Posted by
trinityuk
16 yrs ago
Is Miranda's husband doing the right thing by telling her that he slept with another person?
Just wondering, how many couples out there are willing to tell you partner this 'big secret of yours'?
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lets do a survey, let see how many people other there are willing to confess....
women - 1 - no
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Survey
Man - no.
The other reason for people to confess is they get advice from a group of people on a forum who are not tangibly involved so they are often offering an opinion, but not considered advice.
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its hard to have to bear the guilt for the rest of your life though...if you really treasure the marriage.
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Ok, I know this thread is old, but I HAVE to comment!
Does anyone actually believe that the spouse (who has been cheated on) has a right to know?
Would anyone actually admit to cheating because of that reason?
I mean - in a marriage, or any other long term relationship where fidelity is expected, you are making the choice to be with that person based on their commitment to you (including fidelity), as well as based on who that person is (and his/her actions, behaviours, ideas, opinions, etc).
So, if you discover your partner turns out to be a child-molesting serial killer - you might just reserve your right to pack up and leave him/her.
In the same way, if that spouse of yours, the spouse you believe to be faithful to you, turns out to be a cheater (or cheat once, or whatever!), you still have that same right to make a decision about whether you want to continue the relationship.
Now, if that information is knowingly being withheld from you (for whatever reason, be it to keep on cheating, or to 'spare your feelings'), then you are being robbed of that choice.
THAT, in my opinion, is worse than the cheating itself - being denied the freedom of making a decision based on the truth of a situation.
What do you think?
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Well said, hellokitty, could not agree with you more. Not knowing the truth is worse than being cheated on in the first place. Withholding the information may also result in other complications (such as health risks) to the unaware spouse. I would have even less respect for a person who never tells than one who admits after a one-time fling.
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Oh, I forgot one thing!
I also don't agree with telling *because you feel guilty*!
That is only to appease your own guilt! Such a selfish action to do it for that reason... to pass your burden on to someone else because you can't handle the guilt.
Obviously the end result is the same: telling the spouse, however the motivations really define a person's character.
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confess only when want out.
otherwise pay the price of guilt as you well deserve it, - all comes with a price., that is, for those do still have a sense of guilt.
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That is exactly the point I'm making: basically you are only wanting to tell your spouse the truth based on how it will benefit YOU.
So, are you saying that you would deny your spouse (the one you supposedly love) the right to make a choice on how to spend their lives. Whether they do or don't want to continue to be with you?
Hmmm...
Ok, another way to look at it. Would you be annoyed to learn that your spouse had been withholding the truth (about whatever topic), and that truth may have led you make a different, life changing decision?
Scenario: You have a job. You really like that job. You like the boss, and your perception is that the boss likes and respects you and thinks you work hard. Which you do. You don't get paid overtime, however, knowing that your boss really appreciates your hard work, you often put in extra hours. You stay in your job (despite other jobs coming your way), because you reason that you like the job, the boss, etc, and money is not everything - especially when you are happy with what you are doing.
Then for some reason, you come to learn that your boss thinks you are a moron, and that all the 'work' you have been doing is actually worthless, and that your boss (and even your colleagues), have just been playing you for a bit of entertainment.
(Clearly a far-fetched scenario, but you follow the idea)
Now, had you known the 'truth' about the situation, rather than bumbling along under a pretense, you WOULD have moved on to a workplace where you would be valued and so on.
BUT, that crucial piece of information that was required for that decision-making was withheld from you. If you had known this, you would have been able to make a decision based on what to do next. You may have stayed in the workplace, but perhaps you would have taken an opportunity elsewhere.
Same goes for marriage - we choose a person based on many things. We learn to trust that person, and if, for any reason, something changes, we deserve the opportunity to revise our decision to stay or move on. If we are not given that opportunity, then we are being robbed of our most important possession: the freedom to make choices.
Robbed by the person who is supposed to love us most of all!
Disgusting!
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"THAT, in my opinion, is worse than the cheating itself - being denied the freedom of making a decision based on the truth of a situation."
Kitty, i agree in principle with you. The reality however is another, i.e. as flashback said, once you have cheated it's a question of damage control. Most people's choice when being cheated on, is to get out of the marriage and not to forgive. As such your right to choice is rather theoretical if the answer to the choice is basically known upfront already.
So assuming the cheater genuinely wants the treasure the marriage and he/she realized that the cheating as a mistake not to be repeated, then it can be the better solution not to confess.
btw, i would think that the above issue of wanting to know is mainly a female viewpoint. personally - as a man - i would not want to know whether my wife has cheated on me (as long as i have no clue of course)
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What on earth is 'the right to know'? Not aware of any such right. I mean in the USA you have the right to remain silent etc but the right to know does not exist. In relationships and politics, you have two camps: pragmatists and utopian idealists. As someone firmly in the pragmatist camp, I would say let sleeping dogs lie.
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A woman's heart will be torn apart when finding out her spouse's infidelity but we women still need & want to know....sounds crazy!
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LGMV - 'right' in the moral sense, rather than the legal sense.
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I have long been baffled by that the Western values seem to almost always demonstrate honesty and morality, except when it comes to cheating in a marriage/relationship.
Suppose you are in a business partnership with a good friend or sibling who entrusts you with management of the business. You take some money from the partnership to pay off personal debts without his/her knowledge. The chance of your partner finding out is slim to none and you decide not to tell cause doing so will jeopardize the friendship or family relationship. Wouldn't you agree not telling is still wrong, dishonest and immoral and that you probably should come clean with your friend/sibling?
Or say your child is bullied in school by another child whose parents are long time friends of yours. Your friends are aware of the bullying, discpline their child accordingly, but decide not to tell you about the incident in fear of losing the family friendship. Wouldn't you agree their not telling, on whatever basis, is still wrong, dishonest and immoral and that they probably should have told you?
Why is cheating on a spouse any different?
If I cheat on my spouse I would definitely tell simply because it is the right, honest and moral thing to do. Likewise I expect the same honesty if my spouse cheats on me. Cheating itself may be forgivable (unless it is a repeated offense), but the subsequent lying is not.
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paenme, your examples do not hold as the consequences for telling are not as grave as in the case of cheating.
i can understand your argument (and support it in principle) but you have to come up with better examples really
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If you think lying is unforgivable, then you must be an unforgiving person. How many lies do you encounter on a daily basis.
Give me a break. The "truth" is some theoretical notion that it will somehow make everything better. In fact, it is the complete opposite. Brutal honesty that you receive which you desire will destroy you, your attitude towards the person giving it and will make you more self-conscious especially if you had a fragile ego to begin with. Not many people can endure brutal honesty.
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Generally speaking, in marriages, cheating is NEVER forgiven nor forgotten. Is like a tiny crack that, slowly but surely, opens and expand and ends at the end of the marriage.
In the other hand, we are not debating whether cheating is right or wrong, or what is the meaning of "truth". You cheated, so shall you tell your spouse?
My answer: Absolutely NO. Too much risk for no reward. And there is NO reward for telling the truth about cheating.
Yes, you feel you betrayed the other person and all that, but guess what? the damage is done. If you want to "be good" from now on, just do it, but telling the other person...never.
I am a guy, so I speak from my court: No woman wants to know the truth, unless the truth is what she wants to hear.
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"I am a guy, so I speak from my court: No woman wants to know the truth, unless the truth is what she wants to hear."
Yup, I agree, but it is NOT just women. Nobody wants to know the truth if the truth hurts, but the truth will hurt a lot less than if the man keeps silent and she finds out.
So instead of finding yourself in the situation where you have to ask the question, why not THINK TWICE before committing such an act in the first place, right?
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I disagree, truth may hurt but I still want the truth. Truth may make one bitter and unhappy but it also makes one stronger and wiser.
You guys should know better, live examples are everywhere. Why did Nixon fall on his face after Water Gate? It was not so much about the wrongful act in the first place, but the fact he tried to cover it up. Why did the Americans lose respect for Clinton? It wasn't really about his fooling around, but the fact that he lied about it (and doing so under oath certainly did not help).
Great characters do not lie in whether a person makes a mistake, but in how honest he/she is about it.
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Oh boy! I notice team "don't tell" all have similar reasons: the relationship will end if I do tell.
That all points to: it's all about me, and I really don't care about the other person (in that I don't want to give them a choice about our relationship).
I'm sorry, but that is a poor way to treat someone, especially when it is supposed to be the person you love most. What a foundation for a relationship! Ignoring the actual cheating for a second, but basically you are having to lie (the term I will use where there is an absence of the truth) in order to keep your spouse in a relationship.
Sick!
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Most women who "want the truth" cannot handle the truth. I know women who went "crazy" when the confronted with the truth.
Ignorance is bliss.
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Mike - by the same token, perhaps all truths should be withheld when you deem that the person 'cannot handle' it?
So, if a person's parent or child dies, should we perhaps avoid the telling of that truth? It would be much better for everyone if we didn't have to go through that grief (aka 'not handling it')...
Sorry, don't buy it.
Of course most recipients of such news (cheating) will have some adverse reaction to it, but at least they have been given the information to make decisions about what to do with the rest of their lives (be it stay or go), rather than you deciding for them.
(Their) ignorance is (your) bliss.
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Agree with Mike. Truth leads to bunny boiling. Not worth the hassle.
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"Not worth the hassle" like Miss Venezuela says, is the key point.
The damage is done, and the reasons...well...let's say that is in everybody's best interest to say that "men would cheat no matter what" because if we open the pandora's box and start looking at reasons beyond the stereotypical one, women (yes, I am talking from the guy's point of view) will be further hurt. God forbid that women find out that, no matter what the TV says, we men cheat simply because our partner couldn't compete with a better deal.
The damage is done, hellokittyhk, and you are right, their ignorance is our bliss. We don't want to be fair, we don't want to do the right thing; we want to keep what we have.
And yes is mean and selfish. Welcome to the real world!
At a personal level I think that is very stupid. I used to cheat, but no I don't. What I do now may, however, be worst. I only go with whoever offer me the best. If someone better comes along and she is not willing to match the offer, I dump her. No, there is no cheating drama, but instead I have the "all men just want to have sex" one...women still don't get it...
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Being a sucker,and very stupid and honest to boot. My wife was told,when she was
able to understand English a lot better.About two years after we were married.She
was not happy,but both of us are very happy,and inseperable at this time.She was
always working fourteen to twenty two hours a day,and sometimes seven days a
week.Sometimes she would be out of the city,for two to four weeks at a time.
Now she is retired,and we alot of time together,and everyone is happy.
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I really hope, but probably should know better, that people do not base their moral and ethical code on 'Sex in the city'.
People already tried that with the bible and look what happened...
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hellokittyhk - a lot of what you say is spot on, I'm for fair play and respect too.
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"So, if a person's parent or child dies, should we perhaps avoid the telling of that truth? It would be much better for everyone if we didn't have to go through that grief (aka 'not handling it')..."
Death is something people have accepted as part of life, they know it will happen at some point in time - reality - so people have learned to deal with it when it comes. Unfortunately, cheating of a partner is something that most women think unreal. Their partners would NEVER cheat on them - that is what most women believe so when the ugly truth comes out, they just cannot handle it. They go mental, psycho does not even begin to describe them.
Ignorance is bliss works both ways. Blissful for the cheater so he/she does not have to deal with the drama, the separation he/she does not want and blissful for the unknowing partner because what he/she does not know will not hurt them.
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Let's face it. The lying cheaters do not love their spouses, not that much anyway, or they would not have cheated in the first place.
A significant (possibly the real) reason of lying about cheating that has not been mentioned is that not telling also provides the cheaters the benefit that the unaware spouses will continue to be trusting and unguarded, thereby allowing more freedom and leeway for future cheatings. If uncaught and the music never had to be faced, most cheaters are likely to cheat again, and again...
For the "not telling" supporters, ask yourselves - Would you not mind if your daughter or future daughter is married to a cheater who repeatedly kisses and doesn't tell, until eventually he finds that better partner and dumps your daughter and hurts her anyway (and if this goes on long enough she may have missed lots of chances to find a better and more decent guy). Wouldn't you wish that the cheating husband had the decency to just come clean in the first place and allowed her the choice to walk away and wise up?
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Mike, I disagree with your theory on death. If that were true, there wouldn't be any suicides following the death of a loved one, there wouldn't be long and enduring periods of depression over it either.
They might 'know', but generally a person mostly ignores that fact (subconsciously, anyway). Otherwise, few people would be able to 'operate' normally on a day to day basis.
As for women going 'mental' or 'psycho'... well, to be honest, I think the sufferers of psychopathy are not the women 'reacting' to a stimulus, but rather the ones who are both cheating, and hiding information from their partners (because basically it benefits them to do so). A psychopath is one who pursues their own interests (having an interest only in themselves), with complete disregard for anyone else.
As for 'what he/she doesn't know...' Wow!
Ok, how about the person in the recent forum, who has possibly been exposed to syphilis? And the countless others who have been exposed to STIs? And how about the mistresses who fall pregnant? And the legislation starting to pop up where a mistress has some right to a lover's property in the case of a long term affair?
And how about 'friends' that know of the indiscretion/s and are on the fence about coming clean on the cheater's behalf...
Eventually, for a lot of spouses, there will be something, somewhere along the line that will give away the caper.
Not, of course, that I'm advocating the 'telling' for any of these reasons, as I've already mentioned above.
Interesting debate :)
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Ignorance is bliss. Once people find out their partners cheated, their misery starts.
Cheaters who do not care if their partners find out about their indiscretions would be psychopaths and I have no doubt there are a number of those but if they do everything they can to hide what they have done or what they are doing, then they are not. When I said women go psycho once confronted with the ugly truth, I meant they behave irrationally and do things they eventually regret.
paenme
Don't forget that there are probably as many women that cheat as there are men. I don't think a woman would tell her husband that her boy toy got her pregnant while he was away on 1 of his business trips especially if she is financially dependent on her husband/if they have children.
I can only hope my daughter will be wise enough to know that for as long as she keeps her husband happy and satisfied, then there will be lesser chances of him getting tempted of cheating.
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Obviously there are cheating women as well, I only used the example since the "non telling" supporters on this post all appear to be men (who propably at some point cheated and lied about it will be my guess).
Are you suggesting, mike, it is entirely your daughter's responsibility to keep her husband happy and satisfied (a very chauvanist view I must say)? And don't kid yourself - there are always aspects in any relationship where one may not be completely happy and satisfied at all times, a cheater will find the slightest issue (or non-issue) as an excuse to cheat. So I've got news for you - no matter how hard your daughter tries to please her man (and that itself can be used as a reason to cheat for some), if she happens to be married to a cheater, he's going to cheat no matter what. And don't forget your daughter cannot turn back the clock or become a completely diff person altogether, all women age and become less attractive over time (and there are limits to what exercise or, less wisely, cosmetic surgeries can do) and there will always be that next younger, prettier or simply different, girl. In that case is it your daughter's fault too that she cannot compete with the new model in town? Besides, you did not really answer the question, which is if her husband does cheat, would you side with him in not telling while he continues "shopping" around out there?
So what if the spouses go "psycho" upon confronted with the truth? It is only natural human reaction. I know a guy who went psycho upon learning the news but that still does not justify not telling on the grander scheme of things when all perspectives are taken into consideration (unless the only perspectives you care about are the cheaters').
I agree with you most cheaters probably don't tell which reflects their flawed characters that make them likely to be cheaters in the first place. But simply because most cheaters do not tell doesn't justify the bevaviour as right. Since cheaters are not likely to come clean, others with the knowledge have the moral obligations to tell the innocent unsuspecting victims - the ignorant spouses.
Our society today largely sees cheating as a "personal & private" matter and shys away from telling the victims thinking it is not our place to doing so (unlike say when you spot someone being pick pocketed, you probably will or feel the obligation to point that out immediately). This mentality should gradually change now with reasons indicated in hellokitty's last post. There may be a growing moral responsibility for the knowing friends/relatives, or "the other man/woman" to come out and spill the beans. Informing the husbands/wives being cheated on is not just the honest thing to do, it also creates a win-win-win situation:
- The innocent spouses are aware of the truths and can make informed decisions about their lives, be it to leave for future opportunities to meet better and decent people (before it is too late), or stay with the cheaters yet with more wisdom to prevent and control over further incidents;
- The "other men/women" (if the cheatings had been longer term relationships) get a chance to cut their losses, move on and bring their lives back on track;
- As for the lying cheaters, they deserve the music to be faced and are likely to think twice next time when contemplating on cheating (and it sound like you've been there and done that). In the longer term it may help them become better and more disciplined spouses (albeit out of fear of consequences).
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paenme
You sound very bitter.
"Obviously there are cheating women as well, I only used the example since the "non telling" supporters on this post all appear to be men (who propably at some point cheated and lied about it will be my guess). "
You guessed wrong. I have never cheated on my wife nor did I cheat on past girlfriends when I was still single. I am a happy ( lucky) camper at home and I do my best to make my wife happy as much.
If my daughter's husband did cheat on her, then no I would hope he does not hurt her by coming out with the truth. I would hope he would not do it again and simply make up for it and do better by her. And if she keeps him happy and satisfied, it would lessen ( not totally eradicate) chances of him cheating, and same goes for him. If their relationship is hopeless, one can only hope they get divorced, and still not make it ugly by coming out with the useless truth that he cheated.
It goes both ways. A woman who is happy with her husband, feels loved, cared for, sexually satisfied will be a difficult ( not impossible) person to tempt to cheat unless she had a very high sex drive and thrives on excitement. Same with men. Why look elsewhere when you have got everything you need and want? Delusional women think that no matter how bad the relationship is with their husbands, how long a period of time they deny him sex and make him feel unwanted and desired, he will remain faithful.
While it is true that cheaters are selfish, the hardly innocent "victim" wife is also selfish to expect to be told the truth when it is not only her life that will be affected.
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"Are you suggesting, mike, it is entirely your daughter's responsibility to keep her husband happy and satisfied (a very chauvanist view I must say)?"
Unfortunately, that is something most women do not get as part of marriage. YES it is every wife/husband's responsibility to keep their spouse satisfied and happy. Sex is a marital obligation, not a privilege that your spouse has to earn. I think that married couples would happily strive to keep their partners happy.
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"While it is true that cheaters are selfish, the hardly innocent "victim" wife is also selfish to expect to be told the truth when it is not only her life that will be affected.
THAT is the best laugh of the week. I have tears rolling down my cheeks.
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As far as I know there is no reason for me to be bitter, not that I've ever been cheated on (that I know of anyway). I do, however, resent the thought of possibly truth being withheld from me, or being clueless about what is going on in my marriage. No matter how ugly and painful the truth is I firmly believe in one's right to know.
This is no different from performance at work, if I believe I am doing great while the boss thinks I suck and secretly hires someone else without ever telling me how I actually performed, is that really fair to me? Sure, my feelings have not been hurt, my confidence level remains high and I still have a job, but I don't for a moment think it is a bliss. I don't know about you, but I do not want to be in that position. Hiding the truth from me does not help with my career growth and is robbing me of the opportunity to further improve myself or find a job that I am better qualified for.
You are so certain that the cheated spouses will go psycho or mental when confronted with truth, how could you be so sure if you've never experienced it? Refer to the new post today titled "Affair - Has anyone gone through divorce.." where the OP finding out about her husband's affair has not only been empowered by the gaining of this information and is dealing with it quite rationally, your complete underestimate of a woman's ability and intelligence left much to be desired. You also assume all cheaters do it because the innocent spouses have or have not done things they should have, but that is frequently not the case. In many marriages the cheaters may simply grow tired of the same gig and are looking for something new and exciting.
Your only point that I agree with is that marriages are mutual responsibilities, both husbands and wives must strive to nurture the relationship and please/accommodate each other, and support one another through good times and bad.
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"While it is true that cheaters are selfish, the hardly innocent "victim" wife is also selfish to expect to be told the truth when it is not only her life that will be affected."
Yeah and the whistleblowers of Water Gate, Monica Gate, Enron and Lehman Brothers should all be shot as their acts affected hundreds of millions of lives.
Honesty is the best policy. Let the truth be known.
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For all the guys who say ignorance is bliss, women go crazy when they are told -rather discover, i imagine in your cases- the truth, I have a question:
You find a woman you like, you love her, at least you love as much as you're able to, and you have great sex. You couldn't ask for more...
Thing you don't know: she is a transsexual.
Now: ignorance is bliss, right? So best for you never finding out, and best for her never telling you.
Right?
Otherwise she could just turn around and give you back all your arguments written here!
And God, if only you did find out, I know some people who might just... "go crazy", is it...?? :D
PS: no intention to offend anybody, especially the transsexual community.
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yes ahacha, ignorance is really bliss in this case
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For me cheaters are a combination of the following nature:
mainly no balls, and...no balls, and a little bit of ...no balls.
Unhappy about who you live with? Grow balls and leave then, you know, we women do it, so why can't you? Too scared of course! Ah la la la la....
There might be fear for your money? Grow balls and get over the fear.
Fear of losing your kids? Grow balls and lose the fear.
It's all fear fear fear and cowardice.
Don't want to tell or admit the wife the truth, panicking about her reaction, rejection, screams? Fear fear fear........just-grow-balls....
PS: I hope this is still acceptable language? As English is not my native language but this is commonly heard, I guess it is...
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It's funny how the women seem to get bent out of shape regarding cheating and the resulting lies while the men seem to handle it with a bit of composure.
As both men and women cheat, that speaks volumes to me.
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ahacha. It's the balls that are causing the problem in the first place. And it has nothing to do about being unhappy; it's about more and varied sex. A lot of men just need to keep themselves ticking over so why cause all the this trouble? Makes no sense.
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Ringo: gross generalisation.
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Hellokitty - really?
From this thread it's not.
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LGMV: the balls that are causing the problem, haha, indeed.
Anyway, who is blaming a guy for wanting/chosing to have as much and as varied sex as he can?
He can make that choice. But why why why wanting to impose it on somebody, and to make sure they are unaware of it to avoid losing that somebody? It's like predator regarding the partner, just accept to release the partner and go on and have your life.
It doesn't make sense to live with risks of losing (esp when it comes to the money, he, guys) for a life of fun when you can have a life of fun without any risks.
Why cheating if what you want is multiple sex partners; just have the guts to live your life as you want, no need to embark anybody in it who has different expectations thatyou have no intention of respecting...
I go back to cowardice for almost all type of cheaters; I think differently for those who happen to have real love feelings for somebody developping without having meant it; these are facts of life. But for those greedy who cheat for the pleasure of multiplying sexual adventure: open your eyes, you don't have to be in a relationship for that! Spare a human being of imposing a fake man by their side. Would you put a personal ad writing serial cheater and lier looks for female for love? No, why?
Haaaa, no woman would fancy you, that's right... Knowing that, you still feel you are an attractive and desirable person? Only by pretending to be somebody else, how sad....
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ahacha. Well, when the guy got married perhaps he thought it would be easy not to stray. However, the years kick in and the ladies are still pretty.
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Understood.
So, what makes him stay in his marriage?
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Perhaps doesn't want to lose his wife and kids; cause trouble and distress.
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That's what I say about being a coward.
Does something, knows the potential consequences, but takes the risk, but doesn't accept the consequences. Nothing brave in that. Brave: knows he wants a free life full of sex from multiple partners, has the guts to go ahead with his life choices by not imposing them on others.
Anyway, life of a cheater: doesn't just cheat on the partner, cheats on himself as well: believes wrongly that the partner loves them. The partner doesn't love THEM, they love somebody else who they imagine he is. So the cheater is cheated about the loves he receives too. Their wife cheats on them by loving somebody else who has nothing to do with who the cheater in fact is.
Too philosophical? Badly expressed?
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And still a complete lack of balls...
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ahacha. What's this got to do with bravery and cowardice? We're talking about sex here; not storming a machine gun nest.
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oh no, don't tell me i have to demonstrate that it is cowardice... it is just too obvious...
ok, is "fear" a word you can relate to better? i mean for me, it's all about the same.
er, by the way, no it is not a discussion about sex, it is a discussion about cheating and then telling or not telling.
something else: i am curious about your last expression: i've never heard it before and am unsure about its meaning? (sounds funny though)
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Its very simple. You cheat. If you don't want things to change in your life, and you can get away with it, then you don't tell.
Selfish? Of course it is, but that's human nature, that's reality.
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mike204, can we hear your thoughts on marrying a transsexual unknowingly please?
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hahaha of course ignorance is bliss, for as long as I don't know, I'm happy.
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:D
can you describe your feelings/emotions, your thoughts and your actions after 4 years of marriage when you find out by total chance?
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Ahacha, hard to say because I will never be in that situation.
Would be better to ask how it felt for men who were so wasted in a bar and took out a ladyboy thinking she was female and only found out the next morning. ;)
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Ha, mike204, it is not because it is rare that it cannot happen to you!
But that is not the point, it is an exercise of imagination.
Surely you have lots of it? ;)
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Ahacha, I'm very much happily married so I know it will never happen to me.
I would imagine these scenarios:
1. Man is so in love and would be heartbroken with the news, but would have enough love in him for his wife to forgive and continue the relationship.
2. Man also in love but not enough to continue relationship and immediately file for divorce. But then I would think that the marriage would be null and void from the beginning so not sure divorce would be necessary.
Inexcusable but understandable why the wife withheld this important information and I'm guessing whatever course of action the man takes would also depend on the how the relationship has been in the 4 years they have been together. Surprising what love can do. What other people would find unforgivable, a person very much in love would not.
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"mike204, can we hear your thoughts on marrying a transsexual unknowingly please?"
HA HA that is hilarious and good metaphor, men everywhere are spluttering at the thought of it, but no of course it would never happen to you right, but can you imagine the feelings of deceipt and betrayal and loss of trust and utter disgust I wonder?
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tiny / abacha,
what is it about transexuals that bothers you? as a man, if walks like a hottie, looks hot, behaves hot, then she must be hot
i do not see an issue even if you find out later as long as the love is strong enough. i think you are just stereotyping.
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Men get cheated on just as much as women. They just react differently.
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"Would be better to ask how it felt for men who were so wasted in a bar and took out a ladyboy thinking she was female and only found out the next morning. ;)"
That wouldn't really as deceiptive a situation as that of the transsexual who never said anything. The ladyboy could have just assumed that you knew; and there is no further intention behind just sex.
The scenario of the transsexual is meant to inspire -in the man who reads openly and in good faith- the feelings of deceipt, etc, as perfectly described by Tiny. In my opinion, what it would trigger in a man is pretty similar to the emotions triggered in a woman who finds out about her cheating husband.
Something else: people assume that betrayed ladies who stay with their husbands are those who love them the most. In my opinion, loving and reasons for staying are playing on 2 separate levels. Everybody knows that it will never be the same again after that; of course, they live with a new person, someone they didn't fully know before, and they didn't find out suddenly a new fantastic quality about him, they found out he is untrustworthy. That's big. Plus, you can cheat one day and never repeat it (or can you??), but being untrustworthy is not something you can just stop, it can carry across plenty of situations.
I think you can have differents scenarios, amongst which: the less strongly you love your partner, the less hurt you'll be, and your all world is a less likely to be complete chaos. Could be that the lady can cope with staying in that relationship after all, if it brings its advantages, whatever they might be.
For others not so crazy in love, it might be the good opportunity to get out of a relationship they didn't like to the extent of forgiving.
For those who really did love their cheating partner, the atrocity of finding out about such a betrayal might mean it is impossible for them to forgive, but also to love that new person, a stranger, and they would just have to leave, full of horrible sorrows for their lost fake life.
In fact the ones I understand less are the ones who loved very much and stay after... That doesn't sound right to me, nor logic. But the heart has its ways, blah blah...
"Men get cheated on just as much as women. They just react differently."
don't know about the statistical aspect of this comment, but agree on the different reaction.
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Cookie you missed the point. I am not anti-tranny in particular just anti-secrets. Mike perhaps the example is too far fetched for you to consider. How aboout if you find out that your kids that you have loved and brought up for years are not actually yours after all. Your wife knew all along but she was just bored with you and your sperm. And when you find out maybe she can say "just accept it, us women are just like that, french women do it all the time, we are queens so we are entitled etc"
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"It's funny how the women seem to get bent out of shape regarding cheating and the resulting lies while the men seem to handle it with a bit of composure."
Really? I seem to recall more news in the media in recent years where angry jealous men killing their cheating wives and killing or abandoning the kids. Men do get crazy too and don't react any better than women. It is all an act in this forum, they like to pretend they are cool, it's an image thing.
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tinyteddy,
So many women cheat and lead another man to believe the baby is his when it is someone else's. And not just french women, in hk alone it happens to a lot of men.Thank god for DNA testing.
The question of this thread is to tell or not to tell. I would say ignorance is bliss. I would still say, for as long you do not know the painful truth, you will be happy. Once the truth comes out, then your misery starts.
How the man will act will depend on how the relationship has been with his wife. The kids may not be his biologically but in every other sense, they are his.
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"Thank god for DNA testing." so you would prefer to know?
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When told by a gf/sex partner/preostitute that "she's pregnant" smart men now do the DNA testing once the baby comes out seeing as its not uncommon for men and women to sleep around.That's common sense.
Now if been married several years, raised kids....no I would rather not know.
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I can't believe so many people would rather be ignorant of so much!
To not know if a child was yours, to not know if your partner was unfaithful... I really don't get it.
I'd prefer to know exactly what I'm dealing with, so that I can make my life choices.
As for men being more composed than women when discovering the cheating? I personally know of a guy who did not take it well at all... several years later, a new wife and family later... and is still not over it. Still - this knowledge had allowed him to make a decision and get on with his life.
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This is like dealing with the 17th century Roman church which preferred not to know that the earth was round only had to concede to the truth 400 years later.
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so what about if the kids were then molested - prefer not to know? or taking drugs - still prefer not to know?
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Molesting kids?
Taking drugs?
Poor workplace performance?
You guys have some strange comparisons to love and marriage.
Bring on the whole truth, I say.
Let's see how long it is before the world melts into chaos.
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You "guys" have the strangest moraltiy standards gap between love/marriage and everything else. Or perhaps not so strange after all, it is quite self serving for the cheaters actually.
Chaos is only temporary, in the long run truth will result in a lot less cheating, lying, and pretending to be someone trustworthy when you're not (not what the seriel cheaters/liers like to see that's for sure).
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Well, let's use history and current events to back them both up and see which wins...
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We'll be happy to read your thesis! ;)
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@ahacha
In another thread you criticized people who visit prostitutes, comparing this with eating at Mc Donalds.
In this thread, you are criticizing people who have "fake relationships" in order to get sex.
You've also criticized people who cheat / have affairs.
A lot of people don't want to have affairs, or pretend, so they turn to prostitutes. Yes, it's grubby, but possibly the lesser of several evils. The girls and boys who work in that industry view themselves the same as the ex wife going for alimony... and they're not far wrong.
Just exactly what do you advocate people do to meet their needs ?
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@Capt - I guess you could always have a loving, respectful relationship
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To be fair, there are guys who are bound to be wife-less, especially in regions of this part of the world where number of males significantly outweighs number of females. I don't have a problem with people visiting prostitutes (assuming it is legal by local law) or in an open polygamy relationship where all parties agree to such an arrangement and understand fully the terms and who the participants are at all times.
What I do have a problem with are the deceit and lies, when someone in a relationship has been intentionally lied to and the truth withtheld from him/her. He/she has a right to know that the rules have changed and should be entitled to decide whether to continue to play or not.
Wob Lee - Only liers adore liers. If the choice is between a spouse's honest and constructive feedback that will help me improve myself, and a spouse's phony praises but cheating and lying behind my back, I choose the former any day.
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captdave:
sorry, don't have much time right now but just one thing:
"In this thread, you are criticizing people who have "fake relationships" in order to get sex."
i honestly don't have a clue where you read that in my words...
certainly don't feel like i ever discussed that subject. don't have time to read the thread agin righ now ti check where the misunderstandinf is coming from...
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Captdave now that i have a little bit of time, i was going to answer, but reading paenme's post, there's nothing else that i want to add, just.... exact same opinion.
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