get a new man
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Easy to say, but it takes efforts to overcome my anger. I wasted one year! Is it worth giving him a good lesson? Like making his job negatively impacted by such a scandal? He is a top level manager in a big company, but he does not deserve it by being a shameless liar. Please advice. Thanks!
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Like my Nana used to say, "There are women that are for marrying, and then there are those just to be used as playthings". I'm not sure if she was taking about slappers or gypsies as they were her 2 favourite topics!! Oh, the shame of soiled goods!!
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bdi
18 yrs ago
carice, yes, i don't understand...but would like to...
what you don't know won't hurt, but are you not curious to know the reality? I would definitely want to know or I would feel insecure and living a superficial life if I just pretend that nothing is happening when there is something really happening outside the relationship.
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I suppose an open relationship could work in principle but only if BOTH partners were participating in extra curricular activities. From Carice's posts, it sounds as if only hubby is getting his end away. Just a thought.
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Don't think people are being 'righteous', we just have differing points of view.
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Vulvic is right - it really comes down to different points of view. I personally cannot get my head around an open relationship working for me but I wouldn't judge anyone it does work for. To each their own.
However, I don't believe all 'traditional' (ie. not open) relationships have to have angst, or be viewed as old fashioned and out of touch.
Some people do meet the one and are happy to be only with that one for ever after. Thats not to say these are fairytale relationships don't have rough patches and obstacles - but there are people who don't ever bring a third party into their relationship. I don't think this makes them old-fashioned, conservative, etc. Its just what works for them.
I hope that whatever life throws at my husband and I, and whatever ups and downs we have, it will always just be me and him against the world. I honestly can't imagine it any other way.
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Wasabigizmobunny, I can tell you have never been through this type of situation or you would not mind being with a married guy. When it comes to Asia being "Prudish when it comes to relationships" I have a big question mark. I am not generalizing because I am sure there are many women who have self respect but it was shocking for me to learn that my exhusband's mistress was "technically educated and raised by a very conservative chinese family" and despite this, she did not care about marrying a married man. How sick is that. I reckon women like the one I am referring too feel some type of satisfaction, what for, I have no clue.
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Aijin or should I say "Ms. Oxford" I am stunned to see how proud you are. WOW! Astonishingly I always took for granted that uneducated females took those roles because they had no choice. They only way of surviving. I reckon there are more women like you. Hmmm interesting
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Wasabigizmobunny, As far as I know IT DOES TAKE 2 TO TANGO. I believe most women should feel pride on living with principles.Didn't your parents teach you any principles? Were you neglected by society? Were you raised in an orphanage and suffer deep trauma?? Please explain.
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wasabi, it's not that anyone, especially other women, deny each other or condemn each other for getting sexual gratification - it's that some women have no compunction at all who or what they destroy to get it, and - even worse in my book - actually believe they are "saving marriages" or otherwise doing humanity a favor, by doing so.
as for education as an indicator of morality and ethics? clearly, no relationship whatsoever.
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Wasabi, it is absurd that you expect a woman who lived the other side of your ideas: "...enjoy a gratifying sexual relationships, and find themselves in unconventional situations/ arrangements? " turn my ex marriage into a trio,as well as a 5 year old boy who does not have a male figure in his life. I reckon the woman with your ideas helped my marriage inmenselly. The sad part is that you feel no remorse not for the wife you are hurting but the kids involved. It was hertbreaking to hear my son wake up at night crying and calling Daddy; not only that my son had surgery and I was the only one there for him. He saw other boys who were going to have the same procedure done with their daddies but he had no daddy because of someone like you. How do you explain a kid what has caused him to have lost his daddy. Unfortunately you would not understand any of these, you need a heart to do so as well as a conscience because I understand that sexually you have no problem.
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New Jersey I am always reading your feedback and I thinking- "you go girl" but your last remark I am kinda, sorta, half way see your point. I also have health problems and would love to see my husband showing me support- I see patients waiting for their loved one and I am there all by myself. I wish it was my husband helping me bath, and not my mother. But, I hold my soon-to-be ex husband as the jerk in the situation. And I think your relationship with your son will be amazing because of the strength of working together through difficult times. Your husband and mine- are losers. Not all men cheat, not all mean chose to move to another country for financial gain, not all men are selfish and have NO MORALS. Your son will grow to be an amazing man, wonderful father, and a good husband. You are better without your husband. I have realized the 'whore' that my husband had the affair with (an MBA education in Boston, Mass) my have the brains but I have the class. At the end of the day- I am proud to know- I am loyal, honest, and faithful. I stand tall on the moral ground.
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Wasabi, Under no circumstance any of us "these women" as you call is has defended thei husband by trying to make up excuses for the issues. Just as Blueyes says WE MARRIED LOSERS. I reckon that if you are that interested in finding out what WE think about our ex husbands or former nghtmares you should start a new thread. You would certainly be amazed to kno what we all have inside.
Blueyes, thanks for your words. It is very difficult for people to actually understand what some women have to go through in these situations, especially if there are kids involved. I got rid of my burden but it is not over. My kid is only 5 now. As he grows older he will start asking questions. Secrets do not last forever and the truth regardless how disgusting it is will come to light when its time comes. Unfortunately, I won't be able to prevent this from happening and MY SON will get hurt, once again. I just hope that this helps him be A BETTER MAN so that he won't ruin anyone's lives as his daddy did.
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Royster, unfortunately, this time you were wrong, when I said that my ex was a loser I can assure you he still is. He refused at all costs to get a permanent job in the states because it was much simpler to go to China, live like single, sleep around, and get paid well. If you are in USA and you have skills you can get a job. Worst case scenario if there are no jobs in your field, could can easily get a job serving tables or cleaning bathrooms.Unfortunately, this was not the case. I stated that secrets do not last forever. I believe so because after I found out about the affair he cried and begged for forgiveness. I tried hard to make things work and what did I get. I found out a year and a half later that the bastard had kept in touch with that woman and even MARRIED HER. His story was that she had gotten pregnant from a married man and he could not marry her. Therefore, she lived in China, how would I find out? Wasn't it nice from him? very considerate. Nothing lasts forever, I know. I am playing no victim here. I am just stating facts. As a matter of fact after doing a research on Mental illnesses I realized the poor guy was "mentally ill". All the lies, the cheating, running away from problems, the fascination with power and inability to live in reality was an antisocial disorder. I have a permanent job and a wonderful kid who is MY LIFE. It took me a long time to get rid of my burden because he did not want to give me the divorce. We lived in the same place but unlike his mistress I can not be with a married man. Thanks God the day came and the trash left. That was happiest day of my life. I would not ever like my son to know everything I know. I never critise the jerk much less curse him. I believe in Karma and he will pay when the time comes. My soul is in peace but I would have appreciated if he had left as I asked him. Excellent topic for a book, isn't it? I may still be bitter when it comes to thinking of how this will affect my son. I am not planning to tell him anything but life has its twists and turns and just as I knew about his marriage my son may find out. I can assure you I did not look for anything. I was just trying to live a day at a time thinking on my son's welfare. I apologise for such a long text but I wanted to share with all you guys a tip of my story.
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Hiya...
I am relatively new to this forum and I have been reading your thoughts on the subject of affairs with interest. So here's my two cents' worth...
I am from a family which was fractured by affairs - a slightly different prospective on the subject for your discussion. My father has been having an affair with a lady in the mainland for as long as I can remember. I first knew of it through my mother who is bitter about it even now. They are still bonded in legal marriage but that is about it. As a child, I remember not seeing my father much at all and witnessing my mother's endless tears. He was not with me on my 16th birthday but (supposedly) with his mistress and her child. Now that I am a grown woman, I understand that the breakdown of a marriage or indeed any relationship may be due to many factors, affairs and hurt being one of them. I have gone through the hurt, the isolation, the pain of 'losing' my family. However, I do not blame either of my parents for what happened to our family for what happened between them was between them. I cannot say for certain (not that anything in this world is certain) that I would not cheat on my partner, but all the hurt and pain that I went through and my mother went through had made me to be extremely aware of siutations and circumstances.
We do not want to hurt our loved ones and yet it is only our loved ones who we can truely hurt.
I wish you all well and please please please think before you act for sometimes it might be your greatest regret.
Peace.
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my dad has been in an affair which my whole family doesn't know about but just me..i have turned a blind eye to it cause everytime i confront him about it he acts violently towards me.,...and since im a 19 year old girl..im actually pretty scared about this. i dont know what to do ive tried emotionally blackmailing him, but he has denied it.
yet everytime i catch him(without him knowing about it)...through him talking to her on the phone, pictures/txts ive found on his phone(tho he's caught me and keeps his phone with hjim EVERYWHERE now..how f*cking obvious). yet everytime this situation crops up..it becomes more and more obvious, i dont know what to do cause it just frustrates me.
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A woman who shags a married man probably fools herself into thinking that he wants to shag her because she is irrisistibly attractive (she's got self-esteem issues; most men will shag a dog, but it doesn't mean he even likes her!). She might fool herself into thinking she's special and he won't shag around on her even tho he's shagging around on his wife (even with evidence to the contrary. e.g. he's shagging/has shagged Wan Chai whores as well, he's told her and bragged he'll do it again. What's so special about you?) She might fool herself into thinking he will leave his wife for her - Then what, sweetie? How do you keep fooling yourself when the wife leaves him, he begs the wife to come back and prepares to leave the country with his wife. Oh, right, then you harrass and blackmail him into keeping in touch, sneaking out to your flat for a quickie, while doing all he can to get the hell away from you asap. When it becomes clear he's never going to be yours, you make sure and break up his marriage by telling his wife all the gory details and throw in a few lies for good measure.
Keep harrassing him in the hopes that he'll fly back to your arms - rather than the arms of another of his wh***s? - Oh, but then you're oh so proud to be the whore of the century, aren't you, skinny?
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"the trick here is noncommital sex,you know honey,just sexbuddy stuff and you can't say anybody wants to commit it's just lust,the adrenalin rush of being caught,the thrill of being naughty,the escape.
If the man is there and he goes along then let equality rule,why can't a woman do this,why does a woman get all the blame?"
Never said the woman is ALL to blame. If it hadn't been her, it would have been another of the wh***s he shagged along with her.
"Maybe the husband is just sick and tired of his nagging wife who always wants a bigger apartment,a better car,more rings on her toes, more money for herself and he's has enough!"
LOL! But that's exactly what he got from this whore of the century! (Excepting the kids, but she was angling for that too.)
"He finds a lover and a friend,"
Don't friends have something in common apart from lies? Don't they look out for what's in your best interests?
"...not a whore but someone on his own level "
ROFLMAO!
"...he can confide in,feel comfortable with,"
LOL!
"You will always ask this guy to buy you lunch,dinner,take you out,new Manolos,trips to Oman,diamond rings...whatever.(How most guys except my husband hate shopping)then send him 20 messages a day,call to ask him where he is every half hour 'Hey honey,are u home?"
Again, exactly what the wife did NOT do and the wh*** did!
"...scorned wife..."
On the contrary! I scorn people who act in this way. They have no respect for themselves and deserve no respect from others.
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13th, you don't know what you're talking about.
"Husband cheated with someone."
- H slept around with a bunch of whores.
"Said wife told all husbands friends to F-off when they called him and refused to let him have a social life."
Husband offered to cut all contact with former drinking/whoring associates. One called in the middle of Christmas night while they were in bed together. H pissed off. Wife called and asked him not to call again.
"...said husband and wife werent doing all that great to begin with."
What do you know about these ppl's private lives? Do you know H had drinking problem? W concerned and begging him to get help?
"Husband initially liked her a lot. They got along well together."
No idea about that, but H "got along" with all his drinking buddies. Drunken flirting with any woman who was present was seized upon by this "whore of the century" who stroked his ego as he did hers. Did he like her? Why tell friends then that she "looks like a tranny and walks like Jar Jar Binks", is a wannabe and "dumber 'n' a bag o' hammers"?
"Then as wifes world was falling apart he went back to her."
W started divorce proceedings and prepared to re-establish her own life. H begged for months, then she agreed to go back to him.
H blackmailed by OW, continued to see her after W was back, even while trying to win back wife's trust, trying to get out of the hole he had dug himself. OW threatened, stalked, eventually wrote vindictive letter telling wife gory details and a bunch of lies.
Name-calling? I know the little wh***, she is proud of what she did, bragged that she's "the whore of the century". But if it hadn't been her, it would have just been another of the wh***s he shagged. She was nothing special. He was in a downward spiral of self-destructive behaviour born of depression and alcoholism and took W along with him.
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