Expat marriage stress - NOT SEX

There have been many threads on this site about stresses to marriage for expats.


These often focus, or slide into the topic of infidelity.


There are many other stresses on marriages, and on the accompanying spouses. I would like to talk about some of these.


I would like to completely stay off the topic of indidelity as this has been more than covered in other threads.


For example

The role of the accompanying spouse.

Culture clash.

Giving up a career and not being able to pick this up in the new country.

Feeling isolated when your partner is away on business.

Finding some way to feel useful

Lving in a country that does not share your culture, You can't speak the language.

Tigerbay, I think the list you gave is applicable to any marriage, not just expat ones and not just ones in HK. But here's my 2 cents worth...


The role of the accompanying spouse - that really is for you and your spouse to decide. If you have children and not working or not able to work in HK, then I think you should be more involved with them. Be more active and participate in their school activities. If you don't have children, you need to be proactive and find ways to support your partner, in whatever capacity. Build a good social network for yourself, away from your spouse and their friends or their colleagues. There are many associations you can join that will introduce you to people from your country or people with similar interests.


Culture clash - learn about the local culture and try to meet more locals, whether they're your neighbours or other people you encounter. Unless you come from that culture, I think there will always be a clash, even if you have lived in a different culture for years. There are just certain things that cannot be explained or learned within a culture, unless you grew up in it, which a foreigner will never pick up. And you need to understand that and accept it. Do the best you can.


Giving up a career and not being able to pick this up in the new country - think outside the box and get whatever work you can, either related to your previous career or perhaps it's time to start a new career, using the skills you already have. Or do charity work.


Feeling isolated when your partner is away on business - is it possible for you to occassionally accompany your spouse on business, say, for long trips? You should also keep yourself busy and build up a good social network for yourself, so when they're away, you're not left "alone" with nothing to do. (See my comment about joining clubs and associations) Keep in regular touch with your spouse while they're away, even if it's just a text in the morning or evening to say hi.


Finding some way to feel useful - if you can't work, try charity work. There is always an opportunity to do volunteer work, whether it's for animals, children, the elderly or the disabled. Or take up classes to learn a new skill, maybe learn the local language, this will keep you busy and will be useful. (Also addresses your next concern)


Lving in a country that does not share your culture, You can't speak the language - refer to my point about culture clash. You cannot expect to fit completely and seemlessly into a foreign culture, that is unrealistic. Try and learn the local language (that will also keep you busy) even if it's just a few phrases. There are many people offering language exchange on this site or even in something like HK Magazine.


Hope that gives you some ideas.

Sorry, I didn't see you were based in Shanghai, but my points still apply, just change the HK to Shanghai! LOL

this is useless. most expats dont have any interest in the local culture, the only contact with local is driver/maid/nanny.


completely isolated! why worry about local culture in first place?

I think your experience when living abroad in a foreign culture is what you make of it. If everyone couldn't be bothered with finding out about the local culture in which they lived, no matter who it is they come into contact with, be it the driver/maid/nanny, then they will always feel isolated and a "foreigner". It is also this sort of attitude that locals dislike and that's why they're rude to "stupid gwailos and gwaipos". And I'm overseas Chinese, didn't grow up in HK, but now moved back, so I can see both sides of the coin.

Why worry?


Because some of us are here long term. and some don't have a driver, ayi, maid etc.


And to say that most expats don't have any interest in the local culture is a wildly speculative assumption.


I can only speculate as to the 'type' of person/expat refered to.

tigerbay, I originally came to Hong Kong to be with my girlfriend (now wife) and left a rather good job for that. During the first year or so, I had some of the problems you mentioned: Feeling isolated, because I didn't live anywhere near other expats and doubting myself for sacrificing a career in my home country. This certainly had some negative effect on our relationship. But then I realized that my attitude was the root of the problem and started learning Chinese (a great activity to avoid feeling useless) and enlarging my social circle. Now (10+ years after I arrived) I am very happy with my decisions. I know I would have had a much better career if I had not come here, but this is unimportant compared to all the wonderful experiences I had living in Hong Kong.

Tigerbay, I relate. I came here 5 yrs ago now (what an accomplishment) and the first 2 yrs were really really hard for all the topics you mentioned above. The only difference was I was working, but we were starting a new business from scratch and NO ONE to help us - only people doubting us. So hard. Even working I was useless because I cannot speak Chinese and felt a bit of a dead weight.


China is nothing like HK for isolation. I go to HK for a quick fix of Western culture, and shopping in a familiar environment. I am sure it is not always easy to live there but you cannot compare it to China. They have Cheese available in most supermarkets after all.


I got through my black days by really trying hard to focus on the good points of living in China. Also reminding myself that if it ever got to the point where the bad points outweighed the good, that I would then move back to my home country. Luckily my husband was supportive in that and told me if it ever got really too hard we could go back, and also it just never got that bad.


Good things - great opportunities for work, an easy lifestyle in many ways, a full time aiyee costs well less than USD200/month, so I have used a washing machine or iron less than 10 times in 5 yrs. I try to pretend I don't know where we keep the mop....also everything is on your doorstep, restaurants, supermarket, dvd shop, wet markets. Shops are open so late. There are some amazing restaurants in Guangzhou now. And those great huge massage places which are open 24 hours with a range of treatments, manicure, pedicure, buffet - you can't get that in a western country (or not for these prices). Local manicure + pedicure for RMB50. Hair wash and blow dry for next to nothing.


Bad points - air quality, no idea how to ask directions, very reliant on people you know to translate so you end up hiding away, shop assistants hover in front of you, lack of grass and trees.


In Guangzhou there is a Women's group GWIC - Shanghai should have one or a few. It might be good to make a few contacts there - Expats in China tend to be extremely friendly and helpful to each other because we have all "been there". At least then you could have a girlfriend or two to have a wine with when your partner is away.


I have come across several spouses who, unable to get work in their career of choice, and bored not working, end up working for one of the consulates - it is worth contacting your consulate and others (UK, Australian, any English speaking country) - they usually like hiring people already living here and the native language skills are very important.


The Culture Clash really takes time and a hell of a lot of patience. It takes ages through trial and error. So many embarrassing situations - I still cringe, but finally I learned not to be embarassed and do that smiley thing Chinese do when faced with something they cannot handle. Smile, maintain eye contact and say "yes, yes" - who cares?? It will be OK. I have also been known to throw a coffee cup at a wall in sheer frustration over nonsensical, illogical replies from a staff member. who got to clean up the mess? me! I am very grateful to China for finally teaching me to count to ten (something my mother tried in vain to all my life).


Learning Chinese is a great idea from seb-in-hk. It will so be worth the effort of time and money. If you don't know where to start, try one of the courses advertised in THAT's SHANGHAI magazine - I always think those are overpriced, but do a short course first until you can find a good course through one of the Chinese universities, which will probably have better teaching and be less expensive.

I've been married to a local Hongkonger for 7 years. Here's my input:-


The role of the accompanying spouse:-

I agree that when I made the choice to come here, I also agreed to "fit in" to his culture/lifestyle. However, I disagree that this should be a one-sided thing. I believe that my spouse should learn about me too - to learn that I am different and to accept me for who I am.


Culture clash - this is VERY hard especially when there are inlaws involved who will do anything in their power to force their culture onto me. Eg. You MUST do this or you MUST do that. Cancel your plans. This is HOW we do it, your ways are wrong. Your daughter should be brought up the CHINESE way etc etc. I agree that filial piety is important.. that we honour our parents, but I disagree with his cultural thinking that the parents should dominate our lives or that whatever his mother says goes. Now that my husband and I have our own family, I feel that he should discuss with me whatever HIS family wants to do so that we can make a joint decision and that our daughter's upbringing shouldn't be that of his parents, but our two cultures joined together. I am really unhappy that his parents think that because I want to have my own life with my husband, it means I am not honouring them.


Giving up a career - I did that too. I used to work for a top accounting firm in Sydney and I was the youngest senior there. I had my uni friends working as audit trainees under me. I loved my work and craved for a challenge. I gave it all up to come to HK. Auditing here was tough. Everyone worked 7 days. It was quite tough trying to find an accounting job too because most require Cantonese/Mandarin skills. In the end, we decided that I would work for his famly business. It worked out really well. I enjoyed being an all rounder. However his eldest brother got married and soon both him and him wife started criticizing us, aking my job in the company hell. He would throw insults and would say, "You know, you really should learn Mandarin (or Canto or learning how to read and write chinese)". Then when I enrolled, he ended up saying, "The company will only pay half" when before that, the company paid for all his German studies. He's continued throwing insults at me and my work - all related to language. He even said, "I'm not paying 3 thousand to buy you an English windows because you can learn to use the Chinese one".


Feeling isolated when partner is away on business:-

My husband only comes back twice a week. At times I get really upset and will say things like, "If your job is so important, why did you get married? Why did you have children?" At other times, my life centres upon my little daughter and as long as we're together, that is all that matters. I feel angry most of the time and I think this is impacting on our relationship in a very negative way. Sometimes I feel like throwing in the towels and moving back to Sydney. I feel like a volcano that's waiting to erupt.


Learning Chinese is a great idea, I agree. I have done that too. I know enough Canto to carry on a conversation anywhere I go and I also know enough chinese characters to read menus at restaurants (well, not enough but at least I can recognise my favourite dishes and know which ones are fish, chicken, pork, beef, lamb etc). My other problem is that his family does not pay us enough as well. We cannot afford international schooling for my daughter, let alone having to pay for my chinese lessons. We are also undergoing fertility issues and should we require surgery or anything more than our current treatment, I don't know how to pay for those either.


Finding someway to feel useful

I don't feel useless, only anger at work, when my BIL deliberately insults me because of the language barrier, my inlaws having some ways of criticizing my ways and angry that my husband does not understand where I'm coming from.


I agree with Tigerbay, that these problems aren't just "surface-based", and not just about gweilos or gweipos refusing to blend in. I am not one of them. When I first came here, I sat in front of the tv watching at least one canto movie (with english subtitles) a day to learn the language.

MayC : my heart goes out to you but please do realise that most parents , and brothers-in-law would probably treat us in a similar way ...it is what older people do all over the world since time began ...trying to hold on to the old ways with which they have become familiar.. Most people stop learning when they leave school/ get married / start their own business not realising they do NOT know it all. They stop progressing. ..

we are all still learning..If you remember this when they bully you and realise that even if they did make you bring your daughter up in their old ways she will be behind. Think how hard Princess Diana fought and look how well her sons turned out so she managed to bring the whole of the Royal family into the 20th Century almost singlehandedly.

Those bullies are just fearful and jealous and are not your friends but instead are frenemies and fameney ..and you CAN live with them KNOWING what they are like .

Your own personal time could be the only times when you feel free and relaxed. I very strongly suggest you work/live outside of their environment so you can make your own friends.

Take care

shirleywbird, thank you, you've written beautifully.


One thing you're probably spot on is that with the inlaws,we CAN live with them knowing what they are like. It's silly to try to change them or to expect that they will see things my way. I am much better off telling myself this is just the way they are, LIVE with it and ACCEPTING that they are different.


Trouble looms when I try to "fit in" (doesn't work) or try to make them fit in with me. Perhaps the best way is to just accept our differences and to learn to live with it.


To Maggie and shirleywbird....


In terms of friends, I am lucky that I have my own circle of friends that I meet regularly albeit the fact that I live so far away from them.


Working outside is the bit I need to seriously think about - weighing up the advantages/disadvantages of doing so.


Thank you all.