Posted by
sagebean
15 yrs ago
I have been married for about 10 years, most of that time we've been in Asia. Both husband and I are expats and we now have 3 young kids including 1 newborn.
In the past year my husband has been going to bars more frequently and staying out much later-often to 3:00-4:00am in the morning. This used to happen once or twice a year but now it happens once or twice a month. I find it quite ridiculous particularly as he finishes work at around 6pm and goes directly to the bar to meet his friends. It seems so unacceptable for a married man to be at a bar for 8 hours or more. I told him how upsetting it is and he promises to stop but never does. Sometimes he'll say he's going to meet his friends for just one beer after work and not come hom 'til 3! I get so furious and he explains that he meant to leave earlier but was having such a good time with his friends that he didn't want to. I suppose I'm somewhat insecure as my husband is very attractive and I've just had my third baby and feel a little less than attractive. His choice of drinking friends also leaves a bit to be desired. One frequently cheated on his girlfriend (now wife) and the other is alcoholic (not getting help). In all fairness I should add that my husband is a wonderful father who spends lots of time with the kids.
Anyhow, I'm so angry at my husband for his behaviour that I don't know how to deal with it. He keeps promising that it won't happen again but it always does. It seems that he doesn't respect me or my feelings. Am I unreasonable to expect my husband to be home at a decent hour? How do I handle this?
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Hi sagebean, I just delivered my little girl as well. If my husband spent so often time at a bar instead of being home supporting me, I would have had a serious talk with him. If things still don't change, i would leave the small one to him to take care at times in the week so I can also hang out with my friends. From your words i feel that your husband still loves you, otherwise he wouldn't bother to explain to and promise you anything. Therefore I think it will work when you put your anger into action.
Good luck!
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Hi sagebean,
Ouch, this is a horrid situation. Please don't feel as though you're being unreasonable, the simple fact is that happily married men shouldn't really behave the way you are describing! Once in a blue moon, fair enough. But every second week or so? I'd be seeing red! Plus, who on earth has the energy or will to stay out until such an ungodly hour?
Have you spoken to your husband about what it is that he gets up to? I'm assuming your husband is not in his 20's, why the need to go out on benders? Is it because he needs an occasional escape from work/home? Maybe the tension of working and raising 3 children is making him a little frazzled?
This does not mean I condone the behaviour, just trying to dig for reasons as to why your hubby's behaviour has changed of late.
Is there any way that you might be able to join your husband on one of his nights out? Is there anyone available to look after your children? Though this may not be on your agenda of 'fun things to do' it may actually curb your husband's adolescent partying. If you were both to get out for the night with company that you both enjoyed, would that curb his drinking with the unsavoury friends? Your hubby needs to understand that you have equal needs and rights to a night out, and that spending time together kid-free may actually be good for the two of you.
I'm not sure any of my ramblings are going to be of much help. Hang in there, try to talk to him. There may be a reason for his behaviour. Try to dig it out, whatever it may be.
Kim
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Edited to add, just realised that the new addition may be too young to be left with a babysitter. Please disregard above statement!
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Are his late nights taking him into Wanchai? That is where many previously married men stray soon after coming to Asia. There's a lot a man can get up to in this town if he's out till 3am.
I would find out details of exactly where he is going till all hours and if you catch him out in a lie you can be sure he is up to no good.
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In all fairness, my husband does his share of child care. He was home with our first child full-time as it was financially more beneficial for me to work at that time. In fact, when I complain that his behaviour is unacceptable, he always brings up the fact that he takes care of the kids, and never does a late night interfere with him getting up and doing his fatherly duties. That is true and he is a fantastic father.
However, he does go to Wanchai as he claims this is convenient after work and his friends like meeting there. He always tells me I can call any time when he's out. After telling me he'd be home before midnight I've called him in complete anger at 3am quite a few times. Only twice did he not answer the phone claiming the music must have been too loud! I don't like to think the worst but there's always a lingering doubt in the back of mind. I became so frustrated after one of his late nights that I told him I would have no choice but to seperate if he continued like this. He completely broke down and said that was so unfair of me seeing as he was such a good husband and father. I was the one who ended up feeling guilty in the end...maybe that was his intention.
I love my husband but I really can't go on like this and he's shown no sign of changing...just empty promises. I know I'm far from a perfect wife but I do not do anything to direspect our marriage. I was once so upset that I thought I'd give him a taste of his own medicine by doing the same. I only made it until midnight and hated every moment of it as I felt so absurd being at a bar...I was also breastfeeding so wanted to make it home before my daughter got hungry!!
I've kicked him out of our room this week...something I've done before but it only lasted four days. Today I suggested we see a marriage counselor and he wasn't into that. He said 'some people see bars as a problem others see it as a solution'. Yes, I've been very difficult lately but I do believe it's largely because of his late nights. I don't know what to do next!
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I agree with flashback. I don't think 1 or 2 late nights out a month is unreasonable, especially as you say he does not shirk his responsibilities the next day. And just because he's out in Wanchai doesn't mean he's up to no good. I have missed my husbands phone calls many times when out in noisy bars.
You are clearly very upset, though. Could hormones be playing a part? A couple of friends who are mothers told me they were on emotional rollercoasters for a few months after giving birth.
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My husband is not a morning person. To say he is a pre 2pm person is stretching it. On a Sunday, I kick him out the house around 10am. I send him away to eat breakfast, read the paper and drink coffee all on his own. He comes back by 1pm.
This is the best for all our family. Sleeping in by him creates a weird presence in the house, trying to keep the kids quiet too hard, putting up with awake grumpy bear too annoying.
The thing is, he is very appreciative of this small amount of day off time to himself. He loves the kids and wants to hang, just not first thing on a Sunday morning. I get a happy, involved dad most of the day, for a very small time investment. I get to do pretty much what I would have planned with the rest of the day with a very happy spouse. The day goes beautifully and my special treat - a hand run bubble bath by my spouse and a glass or two of wine with a good book, while he does the bed time routine (my time against his time) gives us both time off in a day off.
The kids are happy - they always have at least one happy parent. The thing is - if this is his much needed time to himself, are you getting yours?
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Wanchai? From what I heard that bunch of guys, marriage or not.. it's make me sick when I listen to the story from one of them.. Maybe not all do the same but this groups of people said going there for a beer till 3 am when the fact they have another things beside beer..
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You have a baby to care for. He needs caring too. He needs an outlet as maybe the new arrival has added new responsibilities on top of other responsibilities he is currently faced with. Find a reliable babysitter and join him often for a few hours to chill and unwind. Life routine takes a turn with the arrival of any newborns. I know you are an incredibly responsible and wonderful mother, and he is the same in his role as a father. You are both at risk of losing each other in your relationship as husband and wife. This needs urgent attention. Plan to have more time doing things together as husband and wife. The burden of family needs and responsibilities can be overpowering and weighty combined with demands from his work. Take short time out TOGETHER ALONE - and rekindle the relationship and salvage it from gradual fragmentation. You need time out as much as he does. It is only a period of transition and adjustment. Together you both can weather these challenges. Disunity and blame serves to divide. Focus on the virtues and adapt to each others changing needs. Compassionate communication is the key. Think kindly of each other. Hope it helps. Good Luck
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I must thank everyone for their advice and I think I'm going to follow those of you who suggested the 'low key' approach. I'm going to try to control my anger, something which seems harder for me to do as of late (must be the post-natal hormones) and be a supportive wife. Despite these recent outings, my husband is very supportive of me and the kids and I should be thankful for that.
I'll try the silent treatment when he comes home late and avoid the threats. I can understand that he's a bit stressed out as I certainly find myself to be at times. I suppose I also need to find some me-time, something which I haven't been doing at all lately!
I do feel much better after reading all of your suggestions (not that I agree with all of you). I've never posted for advice online before but I'm happy that I did...it's important to get others' perspectives.
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Loyd,
We're both English-speaking and we both have full-time jobs. I rush home quickly after work and get home by 5, allowing me to spend the whole evening with the kids and husband, when he arrives. My husband is not isolated as he speaks to many colleagues and clients during the day. In fact, it may be me who is islolated as I seldom have a chance to socialize at work. It's not just 'the wife' who is busy with the kids but my husband also is, as he should be. The kids are with the helper all weekdays so we make sure from 5pm onwards they're either with me or my husband. Loyd, childcare may be 'boring' for him at times but no more 'boring' than it is for me sometimes (I mean diaper changing and monotonous chores)! That's part of the package of having children.
Huggy's suggestion for not taking 'me' time but instead 'us' time is a possibility at times but is also double-standard as he has his 'me' time why shouldn't I have mine?? This way he can be with the kids when I'm having my 'me' time and I don't have to leave them with the helper unnecissarily. Although I do agree it's important to have time together, we both have full-time jobs and 3 children so have to limit the amount of US time in order to spend as much time as possible with the kids. When they're a bit older I'm sure things will change.
The thing that bothers me is that there's a definite 'double standard' undertone to some, not most, of the advice. It seems that because he is a man he should be allowed to let off some steam, have his 'me time' and an understanding spouse who just smiles and asks him how his night was when he comes home at 3 or 4. I'm assuming most of this type of advice is coming from men who do not have 3 young children at home!
I'm quite sure if my husband was on this forum complaining about a wife who was out til 3 or 4 the responses might be different. The fact is that I am also busy at work and at home and I have just as much a right to be stressed. So much sympathy for a 'man's stress' is unwarranted. I have the stress of being an equal earner (and for many years the main bread-winner) of our family and raising our kids. I do believe that he's experiencing stress but no more than I am. Having an outlet for that stress is important but I still believe being out til 3 or 4 is not the way to handle it. However, getting angry is doing me no good so ignoring the behaviour is the best that I can offer up right now--asking him how his night out was will sound, and be, utterly insincere.
I hope no stay-at-home moms are misreading me when I say that I have the stresses of a full-time job and childcare. As far as I'm concerned any full-time mom has a more stressful and busy job than either me or my husband!!
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FKKC
15 yrs ago
sagebean,
You definitely deserve your 'me' time but 'us' time is equally important. Spending time with the kids together is also very valuable in bonding & strengthening a family.
Your husband should have 'his' time because a marriage works well when there are some spaces in-between for both partners but the time spent away from their spouses should be within (typing error before) reasonable hours. Your husband's time out till 3-4AM is really not logical and he should realize that. Doesn't his drinking friends have families? Hope you can solve this problem soon as it's not a good sign.
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hubba
15 yrs ago
You need to take a time out.. do you have somone like parents to look after your kids for you? you should take a vacation or something without your hubby.. really..
or book yourself a vacation.. or go out some dinner with a male escort or something. I mean DO SOMETHING.. you are at home most of the time.. so you no matter which corner you go.. you see the same problems.. and it is just ain't gonna help!
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My husband used to do the same thing. Turns out he was having an affair. The fact that he is apologetic and is a good father means nothing. My husband was the same way. Protect yourself.
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Handsome means nothing in Wantchai, its money that talks
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Loyd,
If my husband prefers 'a less-confrontational woman' who will say,'Doesn't your wife take care of you? Let me help you.' then he married the wrong person. If this less confrontational and very submissive woman attracts my husband than I'd no longer find him attractive/ desirable. Rather I'd find him quite pathetic and undeserving of my love. However, I do believe my husband married me because he fell in love with my independence and sometimes confrontational ways. That doesn't mean I don't take care of him but I expect to be taken care of in return.
Despite this, I realize there are many men who need to be taken care of, without reciprocating, and constantly need their egos to be stroked. I also believe such men are lacking in self-confidence and probably haven't cut the string to momma's apron.
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Quote from Loyd
'I think women do the same thing only it tends to come when they realise they have married a loser'
Loyd, I think the 'loser' you're referring to is well described in your previous post. As for me having a lot of competition, it can only be considered competition if I were competing for my husband, I'm not-nor do I plan to. Marriage should have put an end to such competition. If not, there's really not much I can do as I'm certainly not willing to 'compete' against women who will lower themselves to getting a married man. In the end, he's a free-agent and if he makes such a choice then he really doesn't deserve me. However, I honestly believe the man that I married is not capable of justifying or rationalizing such behavior.
I'm sorry you consider my previous post as a 'classic put-down'-perhaps such a negative view of this type of a man has put you on the defensive. I'm afraid that instead of giving me 'access to the male mind' you are giving me access to yours. However, I have no doubt that there are men who think like this but I'm sure there are many who don't!
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I am a guy twice married and with children, now grown up, and have lived a few years in Asia. I've learned a hell of a lot from my own bad behaviour but also from seeing others. I think your answer should be letting him have a night out until whatever time he wants once a fortnight, and that you should expect the same, once a fortnight, while he minds the kids. On the alterbate weeks you should go out together, sans kids. That way you all get a bit of togetherness plus independence, and don't feel stifled. As for the trust about what he's actually doing on his night out - well, at least he answers his phone, that's a good sign - maybe just don't think about it, it will drive you to distraction. Men will be men and will always be different to women, and stifling a man is always a good way to drive him away. The thing to keep him around is your nights out together (make them just as much fun), and making sure he stays bonded with the kids so he can't stand being away from them ("I can't imagine what it would be like not to see your own kids grow up" - this was my greatest regret when I divorced). Hope this helps.....
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A male perspective.
Three things spring to mind when I read this thread.
The first one is depression. Your husband may be suffering. I am not making excuses, but if this is a problem and it can bve recognised then you can start to cope with a problem and not just the symptoms.
Possible causes: New baby, extra resposibility, job insecurity in the current economy, mid-life thing, feeling the need to take some control back over his life (if he feels he has lost some).
The second thing.
He is putting himself into a position of temptation. Even if that is not his intention. He needs to find some way to let off steam in a less risky environment.
The third thing.
The new baby will have changed the family dynamic. A new baby is very demanding, naturally. This could have created a different balance, that your husband is not content with.
Like I said these are not excuses, and may not be the case. But they do bare thinking about IMHO.
I now await my usual flaming.
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LGMV - very harsh. If Sagebean is on the defensive she has every right to be, she is worried about her marriage. I also have to say that there does seem to be a double standard when it comes to acceptable behaviour from men and women. After reading some of Sagebean's posts i can understand where she is co ing from: mother with a new baby, working full time, struggling to balance family and worklife and dealing with the worry that here husband is out in Wanchai till 3am.
Whilst I agree that we all need to let off steam and having one or two very late nights with the lads is no problem, is dooes become so when the late nights become regular and the spouse at home is concerned about it - this works both ways, I know quite a few women who also indulge in this kind of behaviour.
If you wnat to know what is so special about Sagebean, the answer is simple - she's his wife.
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I understand your argument LGMV but it just seems like another excuse for this kind of behaviour. We all face stress in our lives, have committments and pressures that stifle us at times, how we deal with it is what counts.
Personally, if that was my husband out carousing till all hours I'd have given him a swift kick up the arse a long time ago, but that's me, confrontational.
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Is there anything he would like you to make an effort with ? Maybe you could make a deal, he comes back home before 1am, and you make an effort on something else... that way, he knows that he can't reproach you anything if he comes later...
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Wolfsbaine, if you were married for 10 years with 3 kids, what would you think if your wife appeared in a bar at 1am in front of your mates, with your kids ?? would you gently go back home as you suddenly been shocked in the good way, or would you blame her to be stupid to do such a thing ?? what would you think of a woman using her kids to solve a couple situation ?
Sagebean is just going through a phase with her husband that they need to solve to go on together, she does not need to make him feel ashamed and to involve their children.
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SVicY
15 yrs ago
I agree with philvirg, Sagebean is just going through a phase, and probably her husband too. I saw that in my parents when i was still living at home. I'm the oldest of 3 child and after my mom had my lil brother she was always going out with her friends and no come home until very late. (interesting how it wasnt my dad who was 'running away' from the responsibilities of the family)
Family can get you very stressful. There's no doubt my mom loves us but the addition of my brother might've overwhelmed her. My dad worked alot and sometimes had to stay over in China, and if he called him telling us that he wont be back that night my mom would call up her friends and go to their house, play marjhong all night long, leaving me alone with my baby bother and my younger sister. Not the most responsible thing to do for a parent but I really could understand her frustration. Its clear that she was trying to 'escape' from the house whenever she could....Maybe Sagebean's husband is just overwhelmed by the responsibilies of being a husband and a father (esp with the newborn), going out with his buddies are so carefree and its like an escape. it doesnt have to be an affair, rather its a man or a woman, sometimes we just want to get away, esp in HK!...he might not know why hes out with his friends till late all the time, but he just simply feel relax...not that its an excuse to leave u worry and all...maybe a good thing to do is to show him this thread, so he can read what affect his reaction has on you. if he loves you he would come up with something...because running away from the problem does not solve it.
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Tulip
15 yrs ago
read up on tigerbay and SVicy again and try to accept the facts that there is trouble coming to your relationship ...not marriage because he still is function as a perfect father.
couples go through stages changes and sometimes it's hard for them to cope up together if there are problems with communication.
to tell you frankly, you channel your stress thru anger by attacking his behavior. the more effective way is to get rid of your stress and face him when your already at peace with yourself (that's your "me" time/opportunity). remind yourself that the stress that you put yourself into is not his fault but it's your decision. it's the lifestyle that you planned for yourself but with his approval. he respected your choice.
his behavior is unacceptable for his situation (father of 3). he needs to open up to you and accept his failures. men are like kids - they always want your attention (w/ or without the babies). every addition to the family is a treat to them - it's as simple as that.
it maybe too much for you but you have to keep your relationship on the top spot and your kids only second.
you have been married for 10 yrs. i'm sure you know him well enough it's just that you haven't been focusing on him lately. spare yourself the negative thoughts and him the negative treatment. treat him like your partner and the father of your child.
respect begets respect.
goodluck and have peace.
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I am a man and I strongly believe that there is a 100% probability that regular outings at bars in Wanchai past midnite involve fooling around.
This may be difficult for women to comprehend but I think that it does not mean the marriage is in danger or that he does not love his wife. It is more about the entertainment and the thrills. nothing so serious in my opinion.
most probably not real emotions involved. If he had a mistress that would be different but if this was the case he would be out more often and there would be other signs.
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Hi Sagebean, Just been reading your thread and will let you know that there are alot of expat wives out there who have gone through the same thing. I have a wonderful and supportive husband who is great with my 3 children who occasionally goes on 3am benders with colleagues. I also have to agree with Flashback's advice that going on the least defensive route usually yields the most information. If you can, go and meet the "friends" that your husband is socialising with, then they won't be a mystery. Marriage counselling can be extremely useful at the juncture where the third child has arrived, you are both working full time and need a professional, who is impartial, to help smooth communication and expectations going forward. Some of the suggestions on this thread are quite extreme and could lead to mistrust and further problems than you already have. You certainly sound like someone who loves your husband very much but is frustrated. Marriage, as you know, is a lifelong work-in-progress, so what may have worked in the past may not work for you now. I wish you all the best to re-ignite your marriage.
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selda
15 yrs ago
i don't think there is anything wrong if he goes out a couple of nights a month, for a drink with his mates. Sometimes when my bf is very stressed out i suggest that myself!
You should do the same, a couple of nights a month you can go out with your girlfriends, till late, while your husband looks after the kids.
However, if he misses your calls while he is in a loud bar, and doesn't call back within an hour, i would get worried...it could mean that there are some distractions that make him forget he has a wife at home.
It would be a good idea to invite his mates around for dinner, in order to get a bit closer to them...meeting their wives/girlfriends etc. can certainly help to draw a clearer picture.
But at the end of the day, you have to trust him...and your instinct. You cannot be with him all the time. And as matter of fact business trips tend to be more dangerous than Wanchai bars, as Wanchai is a place where he can bump into mutual acquaintances/friends. Not a safe playground for married men!
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Not picking up the phone? Hanging out in Wanchai?
2 + 2 = there is a very high chance that he has taken a girl out of one of the bars and is in a sleezy motel and of course cannot answer your call.
I'd be very unhappy if my husband was out until all hours anywhere let alone Wanchai. This stinks!
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To My Hong Kong, your points are valid but I have some friends who divorced. Few of them had another women in their life but of all the men I know who left their wife for another women or re-married after, it was NEVER because the other woman was a better cook or better at cleaning the house. NEVER.
One additional note. I may love my wife's cooking but sometimes I like to eat out at the restaurant. I do not love my wife or her cooking any less because of it. It has nothing to do with it.
If this guy was going out 2 or more times each week, then there is a major problem. but a couple of times a month. I think he still loves his wife no matter what happens when he goes out.
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Wolfsbaine,
Thanks..from one Australian girl to one Australian guy. I do miss strong aussie logic.
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Well, I do appreciate the different opinions on my situation even if I may not agree with them all. It's certainly not black/ white and even my feelings on the matter are constantly changing. Some days I think, 'let it be...he's just blowing steam off with his friends and needs some time away'. However, at other times I think 'time away is one thing, but beiing in a bar for 8 hours is no way for a married man with 3 kids to spend his time...ever!' In fact, Wolfsbaine's plan of 'a hard kick in the but and bringing the kids to the bar' have entered into my fantasies when I was most angered. However, I knew this was not the way I wanted to handle things.
Of course the worst is when I have thoughts of what he could possibly be doing in a bar for so long. Most of me believes that my husband is incapable of cheating but then I think most women probably believed this about their cheating husbands. I sometimes question whether my trust is foolish..this questioning usually occurs between 3-4am when my husband is still out!
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Dear Sagebean, I am an husband with children.
My advice is to make sex with your husband, expecially the night before he is planning a night out. And also when he comes back (drunk?) at 3AM, no matter what, pretend sex from him. Don't ask questions, just pure and raw sex. That is what we need anyway.
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Hi,
God most of the people here are so full ofsh*t.
Your husband is an expat working in asia, he works hard for his money to support you and your children.
He needs some time off and understanding just as much as you do.
How about just finding a baby sitter, booking a nice restraunt and go out for dinner with him and have some fun instead of feeling sorry for yourself.
get your communications back again
Nothing worse for a busy man under stress in extremely bad economic times than a wife that bleets at him when he gets home after an extremely stressful day at work.
he just needs to let off steam and talk with people, just the same you do when you have friends over for coffee etc or go out to meet them .
Michael
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mtrothe,
I'm a bit sick of the double standard thing. You said, 'Your husband is an expat working in asia, he works hard for his money to support you and your children.'
Look, if you've read the previous posts you'd know that I'm also working hard for money to support him and my children...in fact, I was previously the main breadwinner. However, I don't think that's the point as many stay-at-home moms work just as hard but don't see the money. That certainly doesn't make them any less stressed or busy.
As for my husband's need to 'let off steam and talk with people, just the same as you do when you have friends over for coffee'...I don't think you can compare the two and the assumption that I have heaps of time to have friends 'over for coffee' or 'feel sorry for myself' shows a complete lack of understanding of what it means to be a mother/ father of three. I think you've obviously got some of your own issues
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Sagebean, I'm in the same situation as you, although I know my husband does not hang out in Wanchai but more LKF. I also recently gave birth and is in full-time employment. My husband tells me I should go out and hang out with my mates too, but its hard for a woman to leave her baby at home with the helper and go out all night. This is a classic men vs women scenario I guess, and there is absolutely no right or wrong. He finds it hard to understand why I feel so strongly against his boys-only-night-outs, and I cant understand why he cant find joy in just spending his spare time with his family. Its important to find a compromise I think. I have agreed to let him go out once a week, but spend all weekends at home with me and the baby. He might just be going through a phase, and sooner or later will grow out of it. I agree to some of the comments above, having serious talks with him is important, express your feelings and at the same time come up with ideas and solutions to solve the problem. The main thing right now is not to get too worked up about it, may be he is just having a couple of drinks with mates and not necessarily cheating on you. The more you think about it in a negative way the more it will get you down and damages to your relationship with your hubby.
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Hanikwok and Sagebean i agree with Billyboy;
i would bet most men in this town are escaping from a nagging wife /partner always complaining about money etc etc never satisfied with anything even though the guy works his tail off
then he has the choice of a night out having some laughs with the mates or spending time with one of the inexhaustable supply of attractive ladies what is he going to do?
just personal experience
try to be at least a little appreciative of what your husband does(if he is a good provider and not a loser!)other wise his resentment will build up without you knowing and he will be looking to escape in the arms of someone else
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Thanks for the useful advice, hannikwok.
As for the other recent posters, I feel that these men have a view of a woman with any complaint as 'whining and nagging'. The term 'angry woman' is most often used by men who feel that women do not have the right to complain or expect much...they see these women as very opposite to the 'young, gentle, attractive, feminine and non angry ladies' of Wanchai which Billyboy2 describes. Such women won't complain about their shortcomings...at least not until the money runs out...and I'm assuming it must be quite expensive for you, Billyboy2, as it is not likely your charm which makes for such easy trips to the hotels.
Someone who describes every poster here as 'full of sh*t' is undoubtedly more angry than myself...but it's unlikely you use the term 'angry man' with such negative connotaions. Femininists have historically been referred to as 'angry' by men who feel intimidated by them. I suppose you're in the right place as the economic inbalances here allow even the male chauvenists a chances that would seldom exist back home.
At any rate, I do not consider myself an angry person. I am angry/ upset about this particular situation and would appreciate serious advice, preferably not from men with chips on their shoulders.
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see billyboy, you may be <> but your wife is not really. (Or maybe she is too, and you/we do not know). Anyway I can see that the women contributing to this forum are talking about feelings, while men about sex. I guess sagebean does not want to talk about her sexual life here, but she should think about it seriously and make sure her husband get enough sex at home. It is good for both.
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I cannot disagree more with the viewpoints of most men here.
There is no reason for a married man to be hanging about until all hours of the night in the sleezy part of town EVER!
If my husband were to go out for dinner and drinks once or twice a WEEK I would have no problem with that. But if he came home in the middle of the night I would not be happy. He of course would never do that not because he fears me but because he RESPECTS me.
Sorry but there is absolutely no reason for a married man to be exhibiting such behaviour and any self respecting wife should not tolerate this. If he wants to have a few happy hour drinks on friday with his friends in soho or LKF then all fine but Wanchai all night, he is up to no good.
Sadly I have seen many marriages go down the drain over similar behaviour. The man gets a taste of the easy sex in Wanchai and he dabbles, the wife challenges him on this and they end up parting ways over it.
Its up to you, do you accept or do you stand your ground?
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Sagebean you make a fairly valid point
"Such women won't complain about their shortcomings...at least not until the money runs out...and I'm assuming it must be quite expensive for you,"
yes there is always a financial cost to picking up girls in wanachai or wherever as girlfriends (a lot are amahs by the way ) just as there is a financial cost to wife and kids
if you just want to look purely monetary terms a mistress is cheaper than a wife short and long term
whatever happens the guy pays
btw if you really want to save the marriage you may have to do as my hong kong says -look for a way and get him out of Asia -he may well be a different person that you want in a different environment
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so sagebean, we all want to know, what are you going to say/do next time your husband goes to Wanchai? Did you get any precious advice from sillyboy or husbandhopper or saddick? Listen to me, no anger, no questions. Let him go out, but tell him you will wait and pretend sex when he comes home. This is the third time I tell you, and the last. I do not see any better advice in the posts above. And anyway sex workers are like seveneleven, everywhere, always open for business, and cheap (and legal too). No need to go to Wanchai at 3AM for that.
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A few years ago my hubby used to do the exact same thing and I felt exactly the way that you do. He didn't do it all the time, but more often than I was happy about. However, I'm pleased to say that he did eventually grow out of it ... he got fed-up with the late nights and having to get up early for work next morning, and fed-up with feeling like crap. After a while, if I knew he was going out, I started to arrange nights out with my girlfriends just for a quiet dinner and a couple of drinks, as I was sick of staying in alone if it was on a Friday night. I don't do it very often, but the funny thing is that occasionally when I do go out for dinner with the girls, one drink leads to another and strangely enough I have been known to be out until the wee small hours ... we girls have a lot to talk about! When I get home now, hubby is tucked up in bed waiting for ME!
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Well Sapphire,
It's comforting to know that it might just be a phase. I hope my siuation turns out like yours!
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Sagebean ~ hang in there! Try not to nag him too much (I know it's hard!), as it might push him in the wrong direction. The most important thing is to make sure you make time for yourself ... don't let him get away with having all the fun! And I don't mean that in a tit-for-tat kind of way ... you really do need to have some time without the kids to chill out and relax with the girls occasionally ... it's amazing how a night out with friends now and again will help you not stress out so much about him going out with his mates. If you don't have a helper make sure hubby does the babysitting so that you can have a night out. And even if you do have a helper I'd still get hubby to do the babysitting sometimes so he knows what it's like to take care of 3 kids while your out enjoying yourself! Also, that way, your helper can have an early night and get up with the kids next morning so that you can have a lie in!!
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Ed
15 yrs ago
FYI: Island Hopper was banned for posting numerous inappropriate comments.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
More deletions - hit report abuse if I have missed anything
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Just seen this - original post - Sounds like he is an alcoholic- suggest he goes to AA in Borrett Road - his behavour is very, very familiar ....
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When he drinks he gets drunk .........he stays out to 3 am every time - he can't control his drinking - Yes- unfortunately many people think that alcoholics are always drunk. The word alcoholic is thrown around alot and usually this is usually in the wrong context.
The definition of alcoholism is: a physical or mental dependence on alcohol.
Many people are alcoholics and rarely drink but when they do they need another and another. They can also need a beer first thing in the morning to "wake up" like some of us do with coffee.
The key thing is there must be a "dependance" not just the fact people regularly get drunk when they do drink. If they are drunk all the time and are not dependant on the alcohol then they are just getting drunk (albeit often)
And of course. You can be a alcoholic and not even drink....
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Finding it hard to understand how you can be a alcoholic with drinking alcohol......
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I have been to Wanchai many, many times until late at night/early in the morning and not once have I even felt the inclination to sleep with any of the hookers there or the helpers who go there for a bit of extra cash.
I fit a similar modus operandi as the OP's husband in that I like to go out with friends a couple of times a month and also love my wife and my kids. This is getting blown way out of proportion if you ask me.
Paneristi- sounds like you are coping well with the programme- what step are you on?
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Jim J
15 yrs ago
Once or twice a MONTH? Keep whipping him, and watch how fast it becomes once or twice a week. If he pulls his weight around the house, cut him some slack. He needs his time wit da fellas--especially with a busy, noisy house like yours. I noticed that you didn't mention his JOB. High-income, high-pressure, one of those? If so, all the more reason to let him blow off a little steam once in a blue moon. And, believe me, 12 to 24 times a year where I come from (NYC) is exactly that. You mentioned that one of his drinking buds is a lush, and the other a womanizer. I hope you didn't mention that to HIM. If you want him to become a skirt-chasing barfly, there is no better way than telling him that you don't really trust him. The ol' self-fulfilling prophesy, y'know? Leave him alone.
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sagebean,
when i 1st read your post, i wanna show you my empathy. i will be very upset n feeling very insecured if i were you, eventho he is just out drinking like a fish. but There is no 'fairness'nor rigid 'black or white' in relationship,but consideration and compromises. (ppl pls dont pick my useage of vocab) would it be fair if the hubby cheats, then the wife can do the same to call an even? i know couples who have open relationships, they fool around and even introduce their prey to the spouses, in most of our typical/usual/health/norm relationships practice, these ppl are 'wrong' in some sense, agree? but as long as their partners are happy with that, and being honest and comfortable with the habbit, it becomes a 'right' thing for them to do. what am i trying to say is, relationships are about two partners care about and respect to each other, and to compromise in order to please their love ones. in your case, your hubby doesnt do a good job in caring about your feelings with his actions. to him, god knows he might think you havent be considerated enough giving him his freedom. which freesom doesnt mean he can fool around as it's quite clear that you wouldnt want him to have any kind of affair with the other women. so, when you talk to your hubby, forget about what he shouldnt do nor how a married man should be, but just about how you feel when he is out, ie, you worry abt him getting invovle with women. i am totally on your side and agreed with all your point of views, (even tho your replies to the posts), but i dont feel right about that 'a married man spending 8 hrs in bar and not spending time with the kids and wife' thing, may be you are ok for him to spend 8 hours doing something on his own, but not in a bar where is full of temptations. again, it's not about right or wrong, should or shouldnt, it's all about how you feel and what you worry. so, tell him what you are worrying about, thats the only thing that matters at the mo, and not giving him chance to make excuses that'my wife is being demending not letting me to relax'
i havent read all the posts but i managed to read some of your replies to some of those horrible ppl full of bias. i have so much respect for you, you are not that an emotional woman even going thro the potentcial family crisis, you ave very positive and strong but fair opinions about things which speak up for women and made those guys fail in comparsion big time, you show your good manners and wittiness even you are under some sterotyping attacks, and you talk logically and different like some ppl being distacted by their own sh*t.
i am thinking, if you always have gd communication with your hubby, which i think you may do since you are an excellent commincater, may be you can show your hubby all these posts might help him to have a clearer picture of what's going on, how you feel, how desperate you are and how bad the implications look with his normal, decent night outs. more important thing is, while i am reading your words, i tell myself, i would love to have a wife like her if i were a man, i am qutie convinced that this must be one of your attractions you man sees in you.
may be you both can make a like a joke and dismiss all the clouds, and work out with some solutions like how can he give you confidence while he is out, may be calling you every period of time and be willing to have you to pick him up something like that? i am quite positive with your situation, not that i think men are reliable, but you are a good person who deserves and defo gain his love.
i wish you all the best and sunshine comes again soon.
p.s. let's face the fact that we women gotta suffer a bit form the men's basic instinct, and we better provide a happy and easy situation for them to talk about problems or they tend to avoid, show them our unconditional love n' hope for their apprications. sounds pathetic but yet it's realistic and a psychologial trick.
looking forward to hearing your good news soon!
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oh, and if you wanna have a night out to balance you busy life, enlarge your social network for a bit (not getting back to your hubby tho, we gotta be positive! ) call me!! we can talk about children as well!! :)
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Obviously this is an upsetting situation Sagebean, and while some people might have been a little insensitive, that doesn't mean there isn't also some truth in what was said.
You don't think his behaviour is acceptable from a married man. First you have to realise that is JUST your opinion. That's all it is, it isn't fact. Some will agree with you, some will strongly disagree. 2 nights out a month does not seem excessive to me, it seems healthy. There are no fixed set of rules of what a man should do. Your husband probably does many things with the children that other husbands and fathers don't do. He doesn't sound like a bad guy.
So lets put this in perspective. He goes out 2 nights a month with some friends, which means he is with you the other 28 nights of the month. His priority is clear there. He never shirks his family responsibilities (even if he has been drinking/hangover). This shows his commitment to family.
He doesn't have to come home. He doesn't have to tell you he is going to Wanchai. He doesn't even have to be married to you if he doesn't want. Yet he does stay married, he does come home, and he is telling you where he is and answering the phone while out etc. He chose to marry you, and he is still choosing that. Remind yourself of that when you're feeling those jealous thoughts that I'm sure we have all had at one time or another.
Now for the part that people have been telling you that maybe or maybe didn't get through. A decent man, who is happy at home and with his wife will find it very hard to cheat. It is never impossible, but if he is happy with you, it is unlikely he will cheat. As soon as you start making home 'uncomfortable' for him, regardless of whose fault the argument is, he becomes more and more likely to cheat. And it can build up in a man.
If you are reasonable and he cheats, that is awful for you, but that is 100% his fault.
But if you push him to cheat, by making his home life uncomfortable, having arguments or jealous and insecure behaviour, then you will be to blame too. I don't think you want that...
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Sagebean,
First of all, I am very sorry you are going through this. Your intuition and feelings are right. This isn't fair and its not right to do to someone. I have had a lot of history with alcoholic and alcohol abusers in my life. I know how it feels to be left at home alone wondering where your husband is. It is nothing you are doing wrong. Have you asked him why he goes out so much more often? I agree that the occasional night out with friends is fine and probably necessary, but why has it increased? I think that sitting at home being the doting wife is not a great idea. Why reward the negative behavior? Having angry discussions once he gets home is useless as well as he is probably very drunk. Also, the morning after arguments are also not effective as he is still affected by the booze until a good 24 hours later. I think that counseling is a healthy idea-whether its you or the two of you. One thing that I have learned to do is to set boundaries. If you don't want him going out that late, than have an honest discussion about what's causing it. If there is increased stress for his job or family life, find another positive way to blow off steam. Try to get to the underlying reasons. But remember that with alcoholics, you are not the cause, you can't control it, and you won't cure it...period.
That being said, you may want to read a book called "Co-dependent no more." Excellent and very helpful. Be prepared that if he is struggling with alcoholism, that it will get worse. Are you ready to leave? Have you said to him, "I find this behavior unacceptable and I won't stand for it." Raising children around an alcoholic parent is terrible. I wish my father had left my mother long ago and maybe I wouldn't have all these demons! Thank god for therapy. There are english speaking Alanon groups here that could be of benefit.
The bottom line is that this behavior can not continue or it will really hurt you and your children. Who cares if he's cheating, this is bad enough. Hong Kong is a tough place because so much of the social life is focused on drinking. I don't envy your situation and I hope that these suggestions help. And again, one thing I've learned is that those "feelings" you are having are correct and always, always trust your gut. If at any point, he becomes verbally or physically abusive, get your children out. It may not be bad idea to look into have two accounts so that if you need to leave quickly you can.
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I am the only one who thinks it is very strange that someone would complain that their partner goes out twice a month? TWICE A MONTH?! My god, is that what marriage means? That you are not allowed to go out with your mates and unwind? I make sure that my partner and me have part of our social lifes seperate. Makes life much more interesting, and gives you something more to talk about.
To add insult to injury, because he is going out 16 hours in the month, he must be sleeping with hookers? How naive is that. If a married guy wants to be unfaithful, it is more likely to be sober, across the office desk, rather then drunk in a sleazy Wanchai bar. I am kinda tempted (tongue in cheek here) to say, if I had someone waiting at home tapping their fingers, I would be going out a lot more then twice a month!
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There is no problem with going out twice a month and i dont think there would be a problem with going out once a week with the boys, at least with me that would not be a problem and I dont think it is a problem with the wife posting this.
The problem is that the husband is cavorting in the very well known whore house district of Hong Kong coming home pissed in the middle of the night.
Why Wanchai? It is a sleezy place. Why not a respectable part of the city that is not crawling with street whores and where the vast majority of the bars are not gogo bars or are full of hookers?
If he only wants a beer and a laugh why not go to Soho or Wyndham St? What's so appealing about Wanchai?
I think we all know why he is in Wanchai and its not for the cold beer.
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Some people prefer more down to earth places, myself included. Soho is fine, but if you want a casual drink, Wanchai is much more fun. It is also a bit more mixed then your pure yuppie expats/locals in Central way.
I love Wanchai, and lived there, used to go to Fenwicks, Lagunas and all other sordid places. I was in a relationship then, and not once did I stray- or was I even tempted. If you are talking hookers, LKF is full of them, just go to the big Irish pub opposite Bit Point....
FYI there are plenty of bars in Wanchai that are not hooker bars/gogo bars.
If the guy wants to get pissed, isn't that his business? Apparently it is not effecting his "duties".
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Sorry but out pissed till 4am with the phone turned off. This is the 5 alarm fire bell going off.
Wanchai is not down to earth at that time of the night it is downright sleezy. He is up to no good and sorry to tell you I know what Fenwicks is and it is a disgusting pit.
What respectable person spends his nights out in such filthy places when he has a family at home? What type of man hangs about in bars full of hookers when he has children and a wife waiting for him? Doesn't matter if he is there and not taking hookers to love hotels, why the need to go to such places? Exactly why go into a bar like Fenwicks? Is that what you consider a down to earth place? If so what do you consider uppity, Insomnia?
A decent husband would go to decent places with his friends and Fenwicks and the vast majority of bars in Wanchai do not qualify by any stretch of the imagination. This behaviour is insulting to a wife and family.
Very simple solution to the concern ask him why he loves Wanchai exclusively and why he never goes to other parts of town for a drink
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Both the men and woman right here: going out and blowing off steam is okay and healthy and men need to be more sensitive with the ones they love - especially the woman who gave birth to their whole clan - ouch.
"Men are simple" (I am not a feminist I love you buggers) but you just need to value their contributions, give them acceptance and most importantly give them a lot of love and sex (dirty sex and til' death do us part sex) - that keeps them coming back for more. They don't really need anything else. It's a bonus if you can cook.
I am sure you are very frustrated, under-slept, feeling unattractive, fed up and tired but you cannot forget their need to be attended to as well.
Forget about the late night outings for now and focus on being the best wife to him and celebrate his strengths all the while dressing as sexy as you can. Tall order? You bet but watch the results. You have to make him want to come home to you. Focus on what you can give him instead of what he can give you.
Alas, I don't think 8 hours in a sleazy part of town until 3-4 a.m. is a good thing for a married man but if you follow my advice and forget about it instead focus on making your marriage exciting, you'll see results over-night and feel like you have some control of your life as well.
Good luck.
P.S. How can you get your man to stop checking out girls when you're out together? Any answers men?
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HkJay
15 yrs ago
Some of the comments here are clearly from women who have never been in a serious relationship and have a fantasyland idea of what it is like.
Going out twice a month is not excessive at all- in fact I have happily married friends who go out once a week with the lads. So long as it's not interfering with work or he's coming home with his pants on backwards then there's nothing wrong with him spending time drinking with his friends.
Some of the comments about Wanchai are hilarious. I especially like the one advising to break up your family because he dared step foot in the place. Might as well never leave the house given that prostitutes frequent all of the expat drinking areas in HK.
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Wow! Sorry I've been so long in responding. Some of these comments have been useful, some hilarious and others not deserving of a response. I'm afraid this topic has gotten a bit off topic.
Firstly, my husband is not an alcoholic and never comes home 'pissed drunk'. In fact, he seldom would drink more than 2-3 alcoholic beverages as he's very health-conscious. He is however very sociable and loves chatting with friends.
Secondly, Shakster, I do realize this is 'Just my opinion'. However, I expect my husband to take my opinion into consideration.
On another note, I have received many pms from men telling me that my husband works so hard to give us a nice home and easy life and I should stop complaining. Firstly, making the bread is no excuse to do whatever you want. Secondly, I also work hard and make slightly more money than my husband (not that this is really the point as housewives also work hard ). I do feel that many of the men posting have their own issues to deal with and they're perhaps venting their frustration/ expectations out on me.
As for palma22's comment, 'I'm not a feminist..I love men'..that made me chuckle, particularly as I AM a feminist and DO love men.
I should make it clear that I think my husband is wonderful in so many ways and outside of these late nights, I have nothing to complain about. I also realize that 2 nights a month is quite normal to many. However, staying out to 3-4 in the morning has upset me despite the fact that it may seem illogical to many...emotions take over where logic leaves off. There could be many reasons for this, including the fact that I have a third addition and, as stated before, feel less attractive after this pregnancy.
About a month ago I decided to tell my husband exactly what my feelings on this subject were, without holding back and without anger, just sincerity. I told him that I have certain expectations, logical or not, and I hope he would consider my feelings. I should also mention that he, too, has expectations and I have shown a willingness to respect and consider him before acting. I think it's really about give and take and being honest about our feelings.
The good news is that he has gone out with friends in the last month but has come back at a decent hour and I feel as if he is showing that he respects my feelings. In the end, I don't think staying out to 3 or 4 is a question of 'right' or 'wrong' but rather a question of respecting what is acceptable in your own marriage. I believe marriage involves compromise and I have also made compromises for him even if I did not think they were 'logical'.
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Good news SageBean- you have, indeed, been sage!
SadSack- I know many girls on the hockey, dragon boating, soccer etc teams who also abide by Kai Tak Rules. It is not only men who stray when on tour!
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It really is quite scary that there are women out there who think going out with some friends for a few drinks is tantamount to being an alcoholic sleeze. And woman wonder why they get called clingy and controlling ;-)
Nothing elitist/closed-minded/judemental/ about the below....
"What respectable person spends his nights out in such filthy places when he has a family at home? What type of man hangs about in bars full of hookers when he has children and a wife waiting for him? Doesn't matter if he is there and not taking hookers to love hotels, why the need to go to such places? Exactly why go into a bar like Fenwicks? Is that what you consider a down to earth place? If so what do you consider uppity, Insomnia?
A decent husband would go to decent places with his friends and Fenwicks and the vast majority of bars in Wanchai do not qualify by any stretch of the imagination. This behaviour is insulting to a wife and family."
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PS Yes, hookers frequent all expat and local drinking areas... we are in Asia people! Go to 141 website and you will see one women brothels in every district every few hundred meters. Do you honestly think they stay at home and don't go to Soho/LKF? They are just not as obvious as Wanchai, especially towards women.
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Sagebean, of course he should 'consider' your opinion. I'm sure he did, he just disagreed with it, probably because deep down he believes he is doing nothing wrong and he 'needs' that time. Now you have made a compromise, which I hope works for you. Just keep an eye out though...make sure there isn't some resentment about this building up, because in a man's mind: he was doing nothing wrong, he didn't agree with your view and you took away one of his needs. If he thinks like that internally, it will show itself in time with some sort of rebellion or bad reactions to you.
It depends on the guy, he might be fine about it if he is getting something out of the 'deal'. Good luck.
Just a final quick question out of curiosity. You expected him to consider your opinion about it being right or wrong. How much did you consider HIS opinion about it before you got upset?
Palma22, there is no way to get him to stop looking at other girls. Some men just have that instinct to look. They don't mean to offend you, and if you did it to other men we would probably be annoyed (sounds unfair, but that's life). We often can't help it. If you say something about it to us, we will still look, just it will be harder for you to notice we are looking :)
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Plenty of guys I know here, unmarried and married (including my husband) go out 3 nights a WEEK to socialise, drink and unwind - until 4am or even 7am! Who's counting - hours fly by when you're having a good time! I usually join in too though I can't keep the pace and often go home a little bit earlier - but not always. Also, a lot of the bars in Central close around 3am so Wanchai is where they/we go to drink more beer! Yes, there are hookers in many of the bars there but there are hookers in plenty of other areas too! And there are also plenty of available non-hookers!
Ok, most of us don't have children but in my circle your husband would be considered pretty quiet in terms of his socialising. Maybe because of your physical insecurity you are being clingy. No-one enjoys insecure, clingy and demanding partners, especially when they are being unreasonable. Sounds like you need a bit of fun too and also need to schedule some time out together without the children.
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LA Woman or should we say Man, I find it strange that a new user suddenly shows up on this forum saying nice things about Wanchai.
It's been mentioned already but I will second it, you know there are many wives watching this conversation and you don't want your Fenwick fun to be spoiled by a nagging wife who begins to suspect the reason for the late nights is a trip to a love hotel.
Very suspicious.
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I am far from a man thank you Innocence. Take or leave my honest opinion... and I didn't say Wanchai was 'nice'. My husband just read your post and is laughing. Lighten up.
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LA Woman, just a question, what is your age group. In my 20's I was probably socialising as much as you. This changed when I got to my 30's and had a kid. I still manage to pull an all-nighter from time to time, but I'd rather have a good night out and wake-up the next day and not feel like cr*p. I don't think Sagebean is being unreasonable at all, making a family work is hard sometimes and small kids can be downright knackering. Perhaps when you and hubby start a family you will understand better. Imagine going on an all night bender every night for 3 months and having to function the next day - except there's no booze, there's crap everywhere and a small person that needs feeding every 3 hours. Welcome to motherhood, lol!
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Vulvic- the OP already said that her husband does not shirk his duties and doesn't come homesh*tfaced.
The OP also never mentioned Fenwicks either- that was added by one of the militants in comfortable shoes.
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Vulvic, please don't be patronising. I am 39 and most of my friends range between early 30's and mid 40's. We work hard and play hard. I have many friends with children that still have a life, though of course not partying 3 nights a week like us. With the help available here Hong Kong is a great place to have the best of both worlds. Who's talking about going on benders every night? That's being silly. Her husband was only going out twice a month for goodness sake!
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Magic 25 - I think your comments are directed at someone else. I never said her hubbie got sh*faced. I did say that I I have pulled an all-nighter from time to time (yes,I am a mum) but would rather not get up the next day feeling crap. As for Fenwicks, I have spent a few nights there myself the same goes for Strawberrys and Boracay.
Think you need to re-read this thread and attack someone else.
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"I find it strange that a new user suddenly shows up on this forum saying nice things about Wanchai. "
It is suspicious to not have a snobbish attitude about one of HK's oldest/colourful districts?
That’s one reason I like drinking in Wanchai, it tends to exclude people with that level of pretentiousness.
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Agree with you Cheeseypeas, my nights out may start in Soho but they inevitabley end in Wanchai. If you are part of the rugby crowd it is mandatory.
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This is not directed at anyone in particular, just my little vent. HK and a lot of cities in Asia are such "toy towns". It's like the things that happen here and the way of life is so surreal. If you never want to grow up, move to Asia. Where else can you party until well into middle age and no one bats an eyelid? I like to have the occasional night out as much as the next person, but personally, I as you grow older, life changes, you can't expect to party like you're still in your 20's. And if you decide to have kids, then it's just a natural progression your party days wind down, with or without a helper.
And ppl who say, "Why can't I still party and go out till 4am" etc etc...it's called growing up, it sucks, but most of us have to deal with it.
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But if you can party, why not? Having fun isn't just for 20 year olds!
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I guess everyone's definition of "fun" is different. When I was in my 20's, I could go out till dawn, go home and get a couple of hours sleep and still be ok for the next day. Now, I'm yawning non-stop by midnight and usually don't sleep as well when I do get to bed, then wake up late the next day and feel lethargic all day. And I don't even drink much. Not as much "fun" as it used to be. I got it out of my system and now am quite happy to stay in with good food and a good DVD, with the ocassional night out partying, instead of the other way around. Plus doesn't going out that much, to pretty much the same places, seeing the same ppl get boring?
I just think one's life changes as one ages, in terms of your past times, lifestyle and even friends. I guess some would think those who are still partying till dawn, several times a week, or on a fairly regular basis, after a certain age are perhaps trying to cling onto their youth and not "aging gracefully". Which doesn't mean one has to take up knitting and be in bed by 9, but just to tone down certain things that you used to do, like partying.
But LA Woman, if you're hitting 40 and can still party till 4am, 3 times a week, and consider it "fun", then each to their own.
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Hi kailyb. In answer to you question, no it doesn't get boring as the circle of friends is very big here, for me at least. Flats are small so it's easier to congregate out - and there are always plenty of new places to go to. There's still 4 other nights of the week to do other things like cinema, meals, gym, hiking or just staying in and reading, studying or watching DVDs etc. It's fine if you don't like to go out much or can't cope with late nights any more. Some of us do and can - both male and female - well into our 40's. Remember also, there are plenty of us that do shift work.
I think the key is balance. I don't have children so I can go out as often as I like, within reason. But even with a family I think it's healthy to go out once in a while - and I personally think that once or twice a month for her husband to let off some steam is hardly anything! He is telling her where he is going, is coming back home and is still performing his duties. I think it's healthy he goes out - and even healthier if they can BOTH go out. Of course this isn't possible for her with a newborn at the moment.
Perhaps her anger is coming from that fact that she is unable to go out herself at the moment whilst he can and that she isn't feeling her physical best and is feeling insecure about him drinking in a neighbourhood that is perceived to her as having lots of young attractive ladies on the prowl. Her thoughts seem irrational esply as we have already said that there are plenty of Wanchai bars to drink in that don't have hookers. There doesn't seem to be any trust. She could be blowing things out of proportion because of her hormones.
ps 'growing up' is overrated! ;)
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Whether or not the OP's thoughts or feelings are "irrational" is not up to anyone else to judge. And I'm quite surprised a woman would put down the feelings of another woman and attritube them merely to "hormones". Esp a woman who admits she's never had children so probably wouldn't understand the struggles of a new mum (with 2 young kids to boot) nor the hormones that go along with it. Let's not dismiss someone's feelings as "blowing things out of proportion" or "hormonal".
In any case, as the OP said, any marriage must include compromise and it seems they have found that.
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So, my opinion's not valid because I don't have children of my own? Thanks for that sister. Don't you think that by my age I have not witnessed and discussed the emotional roller-coasters that friends have been through during pregnancy, child-birth and raising children, some of whom are now in their late teens? I am not putting her down, just stating a possible fact for why she is posting in the first place. Get off your high horse.
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Don't know about SoHo but I have encountered hookers in bars in LKF and TST on a pretty regular basis (sometimes they are the same girls I see in Wanchai). The biggest difference between these places and Wan Chai is that Wan Chai also has the go-go bars which make it seem more sleazy but in fact no expat in his right mind ever goes into those places. Also not every place in Wanchai is the same - there are a couple of places that are basically brothels late at night - but others are mostly groups of friends of mixed gender (there is even a place where the international school students hang out). Wanchai also has some great restaurants. Trying to pretend that all the 'sleaze' in HK is concentrated in one area with everywhere else being 'respectable' is ridiculous. Take a look at all the brothels & 'saunas' in Causeway Bay, North Point, TST, Jordan, Mong Kok .... The fact is that prostitution is an integral part of Hong Kong culture for both locals and expats - to pretend that it is only happening among a few drunk expats in one district of Hong Kong smacks of serious denial.
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sicn
15 yrs ago
Is blowing off your own steam more important than not hurting (the feelings of) your partner? Is there a way to relax from work with friends that also involve your wife or family? Or at least her husband have tried to find a way?
If I am a man who is making medium income and growing a beer belly due to staying home most of the time to take care of my kids while my beautiful wife goes out to blow off "her steam" twice a month with bunch gold-digging girlfriends and rich clients who ocasionaly do "mutual exchange", will I be at ease about it? Hell no!
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maxis
15 yrs ago
Good to hear Sage Bean that he is listening to you.
You trust him and care about him, and that is great. And it is good about him listening to your expectations and respcting your feelings, even though it is very easy to stay out another two or three hours.
As others have said, there are plenty of opportunities to stray in HK, not just WanChai. Even though there are great bars and restraunts down there, the other reputation of the place makes you feel a little uncomfortable, and that is understandable of course.
If your relationship is pretty constant, then there isn't really anything to be overly concerned about. Just the same, it is preferable for him to be home before 12 (or perhaps 1 depending upon where you live).
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Sagebean -
I think the way you and your guy have dealt with this situation is quite impressive.
Interestingly a number of people on this thread are using it to as some kind of "gender war" forum.
Sounds like you have managed to avoid this with your man and have come up with a reasonable compromise. That requires maturity and compromise and love and all the things you need for a happy marriage.
Best,
Ian
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LA Woman - I never said your opinion was not valid just because you don't have children. I am saying that you shouldn't dismiss the OP's feelings or put her down (and yes, you did put her down) by saying she's "irrational" or "hormonal" just because she's had a baby. As much as you don't like being told you don't understand this or that because you've never had children, I'm sure she didn't want to be told she's wrong for feeling the way she does or "blowing things out of proportion", just because she's had a baby.
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dkuk
15 yrs ago
perhaps sagebean, you should just trust your man, show him the love you clearly have for him, and give him the space he needs. no amount of nagging, questioning, suspicion or silence will change what he does. we all do what we need to do. show him your love and strength. and anyway, if he stops the 'wanchai til 3am thing', that isn't a guarantee of fidelity. if you love somebody, set them free. if he 'goes bad', he would have anyway. if he stays loyal, whilst enjoying a couple of nights out with the boys, thats great. no-one can force anyone to feel anything. respect him and yourself, and accept the consequences.
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