Posted by
ian444
16 yrs ago
Hi,
Sorry if this come across as a bit of a rant but I need advice. I have been with a girl for about 1 year, we are from different backgrounds but love each other dearly.
The issue I have is with commitment. She has a fear of it and I want it.
Let me explain.
She says things and does things that should make me feel commitment for her and they normally would but on the other hand she says things that make me feel not wanted or needed in her life.
She will say she loves me but she has said love is not enough and she has walked away from relationships in the past when she loved the person.
I have stayed at her flat every night for months but she will not let me get rid of mine. So I am paying rent for no reason.
She set up a joint bank account and then I found out she still has one with her ex from years ago.
She says she is happy to live a single life and just have friends to look after her.
She says what a good dad I would make but then says she is happy bringing up a child by her self.
This is just some of the things that should make me feel I have commitment but it gets lost in other comments.
I feel that our generation is in a transition where ladies no longer need the support of a man. This means men don't feel safe and secure. I think this is the reason men go for younger girls so they feel they are needed.
What advice can you ladies and gents give me so I can feel safe in this relationship. I do speak to my GF about this but the feelings don't go away. If I bring it up again I will just scare her off.
Thanks in advance for your help
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Thank you LG is MV
I understand your reaction based on what I have put above. A little more information to see if you think the same after.
She knows she has a commitment issue and has sought experience to change that NLP and Landmark forum and it made a massive difference with her admitting to her family and friends I was her Boy Friend. I get invited to all family dinners and dim sum. She spends all her free time with me. So I feel safe and secure in the now. I just don't feel safe and secure in the long term future. She has booked flights for me to meet her family in Canada and for her to meet mine in the UK for Xmas and Easter. There are a lot of positives that I can see but they are just not the ones I need.
I feel if I push again to tell her I need some sort of commitment it will in fact push her away. She thinks everything is fine as I have hidden all of my feelings.
So what do you think?
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This is not directed at the OP...but pfffffffffff....now you know how a lot of women feel!!!!
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Hi Flashback,
Oh some more information.
I am from the UK and been in Hk for 3 years, I am 30 years old and left the UK due to a break down of a 7 year relationship (she cheated on me). My GF is from Canada but family from Hong Kong she is 32 years old.
What I mean about commitment, the feeling of something for the future. I know she has commitment issues and I did from day one. So I told her I would never propose to her so it would take the pressure off. She did sort of propose to me but then decided it was too quick. I kind of agreed and think living with someone first is a good idea before the big "i do's".
Security comes in the form of feeling wanted by the other person. We have a great time together love each other but just don't feel safe and that she wants me. I know she wants to spend time with me, but it is the feeling that she gives her self a get out clause that makes her feel safe and me insecure.
I take your point on being needy (wait I am a bloke and I just said that), but in truth it is to feel wanted. You are right not controlling but sometimes when I say things that I want it can come across that way. Appreciated is more like it. Just how do I put that across, she does try to consider my feeling and does things that make me feel appreciated. I can see all the effort it is just in a direction that does not mean that much to me.
It is hard for me to consider not being with her, she is amazing and special, she has already shown me more love than I thought was possible, but I know she can and may take that away. She has walked away from a 7 year relationship due to him proposing as she got scared. So you could say I am not confident in my self and insecure in this relationship.
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Oh an before anyone says about personal development training I know all of that. Don't live in the past, don't let the past effect the future. I do agree to that and that is why I am seeking advice to do something different for a better future. But past events do effect your feelings. I can not change my feelings just the way I deal with them.
Anyway thanks so far for your advice.
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Hello Ian,
You really only have one option in this scenario, and that is to jump in, balls first. If you even think for a moment about holding back and giving this relationship the chance it needs to succeed, it will not. You can't doubt the longevity of this current relationship due to your past ones. It will, inevitably, end up like your past ones.
In the end, what's the worst that can happen. Really. So it doesn't work out.. You survived the previous break up, what makes you think you won't survive this one. Give it your all, and have no regrets. If you start to pull back as some sort of self-preservation/self-defense mechanism, you are going to alienate herself and do a great injustice to your relationship.
She sounds the same. Afraid to let herself go and fully enjoy this for fear of being hurt. You need to communicate with her and make a consensual decision to go in this 100% together. If not, you will just linger in purgatory until one of you feels unsatisfied and gradually fades to find another partner.
Carpe diem.
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Good advice.
I will and have jumped in balls first. The problem is I feel a need to tell her what I want from her. I am holding that back but I will take your advice a communicate with her. Just trying to find a way to put across what I want without sounding needy. So she does not feel controlled or forced. A way to get commitment from her to work towards a future that will not scare her off.
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You can't be afraid to scare her off.. Every issue in your relationship has to approached walking on eggshells? If she is that quick to fold then lord only knows what would happen if you guys encountered a real speed bump in your relationship..
You need to establish the lines of communication early and make sure they are strong. Let her know and feel that she can say or think anything infront of you, that she can be raw and open and feel comfortable talking about whatever issue she is having..
You can't be afraid to lose her or scare her off.. She's not the right girl anyway if she's so quick to flee.
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Point taken and noted.
maybe it's not scaring her off, but she shuts down when she gets upset. She knows she can say anything to me. I just don't always feel the same. She takes time to come up with a solution and thinks about the true cause of a problem. I brain dump and think quickly. trying to find a balance that she will understand and not take to heart. A way of saying what I want in a constructive none controlling way. I am good at voicing what I like and dislike. It is then hard to take a step back to let her find a solution by taking time to think about it.
I act fast and think fast, think my problem is not giving her the space and time to think.
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In the past, does she eventually come talk to you when she's got it sorted out in her head about what she thinks and wants to say?
I have fairly extensive, first-hand experience with a girl exactly like this.. that's why I'm being so abrupt with you. I tried everything.. and really, in the end, it is just gently pushing them in the right direction for a few months.. and that problem just went away.
I doubt she thinks that slow.. She probably just has to build courage to speak to you for some reason or another. I don't think she feels like she can speak about anything and everything to you.. or she would be. If this REALLY is the case though, why don't you ask to be part of her mental dialogue. Ask her to think out loud.
To me though, and I'm totally just taking a stab in the dark here, but most people that are introverted normally have encountered some betrayal of trust in their lifetime. If she truly trusted you 100% not to leave her, or hurt her, or do whatever, I really don't think she would be so quick to shut down. It's just her way of escaping confrontation. She's been hurt bad in the past from the sounds of it.. and doesn't feel like you are totally incapable of repeating that.
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Firstly thank you for your advice. Your not being abrupt just honest.
Yes she does come to speak to me after she has thought or if I have said I need something doing different I can see a change. She is not vocal about it but I can see the effort.
I am trying the gently supportive approach and I can see it working for her, but still have the same feelings at the moment. perhaps I should give things more time and let it naturally progress.
It may not be she thinks that slow but does not give herself time to think. Always busy at work, with me or with friends. I try to give her space to think but she is out with friends and does not tell them her thoughts, she only opens up to me but it takes a long time. She is starting to think out loud, I really have to control myself to not let my emotions come into it or point my point of view across. I then wait till she is happy and try to then voice what I think, want, need.
The betrayal of trust from her parents leaving her in Hong Kong when they moved to Canada is the reason for commitment issues. I know this and so does she. The last bit you have written makes sense. It is almost like she is expecting me to trip up and upset her. She has said before she is trying to stop me from jumping through hoops so she trusts me. She sees when she is doing that most of the time. She says her past 2 long term relationships ended due to them proposing to her but I think it is deeper than that. She says everything was fine with them and she loved them but still left them. I think she may have been the same as she is now and they felt the same as me and tried to gain commitment by getting her to say yes and it scared her off as there was issues she had with the relationship that she may not have voiced but they felt it by her actions or lack of commitment
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Ah.. Abandonment issues.. Very hard to overcome. Girls with these normally leave first because they don't want to be left (again.) That's what I assert happened as she left the previous two, it's about her own self-preservation.. Once she feels that she is getting too close/attached or accustomed to having somebody there that she loves, it's time to take flight. She's too emotionally vested in that person, feels the threat of pain and that was her way of dealing with it, the most common way I've seen, actually.
You guys have only been dating for a year? Really, that's fast. You guys probably have spent every waking hour together 7/24/365 blah blah blah.. outside of work.. but still, REALLY fast. You seem like you've got your mind made up already, but by pushing this engagement thing it's going too fast for almost any other human.
You need to take the relationship less seriously at the moment.. Do continue to put pressure on her to communicate openly, but lay off this proposal thing for now. I wouldn't be surprised if she tested you over the next little while. She *may* attempt to do things to anger you just to see your response, if you leave, etc.. More trials by fire.
There is an interesting concept here that you may want to keep in mind as well. Trust. You think she trusts you. She may have told you, that she trusts you. She may believe it herself. Yet, her actions speak louder than her words. Deep inside her subconscious, and leaking into her decision making matrix, she doesn't trust you. She wants to trust you. That is the key. That is a big step.
It will take time, patience, perseverance and comfort to earn that. I would say, live in the moment still and don't think too much about the proposal/engagement thing.. If you really feel within yourself that you want to invest this into her, that she is worth it, then put that biological alarm clock away and just enjoy your time together.. When the time is right, she'll let you know when she's ready.. And you'd better be ready. :D
I'm heading out now. Good luck sir, just take your time.
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The first part is 100% spot on! Abandonment Issues.
I think the marriage thing was too fast and still do. It was like she was testing herself to get over her fear not because she felt it was right.
I am 100% off the engagement thing, but just searching for some soft of commitment. Like formally moving in. We spend a lot of time together but trying my best to also give her space and time.
I know it is a big step for her on trust, she wants to trust me but yes deep down she does not.
Thanks for all of your great advice I think it really helped.
Ian
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Thanks Flashback,
I do understand what you are saying and I will take your advice. It is good to get advice from people who understand from both sides. I know we have a chance to work and if anything you have both given me security in what is happening so I can be the best I can be for her.
Thanks in advance for your help!
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Hi ian
as has been pointed out, some people are not really worried a lot about commitment or the need to be 'as one'.
It is only a problem if the other person is demanding something else. If you can let go of your strong need for commitment and enjoy the relationship then it will be OK. If you cannot then ...
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I am trying to learn to let that go and give her the space she needs to be her. With time I hope to feel more secure. This is hard for me but when you love someone that much your willing to change your point of view and realise that to get what you want and need you have to give her what she needs for that to happen.
If that is space and for me not to push her then that is what I will do. I will take a step back, see the bigger picture and devote myself to making her happy in every way I can. I know there is a chance for us for something in the future, I am not in a rush to make it happen sooner. I will live in the now and give her what she needs to feel safe and loved.
Holiding your own feelings back to make sure someone else is happy is the most important thing in a relationship. See the best in the other person and see them for the things you are in love with and try to forget about what you want to achieve or why or even what you feel what is missing.
I will just let it happen and go with the flow and make sure she feels like the princess she is to me.
Thank guys for your advice, if anyone else has any advice please feel free to add to this post as I will keep reading as I am interested to get others points of view.
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You say
"If that is space and for me not to push her then that is what I will do. I will take a step back, see the bigger picture and devote myself to making her happy in every way I can. "
Don't try too hard. Relax and enjoy what you have. If you try too hard this could put strain on the relationship.
Also ask what your motivation is. It your motivation for proving your love is to show her that she really can/should commit, then you have missed the point. This would not be respecting her views and would put strain on the relationship.
Enjoy what you have and learn to enjoy it. Allow her to love you her way.
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I understand what you are saying.
Here is a question for you. I know she wants to trust me but find that hards due to her past. Apart from making her feel special is there anything I can do to show her she can trust me?
I know you will say say just give it time and trust in what we have and just go with the flow and relax. I am just trying to cover all angles in my thought process. Your help and advice is helping me get over issues and think of a way forward.
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Be yourself and relax.
I do not know your gf past. She may have also experienced an over controlling person in her life. If so trying to engineer something would perhaps make her feel less safe.
I do not mean this in a condescending way, so please read this with a friendly tone.
She seems to be happy where she is. Perhaps you have issues to deal with or to learn to understand youself. If so then you can do something as these are more in your control.
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Hi tigerbay,
The past is her abandonment issues and walking away from a relationship before the other person has a chance to. She tends to see the worst in people and expects the worst fro a boy friend.
You are not being condescending in anyway. I love the internet and forums for being able to talk freely with out and judgement.
She is happy where she is but only because I am holding back my feelings, if I let them out she is not happy. Ultimately for me I am happier holding in the emotions than having her upset. I just needed to know form others points of view that there was a chance I will get what I feel I need in the future from her. That just give me the chance I need to see so I can be the best person I can be.
being myself is to get an answer and get what I want not to relax. But after some of the advice on here the only way to get what I want is to relax and not push. So that is what I will do. No one can really control the emotions they have, but everyone has a choice how they react to them. I will just change how I react to make a better relationship for us both. If that means not reacting at all and just relaxing then it is a solution I can do and happy to do.
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Hrm.. I think I am sensing a bit about our OP as well.. Do you have a need to be needed? Bird with broken wing type of thing? Another stab in the dark, not really sure why I am getting that impression but I did.
You are analyzing and dissecting her and your relationship. It's not a bad thing, but it is bad because you can't stay nonchalant about it. Your emotional level is way out of balance it seems though.. It's not genuine as you are still intoxicated by the beginning 'honeymoon' period of your relationship. You need to get your head on straight, and get your heart in order, stop thinking so far ahead and live for today..
Plotting and lining up all these future aspirations and expectations isn't a bad thing but if you let it engross you like how you are, you will be missing the present. My life philosophy is just to life live one day at a time.. You need to slow yourself down to appreciate today. When the time is finally right to take further steps, as I said, it will come naturally.
What I am trying to say is.. On the exterior you can pretend whatever you want. Like, you're ok with the speed your relationship is moving, but internally as you are exposing to us now.. Nothing has changed. That will build up in you.. What's required isn't a change of behaviour, but a change a personality, which is far more time consuming than the former.
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Thanks to the both of you. I love the fact you will say what you think, friends and family I can not speak to the same way.
Yes I am trying to gain commitment to get over the thoughts of the past. I can see that. I just don't feel I can be myself. I talk a lot and happy to tell people on the whole how I feel and why, what I want and what I need. I just don't always put it across the best way.
You say about self-esteem, well as a rule I know I am a great guy, I will never cheat always look at doing things different to look after the other person, look at the positives. I cook, clean, play piano, write poetry think of the other persons feelings, have a good group of friends, I am like able and love able.
But when someone keeps looking in the worst in you, picking at you for tiny things its is hard. In this relationship I am starting to forget how great I am. I do things different to make her happy and she expects the worst in me. I was controlling and then I backed off, but she just keeps seeing the worst and is making me feel like why should I even bother changing.
Sorry having a bad day today :-(
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Flashback,
You are right. I don't feel loved for who I am and that is causing the issues and not my past with my ex.
I am stopping pushing for things. I do feel loved most of the time. But it is when she chooses to do something even when she knows it would upset me. I feel like I am being set tests I am meant to fail at. I will stop my action so she does not become unhappy and I do it for choice and love for her. When I don't get that back it hurts like crazy. I do feel that the first reply I got is true and she is just not that into me.
This is hard to take as I love her with all of my heart. Someone also wrote to me "you got over the last break up so if that happens again you can get over this one". I know what they are trying to say but I went to a low horrible place in my life and even with experience I am scared that will happen again. I only just made it through last time and this does worry me when i am feeling like this.
I have already been asking the question why am I bothering. The answer is I am deeply in love with her and I can not walk away. I also feel it is bad for her if I did as what she already has issues with I will be proving. I would choose to by unhappy with her than be happy with anyone else.
This is the thoughts going through my mind and are not edited. This is a hard choice to make and I am the only one to make it. Just one that I can not do at the moment.
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You may also keep in mind what I mentioned before about 'testing' you.. A common response once somebody gets too close, is to push away. Characteristically, that's via being.. distant.. mean.. cruel.. critical.. Testing limits and thresholds to see if you'll break away or leave her.. It's to verify something within herself.. She can be all like "Oh so I knew he would leave, just like everyone else in my life."
The only reason I was able to endure that period of negativity is because I have a very strong self-identity. I know exactly who I am. If you really want this to work out, you need to find yourself and be adamant. Don't let her deviate your own image of yourself.. It's the only way you will survive. How much of your dignity are you willing to compromise?
The reason I say that is because.. when you talk about self-esteem, it is intrinsic and contained within you. You said all this stuff about being a great guy blah blah blah but do you actually believe all of it? If you did, you wouldn't let somebody taking cheap jabs at you affect you, or make you doubt yourself.. You have to look at the intentions behind what she is trying to accomplish with her pokes, and not focus on what she is saying as normally it's just her trying to find a reason to take a swing at you.
Why bother changing, is the question. Is she worth it? Are you guys worth it? If not, don't waste anymore time with her and this.
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I am trying to keep it all in mind. I do feel like I am being tested as I am too close.
I do need to find my self-identity again. I need to get my confidence back.
My old self would be saying now, why should I have to be the one to do something different, can she not see what she is doing, does she not realise. But that does not work. I hope with time she does see that for herself but that is up to her not me. I can only control my actions and my emotional state. Still can feel like a one sided relationship but I try to forget that.
Yes without a single doubt she is worth everything. I can't walk away as that is not me. I am not changing who I am just changing my old reactions to things and doing things differently for a different outcome.
Message to Elsdon - I just have to ask you a couple of question, how old are you and what is your cultural back ground? Why I ask is you are very experienced on this subject. I have found in Hong Kong so many fake people but you come across with genuine concern and thoughts for my feelings and a genuine willingness to help. From my experience here that is not very common.
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ian, I've sent you a pm regarding your message.
Expect to be the one to compromise yourself for a while. If you don't care about that, then good. But if you think it's unfair or imbalanced (it is.) to a rather ridiculous degree, then you will have to rethink this. It will be one-sided since you are the only one that wants it to work out, at the moment. She's trying to sabotage it to validate her negativity.
I've found there to be high concentrations of fake people in every 'international' city, be it Tokyo, New York, London, Los Angeles.. Hong Kong is no different.. Needless to say, in all those cities, you will also find many real people as well.
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Thanks for the PM elsdon.
Nermal - yes I do analysing things in detail, thing is I am doing it here as it is a place I can speak freely and get others view. I am thinking is it worth it but I know in my heart it is, my brain is not 100% sure so asking advice to see if my brain is right or not.
Elsdon - I agree I will compromise myself and I am willing to. Hopefully will see what happens with time and I will keep you updated.
HK think I was mixing with the wrong people, need to find some good calm nice friends hahaha!
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I have a few nice plans this weekend and I am thinking happy thoughts.
Dinner with her gran for her birthday tonight, ice skating with her nice tomorrow, Saturday night relaxing at home, then Sunday she is out with friends so I am having friends over and I am cooking for them. A smallish house party with a few nice glasses of red wine.
Seriously thanks to you guys/girls for taking the time to speak to a total stranger. It has helped me get things straight in my head, helped me get a point of view from other people that have experienced the same. Sometimes just to feel I have been listened to is all I need to get closure and move on. To stop my brain thinking at a million miles an hour. I hope with time I can do this with my GF, she is highly intelligent, seriously beautiful on the inside and out, never boring and really I would never change her for anyone else. She is truly special in so many ways. Worth all the effort and the heart ache I feel sometimes. But I am strong and will be strong for her and for us.
I can see positives I see what I can do and how to do it. Even if what I need to do is relax and take a little step back.
just to share with you here is a poem I wrote a while back about how I was feeling and relates to this post.
I walked upon a nightingale and saw it's broken wing,
stranded on the ground it had lost the will to sing.
The songbird was in pain, so I took it home to mend
in hopes it's will to live had not reached an end.
I felt a heart beating in fear inside it's feathered chest,
it did not trust me yet, I could be like the rest.
As time went by the bird began to see inside my heart
and in it's eyes I saw, soon the songs would start.
One morning it awakened me singing songs of love,
taught to it by Angels sent from God above.
Quickly I looked inside the box marveling at the sight,
a songbird to sing songs every day and night.
It's wing had mended nicely, so I took it in my hand,
told it fly around and then come back to land.
The songbird circled over me then flew far away,
I haven't seen my songbird since that very day.
For awhile my heart was broken, but now I finally know,
the songbird really loved me, it simply had to go.
Just because she needed me, I helped this songbird live
and she gave me every song her heart would let her give.
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That's very nice poem, sound very romantic kind of guy..
Good luck for the b'day party and ice skating too..
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jetsy
16 yrs ago
i am speaking very honest here, i been dating my BF for almost 7 years now, just engaged this year, we both from different background as well, he's American black, i am Chinese.
look, we love each other very much, so there is only one goal for us all those dating years - marriage! we will soon get married!!
why takes so long to marry? we both not at all young! i am 35 this year and he's 44! why don't we hurry into marriage?
tell u why? it takes hard work to work together in a relationship when people from different background especially both have a certain attitude and expectation!
i could tell you as a lady, man is needed for a woman ( if she's healthy and normal), but most ladies not at all feeling secure in a relationship ( not only man) , since there are so many temptation from the world and we see so many divorces everywhere, it's difficult to have trust in a relationship, maybe people fear to lose so they dare not to walk too deep into it? and it takes hard work to maintain as well. So bad that some people just quit in the middle, they really miss the best thing in their life if they could overcome.
communication is very important, open talk and trust, the bible says: Love has no fear! what u going to lose to talk openly to someone you love? is that going to hurt both or is it going to bring you guys up to a deeper level of understanding and lead your relationship forward as you expect?
let the other side knows exactly your feeling and expectation, no need to hide, only true love/right love will remain!
look, your looking for security in a relationship is very dear for many lady to hear, that's why i am writting you here, i try to reach out from my angle.
if she loves you and expect the same thing from you, she should be happy to be with a honest man like you! maybe she's not ready to go that far or she's not mature enough to handle or she has something else in her mind.
you should try to understand where she is and see if anything you could do to make a progress?
i wish you guys well sincerely, i thank God for his blessing and wisdom, i just learn that even though two love each other, but to bring it further and deeper, it takes tremendous work between two, and only true love will remain!
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I agree with Elsdon. Life is perhaps just about giving and taking? What are you giving out right now? And what do you expect to take back? A marriage? To move in with her for long term? What do you mean by 'security'? Are you still living in the nightmare you had from the last relationship that makes you not a emotionally healthy enough person to be involved in another relationship. You just wanted to get away from the past so you start another unhealthy/imbalanced relationship again. I've the feeling that you're victimizing yourself so you can accept what unfair things happening in your life in an easier way? Sometimes self-deception is the hardest problem to untangle. Beautify this relationship= geting away from reality?? An excuse to live away the self-image you got from the last GF? Only you truly know who you are and what you want. And she, your GF, too. Otherwise, it's perhaps another waste of few years in a dream.
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selda
16 yrs ago
Ian444,
your need to look at your own issues before analyzing hers.
You are only 30 and yet you need security so badly that nothing short of living together makes you feel safe in this relationship, no matter how much love you receive, how happy together you are.
Well, the bad news is that security is a myth. Even marriage offers no protection against cheating, walking away, falling out of love etc.. So why don't you just enjoy what you have right now, letting go of your fear?
I don't think she is wrong in taking things slowly. She is a confident, smart girl who wants you but doesn't need you. Let her love for you grow organically, don't fast-forward the relationship by pushing her to commit.
Needing someone is a major turn off.
Last summer I ran a mile because someone suggested marriage after a very intense and passionate trip together that rekindled a relationship that ended 20 years ago. I was still trying to remember why i had ended it 20 years ago, and he was proposing. Talk about being on a completely different page :-) If he had played it cool, i would have grown fonder of him, but his emotional maelstrom achieved the opposite effect.
So, play it cool if you want to make some progress with your lady!
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selda
16 yrs ago
sorry, typo, you should read " You need to look at your own issues"
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as mentioned by several posters above she is probably commitment phobic for a reason and i bet the issue of past abandonment by previous boyfriends family etc prob play a big part -she just doesn't want to get too close in case he feels the same hurt again
i know because my girlfriend wants total close commitment and i am the opposite- i deliberately keep a distance emotionally & very much need my own space and time( due to a past disastrous divorce where i felt very abandoned and never want to go through that again )
don't try to change her she will be very anxious and unhappy if the realtionship is too clingy.... but just accept things as they are if you are happy with other aspects of the relationship
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Thank you for everyone advice. It is good to get ideas from everyone. We actually had a great chat last night that means a lot to me and I would like to share one thing from it.
There are different ways to show love. And where one person thinks they are showing love the other may not feel it as it is not important for them.
5 ways to show love.
Touch
Gifts
Time
Acts of Service
Words
But with each you then have the definitions of each that are important.
For me Time is not spending every second together while both rushing around and busy with friends, it is those brief moment we I am alone with her and nothing else is going on.
Gifts for me this is not so import but for her it is. Not expensive things but buying soup or a bottle of wine on the way home and yes all girls love flowers now and then.
Touch this for me is a simple as holding hands.
Acts of service - looking after the other one when ill, trying to help the other person develop past a problem or issue, cleaning the flat so it is nice when they come home.
Words - saying you love the other person and why they are special to you.
For me gifts and acts of service don't mean a lot, I do them for her as I know she loves it. Problem is it is natural for you to give what you want back, so she was doing what she thought would make me happy when in fact it went un noticed by me. They just did not have the impact. After our take we know what the other needs to feel loved. So I am happy and thank you all as being able to chat on here means I did not make things worse between us as i had a way to vent my frustrations.
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ilu
16 yrs ago
well, i guess i can speak for your gf...i was in that situation and still am.
basically, there is nothing you can do but wait and see to prove that you can be trusted, time is all she needs!!!
due to my past relationship and examples set beside me, i don't trust guys and i found it hard to fall in love again even if i was in a relationship and tried to love the one's back but deep inside i know i dont (and i am sure your gf feel the same), so even though i know how much he loves me, i can't give the same love in return, instead, i treated him badly, if i am in a good mood, i will do anything to make him happy but if i am in a bad mood or had a bad day (which most of the time i am), i will make his life in hell and miserable, i knew it and i tried not to but somewhat its not something that i can over control myself when it comes to emotional troubles.
that doesn't necessarily mean that she does not love you tho, she knows how good you are and she knows you are the best guy in the world and she knows she might not find anyother guy as nice as you in her life anymore, she knows everything, and she is trying her best to love you back, but, its the past trapped her in the darkness and she is fighting her way out, it takes time, we dont know how long but time is all she needs.
i am still fighting for the darkside of my past and i can't tell whoever comes around when bcos i dont know and i told them not to wait bcos its not fair. thats why i broke up with him, as i know the longer the relationship goes, the deeper the hurt is going to be.
i see you are willing to wait, so i give ya all my best wishes, hope that sooner or later, she will walk out the darkness n be happy person.
possibly she needs someone to talk to.....too.....tats what i do, that helps to release my pains.....
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Thanks
I have listened to what people have said and understand and can agree. I would like to say I know I have issues but need advice on hers to better understand them.
I have added a post about landmark forum that I would like advice on. If anyone has been let me know what you think. Just search on the internet and you will see the both good and bad things people say about the course. I have seen all of that, but want advice based on peoples experiences.
Thank
Ian
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I just don't get it. Why do some girls claim that they love a guy yet treat him badly or even turn their backs and walk away?
Speaking it's unfair for a guy to wait for a girl to move on from her past to be happy in a relationship... the point is, the world is never really "fair".
There is no guarantee that if you give so much u wud get the same in return. But there are guys like Ian who are willing to put up with all this, fully acknowledging that it is not fair, and they are willing to bear with it coz they love the girl. Yet there are still some girls that are not happy with that, saying that she is not ready to reciprocate that level of love in return, and just took the easy path and walk away, claiming coz it wud be selfish and unfair to keep the guy when she moves on from the past.
As if the guy doesn't already know that the girl is flawed this way, he is still willing to be there for her as he genuinely loves her and is willing to do anything for her. But the girl wouldn't even give them the chance to work things out, but puts herself on the moral highground and deciding it wud be selfish and unfair to keep the guy around while she sorts herself out.
Speaking about selfish and unfair, how is it not selfish and unfair when the girl doesn't even respect if that is what the guy wants, and yet just decides "what's best for him"? I mean, what makes them think they hv got the right to judge what's the best for a grown man?
I mean, the intentions may be well. But then it's just like parents dictating what's best for their kids and depriving them of their choices, thinking that's "what's best for them", yet not respecting them as individuals and let them take the chance regardless of the outcome... so how is it "fair"?
Shouldn't the essence of relationships be two people trying to face adversities and trying to work things out? There will always be problems with any relationship at some stage. I just don't see how taking the easy way walking out is being fair and genuinely for the good of the other instead of being selfish.
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ilu
16 yrs ago
to Fatkid, you have given me a wake up call, i have never thought breaking up with him is not what he wants, bcos i always get angry with him whenever he is around, giving me too much pressure. yes u r rite, i have never stand at the place where he was but sometimes you know where this relationship is heading....and i see myself will not fully committed into it due to my past relationships and lay my trust on him even though he persuaded me millions times that he can be trusted....yes i do agree with Flashback i might need therapy to help to move on and get out of the past....
i didnt mean i love him, what i meant is i want to LOVE him but a relationship without trust, where LOVE come from then? its not that i dont want to but if you have ever into relationships as i did, i doubt you will ever lay your trust on girls again....cheating and betrayal....how can you deal with it???
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Love is you either have it or don't, want it or have it, have it or lost it. If there is no love there is no point. Unless you want o spend your life unhappy?
If you know someone is upset and they can not show you love but you know in your heart they do love you then you try to find a way to fix it. No love means no point. So but for me it is as simple as that.
Fatkid - I just want to add that it is not all her fault, I tried to quit smoking and snapped a few times, that did not prove to her my love so is where things started to go wrong. I am trying to fix things now but she is not all to blame here. I don't like the word blame but I have done things wrong and I am trying to learn. Not that I am defending her and some of her actions but I have no made it easy for her.
You have only heard my side of the story as it is what I needed advice on. I could tell you all about what is wrong with me but I already know and I am working on it. Easier to fix myself that understand how to help someone else be happy.
Thanks again for all the advice.
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ilu
16 yrs ago
ian444, i guess we are just too scared, there is no guarantee that a relationship is gonna work out and even it did, how long is it gonna last? living in a place like hk with temptation all around...i dont know how a guy can deal with it....i have heard stories with broken hearts zillion times in hk, no more fairy dreams, no more sweet homes, all is broken down. girls flew home with a broken heart, hk is a nitemare for most of the girls.....
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I see your point, but how can you live life that way? How can you not give love a chance? True love is worth having you heart ripped out a million times.
Everything in life is a risk, new job, moving country, new flat, new friends, boy friends. But if we don't take a step to get what we want you end up being the same and nothing will ever change. That can not be good for anyone and kind of removes any point out of life. I am sorry if this sounds harsh. But why bother if you don't believe it? What is the point?
Guys are not all the same if you find someone that is good for you stay with them. Give them a chance, hope your heart to possibilities. Even if someone else has been hurt or you have been hurt that does not mean it will happen in the future. Don't let the past effect your future. Give it a chance, grab life by the balls and do something different. You will see when you do things different you tend to get a different result.
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Hey Ian
I hope things got better after your chat with your gf. You seem like a very nice guy and certainly a romantist! I'd love it if my bf wrote a poem for me! I bet you are the kind of guys who love to spoil your gf with lots of love and attention. Do you think you are (were?) seeking advice in this forum because you want to hear what you are doing (by still being in this relationship) is worth it? Do you want to gain support from strangers because you have spoken about this "issues" with your colleagues and friends and they have told you to walk away and do it quickly?
Whilst I cannot possibly tell you what you ought to do, I can only give you advice based on what you have told us in the course of 8 days. This is your side of the story and of course it would be fair to hear her side of the story as well. However, I know how you feel for her and you will do anything just to be with her. I am going to tell you what I would choose to do if I were in your own shoes, so I am going to be very critical. So here I am as Ian.
"I do admit that I have some insecurity issues, after all my gf of 7 years dumped me for another bloke. She dumped me not because we didn't get married, not because I was a bad person. It's because people fall in love and they fall out of love, as simple as that. I should have thanked her for leaving me because now I have the chance to experience a new life in another city, in another culture and
you know the best thing is? I am only 30! If I were to live until 80, I have still got 50 years ahead of me!
Now I am ready for a new relationship, to meet someone and enjoy life with this special person. If I had decided to marry this person, I will be spend 50 years with her, so I want to make it right. It makes sense doesn't it?
Unfortunately, I have met this girl who is a bit messed up. She WANTS to commit but she doesn't SHOW it? How difficult is it for someone who shows his/her love if they are happy in a relationship? I have been with her for a year. I have made a financial commitment and set up a joint account with her. Don't couples only set up a joint account when they are married or living together? That's my commitment so why is it so difficult for her to understand it? If she loves me as much as I love her, why does she manipulate me and torture me like this knowing that it makes my heart? I know she said she's got commitment issues. If you do have a commitment issue, why being with someone and ask him to open a joint account with you? Talking about a joint bank account, I wonder why she's still keeping one with her ex! That really bugs me, is he still putting monies in? Can she draw monies out? Why would you want to have anything to do with your ex in that way?
I trust her 100%, what I ask is to show a bit of her love and make me feel that my love is returned. She always gets what she wants and now I am thinking what I get out of this relationship? I know I also need to ask myself a few questions. Do I love myself enough to allow others to love me? If I feel comfortable with myself enough, I will be able to analyse the situation more clearly. See it from a third person's perspective.
I think the best solution for now is to give each other space, move back to my place for a month or so. That's a test and she loves test! I have been giving her too much attention and she's bullying me. If I were to marry her, she needs to think about whether I am the one. It will be difficult but I don't want to be with her for 7 years and find out at the end of the day she doesn't want to be with me. It takes time and luck to find the one but when you do, both of you will be sure about it. When you love someone, you shouldn't be a different person. You should be allowed to be yourself."
Good luck Ian
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BTW Ian, have you heard of or tried Emotional Freedom Technique? It may help you to release your emotional 'blockage'. Here's a clip about it on youtube by the this technique's founder, Gary Craig. You can practice it by yourself, there are lots of videos on youtube showing you how you do it. I hope it helps because it certainly did for me.
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nRY3UtTHvo
Also read the comments by other viewers.
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Oh sorry Ian. The video actually only TALKS about EFT. I have found a good one about self-acceptance. Here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFn8tX5xD4s&feature=channel
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I find it weird that you guys that are merely dating have a joint bank account. And she also has a joint bank account with her ex which she still keeps. Many HKG girls are always looking for a better catch.
Actually the thing that matters the most is whether she really loves you. If you think she really does, then just give her some space and time. But if she is only holding on to you until she finds a better one, then I dont know what to say anymore.
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Ian 444 "True love is worth .........." true but im sorry to say you dont have true love, you might love her but she clearly does not love you back that much, when you find that special person commitment is not an issue. Its a bit like the difference between being peckish and not having eaten for 2 days,then you really know what you want ,to my mind she is just a bit peckish
it sounds harsh but you have to remember girls are like buses, there will always be another along in a minute You just happen to have taken a few wrong ones, out there there a bus with your destination on it get off at the next stop and find the right one.
a blokes veiw but thats the only one i have
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Ian,
I have read this thread over the last few days and, putting it bluntly, feel you are being taken for a ride. You need to take a step back, take a break from this smothering relationship that you have rambled into. Joint bank account, wake up and smell the heather buddy.
If you want to be open here, why is a Joint Bank account needed? Are you bank rolling her ?
TMD
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haha you guys and girls are al wrong, she set it up so I could have money, she has more savings than me in Hong Kong, Don't get me wrong I have houses in the UK but she has the cash here.
So can I have some real advice now?
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Ah! Ian should have told us about the reason for the joint bank account. Now I have a totally different view. I think you should take inattendu's advice. I don't think your gf is that bad. Sounds like she's quite independent, she wants the stability being in a relationship but I am afraid to tell you she is still thinking whether you are the one. Chill out, you think too much. Just enjoy the time being together. If you don't really get what you want and you have talked about it and it's still the same. Why wasting both of your time. Anyway, I still think you are the only person truly knows what you want to do. We have to be selfish sometimes and think about ourselves first.
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haha if I was brad pit would I give a dam about her? Well the truth is I would, she is great. As for would she do the same if I was Brad Pit, yes she would it is who she is.
Problem is with posts like this is I can only tell you my feelings and thoughts as I am not in her brain and can not tell you what she is thinking. The truth is she needs space to be free so she can show me the love I want.
Think of it as seeing the beauty in a flower but if you hold it too tight you crush it. Simple fact is I need to give her some space, Elsdon and Flashback both understand as they either know someone like her or are like her.
Her beauty shows through in the way she cares even when she is hurting, her strength is gained with time to reflect on this. She is a true kind hearted amazing girl. I took a step back and have given her some space and we both feel it is the best move. Since we did that (last night) we both feel under less pressure and both are returning to the people who fell in love with each other.
You can't trap a free spirit and expect them to love you for it, instead you join them in the free world and live happy both having someone to share your life with. We will be fine in the end, that much I can trust in. Time to relax and give each other some recovery time is what was needed.
I can see form some of the posts on here that a few people have a bad view on the world and relationships. All relationships take work and communication, a better understand of the other person, once you have that bond and ground work you will spend a happy life together. I have gained a better view on what was happening by the advice from random people on asiaxpat. This in turn has made me and the relationship stronger.
I gave you some of the facts, the bad side what was wrong, I missed out all the good things as I did not need advice on that. I do think some people need to realise that before they post a reply, but I also understand the good intentions.
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I did not go over other advises or so. I just read your first post. Leave the girl. Obviously she does not fall for you. She's after what and how much you can do for her. Not what love between you and her can do, to make things work right for both of you. Simple as that. She wongtgive in totally to a commitment because she only looks at the upside of the love you can provide and not the totallity of it. She doesn't deserve your love . . . Find someone who deserves what you had to offer and who is equally is committed to do the same. . . .
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i didn't read the whole thread but if the situation is still the same as it was described originally, i might think u have to toughen up a little. start going out with your friends a little more and show her that u have a choice and u are not at her disposal. look at her reaction to this, if shes happy and goes out herself, that's a hint shes not the girl for u in a sense that she wants to be left alone and single. if she gets upset and jealous, even though it might be harsh to put her through that, it shows that she cares and doesn't like u being away from her. i had a friend who lost his 1 year long fiance just because he was always available and he always let the her be the one in charge. i'm not saying take the whole charge of the relationship, but currently by the sounds of things, u are just doing what she is putting forward. i'm sorry if i have offended anyone with this but i think its the right thing to do. last thing u want happening to u is being with a girl for good who isn't loyal or doesn't appreciate or love u as much. cheating is the worst anyone can ever do, be it from a man or woman. hope this helped. cheers mate and the best of luck
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Thanks ashaank,
Good advice, the problem with her is if I am not chasing her then her friends do for her time. I know she loves and cares for me, but she does not chase me for time when I give her space. And I feel I have to be available when she is or I get no time with her. She is happy in a relationship if she sees me once a week for me that is just not enough. I want to be a bigger part of her life. For me that is what a relationship is all about!
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I am starting to think I should be the strong man and just turn my back and walk away. Will be so hard to do.
Just don't see another solution at the moment. She gets what she wants, I don't get what I want. Perhaps it's time to find someone that can offer that to me??????
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Hallo Ian, I have to agree with Huggy. In so many ways, she is showing how strong of a person she is. You have to understand more about women.
She is obviously not in love with you as much as you are to her. Maybe she is not even in love at all.
It would be good to test her feelings for you. Tell her that you have to move on. Tell her that you are ready for commitment and ask her how she would feel.
I f she is giving you the answer that you have been expected....than you should move on.
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hubba
16 yrs ago
MOVE ON! Geez!
You are too nice! she is taking you for a ride! Some women is like this.. she is hopping the ex will turn around.. and then meanwhile she has a float (YOU!) to hang on to.
WAKE UP!
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Waiting for the ex, haha seriously what are you on and where did you get that idea? You are so so wrong.
The rest maybe true, but not for that reason. Just trying to work our where the value add is in you statement or are you hurt yourself and you are venting your anger here?
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Agree with Denny -this chick is so not into you -she is just biding her time till the next best comes along and then you will be out anyway and not even on your terms
China /HK is guy heaven -you are spoiled for choices but you seem kinda lethargic
Try to get motivated or take some DHEA pills or something to pep you up -i did this a while back and later wondered what the hell i was doing crying into my beer over an ex and wasting time for so many months.
Good luck
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