Posted by
sabbster
18 yrs ago
I have been urged by some new friends to explore a problem I'm having a little deeper.
Not sure how many of you caught my situation on the Banns thread but I'm now open to any advice.
The short version. Was married 12 years and have two kids. In 12 years I have been a completely faithful husband desperately in love with my wife, whom i adored, and devoted to my family above all else. Last August I caught her sleeping with a mutual friend of ours. Her excuse was that she was lonely because I had been travelling alot and working long hours.
This mutual friend was also married. His wife booted him out and he went back to England. My wife trailed behind him taking my two children with her. The other guy dumped her the week she arrived back. Since September last year she has been in London begging me to allow her to return.
Here's the problem. I SAW her with him. I know what he looks like. In 12 years I never once strayed yet she did and I'm paying for it with the loss of my kids. She wants to repair the damage but can it be repaired? The thought of her touching me or me touching her makes me feel quite nauseous. The mental images are driving me nuts as is the absence of my children.
Since that day, until recently, I have felt nothing but blinding and debilitating anger. Lately I'm contemplating a softening of my position on it if only so I can be near my kids. There is more background on the Banns thread but that's the crux of it. My wife who was also my best friend has now been in the arms of another man. Not just once but over a period of months. Personally I despise people who cheat just for the hell of it so i find myself realising for the first time that my wife is not the person i belived she was from either a values or moral perspective. Is that a chasm to wide to be bridged?
Interested to hear the guys view, particularly married guys, but also interested in the womans view. This is an attempt at perspective.
I might add that I do appreciate that cheating happens and that sometimes there may be a reason for it. I'll point you towards the Banns thread for my distinction.
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First, I think you'd be wrong to attempt to get back together solely for a chance (and nothing's guaranteed) to be with your children. That's not fair to them or you. If their parents aren't happy, neither will they be, and another split down the line will only compound their problems. If it's going to be worth trying, both you and your wife have to genuinely want it to work and feel that it can work. Right now, you're not there, not by a long way.
Cost could be a huge issue here, but could you consider them moving back to HK but staying separate? Give it a few months of being around her occasionally, keep contact with your kids and see if your feelings change.
Personally, I very much doubt I could ever get over the breach of trust in that situation, especially if it was deliberate and over a period of time rather than a stupid one-off. But that I'm afraid is something you have to work out for yourself.
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Appreciate the advice chaps. Inside out - you make some very valid points and alot of them i am currently wrestling with. Even thinking about the separate living scenario. It's feasible from a costs perspective and if I am leaning any way it is this way.
Car lover - I could get custody i suppose if I got nasty about the whole thing. But i dont hate the woman and taking her kids off her would be the end of her. Besides from a practical perspective I still need to provide for my kids the best way I can and between myself and my wife I am the one best equipped to do so from a monetary perspective. Their future should not be jeapordised because my wife got her rocks off with a friend of ours. But your right it is a horrid situation where I have done nothing wrong yet am paying a significant price for it. The men really do suffer in these situations of separation because more often than not the kids will go with the mother. As i said to her when it happened - I hope it was a great shag because it has cost me everything. That's why i get so burned when I read about people on here thinking about running around on their families. Ultimately it's the kids that suffer, and if it's a woman running around the suffering will be bourne doubly by the man. Sounds self pitying but damm it's the truth.
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Well, you're over-reacting on the mom part, Car lover. A cheating spouse doesn't necessarily have to be a bad parent!
Sabbster -- I think it is too soon for you to decide whether you can live with her again or not. I think it takes a bit of time to cool down and think things over rationally.
It depends from person to person. Many men and women are actually able to forgive their cheating spouses.
I know, personally, I could not forgive my husband. But I did not decide immediately what I wanted. I did love him so I stayed with him for more than a year after I found out about his affair. But after evaluating things, going for some therapy too, I figured I could never love or trust him the same way. I did not want to live a life forever checking on him. It would be as much a pain to me as to him.
He did not leave me for the other woman though initially that was his plan. But after about a year and a half I asked him to leave and live separately. But I stayed on in HK for the sake of our son who loves his dad and I did not want to take him away from his father. It would've shattered him. And my ex is a good father!
No, you cannot stay with her just for the sake of kids. That's a wrong reasoning and will never make the family happy.
I think it also depends how much you love your spouse. If you really love them, it is more difficult to forgive. The ''nauseating'' factor was very true of me too. I used obssess day and night over how he could have ever touched another woman, kissed her, had sex with her... I had been with him for 16 years!!
Leave alone the other betrayal involved when a spouse cheats on you, the physical stuff IS very difficult to take.
But once I decided to separate and started living on my own it all eased on me. I detached myself from him. I was happy with my decision as it was taken after careful deliberation. I was at peace with myself. Now after 3 years, I am still happy I took that decision. It was the right one for me.
So you need to really take time, think about stuff, and make sure whether you can or cannot forgive her. Only then take the next step. Good luck!
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That's a great piece of advice zonked and it sounds like we hit a similar situation. I genuinely applaud the steps you took, really. I hope your ex appreciates what you did to help stay together as a family.
I have to disagree on one point but only slightly and perhaps its a definition thing. No offence meant at all. But I tend to think a spouse who cheats for no other reason than loneliness and boredom is a bad parent. Anyone who risks the happiness and well being of their children because they are horny is to me almost the height of selfishness and irresponsibility. Ours was not an unhappy marriage for 11 years. It just was tough for her over here after we moved from london - but we knew that would be the case. The fact she could allow this to happen makes me for the first time in our relationship believe that she is not the outstanding mother I thought she was.
Thankyou again for the advice.
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Hiya Sabbster, I'm sorry to hear what your wife did, and expecially that fact that you are separated from your kids for so long as a result of it. I do think that you are feeling let down and disappointed by your wife, and I am sure that the mental images are really not helping that.
With the amount of emotional stuff that you are trying to reason and deal with at the moment, have you thought about going to counselling to see if that will help you figure out what it is you really want (or can accept) as far as you and your family goes. What that resolution is, only you can say right now, but it has to be worth finding out sooner rather than later, if nothing else, for the sake of the kids.
If you decide that counselling might help you, send me a message and I can make a very healthy recommendation for a male counsellor here in HK.
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Sabbster, one of the major reasons why I could not forgive my ex was because while he was cheating on me, he was of course being negligent of his role of being a dad. And there are a few incidences that are etched in my memory -- when he deliberately neglected our son to be with that woman. When our son needed him but he preferred to party with her. I'll never forget those occasions. It is impossible to forget or forgive those. As I said, when a spouse cheats, there're many many issues.
But what I meant in my last post about a cheating spouse being a good parent, and reason I wrote it is -- he woke up from his sleep after I made him realise what a horrible dad he had been. That too to a son he adored and loved! He proved soon after, again, how much he loves and wants his son. He takes very good care of him and he does a lot with him over the weekends. I would never want my son to lose his father.
Our's wasn't an unhappy marriage either! Quite the contrary. We had everything a couple wants in life, inluding love and passion. Yes, we definitely had disagreements and were different in some ways (which came to forefront more after the betrayal and added to the reason for separation) but people around us actually envied us. Maybe that is why it was all the more difficult to forgive and carry on with him. He had NO reason to cheat on me!! No one, including me, ever thought we'd end up like that! It was a shock to the family, friends and whoever knew us closely. But it happened. And now we're happy.
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I think no relationship between a man and a woman be based on any kind of need.
Be it kids, financial, emotional or social. Because the moment you do that there will always be an imbalance. My view.
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@@
18 yrs ago
Hi Sabbster,
So very sorry to hear of your situation, a very tough and bumpy road is ahead of you.
I think you should check out a website called survivinginfidelity.com, they have what they call the healing library which has some very good articles dealing with the issues you talk about. It also has quite a good forum to discuss your situation, commom fears, worries with others who have been there. Some have gone on to have happy, strong marriages and others have not.
I wish you the very best.
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Hi Sabbster,
Sorry to hear about your situation. I guess at this stage it is too early to decide if you could forgive her. Or even to attempt to repair the damage.
Perhaps some time apart is the best. Allow yourself some time to absorb the shock and to heal. From my personal experience, I find it a lot easier to deal with the situation being away from the person who has hurt me.
Tell her the best thing she could do at this stage is to give you some time and some space to think things over.
Good luck
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hi sabbster, i sent you a PM just before seeing this thread.
i doubt i could ever forgive infidelity, and almost certainly could never forgive the removal of my child from me, but one thing i do know about forgiveness: it can be the greatest gift you can give, not only to your offender, but also to yourself. it is healing, and liberating.
however in your case i think there is still a long way to go...although you have already taken a step in that direction by acknowledging that your wife is as flawed a human being as any of us. i am in no way excusing what she did - neither the infidelity, nor dragging your kids off. but it's a positive statement. take baby steps by taking a lot of the good advice given above, and consider counselling, at least for yourself.
for now perhaps you could focus on a purely pragmatic course of action, which is to arrange for your boys to visit you, or vice versa, at the nearest possible time. perhaps you have some leave you could take during their next school holidays, and take a vacation with them, just the three of you? maybe spend time with them at your parents' home? i am sure they are as desperate to see you and make sense of the whole thing as you are, and there's no need to plan an elaborate holiday, just reunite with them in a place that has loving and safe associations for them, whether it be in HK or the UK.
(zonked, i just want to say that except for the infidelity part, your ex-marriage sounds almost exactly like my ex-marriage, as does your present happy state of independent singlehood. i also subscribe to the same view re relationships based on need. i now enjoy an amicable and respectful relationship with my ex, who is an excellent father.)
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mao
18 yrs ago
I'd like to contribute 2 points from my perspective: 1. you and and your wife need time and space alone to find out what you want. Eventhough she's the one who really needs it as she went astray, you just have to wait or you never know what life has to offer by this big trauma; 2. Think less of her, concentrate on your kids instead. Each decision, each step is for your children.
My ex-marriage lasted for 19 years. A passionate lovefor the first 10 years which surived the June 4 movement, long time separation in different countries and 3 abortions. Many times, I was in a foreign country with no family, no friends and no job; then I made a home for us and packed up again for him. Then when we went back to china he had an affair. When i was pregnant with our son, he promised he'd never go out. But not for long. He was absent in my son's first few years. The desperation has driven me out of my own misery and established myself again socially and professional. Twice, in my married life, he's been out of job over 5 years together. It took us 9 years to both accept that we're on different tracks of life. We both single now and both living decent, honest though separate life. We both gave our best to our son. He's not contributing financially, but he is still trying to be a good dad, most importantly, my son loves him
When I look back, we all need various experiences, also big tests and tramas to live a full life. Life goes on for all of us
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sabb, a mum who really loves her kids would not take them away from their father, if u have been a responsible one. that's fundamental. she's got not no right to do so, even if she doesnt love u she's got to have some respect for her kids and their father.
The rest (emotinal/sexual/personal) would be up to both of you to deal with.
If u really want a divorce, dont get caught with any adultery before the filing for your own benefit. if ur kids are young, she would have big chance to get custody even if she's the one with fault. Only when you can prove she kidnapped her kids to another country to another man without your permission, then you would have some chance winning the custody. (check with a good divorce lawer).
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cujo
18 yrs ago
Well, sabbster, you know what decision I have made with respect to this matter. And you probably have noticed that, while no one has actually criticised me for choosing to remain married, several of the posts on the BANS thread have cautioned me that children are more perceptive about these matters than we tend to think.
My perspective on cheating is that the interests of any affected children should come first. That does not mean that I think any spouse who is cheated on should put up with it for the sake of the kids. As numerous people have noted here, a couple who cannot get along are not doing their children any favors by staying together. However, in my humble opinion, the aggrieved spouse in most cases owes it to the children to seriously consider whether he or she can forgive the unfaithful spouse.
The question then, as I see it, is not simply whether you should take back your wife, but whether you can learn to forgive her and whether she can earn back your trust. Forgiveness is not something you can just decide to do or do in an instant; it's not a matter of saying "I forgive you." It's certainly not easy in these situations. In my case, it has been almost a year since my wife promised me that she was ending her affair. While I have no evidence that she has failed to keep that promise, she definitely has not yet earned back my trust. (As I noted before, I don't think that she's really made much of an effort to do so.) Nor can I say that I have fully forgiven her. But I'm trying my damn best and I truly believe that we can get past this if we both are committed to doing so.
From my perspective your situation is tougher than mine for several reasons. First, you actually saw your wife together with another guy. Even though I did not catch my wife in the act, visions of her in bed with someone else still pop into my head from time to time. When they do, I make a conscious effort to get rid of them. You will need to be able to do the same, and I suspect it will be more difficult in your situation. Second, your wife took off with your kids, which in my book significantly compounds the offence, exacerbating the already difficult task of forgiveness. Third, as electrode noted, there likely is the damaged ego/embarrassment factor. While this isn't a factor in my case (I have told only one person (not including the countless readers of this post!) and I believe my wife has told no one), I think it probably is a very significant issue for many aggrieved spouses, particularly men. But I think this is more of a perception problem that something that should be a major sticking point. I think that you would find that your friends and family would be supportive, even if they think they would not do the same thing.
On the other side of the ledger, you have one very significant advantage - a wife who realises that she acted selfishly and stupidly and is likely to work very hard to earn back your love and respect. Even very good people sometimes do very stupid and selfish things. If you were married to this woman for 12 years and always thought that she was a good person and a wonderful mother, well then chances are she is - those 12 years probably are a much better indicator of her overall character than what appears to have been an aberrant period of her life.
I'm not saying that you should necessarliy take your wife back, but I am glad to hear that you are at least considering the possibility. I think that you would be surprised at what you can deal with - if you decide that you want to take that challenge. However, I don't think anyone would criticise you if you decide that you cannot do it; there are a lot of different factors that go into how any one of us reacts to life's big questions.
Good luck, sabbster. I'd be happy to exchange PMs, talk to you, or give you whatever additional insights I can from my probably-not-so-unique perspective.
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Let me first say that I am truely very sorry for what you are going through. Reading your thread I can almost feel the pain. I have gone through a very similar ordeal myself. I had even posted my story here a few months ago looking for advice and direction. My husband had decided that he'd preferred the single life and was having an affair for about 5 months before I caught him. The betrayal I felt/still feel is unimaginable. He was suppose to be my friend, lover, confidant, the person I turned to when I needed someone. Our marriage had a rough start, and we didn't have the kind of history you and your wife had. We were only married for three years before he decided to look elsewhere. His argument/excuse was that I was never suppose to find out, that it would have ended in it's own time and no one would have been hurt. There were plenty of other excuses, but they were equally absurd. Cheaters always seem to have excuses to explain why they do what they do. But to me, nothing excuses such a breach of trust. Nothing.
How do you deal with such a thing? I guess there is no right or wrong answer. I know this because I'm going through it myself. There are so many things to factor in, especially when there are children involved. But, in the end, you need to figure out what would make you happy and let you sleep at night. You have to figure out what you are willing to live with and what you are capable of doing. Can you forgive your wife? Really? And be at peace with that decision? Only you know that. I am having a really hard time forgiving my husband for his betrayal. He didn't just cheat on me, he cheated on our child as well. On our family and friends. I hope that one day I can forgive him, but I know that I will never forget, and I will never be able to trust him again. I decided that for my peace of mind, a divorce was the only solution. It wasn't an easy decision. Especially since I have a child with medical needs. But it is the right one for me. Of course the decision was a bit more easier for me because I have custody of our child.
I guess what I'm saying is that you are still very angry and it's hard to make any rational decisions. Give it some time and listen to yourself. Decide what is important in your life and how you can be happy. Your children need you. But they need a happy parent. At some point you will have to forgive your wife and move on. That will be a necessary step for you to gain peace of mind. Try to understand human weakness and know that some people are weaker than others in certain situations. This is what I'm working on, trying to be able to forgive my husband and be civil to him, even if it's just for the sake of our kid. Getting a divorce is something I have to do for myself, and preserve myself respect. My kid will be happier with a mom who is happy with herself. Kids are resilliant and smart. I think we underestimate how preceptive they really can be. Try and figure out what would make you happy. Obviously that would mean having your children around. See how you can achieve that without compromising your sanity. Whether it's having your wife move there with the kids or you moving closer to them. You are in a very difficult situation and the solution won't be easy. But when the dust settles and everyone's adjusted to the new situation, you'll have a chance of being happy again. Good Luck!
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I dont know quite what to say. Thankyou to all of you for your advice. I was under the impression that most posters on here were more interested in threads about trivial things but I've been humbled greatly.
I'm sorry that their seems to be many of us this has happened to. There was a period where it felt like I was the only one going through this. A great deal of self pity I imagine. You guys have helped my perspective a great deal.
I'm not sure which way I'm going to go or what the path is. She and the kids are coming back for CNY and I guess we'll see what happens. But the angre I have been feeling right up until last weekend is slowly dissapating and it actually feels like a load has been dropped. The landscape looks very different now.
I need to make a special and large thanks to Justin Credible and MPL for urging me to post here and for giving me the wake up call I needed (MPL - is it possible for a hangover to last 4 days? Thankyou. JC - You're now co sponsor, will respond soon).
Also Cujo - we may have had our differences on the Banns thread but your advice is very sound and I'm starting to understand your position alot better. My apologies for giving you a hard time.
After reading your posts and absorbing the suprisingly sound advice I'm at a point where I would consider having her back but living separately for a while, like Inside_Out suggested. I agree that getting back together just because of the kids would be wrong. But at least if they were in the same country as me I might be able to breathe. Who knows - maybe counselling would work. Can I forgive her? No - not yet at least. It's impossible. I need to clarify that I didnt actually catch them in the act - I caught them seconds after the act together in my home. Long story but I wont go into it here.
There are several of you that I would like to PM and respond to personally which i will do today.
I noticed some posters I did not recognise - I hope you stay contributing to issues here because your advice is valuable.
Thankyou again guys. If anyone has any experience with forming a separate life, living arrangements with a separated spouse then I would devour the information eagerly. I dont have a clue where to start in terms of explaining it to kids, what the rules would be etc.
Thankyou all again. Angry man is getting calmer by the hour. That in itself is a bloody miracle.
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What will forgiveness mean to you and your wife? That is something important too. Is it that once you take her back you'll never talk, discuss, argue on this issue??
You need to evaluate this very carefully. Because it can lead to disaster later on. I mean, it is only natural that things will keep coming up. Now if that makes life miserable for everyone in the family, how long does one persist? Because, ultimately that might lead to the end of the relationship.
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That's an excellent point Zonked. If I did take her back then it would very much need to be with the understanding that it never comes up again. I do understand how that could lead to trouble if it is left to linger. This is a very big reason why I am wrestling with the forgiveness - because it needs to be so absolute. Like it never happened. Not sure I can do that. Will PM you later.
BTW - just found out MPL has been banned by Ed. Not sure how this site works but is there a way we can petition to reverse it? Dont know about you guys but he has helped me a bloody huge amount so I imagine he's helped some of you.
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I'm very dissappointed to hear that MPL has been banned. He was one of the key people to help me through my most difficult hours. I have been reading his advise to others, and I have to say that it always has been sound. To ban him from a site like this is doing a great disservice to everyone who comes here.
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To err is human to forgive devine. It depends if you love her. Sounds like you do. Why throw it all away because she slipped up. If it's not the life you want then it's a good opportunity to get out, if not, forget about the bullsh*t feelings of deceit etc. Just stop thinking negative stuff and get on with enjoying the rest of your life with the person you love. You sound like an amazingly loyal guy which maybe she found hard to match. Maybe there will be more honesty now but not if you base it on ultimatums. It's not very nice when your partner plays around but somehow it doesn't seem so bad when your the person doing it - from my experience. Just my 10 cents worth.
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@@
18 yrs ago
Hello again Sabbster,
I'd also like to suggest a book called Surviving Infidelity - Making decisions, Recovering from the Pain. by Rona B. Subotnik
Some very good advice on helping your children through this situation and also on learning to forgive and move on.
Good Luck.
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Hi Sabbster,
Really sorry to hear your story, it's a killer that many of us can understand. I too had something similar done to me, not once but twice. Once with my wife (10 years, one night stand) and once with a girlfriend (seeing her ex behind my back 12 months). Many woman will disagree with the following comment, but it does have some scientific basis. When a woman cheats on a man it is a sh*t load harder for men to deal with. Apparently it is a subconscious level insult. YOU ARE NOT A GOOD MATE. YOU ARE NOT THE BEST MALE IN THE PACK. I NEED A STRONGER MALE TO FATHER MY CHILDREN Etc etc. People will argue that this theory is very old and doesn't count. But hey these are instinctive emotions that are hardwired into us and civilization has only been around for a very small snapshot of time compared to the human evolution. It is also harder for men to talk about it, because men don't talk much about this stuff. A lot of men will distance themselves from you unless it is a really good friend.
When I read your story it reminded me of the anger I had inside me. It twisted me up. I would be really aggressive and sometimes get into street fights because of it. The purpose now I look back was perhaps to prove to myself I am not weak, plus it was probably just an outlet for it.
I wished many nights that if only I called at the right time, if only I went with her. Anyway we worked at it and worked at it, but the truth of the matter is. Once somebody has broken your trust like that, it is always there in the back of your mind. It will also be baggage that you will carry with you for the rest of your life unless you learn to deal with it. So I guess the only advice I can give you is don't jump to any conclusions, it will become easier with time and it will become clearer. Work on making yourself happy at the moment. Go on a dinner date, enjoy the company of another woman, how far you go is up to you. Go and get drunk once or twice, BUT don't look for the answer at the bottom of the glass and don't do it a lot. It is only a short term cure to shut down your head so you can sleep. Be wise and be careful in regards to your money and the possibility of a divorce and getting screwed. The main thing at the moment is make sure you get better. This may sound selfish, but what good are you going to be if you make a decision that will effect all of your lives, when it is made with an unclear head? 4 to 8 weeks isn't a long time and the decision you will make will be made with better judgment.
All the best
Cheers
Weelee
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We indeed have a great source of advise here at asiaxpat!
Great to read different points of view.
Time, counselling and careful thinking are very important to reach a solution to such a complex situation.
On the trying aspect -- yes, we tried a lot too. Went on a second honeymoon(after sending the son to my parent's place in another country!) which of course was his idea and he made it really super deluxe 5-star one with business class tickets and suite in the top hotel, sent me a huge bouquet of roses for Valentine's Day, etc.... Unfortunately, it neither impressed me nor made me happy. Rather, even the roses which usually brighten me up, failed to even bring a smile to my lips! The love was gone, in an instant, and it refused to come back.
If you feel really in love even after all this, even a single rose with a kiss would give a sparkle to your eyes. But when love is lost, money, flowers, gifts can't buy it back!
It was too much of a shock for me. Nothing worked towards getting back with him, rather it all worked to make me realise that I could no longer be with him. Even the counselling. I wanted to know every detail and with every detail I went further away from him.
Still, everyone, our families and he himself(the one who cheated!!!!) thought that we'll get back together after a couple of years of separation. But that did not happen either! I just know, that though I was alone in it, I took the right decision. It does require a lot of strength and luckily we find it when we need it!
I am not advocating, sabbster that you leave her, but what I mean to say is that you really really need to evaluate the situation well and take time. The kids need both of you so you should work at a situation where they can have both the parents.
Btw, I did not get your PM.
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On a cheerful and optimistic note -- Love conquers everything. If you're deeply and madly in love with her, I am sure you'll be able to forgive her! I know that is definitely true.
In my case, I think we were not really ''in love'' any more and had drifted a bit.
Smile.
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Don't forgive her.
Make her suffer.
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Glad to see you back and on active duty here, MPL!
Sabbster, like I said before, you need to figure out what is right for you in this situation. As you can see, there are many of us who have gone through very similar experiences, and we have taken our own route in dealing with it and moving on. Everyone is different and every situation has their differences that need to be considered. As several people have mentioned, I think counselling would be a great start for you. It did for me. If anything to help me sort out my feelings. There is a lot of hurt and anger that you need to deal with. And also you need to figure out what you are going to do as far as your children are concerned. As for your wife, I would say take some time. You should try and be around her and see how you feel. In the end you do have 12 years of history, and it should mean something. See how you feel and what you are willing to do.
It's been three months since I learnt about my husband betrayal and seen him. He has finally decided to come and visit our child. I have to say that I was not looking forward to the first meeting. I thought I wasn't ready to see him, to face him. I felt my life was in shambles and he was carrying on like he didn't have a care in the world. And he was the one who cheated. He was the one who did wrong, and yet I was paying the price. But when I finally did see him, I felt nothing. Just saddness of what could have been. Whatever we had died, and now I am convinced that I made the right choice in seperating from him. What also helped was that I have seen no real remorse from him for what he did. I really do think that he believes the biggest mistake was getting caught. As many pointed out since then, the writing was on the wall, and I just refused to read it. Our marriage was not working for a while, and yet I kept hanging on, giving him excuses and taking some of the blame for having unrealistic expectations. So in a way I'm glad he did what he did, because it gave me the final resolution to cut my lossess and move on. Trust me, this enlightenment didn't come straight away. I spent a good two months crying in bed, licking my wounds and feeling very sorry for myself. I needed to go through that to be where I am now. A lot of people didn't understand that, but it's something I needed to do. Now it's all about moving forward. You should do whatever you need to do to move forward. Move frward from teh anger and the pain. I think you are doing the right thing in having your kids back around you. You need them as much as they need you. You'll also get a chance to see what kind of relationship you can have with your wife. One thing I do know is that you will never be able to forgive her until you know that she really gets exactly what she put you through. That she really understands the pain you are going through. And councelling may help both of you to get through this.
Good luck!
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Sabbster, sorry to hear what you've been through and glad to hear you're feeling a little bit better. First and foremost important thing is that you need to take good care of yourself, not only physically but also emotionally.
"Forgiveness does not mean condoning the behavior of those who have hurt us. Forgiveness is a choice that we make to release our past and heal our present."
by Dr Fred Luskin, the cofounder and director of the Stanford University Forgiveness Project. Author of "Forgive for Good, A PROVEN Prescription for Health and Happiness".
I attended the forgiveness program led by Dr Fred Luskin at the Stanford University a few years back. It's inappropriate to go into the nitty gritty of why I was there. But I do want to point out that the results were remarkable and lasting. Since the program itself is months long, it would not be feasible for those who reside outside the area. You might consider following the program in his book.
It's well researched with proven methodology. Not airy fairy type of stuff. The book is available online at www.Paddyfields.com for only HK$109 where it will set you back at $237 at the Hong Kong Book Center.
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yes, there is always a price tag attached to forgiveness. and you have to pay it. pay it to let go of the hurt, pay it to go on, pay it to release yourself from the past.
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To err is human, to forgive divine....
Why do we expect the victim to suddenly do a great divine act of forgiving?? Hasn't he/she been a human to suffer so much pain and doesn't he have the right to be human and not be able to forgive?
Why put him under added stress to suddenly become a Mahatma and start forgiving. It is not easy as humans to act like one!
It is all about LOVE. You may not be able to forgive a person for her deed but you can always take it as a bump in the road and drive over it and continue to love her.
I've had both sides of it in my life. I felt betrayed by the only two guys I have loved in my life. When my ex betrayed me, I could not forgive him but I did not love him enough either to carry on a life with him, though I tried thinking that I had loved him immensely.
But, when my lover betrayed me, my love for him was just too intense. Though I remained angry with him and will never forgive him for what he did to me, I still continued to love him and have him in my life. Actually the love grew, the feelings intensified to the extent I never thought they could. And this is when I did not even try to keep loving him. I just thought I was too hurt to ever feel anything for him! I was proved wrong!
And then there was a time, long back, when as a teenager, I had betrayed the trust my parents had in me. I destroyed their faith to the extent that my dad wrote ''I'll never forget or forgive this action of yours''. And I knew, he did never. I know he hasn't and never will. But that did not stop him from loving me or expressing his utmost love for me. Yes, that was parental love and parents always love you. But isn't that love great -- the love that cannot forgive but still increase with evry passing moment??
So, in my view, it is not necessary to forgive. What is needed is to look inside your heart and LISTEN to it! If you still feel that unending love for her, go on, live a life with her. Tell her you cannot forgive her for what she did but that you love her anyway.... wouldn't that be much better?
You'll be true to your feelings and she will know exactly how you feel. Neither of you then have to pretend.
Love and anger/hatred can co-exist. It is very important to come to terms with this in life. One is able to resolve a lot of conflict in life if you understand this.
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Good point zonked. I’m not one for being a martyr and not what I meant to suggest. I just remember that all those poison darts of hatred and anger that we all fire off at our loved one, ex loved one actually don't hurt anyone but the person firing them off. Nothing is quite so sad as someone consumed by anger over eg unrequited love or unfaithfulness and the object doesn't even notice, let alone care. Not that I am suggesting that is the case for sabbster. I would assume his feelings are entirely natural and normal for someone in his situation at this point in time but you wouldn't want him feeling that way in say 2 years. Would you? Sabbster, some counseling might not be a bad idea for both of you to get to the bottom of what caused it all. Hong Kong can be a very lonely place for a woman and it may be related to feelings of inadequacy, unhappiness or loneliness on her part. Otherwise it may end up as papering over the issues without fixing them and then having to go through it all again. On another angle, my wife left me with 4 and 7-year-old boys, 15 years ago, and I never looked back. Had, and am having, a great life, so whatever happens with your wife it will get better and there’s not many places better than HK to be a single guy if that’s what you decide.
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forgiveness is NOT about the other person, it's about yourself. it's about releasing the negative feelings. it's about setting yourself free. it's about YOU.
does anybody really want to live the rest of one's life with negative feelings like resentment, anger, bitterness, victimization, powerlessness?
i doubt it, i really do doubt that any sane human beings can truly enjoy their life with such negativities held in their heart and soul.
by holding grudges inside ourselves, we are not only hurting ourselves, but also our love ones...because it hurts them to see us hurt.
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Thankyou all for your advice. I have decided to ask her and the kids to move back to Hong Kong but we will retain separate residences. That way I can be near the kids whilst I work on seeing if there is anything left to repair. It's a long way from where I was a week or two ago. I cannot forgive her and I know I will never forget - not sure where that leaves me. But I'm sick of being the one punished for her moronic and selfish actions. I did nothing wrong, my kids did nothing wrong so we deserve to be together.
I'll reiterate this again and hope there are people out there who will listen. Think very carefully before you cheat on your spouse if there are kids involved. If you suspect your spouse is having an affair then dont go out and do the same. Find out for sure and work the problem. And for gods sake if you're unhappy at home make your partner hear that you are - dont just act. Your partners deserve a chance to make things right.
I appreciate the sincere advice given. Thankyou for treating a serious thread seriously. Good luck to each of you.
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Thanks JC. Have PM'd you.
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Sabbster,
I have read through this thread and I feel for you. While I don't have kids and I can not fully understand your situation, I have gone through the pain of my wife having an affair. The main reason for writing this is to let you know your not alone and that there are other people out there that this has happened to. I've written a bit about my experience. I've written not to suggest you do what I did, but just to give you another person's perspective (who has gone through this) and where I am at with things a couple years later.
In my case the affair happened 2 short years after we were married. My wife largely attributed it to the fact she felt I did not show her enough attention as I often travel and when I returned home I often thought of a weekend as spending some time at home rather than out hitting the town or being as active as she would have preferred.
I supsected something was going on and tried to give her the opportunity to discuss this with me. She simply just denied anything was happening. I then suspected more and confirmed something was going on. I then tried on numerous occassions to discuss this with her, but it was just denial on her part. Finally one day about 3 months into this (after numerous sleepless nights)and threating to leave, she finally fessed up.
It was at this time I asked her if she really wanted to be in this or not. I told her that if she was really that unhappy and that if she could find the happiness in someone else that she thought she was missing by being with me to go get it and leave freely. She said she wanted to stay and we made the mutual descision to stay together and try to make it work.
I can't say there was any one reason why I decided to stay and try to work it out, but if I had to put it down to a few things I think I would say the following things were some of my thoughts at the time:
1. Despite the deep hurt that she brought to me at that time, up to that time she brought out a lot of things in me that made me a better and happier person (and she continues to do that today)
2.I knew if we could "truly" work our way through this it was going to take a lot of communication, both good and bad. I knew that if by communcation and counselling we could work truly work through it we would be well prepared to work through anything (a litte bit of what doesn't kill you makes you stronger). Without a doubt this communciation has been the key to us working this out and getting us through this
3. Some advice I recieved in this along the way was a comment "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"
It's now two years later and we are still together. It has not been an easy two years. There were times I felt I would give up. Particulary the first 6 months were tough as I don't think she realized how serious things really were. But continued counselling really helped and the communication channel has been the best and most open that it ever has in our relationship. It makes a big difference knowing that what is on our minds can be discussed openly and frankly.
You mention she will be coming back with the kids. I think that's great that you will be close to them again. As you've stated you should not be penalized in this respect for her behavour. I think it's very wise that you will remain separate from her and as you've said see if there is anything left to repair. I think this will be the best for both of you to figure of if there's anything still left between you. As I reflect I wish we would have had some "away" time from eachother. I think this really would have helped form a clear picture in our minds where we wanted to be.
I also found your other comment about not being able to forget and forgive very interesting.
I can tell you that in my case I have not forgotten, nor do I think that I will ever be able to forget. And for that matter I don't think my wife will ever forget.
Sometimes it burns inside when I am reminded of it, even today with the progress we've made. But it has gotten so much better. I think the main reason is that we can openly talk about if we need to. If I'm burning up inside, she does not run away and openly listens to my feelings. On the flip side she has felt a lot of regret and guilt that eats at her sometimes and she wants to talk about it and let it out.
Though this process I find that I think about it less frequently than I used to and I believe she would say the same, but I think we both know it truly can not be forgotten.
With this open communication, I am finding that I am step by step moving more towards forgiveness. Honestly I doubt if I will be able to entirely forgive just like I will never able to entirely forget, but I'm finding that it too is getting easier with time.
You have some very solid and good thoughts and there has been some posting here in response to your thread. I wish I would have seen some of these a couple years ago.... As I mentioned at the beginning I wrote this to let you know your not the only one and just to give you some perspective from someone who has gone through this (less the children) and where I/we are at a couple years later.
Good luck to you.
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I forgot to mention the name of a book that was recommended to my wife and I by our counsellor. After the Affair (Janis Abrahms Spring with Michael Spring)
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cujo
18 yrs ago
Yes, southstand, I agree with JC and mpl - that's a very useful post. I sent you a PM a few minutes ago. (hopefully I sent it only once, but I apologize if ended up sending it multiple times!)
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Well, what can I add, eventhough I never got married and don't have any kids (yet), the problem with the travelling and maintaining a relationship is very well known to me.
Since you married her and do have kids and want to see your kids again, why not try to pick things up living separately?? Have her come over discuss things and see how you can practically work things out, without too much hurt and mud-slinging either way. Being this far apart is never going to solve the situation, and not seeing your kids must be awfull.
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Sabbster
You are going through a really tough time and I feel for you. You are now taking very careful conscientious steps and your hurt will give you caution and protect you from unwise decisions.
I have been - am going through - a similar situation. My ex-wife had a drinking problem, and anger issues, and our short-lived marriage was difficult from the start. But we tried so hard to make it work, and neither of us was young. Counselors warned me to leave here, but in her eyes I was always to blame and I felt she never really admired or respected me (which made me feel she didn't really know me); and she talked quite openly with her frie ds about things, which I found difficult to deal with.
We had separated for a year in HK and had been back together on trial. One night we went out with her gay friends, and I had a visting work colleague in tow. Her silly friends got her drunk and overexcited, and the next thing we are in a club and she ha her tongue down another guy's throat. The shock of that sight will probably never quite leave me, but what was worse was that she refused to leave. I left distraught. only to come back a little whle later to take her home - she refused and disppeared for a day. She claims she went homew drunk to her friend's. All that time I was mad with anguish and friends had to look after me. She was terribly sorry afterwards, but the drinking and the abuse continued, plus some other things I can't even mention. Ultimately I became convinced that she only wanted me for a baby and would leave me, and have me fund her, living in another city from me. She pretty much said as much one day. I left her last year, it was heart-breaking and it will take a long time to get over the loss. The past two years had me wondering whether life was living; now I am better, and in a better situtation, but I still feel a terrible sense of loss, and of missed opportunities. I blame her for destroying our marriage, though in her eyes I was unloving, uncaring, narcissistic, a roving eye, anything. I honoured my promise to give her half of everything of mine, even though we were only together for a couple of years, but a couple of minutes after I wired the last instalment she emailed me saying she hoped never to see me again in the future. I know she must be feeling pain too, but I have some resentment that someone I am being the one who's to blame for it all. She had a good catch in me and she blew it. I acn be honest about my faults and my failings; she could nevere admit anything, between us or with counsellors involved. So the only way the relationship could work was to comply, adn be on eggshells for her mood swings. It was half a life. The experience has made me so much wiser, so much more grounded, but also a lit bit less connected from the human race.
Out of all of this, I know the only way forward is through forgiveness. Forget doesn't work, anger, nor do resentment and bitterness. But if you try to understand and accept why the person did what they did, it becomes less of an act directed against you and more a manifestation of their issues, and that does make it easier to bear. Also i think it still enables you to continue to love/life the person for who they are, good and bad - whereas I think perhaps that anger and rage come from having contradictory feelings about them. It is a struggle but alot of baby steps do add up to something.
Also what makes it much easier to deal with is to be open to loving someone else. It is a possibility, as you know, that you'll not be able to repair what you had. In that case try to think of your wife's actions not much as coming from human volition, but more of just a natural disaster that just happened(!). Almost like accident or fate. It's a pretty questionable approach I know, but it can work as a short-term device if your happen be be the kind of person who is prone to feelings of regret and living in the past. You need to actively try to think about the present. The present, and the near future. Hong Kong is not a bad place for that.
Good luck mate!!!
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Wow... another fantastic post. And I can relate to it completely.
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a-man,
Indeed a very impressive post I think most people can relate to these days since 50% of marriages end in divorce....
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Guys, cheers
Another thing coming all this is that, not surprisingly, my views about infidelity have become less flexible. Not so much from seeing my ex with another man, but more the recent experience of being late 30s and single in Hong Kong. More and more, as I become older and wiser (late onset!) I see the preciousness of relationships. They are so special, but precarious; they need nurturing by the couple involved and support from wherever they can get it. I know people who've been couples for twenty years and who've worked through things and grown and shared together. I've seen people who have been single and lonely for a long while find each other and appreciate the gift. And people who go into marriages with their eyes open, both wanting something, and negotiate their terms and honour them. All of these are precious, dignified and noble.
Against this I see - we all see - the tremendous pressures that relationships are subject to in this town. The couples themselves have work and social distractions, and their live together, especially when there are no children on the scene, can become another entry in Outlook. Work and the city thrills and consumes us, and the abacus and the project manager in our brains whirrs away as our soft gaze gets left in the storeroom.
Then there is the total lack of respect given to married people when they are out on their own - most people have absolutely no compunction in hitting on married women or men. It's that consumptive LKF thing where no-one ever gets old, nothing matters but the here and now, where recklessness has no consequences. HK allows for the perpetuation of an early 20s party lifestyle in one's 30s and 40s, and can have an effect not unlike a wrecking ball.
I was confronted with this recently when I was approached to have an affair with a married woman. I thought about it and decided not to. It made me clarify my thinking and my direction. I didn't want to be a hostile agent on a marriage even if, as she said, she had worked it all out in her head and everything was stable (she just had a need she had to go outside the marriage for). Maybe that's OK - I'm, not judging her others like it - but someone else can do the job. Of course who wants to spend any time or energy on a dead end, but even if I was really interested in this person as a partner (which I'm not) morally I wouldn't be prepared to disrupt an existing relationship situation. I might not have felt this way ten years ago but I do now. It doesn't come from any religious sense of morality (I'm not religious) or from any reifying of marriage as an institution (I don't); but more from a sense of how precious and difficult love is, and how because of that we all have obligations to support the aspirations of people trying to navigate it, whether its us or another couple, and not to debase it through dishonour or recklessness.
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a-mann,
Those are a couple of great posts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I found your comments very interesting and easy to relate to in regards to yourself being able to accept your faults but your partner not being able to.
During some of my tougher times, this was a big issue/problem in my situation and it took a while to get through this. I came to the realization early on in this that there's two in any relationship and if my marraige had come to this somewhere along the way I had to accept some responsibility. Without accepting this, I would be in no position to move forward.
Unfortunately it took a lot of time for my wife to come to the same realization (there was a lot of denial and attacking from her). Fortunately when she went for some alone counselling things changed on that front and we were able to move forward.
I also found your last comments in your last post very interesting. Spot on!
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. For someone who has gone a different route and is have continued on with my marriage, your comments are very refreshing. I think any of us that have gone through this know that there are times when there seem like there are no answers to some things and we wish there was. During such times it's just nice to know that someone else has maybe experienced something similar and that your not alone.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
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CODA - Here's a track I came across the other day from the new REM CD "Around the Sun". Like it alot.
"Final Straw"
As I raise my head to broadcast my objection
As your latest triumph draws the final straw
Who died and lifted you up to perfection?
And what silenced me is written into law.
I can't believe where circumstance has thrown me
And I turn my head away
If I look I'm not sure that I could face you.
Not again. not today. not today.
If hatred makes a play on me tomorrow
And forgiveness takes a back seat to revenge
There's a hurt down deep that has not been corrected.
There's a voice in me that says you will not win.
And if I ignore the voice inside,
Raise a half glass to my home.
But it's there that I am most afraid,
And forgetting doesn't hold. it doesn't hold.
Now I don't believe and I never did
That two wrongs make a right.
If the world were filled with the likes of you
Then I'm putting up a fight. I'm putting up a fight.
Putting up a fight. make it right. make it right.
Now love cannot be called into question.
Forgiveness is the only hope I hold.
And love- love will be my strongest weapon.
I do believe that I am not alone.
For this fear will not destroy me.
And the tears that have been shed
It's knowing now where I am weakest
And the voice in my head. in my head.
Then I raise my voice up higher
And I look you in the eye
And I offer love with one condition.
With conviction, tell me why.
Tell me why.
Tell me why.
Look me in the eye.
Tell me why.
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Those words are so lovely they made me cry. I feel for everyone ending a relationship/marriage for whatever reason is one of the most horrific experience you can go through. I don't know a single person who hasn't been on the recieving end or giving end at some stage of their lives so we all know how painful it is, but we also know that with time and compassion we manage to be happy again. Whatever you do, if it is done from a place of love than that is good. Focus on the positives and don't look back for if you do you will never move forward.
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I am new to this but was watching this thread when it was unravelling. To be perfectly honest it was all just too close to home for me to comment on. I was wondering how things turned out for you. I am in a similar situation, although I as the mother left HK with our baby but have now returned to "see what happens" or to see if we can move past it all. It is hard, painful, and so much worse when there is one or more children involved. To be perfectly honest I don't know if you can ever forgive, I think the best you can hope for is to accpet it and move on, but even that seems impossible sometimes. It has been over 2 years for us, we have never moved past it, not apart or together. I don't think you can ever forgive, I guess you have to weigh up what you will gain if you try to move past it with that person who hurt you so much. It is hard to be in a relationship with someone, to go to bed beside them every night, adn mourn the loss of them because they are different to you now and you fear you will never love the way you did because it will make you vulnerable again. Will you ever be able to open yourself up to the best things that a relationship can offer with this person again? Or will you need to, or even do it without wanting to, shutdown part of your heart, part of who you are to protect yourself and get through the days. Two years on I still have moments where I am as angry as ... well i am not sure of the rules here so you work it out! Anyway, I digress, really I just wanted to know if you have reached any decisions yet.
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Boo1
17 yrs ago
.................................
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I must admit I have not been following the threads for quite a while now, but a friend of mine urged me to have a read and now that I have I feel its appropriate to respond.
Firstly I would like to deeply thank those of you who took the time to write and offer suggestions. A very humbling experience for me.
As for my current situation. A few months ago I went back to the UK to visit with my children and discuss options with my wife. Following that trip we agreed that she would move back to HK with the kids and I would take a separate apartment close to them. Today we are still following the arrangement and it appears to be working quite well from the kids perspective, which is the only one I am concerened about.
As for my wife and I this whole ordeal has forced me to see certain realities that perhaps I was unable to before. I am speaking here to all husbands who follow this site and to anyone who might be able to pass on the warnings. I was the typical expat husband. I worked stupidly long hours at the office and my attention continued to be at the office even when i was at home. I was suprised by my wife's affair only because as I mentioned in the thread I assumed all was OK and she was happy. What I didn't see then, but recognise now, that my wife and best friend was desperately lonely and unhappy but was putting on the bravest face she could for me and the kids. I became so consumed with my work that I forgot to be consumed by my family, and lost sight of what I was really working so hard for - to provide them with a happy life.
I was never one to hang out at the bars after work or get caught up in the trappings of areas such as wanchai or lan kwai fong. I have always remained 100% faithful to my wife and it never crossed my mind to stray. How could it - my mind was too pre-occupied with my own inflated sense of importance.
Whilst I still firmly believe that my wife's situation does not forgive the fact she slept with another man, I can certainly now see how it is possible for it to happen. I cant forgive what she did but I now share the blame for it with her. We are going through weekly counselling sessions and taking it one day at a time now.
To all the other married guys & fathers out there who work their asses off for their family. Please do not forget what you are here for. It is so easy to get caught up in the competitive nature of business over here and show that you are devoting more hours than the next guy. When I lay on my death bed years from now I am not going to lay there wishing i had spent more time in the office - I'm gonna regret the time I did not spend with the people who needed me most.
After you read this guys buy your wife a bunch of flowers for no reason. Book a dinner out somewhere just for the hell of it. Split a bottle of wine and talk about your first date together. Take the afternoon off and take the kids down to the beach or to Toys R Us. Or just roll around on the carpet with them.
This may sound cliche'd and a few months ago I would have agreed. But you never really understand your actions or the impact of them as clearly as you do when a seven year old girl with tears in her eyes describes them to you, one who knows no cynicism or anything about cliches.
I was an arrogant selfish twat. My wife was a sad and unhappy woman. We both caused this and now we are both working to fix it. I have no idea where we will end up but wherever it is it's going to be a place we both fought with everything we had to get to.
Chaps - dont make my mistakes. And ladies - make sure you dont let your happy game face become your real face. If you are unhappy talk to your husband before you do something that you will regret.
Take care everyone and thanks again.
D
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Meems
17 yrs ago
Pls don't blame yourself, you were only doing it for the family. Forget the past and have a brand new start with you family, appreciate your time together. Remember, if you forgive... you must forget and never bring it up in an arguement.
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MayC
17 yrs ago
I'm married with a kid... and I don't know why but I was hooked on your thread.
My hubby is always away in China and I've had countless heart to heart talks with him about his absence from our family life. He tells me that he cannot do anything about it because it is his family business and he has a responsibility to run it.
I'm left in charge of our family and despite being a foreigner in HK, I have to make all decisions for our family including control over our finances. He simply does not have time.
It is very tough. It is a very lonely journey for me. I live far from the expat community here and in a very "local" area of HK. I don't have many friends, or rather if I want to meet my friends, I have to travel 1.5 hours away. It gets hard to do so with a baby in tow. Lucky for me, I have another friend who's in the same situation and we can share our despair and we can support each other when we feel we can't handle it anymore. It is tough. We go through bouts of depression... simply because we have given up everything to come here for our hubbies (including our career) and now being left alone on most days. It's like I'm crying out for support, for him to be there with me.... I go to bed at nights without my hubby and think, "This is not what I envisioned my family life to be". I get so mad at him for making me feel "stuck". And when things become unbearable, I would say that if I knew my life was going to be like this, I wouldn't have married him. It's hard.
While I believe there is NO excuse to have an affair, your statements about loneliness, dreams of a loving family life being crushed etc are all so real. Years ago, I wouldn't have said these things, but I'm living through it now.
And I can guarantee that I will not get calls from him while he is away unless he needs me to do something for him.
Do I doubt his love for me? No I don't. Do I think he's having an affair? No I don't... but I do believe his work has left him little time for me, as his wife and his daughter. And yes, I do not feel appreciated and yes I feel lonely.
Good luck for the future, as JC puts it. Forgiving is hard, but forgetting is even harder. I guess the trick is not to make yourself forget, this will be impossible but to accept what has happened and do the best you can to live each day to the fullest.
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Hi Sabbster
I'm glad you've taken concrete steps to rebuild the marriage together with yr wife. I pray you and wife succeed.
I was in a similar situation thou there was no infedility (I still believe so) & she's given up on working things out. I had felt she prioritised her work/friends over family (we have 2 young angels). She also loved her parties and at our lowest ebb, had even stayed out returning the next morning with hangover. I had my doubts but my principle is what I do not see did not happen.. until I saw some suggestive photos. Even after those episodes and her admittance of suitors and propositions, she claimed she was never unfaithful. I chose to believe her & trust her.. forgive and move on. Because I too chose to accept responsibilty for having pushed her away with my time spent on work, imposing my standards on her and basically hurting her with my non-attention and ignoring the signs. I, like you, thought I was doing my best working my a** off providing for the family.
After she proposed separation the first time almost a year ago, we both went on a roller coaster ride of denial, anger, sadness, etc. We sought counselling too and I moved out of our matrimonial home, moved back in and recently moved out again.. both times at her request. Even after my recent move-out, I still chose to believe we can work things out because I know I still love her.. what more the children. But she said she doesn't love me anymore and is tired of forcing herself to rebuild the marriage.
I must be frank that there is some anger in me for her making such a family-shattering decision on behalf of the kids.. but I honestly do pity her too for perhaps the trauma of our past has affected her ability to make best judgement of the situation. I've asked her closest family/friends to offer support/advice (at the risk of her accusing of being a further obnoxious bastard) with genuine concern for her well-being but all has come to nought.
I've turned to religion and found some comfort and strength. Family/friends/strangers (like those here) have also provided some comfort.. but I'm emotionally sapped and can no longer be distracted by another round of roller-coaster ride. It has affected my work and losing my job will be a bigger blow. I guess this is the time for me to bide my time for the next wave. It's heartening to read of others who have survived a divorce. I've learnt to confront my fears for how my children will cope and turn out (esp. if she choose move back to Jkt). Of course, my interactions with them before and after my move-out has also provided me some comfort that I can still be a strong influence to guide them in growing happily if I don't choose to disregard their best interest and staying away from them. Thus I've been spending more time engaging them and glad to see the results.
I've since received her lawyer's letter. This is the 2nd time after she agreed to put off filing papers in the court after the 1st letter a few months ago. And today she told me her lawyer will wait another 2 weeks for me to reply! If someone asks me now, will I take her back later? I'd say yes still. The earlier thread about forgiving can lead to loving someone more does hold some water. Some may say I'm stupid to do so.. but I guess I should count myself lucky to be able to show mercy when I'm in a position to do so. Better than being at the reverse end, isn't it? I used to approach my situation asking her for mercy and forgiveness and magnanimity in taking me back.. and to rebuild the marriage. After 12 months, I'm now much more at peace with myself and come to realise sometimes some things just do not turn out the way we want them to. It's a very humbling experience. And I'm glad I went throught it now rather than never.
My simple msg to all out there. Cherish what you have in front of you and act on it.
Rice.
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