Posted by
juliette
16 yrs ago
I am very happy with my bf, everything is perfect except...i want children and he doesn't.
We are both in our late 30s, have been living together for a while, and time is running out for me.
He said he would marry me, if i want to - i am not desperate to get married, i am happy with the status quo.
The problem is he really doesn't like being around children, he thinks they are a nuisance, he loves animals (we have two dogs) but has no intention to have children, neither now nor in the future.
I don't want to break up with this great guy, we are really happy, and very compatible, but i am afraid that one day, when it's too late, i will regret not having children.
Has anybody managed to change her partner's feelings about children?
PS. Getting pregnant by accident is not an option, i would never trick him into becoming a father against his will.
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i would also like to hear from women who are happily married without children.
Is it possible to have a great family life without children when you grow older with your partner?
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selda
16 yrs ago
This is a tough one.
I am a bit older than you, and in a relationship with a younger man who also doesn't want children, which is fine by me, because at my age i would probably need to undergo expensive and painful fertility traetment if he wanted kids.
Our lives are pretty full as they are, we both work long hours, have a busy social life, do a lot of sport activities together...and enjoy each other company so much that we never felt that our lives were empty without a kid.
Of course, there was a time when i missed not having a child, a few years ago, when all my friends were getting pregnant, and once they had a child, their priorities changed and inevitably we drifted apart. Now I surround myself with friends who don't have children, and that makes it easier.
From what i was told, being childless in your thirties is probably the worst, but it gets better as you grow older, because other couples' lives revolve much less around children.
If your desire of having children grows so strong that you get depressed because of a perceived lack, of course you need to be honest with yourself and your partner. Therapy might help you. Self-therapy helped me to realise that my desire to have a child was not deep and strong enough to jeopardise my career, and give up my previous relationships. I wasn't happy with my life back then, and i thought that having a child would provide the solution. I am glad i didn't get pregnant because those relationship failed and now i would be an overworked, stressed out single mum on anti-depressants, like some friends of mine.
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selda
16 yrs ago
I would also add that having a child is neither a duty nor a biological imperative in our age. The planet is overpopulated, resources are scarce, and climate change is a reality.
If you realise in a few years time that you still want a child but you are too old to conceive, there is always adoption.
If you leave your partner now, there is no guarantee that you will
1. fall in love with somebody else in the near future
2. that this new man will be ready to have children before establishing a long relationship with you
3. that he will be fertile
4. that you will be fertile
2.
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Having a child is a huge responsibility. Both me and my husband never really especially wanted kids or love kids but we also dont resist against the idea too. But then I got pregnant by accident and even then I was not exactly elated about being pregnant etc etc. I kept thinking how I will lose my private life, personal freedom etc. But somehow motherhood changes everything, when my bb girl arrived, especially when you cradle her and look at her breastfeeding. Or when she smiles and give you that huge grin in the morning, you will feel very complete. It is a feeling I have never experienced before and I know my husband though don't especially like kids before loves our daughter very very much too.
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Chin
16 yrs ago
Of course is possible to be happily married without children. My husband and I have been married for 17 years. All together with dating we been together for 20 years. One different is during tough times we don't have a third party to comfort too. So, you have to be sure your relationship is strong. I also agree with Selda's comments.
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This is a tough one. Personally, I would find it hard to be in a long term relationship with someone who didn't share the same sense of humour, much less something as fundamental as whether or not you want children. Sounds like you really want kids tho, but I guess you should ask yourself why you want to have kids if you keep saying you're happy with the status quo? I know you don't want to regret it later, but who knows what's in the future?
If you can't change his mind, will you be happy not ever having children? Or if you do change his mind now and then he regrets it later and resents you, would it have been better to never have had children at all? Or he says he wants to have kids, because he knows that's what you want, but he becomes a cold and distant father
to those kids, is that fair to everyone? Sorry to make it all sound so bleak, I'm just being the devil's advocate.
I'm not saying this will be your partner, but I have heard of men who never thought they wanted to be a father and then their wife or gf got pregnant and when the baby came, they were just ready and stepped up and couldn't be happier. Of course, then there are the guys that ran a mile.
In any case, I think you need to sit down with your partner and really discuss it, if you haven't already. Perhaps seeing a therapist together or on your own will help too. Good luck.
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He said he would marry me, if i want to
he should marry you because he wants to not because you want to.
you should sit down with him and lay everything on the table. then re examine your relationship and your goals. being happy in a relationship is one thing not everything. both you should be at least on the same wavelength as to where you guys want the relationship to go and how to achieve it.
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this is a very very big decision for you, think very hard before going ahead in a relationship with this guy or u could end up paying the consequences, although my husband and i never discussed this issue when we were dating after we got married i wanted to have kids but he did not he kept delaying and saying not now , im not ready...etc etc...the result was that when he became ready (after pressure from his parents) my clock had already ticked...i suffered two miscarriages...and finally a 3rd attempt in a difficult pregnancy due to my age gave us a beautiful boy...my biggest regret is the delay...especially when age is a factor think carefully....although we are happy and he is a doting father....its just that i wanted more kids but i may have to settle with just one due to my age
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In April 2008, after eight years together my partner and I have split up. When we first started seeing each other children were not an issue. In fact, I had a vasectomy and children were out of the question. I’m not sure about the “biological clock” but as time slipped into the future my mate’s wish to have children surged. She is now 42 years old and looking for a partner willing to produce offspring. I am 56 years old and seeking a suitable mate. A little late in the game for both of us I’d say. We could have done each other a favor and addressed the issue early on. I have some great photo albums and memories but…
Should have seen it coming, SFMoonLight
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cd
16 yrs ago
Of course you can be happily married without children, but only if that is what you both want. Resentment will definately come into it if one of you is forced to live with a decision you're not happy with.
We have 5 children and I would gladly have had more. They make my life complete, I could not even contemplate my life without them.
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If you want children, the urge just gets stronger as you get older. It's awful for you that your otherwise perfect partner doesnt want children.
Ofcourse there are plenty of people who are happy without kids, but ofthen neither one nor the other wanted them in the first place OR couldnt have any for biological reasons.
I wanted kids, my hubby was a bit undecided and i think the main reason we have one now is because he was afraid that i would leave if we didnt have one.
Has life changed? Unimaginably so,
does my hubby adore our baby? he most certainly does,
do we think back to what it was like without a baby? Ofcourse we do.
Is life full of responsibilites and expesnses? YES!
ARe there many moments of indescribablye joy? YES!
tough one for you i'm afraid.....relationships are unfortunately often about compromise. Either he should compromise or you should. and then decide on not having any regrets. But that is ofcourse, easier said than done.
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thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts.
It's a real dilemma.
I have had several important relationship before the present one, and in retrospect i can say that none of those guys was as compatible as my current bf. So, it took me almost 20 years of trial and error to find the right guy. Now, i have the right man, except he doesn't want kids.
Do i want a child with the wrong man? The answer is no, I want a child with the man i love. If i break up with him, i might never find someone as passionate, supportive, fun to be with, responsible, considerate, intelligent, loving, mature, and last but not least very good-looking!
I feel myself drawn to children as never before, maybe because i am in a very stable relationship with a great man...too bad he doesn't feel the same way about children. He would rather get another dog, even a cat (i love cat, he is not so crazy about them), any pet i can possibly name, including snakes, but children? He thinks of them as self-centred little monsters :-(
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selda
16 yrs ago
juliette,
you said that you are very happy with your partner, then you should enjoy this relationship and find a way to channel your maternal instinct elsewhere. Do you have nieces or nephews you can spend time with? If not, you can sign up as a volunteer with Mother's Choice, go to the centre once or twice a week and help look after babies that are waiting for adoption.
This is the kind of first-hand experience that might either reinforce your desire of having a child, or put you off children altogether :-)
Stop worrying about your biological clock, i know women who had children in their mid-40s.
Life is unpredictable...who knows, maybe in a few years time your bf will change his mind, or you will. Or maybe in 5 years you still feel strongly about kids, but your relationship breaks down. At that point you can consider having a child as a single mother (not everyone's cup of tea) go to a fertility clinic in India (they accept single women) or anywhere in Europe, and you can fulfill your maternity wish.
If you break up now that your relationship is going strong, you will regret it, suitable replacements for a great guy are not that easy to find, while on the other hand, fertility clinics are always an option, though a costly one.
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Whatever you do, don't have children with a guy who doesn't want them. Even if you manage to change his mind, if he thinks they are a nuisance and serioulsy doesn't want them, he just doesn't, and you will end up regretting having them anyway.
Quite frankly, I think people in their late 30s who truly don't want children are more likely to be selfish than anyone else. If they don't want their little comfort and habits disturbed by an "annoying" child, they're unlikely to stand by you when you need them (illness, death in your family) for the same reasons.
The best and kindest thing they can do for their kids is indeed not to have them.
You need to assess extremely carefully and seriously what you REALLY want. You think you've met the right guy, well, it's never too late to meet the right dad!
A friend of mine was very happy without kids with long-time bf for years and years, they both wanted to be able to travel and live their life to the fullest without the worry of kids, and then, in her late 30s, when she never had felt any ticking clock, she surprised everyone by leaving this bf. She soon met a great guy, and she's now an extremely happy mother of 4! I was staggered, it was such a change of mind, but it just goes to showing: whatever you're happy with one day may change completely the next day, so be careful what you compromise on. In fact, her set-against children bf's just had a baby with his new partner! I think at the end of the day, and no matter how happy and in love they thought they were, they were just not right for eachother!
You seem very reasonable and considerate, what with having no intention of getting pregnant by "accident", and wanting children with the man you love, I'm sure you'll make the right decision.
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"Quite frankly, I think people in their late 30s who truly don't want children are more likely to be selfish than anyone else. If they don't want their little comfort and habits disturbed by an "annoying" child, they're unlikely to stand by you when you need them (illness, death in your family) for the same reasons."
That's an EXTREMELY judgemental statement and in my opinion completely unfounded.
Juliette, you may find another man you can love as much as this one, but as you say, it took 20 years to find this one, so it's a gamble - especially in HK. I think you should follow selda's advice and try to channel your maternal instinct elsewhere.
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was your bf born adult ?. he was also a self centered monster and probably still is
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Well, yes, i am judgmental and perhaps a little harsh, but I am basing my observations on experience.
If the reason he doesn't want children is not that he's already got 4 or 5, or had an unhappy childhood, or because of family-inherited disease that he doesn't want to pass on, or because he doesn't want to bring more kids in an already crowded and dangerous world, then what is it if not his wanting to preserve his world from being put off-balance by change?
Plus, he may very well change his mind in 10 years' time, when his gf no longer can have kids, and have them with someone else, which means his kids will have to deal with a grand-father-age dad when they're in their teens, and that his gf will have wasted her time and prime when he can still live out his life. All this at everyone else's expense and little cost to himself.
I agree with cara against the channeling your instincts eslewhere thing. It may help relieve the urge a little, but it won't compensate for your need to become a mother and the feeling of accomplishment it brings.
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I agree with cara, if your desire to have a child of your own is strong, nothing is going to change that. The feeling will only get worse as the years go by. Imagine years from now when your friends' children are growing up and eventually have children of their own, and your friends are all becoming proud grandparents. Imagine if a few years from now your relationship fails and you've left it too late to have a child of your own.
I have a friend whose long term relationship broke down, largely due to the fact that she wanted a child and her partner was against having children. By this time she had left it too late. Her partner went on to marry a younger woman and is now the father of two.
Only you can decide what is more important to you ... the guy you're in a relationship with right now and the prospect of never becomming a mother ... or giving yourself the chance to fulful that wish.
If I were you I'd have a serious discussion with your partner to let him know how strongly you feel. BUT, let him know that you respect his wishes not to become a father so that he doesn't feel like you are giving him an ultimatum. The fact of the matter is that a few years from now, if things don't work out between you, it will be too late for you to have a child, but for him time doesn't matter, and he could quite easily go on to become a father in another later relationship ... it happens quite often.
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My friend was in this exact position, and she decided that it was lucky enough that she found her partner, and she would not push the children issue. She had been alone a long time before she found him, and she decided it would be better to be with him than alone. And she felt that her chances of finding another and conceiving would be low. She also struggled with this a long time, since she knew by staying with him (getting married at 38), she would probably not have children. But she felt it was ok at the time, since while she would not have children, she would have a partner. It was her decision, and she seems happy enough (at least happier than when she was alone), but I know that she does still long for children; though it is probably too late for her now (she is now 40).
Personally, I think that his deciding for the two of them that they were not going to have kids was selfish and for her, irreversible. I think that a compromise could have been made. You should probably try this if you decide to stay with him, since it may be easier than finding another person to have a child with.
Finally, as a mother, it is the most rewarding and fulfilling experience. My husband and I had exciting lives pre-children, but we don’t think that our lives would be as complete if it did not have children. It is not just the everyday things, like sweet kisses or over the top excitement when greeting you after a long day, but the things in the future I have to look forward too – watching them grow up, etc.
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Oh and you do have to worry about your biological clock. I have many friends in their late 30s who wanted to wait to have kids, only to find that they or their partners had fertility problems, e.g. eggs were too old, uterine lining weak, partner’s sperm too slow. It is very common. It is expensive and emotionally painful to do IVF, and by late 30s or early 40s, the quality of any embryos that are produced may be low and may not be viable. There are a lot of couples doing IVF because they waited too long. And even if you conceive, carrying to term is not guaranteed as for older women; the rate of miscarriage and stillbirth is higher than for younger women. We knew over 5 of our friends (even some in their early 30s) who had miscarriages over the past year. So, if you do want to have kids, you had better act fast.
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True. But lets be realistic. She's in her late thirties. If she dumps her current b/f how realistic is it to expect to her to a) get over him quickly b) once she is over him find another great single guy who is really into her within the next few years c) reach a level of intimacy with the new guy for her to feel comfortable with having a child with him d) once she has reached this level be able to conceive a child with new guy
Once you're out of your teens/early twenties you don't just get out of a long term relationship and then fall love again immediatiely with a guy who is nuts about you.
What if she dumps him, doesn't find love again for a few years and then can't conceive? She'll have thrown away a perfectly good relationship for nothing and have endured a lot of heartbreak in the process.
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Gill2008 - so what ultimatium do you think she should give him? Have a baby with me or else I will leave you?
Not a very mature way to conduct a relationship. If taht's the decision she makes, so be it, but I don't think she is going to achieve what she wants by issuing threats.
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Oh I see, she "may" not be able to find a new guy so she should hang for dear life to a guy who doesn't share her idea of a fulfilled life?
Funny how guys tend find a woman is lucky enough to have bagged one of them in the first place and should put up with everything for fear of being alone.
I mean if "i don't want a child, either you get over it or be sorry and be alone and miserable for ever" is not an immature ultimatum, I don't know what is...
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thanks for your advice.
My bf is not a selfish man, he doesn't want children because he doesn't like them, some people simply don't, but that doesn't mean he is not supportive of the sick and the elderly. As a matter of fact he nursed his father through cancer, and spent six months in the UK just to do so, before i met him.
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I know that there are no guarantees in life, and that even if i broke up with him on this issue, i might not meet someone that is ready to have a child with me. I am now 38. I don't even know if i would be able to conceive, because i have never tried to get pregnant.
It's really tough. I have the right man, a very good career, and my life would be great if only i had a child. Now it's good, but it's not great. I should be thankful that i have a good life, but i am afraid that one day i would regret not having a child.
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I am sure the last option doesn't work out well. I firmly believe in having children. They are a source of happiness and joy. I have NEVER seen a family that grumbles about having children. Once there is that little one, trotting his/her way around the house and making noises at that tender age to let you know his/her feelings - there is no way money or furniture or a bf can buy those moments. I don't have any but the mere thought of having a kid or kids fascinates me.
My word is this - you make the choice now. If this man really loves you, he should be able to take away his ego and selfish ideas off the table and yield to your desire of having a kid. Dogs, even a hundred will never sit in for a kid. Otherwise, leave him and look for someone else who can give you this pleasure.
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cd
16 yrs ago
To Bumpydog
Agree she's not likely to go and and find a suitable 'father' for her child straightaway, it could take several years. In an ideal world a child is wanted by both parents. But that doesn't always happen. A girlfriend of mine has just never met 'the one', but by the time she reached 40 had an overwhelming urge to have a child, so has spent the last 3 years going through IVF and sperm donation. Not ideal, but for her if it meant the difference between being a mum and not it was worth it. Unfortunately for her it hasn't worked.
I think in the long term this relationship with the OP won't work, because if she doesn't get pregnant then by the time she's around 43, 44 she will have a growing resentment for her partner which will gnaw away at the relationship.
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it sounds sad for someone to cling on a relationship because of the fear that she could possibly never find a replacement or find a similar someone similar if she does let go.
would you really be happy in a "happy relationship" knowing you'll never be 100 percent happy because he doesn't share the same goals with you like having kids?
the mere fact that you have posted your q on this topic suggests otherwise.
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selda
16 yrs ago
I second what p.mason said, if it's not broken, don't fix it.
Enjoy the time you spend with him, go with the flow, live in the moment, be content with what you have. People come into your life for a reason. Dig deep into the reasons why you want children, take a sober look at it. To what extent is this desire a product of your advancing age and the future loss of fertility? So far you lived without children, was it all that bad? Now the ticking bomb doesn't allow you to make rational decisions, it forces your hand, that's why you should take a step back, and imagine that your hormones are like a loaded gun, or a ticking bomb. Relax. Think that once you reach the menopause the loaded gun and ticking bomb will disappear, and it will be just you and your partner, no more pressures to have children, from either society or your hormones.
Now it's the most difficult time of your life, you are not free. Obviously a part of you wants children, but what about that part of you who has been happy without children until now? You said you have never tried to get pregnant. Why the urgency now? It's because you see your fertility slipping away, so maybe it's not the child per se, but a mid-life crisis. If you were a man, maybe you would be chasing young women, buying a sport car or a Harley. When women go through a mid-life crisis they want a child, because it reaffirms their youth. I have seen women with grown up kids chasing the dream of a late pregnancy at 40. Maybe a therapist would have helped them see that this was an unconscious desire to prove that they are still able to walk around with a bump.
Let's stop blaming this guy, he has done anything wrong, he never promised Juliette that they will have kids, his idea of a happy family is he, Juliette and their dogs. He is not chasing other women, he is not buying a Harley, he is content with his partner and what they share.
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selda
16 yrs ago
typo, he has not done anything wrong.
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"I second what p.mason said, if it's not broken, don't fix it."
Apparently, Juliette posted the q for advise so there must be something wrong somewhere.
"Let's stop blaming this guy, he has done anything wrong, he never promised Juliette that they will have kids, his idea of a happy family is he, Juliette and their dogs"
No one is blaming anyone. Just everyone saying that the relationship is not an exact perfect match because they have different goals and wants in a relationship.
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selda
16 yrs ago
if it can help, do what i did when i reached your point of near break. Pick up a pen and on a sheet of paper write down all the pros and cons of having a child at the age of 40 (if all goes well with another man, you still will not have child before you reach 40)
Potential health risks of a late pregnancy to both mother and child, the prospect of supporting a child financially till you are 65, and that means you might have very little savings left for your old age, the idea that if you are ill (and when you reach 50 you might have health problems of your own) your child will still need a lot of your energy, energy you might no longer have.
Is it fair to the child to have old parents?
On the other side of the sheet list all the stuff you and your partner can do without children.
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the mums are getting awfully emotional about this. Why can't you undersatnd that not everyone - men or women - feels the same way about kids as you do?
That doesn't make us selfish or bad people - just different.
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but selda makes some good points. Is OP feeling the urge to have kids because she really wants them or because the clock is ticking and she feels she may regret it later if she doesn't have them?
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selda
16 yrs ago
Maybe i belong to another generation...i grew up in a time and place where we never thought that a woman needed a child to be complete, and fulfilled. We thought that women could do whatever they wanted, and were free to choose their destiny, be it settle down and have children or write books, sail solo around the world, or run their business. Then in the 90s there was a big conservative backlash and we were told that unless a woman has a child, she is not complete.
I think this is brainwashing, and it's very subtle....the marketeers want women to have children because that makes them eager consumers, and creates many more consumers.
I believe that women (and men) should follow their natural inclinations, some women and men find contentment in having children, some don't. There are some terrific mothers and there are also some terrible mothers, which shows that not every woman is suited for the mother role.
Knowing yourself and what you really want is key to happiness, following the diktats of our consumer society, where children have become must-have accessories, is not a very wise course of action.
That's what i want to tell a 38 y/o woman who has never felt the need to have a child before (her words, she never tried to get pregnant) but is now thinking what if she regrets the choice later.
BTW, to those who said that a woman is not complete without a child....i don't think that having a child because you don't feel complete and fulfilled is a good idea. I think it's very selfish, because you use the child to fill the emptiness you experience in your life.
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selda
16 yrs ago
I remember when a woman in my country won the Nobel prize at the age of 70, a journalist asked her "Do you regret sacrificing your life to pursue your scientific research?", this old lady looked at her with a big smile, and with her infinite wisdom said, "Young lady, my research is my life, what do you mean by sacrificing it, I didn't die for the sake of science", the young journalist looked a bit taken aback and said "Well, you never got married and never had children, do you regret that choice?", the Nobel prize winner started shaking her white mane and said "Have you asked the same question to my male colleagues, many of whom never got married and never had children?"
It was interesting to see that for a 70 y/o woman choosing to become a scientist was a conquest, of which she was proud, she could have followed the prescribed path when she was a young woman living in the 50s, but had the strength to defy conventions and follow her real aspirations, while for the 30 y/o journalist it was a sacrifice.
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But she didn't answer the question....
Also, concerning what you said before, you don't have a children because you don't feel complete, but having a child makes you feel complete. It's different.
It's quite easy to see here who has children, and who has not. Because the ones who have children know how great it is, and how life is different. A lot of things become very clear, and priorities are changing, for the best.
I also know some people who decided not to have any, travelling a lot, working a lot... then when they retired, they had plenty of time to regret. Nobody coming to have lunch, no children around for Xmas, feeling useless...
If Juliette thinks she might regret it later, then she will.
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selda
16 yrs ago
So, would you call Rita Levi Montalcini, who devoted herself to studying cell biology, and made discoveries that have a major impact on cancer research and treatment, a selfish person?
Or should we call Mother Theresa selfish for choosing to forgo biological reproduction and instead become a mother to thousands of sick and destitute people in India?
I know a lot of content, accomplished women who bring joy to whoever they meet, be it kids or the elderly. Describing them as selfish for not adding more human beings to this saturated planet is rather silly.
On the other hand, women who choose to have children cannot imagine not having them, and i understand them.
Now we have phones and computers, can you imagine not having them? Yet people used to live without them, and their life was no less enjoyable than ours.
Let's not judge others based on our very limited experience of life. Juliette has to find the answer within herself, some women are content without children, others cannot imagine life without them. It's all a matter of perspective, and natural inclination.
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selda
16 yrs ago
"Nobody coming to have lunch, no children around for Xmas, feeling useless..."
Philvirg,
have you ever thought that people who don't have children still have families? Nephews, nieces, brothers, sisters, elderly parents ...and those who are less family inclined, would rather have lunch with like-minded friends, and maybe spend their Xmas in a less conventional way? As to feeling useless, that is the kind of feeling that comes with depression, and marriage and children are no protection against it. If you read the statistics women without children are just as prone to depression as those with children....and in the first year after delivery, mothers are the most depressed women of all...and some will never get out of that black hole. Sad but true. I can send you the link to these statistics if you are interested.
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Hopefully the parents of these women didn't think like that... because they wouldn't have been there !
Every great woman, or man have parents. And some of our children (nor mine, but generally speaking) will become great people, finding treatments, becoming president, or just being a doctor, or a voluntary in Africa... the world just can't go on without children !
Some will think having children is selfish, because of the "saturated planet" and living conditions, and some will think not having children is selfish, because some of us just want to enjoy life. No on is true or wrong.
But it's Juliette's life, and she has only one.
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Just to answer your previous post, I was talking about this specific couple... who by the way had no siblings and no more parents (they were in their 70's). They had a full life, and were happy with their situation. She is now dead as she had cancer. He is definitively alone, and not well enough to help someone else.
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selda
16 yrs ago
Maybe they couldn't have children. Infertility has always existed, now infertility rates are going up really fast...it's nature's way of showing us that because we live longer, there are just too many people on this planet as a result, therefore less children are needed for the reproduction of humankind.
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selda
16 yrs ago
my message was in reply to philvirg.
yonon11 should read the thread before posting.
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Maybe they were, I don't know, like Rita Levi Montalcini.... at the end, the question is not to know if women should have children or not, but Juliette's question was to know if some couples could live happy without children.
I can answer as I have children, but from the couples I know who are living without children, young or older, they all have regrets.... some even had to go through this decision like if they had lost someone.
Concerning the demographic situation, it is proved that it will go on for a few years (till 2050) and then go down, because of the lack of women in some of the biggest countries.
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In fact, no, sorry ;) the question is about changing the partner's feelings.... well, yes it's possible, as my husband didn't want children when we met. I just stopped talking about it and one day he came back talking about it. I had my first baby at 37 yo... But I have no idea why he changed his mind, sorry !
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cd
16 yrs ago
Selda you're missing the point. Nobody is saying its selfish to want children, and nobody is saying that those you don't want children are selfish. The whole point of this thread is that the OP wants a child and her BF doesn't. Generally what people are saying is that long term the realtionship will fail due to the fact either one of them will have to make a huge compromise, that in a few years will lead to resentment.
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selda
16 yrs ago
Gill2008, do you know how many people inhabited this planet 100 years ago and how many do now? It's not as you put it, "1 come 1 go", otherwise we wouldn't be dealing with the problem of overpopulation.
I never said that children are a burden, i simply replied to Juliette's question " I would also like to hear from women who are happily married without children.
Is it possible to have a great family life without children when you grow older with your partner?"
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Gill, what do you mean by telling Aijin that global warming should begin with her?
I am geniunely curious.
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I admire your attitude, Gill! Not selfish AT ALL!
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selda
16 yrs ago
As of November 2008, the world's population is estimated to be about 6.7 billion (6,700,000,000). In line with population projections, this figure continues to grow at rates that were unprecedented before the 20th century.
In 1900 the world population was 1.65 billion.
Whatever Juliette decides to do, those who claim that Juliette's bf is selfish for not wanting children, should take a look at these figures. I think his choice is quite rational and responsible. He should be thanked for it.
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I cant believe people are pulling gloabl warming into this. Why dont the posters consume less or do something else concrete to save the environment.
yes muttles: are you for real? Poor woman...(whoever it is that must put up with your attitudes)
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I have a step daughter only and she is 19.
Most of my friends from school have kids and also have a lot more grey hair than me. No kidding.
I would have liked to have kids, but it just didn't work out that way.
I am now nearly 50 and my new wife is also in her 40s. I would still like kids, but she doesn't. And to be honest, at our age it would be more difficult than if we were younger. We don't have as much energy as before and I would be in my 70s by the time they get out of university.
Pragmatism won.
Many couples can't have kids (I think it is 1 in 7) and most live a full and happy life. They also have less stress and more holidays. And are generally more financially secure.
Not wanting babies and not having them are two different things.
Some couples are not overjyed when the stork is on the way. But thier lives change when the baby arrives. Nobody can really prepare for the upheaval but most are overjoyed and welcome the challenges of parenthood when they are presented.
I agree with what has been said above. This is a biggy, and would be hard to compromise on. But not having kids is also an OK choice, if you want to take it.
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I had a heart to heart with my bf, and asked him again why he doesn't want children.
He said that he is happy with being in a committed relationship with me, is grateful he found his soulmate, but cannot see himself as a father, this is a role he never aspired to, and he doesn't want the responsibility, he feels happy and free, he would like to take a career break in the not so distant future and study. He is interested in Buddhism and would like to do a PhD in religious studies.
He also mentioned the state of the planet, the suffering millions and wonders why we should have a child when we cannot alleviate the pain of those who are already on the Earth. He loves animals, he would love to move to the countryside when we are older and open a sanctuary for abandoned dogs. He just doesn't feel the same love for children, I think he doesn't like spoilt kids, the ones he sees around us in HK, with maids carrying their school bags, and more toys they can play with, though he can be moved to tears at the sight of a child begging in the street, as i saw him do that in Cambodia and the Philippines.
He is a sensitive man, maybe it's his sensitivity and strong sense of responsibility that makes him decide against having children of his own. I know that i could convince him if i wanted to adopt, i could play the abandoned child card, i don't think he could resist that argument, but having a child of his own is out of question.
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LGMV,
of course he is heterosexual...what makes you think otherwise??
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and he doesn't intend to become a monk either. He likes sex too much to enter a monastery :-)
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KAT8
16 yrs ago
Hollyhock, who are these mysterious "they" in the comment you have written above ( But they often say that bringing a child into this world is something so precious, that you really cant compare that with adoption).
Let me tell you from first hand as a mother of an adopted son and a biological daughter that "they" are utterly wrong. Both my children are precious and we love them equally. There is no difference between how we feel for our son and our daughter.
Juliette, only you can find the answer to your dilemma. Apart from not giving birth and not having the same DNA, an adopted child will require the same love and care as a biological child. If your boyfriend is against having his own child, I don't think he would want to adopt, even if you play abandoned child card etc. that in my opionion is not a reason to adopt a child.
Anyway good luck to you.
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Seems like your bf has plenty of projects... and you Juliette, what do you want, for yourselves ?
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I think he is afraid and probably selfish to give up his comfortable life and rountine, and having children seriously disrupt that. However having said that having a baby also gives you incredible joy, it's different from those you get when you get a promotion, strike lottery or get to eat your fav food. It is a feeling deep in the chest, and you only will be experienced that when you have a child of your own. I once thought the line children are miracle was corny, but now that I brought my baby to the world, I realized how true, she has transformed from that tiny cell inside me to this beautiful baby ( not to mention she starts to look more and more like me everyday) You can never get this from an adopted child.
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elly4475 well it's grand you feel so enthralled with motherhood and i am sure you will make a good mother
But lets hope your offspring don't put you in a nursing home when you are old because you are too much bother and are spending the inheritence that they are waiting not so patiently for -maybe then you will have a realistic view of an alternative outcome for parenthood.
a trite comment sorry
as was yours that those of us who dislike rug-rats and have no intention of having them are somehow selfish
each to his own after all
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Hmmmm....clearly an emotive subject. Interestingly enough, over the last year, top of the hit parade so far (as regards replies to threads) is Boyfriend Slept with Prostitute - 200 messages in 132 days. So far, Juliette's thread has generated 119 in only three days. This one will run and run.....By the way - I agree entirely with p.mason. This is how men think. Seems like the bf is feeling very happy in his in his comfy boat and he doesn't want it rocked. And he certainly doesn't want to be rocking any cradle. Look elsewhere, Juliette.
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Spot on fox- mulder this guy does not want kids and you will never convince him otherwise he is just too damn happy and comfortable
to the OP find someone who wants kids (and let him free to find a partner that does not )
i was in same boat and my exwife is now happily remarried with a couple of lovely kids(and still keeps in touch with me) and i have found a woman who doesnt want kids and we have 5 years great relationship
such a fundamental mismatch is going to end bitterly otherwise you dont split
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cd
16 yrs ago
To Yep,
she does have a 3rd option. If she really wants a child then she can go it alone. Not ideal, but better for the child to have 1 parent that truly loves them, than a father that doesn't.
re adoption- as an adopted child many years ago, the love I felt for my adoptive parents is the same as you all have for your parents, if not more as I was especially chosen out of all the kids in the home, which made me feel more loved and wanted. So yes Juliette I think you should consider adoption, but again as a single mum, I don't think your BF will go for that either.
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I am in the similar situation - I am 34 yo, I want children, he doesn't.
I want to know which one really matters to me deep down my heart, baby or him?
So I proposed a half-year seperation with him, in order to know what i really want in life..... it sounds silly, isn't it? But i feel right, as I hate being stuck in the middle.
We woman think too much, better DO something, and time will tell eventually.
I believe in fate, if in this six months, he found someone else, I wouldn't think he is right for me therefore no regrets.... If in this six months, I find someone i love and also want children, i will feel gradeful for the decision i made today..... If in this six months, I realize I want him more than babies, then i will come back to him happily.... if in this six months, nothing changed, i still want children, he still doesn't, i still don't meet someone else.....??
Well, too much thinking and too far away, let see by then.....maybe at that time there will be a world war becasue of this economic crisis. who knows?
Girls, just be brave to look for what you want, although you might suffer a bit. Life is not perfect. :-)
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Hi Juliette, one thing I would clarify if I were you. Does he hate children or is it just the responsibility he is not ready for? Because if he really hates children, biological, adopted, or any form of a "little person" is going to be very unfortunate for the little one. It does not make him a bad person as there are people like that and it is a part of them. But for you, if this is the case, you need to move on as I think whether the motivation is your biological clock or having a family with your perfect partner, the urge of having a child in a woman is undeniable. If you deny it you will always have that big hole and you sure do know what it is about. My big sister did that and it is painful to see her. I do understand that it is much much easier said than done so give yourself a timeframe. Go through a pre-pregnancy test so that you know everything is OK and then freeze your eggs!!!
If your BF is just not ready for a responsibility, there is hope that he will change his mind and actually, I think that fact that he can say he is not ready, means that he is taking the making his own family seriously and once he is ready, he will be so ready and dedicated. This happened to my now husband, then BF. Back then, he wanted to be the one to be doing the projectiles. How he changed, with time, his life style changed too, as nothing goes expectedly. The biggest could have been, his projectile friends starting having babies and they showed him, it is more rewarding than sacrifice. We will have our first baby in a week and guess who is the most excited. He even got her her first little black dress with a red purse( a projection of his desire) and he cannot stop talking about the baby.
Please take time to think of an decision you will not regret.
And BTW, it is Christmas!! Let this problem aside for a moment and enjoy your Christmas together!!
Merry Christmas and best wishes for a wonderful New Year!!
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selda
16 yrs ago
Xshoequeen,
Egg freezing costs more than IVF and the chances of success are very slim.
I think that if Juliette really wants a child more than being in this relationship (and from her words i doubt she is ready to breakup with her bf over this issue) the most realistic option is sperm donation and IUI in a clinic abroad. Being a single parent is not easy. Yet it might be easier than finding man who wants to have children asap. I have a friend who is 40, single and desperate to have kids... her dating experience so far has been a disaster. Most men run a mile when they hear a woman talk about having children on their second date!
On the other hand if she stays with her bf, she should forget about the biological clock, enjoy her life with him and if he changes his mind in a few years time, when she can no longer have kids, they can either adopt, or choose egg donation. Women can have children at any age, though the child will be genetically related only to him. But as mothers of adopted children know, maternal love has nothing to do with genetics.
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Hi Juliette,
I had my first and only child after 6 yrs of marriage. Till then we used to party everynight and had lot of fun and "men usually are" whenever I brought the topic of our own child with my husband he was never ready ( and I realised he never will be until and unless he comes to face with one). My problem with not having a child of own was - even after 5 years of marraige I never felt I have a family at home. And offcouse the commitment issue is also very narrow when a child is not involved. So the bottom line is YOU DONT MAKE A FAMILY WITHOUT A CHILD because there is no erious responsibility involved. I used to stay beck in office for any and every party...there was always an excuse. So was the same on my husbands front. And even after such hectic social life atleast I felt very empty and lonely and jealous whenever in a family gathering.
Now I have lot of responsibilities and probably party once a month or we generally invite other families and friends home so that my son can enjoy too. But at the end of the day I feel a lot better. Even my husband had changed from a cool parting dude to a better family person (trust me even after 4-5months after my son was born my husband was completely lost). Now my son is 2 and he adores him. He tries coming home early, makes a priority that he doesn't travel during some important holidays and birthdays. Infact I started getting the feel of marraige and family only after my son was born. Infact our respective partents are also much happier and bond with us better now.
Another important fact is .....It really doesnt matter the baby is your own or adopted because once you hold a tiny bundle of joy in your arms it is all yours. For a women delivering a baby is just a moments feeling after that only the love between the child and mother matters.
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There is some truth in the rumour that men are simple creatures and that, for them to be happy, all they need is good food, good sex and no nagging. But,most of all, freedom. And, of course, no responsibility. So, where a man is happy in his comfortable boat cuddling up with a nice girl he probably sees no reason to change things. He is as happy as Larry just to drift on. He is content with things as they are. Mention to him buying a boat together will send alarm signals (which sound awfully like "Commitment, Commitment, Commitment!" - imagine those horrible fire sirens). Even talking in terms of where to go on holiday in six months' time might well make him feel distinctly uncomfortable. His idea of the "distant future" is about one month away. When a woman says: "I think we need to talk", he probably sees no reason at all to talk. In fact, he will see every reason not to talk. (“What is there to talk about? Aren't we happy enough?”) No -- for many men, "needing to talk" spells trouble. It smells of commitment. He knows that it is going to be one of those "where are we going?" discussions. Of course, he probably hasn't a clue where it is going -- his boat doesn't even have a rudder, and he is not in too much of a hurry to find out, either. But being happy and content does not mean that he is madly in love with his girl. Sure, he is obviously "happy enough", but it doesn't mean that he will, any time soon, go rushing out to buy an engagement ring. There will come a time, sooner or later, (and perfectly understandably) when his girl gets fed up of his inertia and feels she has to bring things to a head. Usually, this amounts to a "give me some measure of commitment or I am out of here". At which point he has to think long and hard (actually, probably not, to be truthful -- otherwise he would have been proactive in the first place). Without the measure of commitment the girl is seeking, more likely than not, she will bring the relationship to an end. He has had a rather nice trip in his comfy boat but he has complete freedom to get out and find another one. The thing is, if his girl had not brought things to a head, he would probably have just carried on indefinitely, safe in the knowledge that his life is really rather nice and that, if he has to bail out, he has complete freedom to do so at any time with no repercussions. This, I believe, is where Juliet's boyfriend is. I suspect that there will be many women reading this who feel themselves in the same position -- just drifting along with no idea of their man's level of commitment. I suppose that the moral of all this is that a girl has to take the bull by the horns sooner rather than later -- especially if she is childless and the clock is ticking.
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cd
16 yrs ago
To hollyhocks 2
as an adopted baby, god knows where I'd be now if my parents had thought like you.
And yes adoption could definately fulfill her needs.
But that is still all beside the point.
The point being she wants a family, he doesn't. It will not work in the long run due to the resentment from which ever party has to make the compromise.
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I have two married girlfriends who are older--both in their 50s--and childless. And yes the sole reason for their not having children is that their husbands didn't want any. I wouldn't describe either marriage as in good shape (one husband cheats openly and the other puts her down in public all the time) and I know they both regret not having kids profoundly.
I believe when a man truly loves a woman and ISN'T selfish, he will be understanding enough to give it a go. Many men have and have all ended up adoring their children despite the initial objection.
BTW, a guy friend's girlfriend went ahead to have a child against his will, they broke up later--not over the child issue--and he's one of the most loving dads I have seen. The only reason he still lives in this region is to be near his son so he can make the monthly trip flying 8 hours to see him.
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Maybe it's also a problem of having a baby with one person specifically... my sister in law has been married with a guy who didn't want children. She thought he would change his mind and married him. They got divorced. She met another guy and had a son. And you know what ? he met another woman, who already had 2 children from a previous marriage, and they had 2 more together !
Hopefully they divorced soon enough....
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hi there, I`m wondering what happened now. it`s pretty obvious that you and you boyfriend don`t share the common goal which is a big one, and in the long run it`s not gonna work out, as time goes by you will feel a growing resentment towards him which will tear you guys apart, i had a similar situation before and we ended up spliting up, it hurts, but we both made our choice and had to move on. You have to be really clear what you want and thenmake your choice.
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and i also wouldn`t say your boyfriend is selfish or not responsible, there is no judgement... people are different and they could want different things in life, it only means you and he are not properly matched in some ways which doesn`t necessarily mean he is the bad guy. You could be very much in love, connected, in a loving and caring relationship, he is kind of guy you dream about, well, apart from he doesn`t want to have a baby with you. I have been there. He already had kids from his previous relationship and doesn`t want any more which i can understand and it wasn`t the issue in the beginning of our relationship, but as time goes by i started feeling the needs, but since i loved him so much i forced myself to make that compromise, but later on i resent it which slowly bring us apart, eventually i realize this is not something you can compromise to yourself, it`s huge, and i can`t force him to make that compromise to have kids, it`s the same. Now with some distance, i can see it clearly that we just want different things in life, so we had to take seperate path which is fine. Anyways, i wish you all the best.
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ODS
16 yrs ago
This is a good thread. I think many women are also having this problem nowadays ... if financial allow, I want children too. but Its also hard for women as we don't have too much time (before your body is too old to have baby). You can't just ask the guy if he wants kids at the first date, it would scare him away (even marriage scared the men away ..) but after few years time with him and finally realized he doesn't want kids ... and eventually you might actually broke up with him because of that reason, you would be 'wasting' a few more years in your life, while youth is limited.
and to compromise is not easy either. You say you compromised, but in your mind you still want baby, especially seeing friends having cute babies smiling running around, growing up, going to school ... you will just want it so bad.
Sorry I can't give any comment on this ... but thanks for starting this thread.
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A little update.
I think that my bf will never change his mind, having children with him is not in the cards.
But i feel less desperate to have children now, i spoke with a fertility specialist, who said there is still time, because my FSH level is still very low. One of his patients had her first child at 45.
As someone suggested, i can wait and enjoy my current relationship. If in 2 or 3 years time i still want a child, i might consider a sperm donor. Probably easier than falling in love with another man.
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A little update.
I think that my bf will never change his mind, having children with him is not in the cards.
But i feel less desperate to have children now, i spoke with a fertility specialist, who said there is still time, because my FSH level is still very low. One of his patients had her first child at 45.
As someone suggested, i can wait and enjoy my current relationship. If in 2 or 3 years time i still want a child, i might consider a sperm donor. Probably easier than falling in love with another man.
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'He said he would marry me, if i want to - i am not desperate to get married, i am happy with the status quo.'
Something is amiss. He offered you the choice to marry him - which you are not bothered about yet failed to offer you the choice of realising your heart's greatest desire - of becoming a mother. Who is under control? Juliette - you are fast giving and compromising too much for the sake of 'love"?? Really - is this true love? or are you deluding yourself there is love? Making you happy should be his ultimate aim. Yet you are giving in - to make him happy.
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hi juliette, glad to hear from you again. well, if in 2 or 3 years you want to use a spern donor, is it an option for him? More or less he is still gonna be the "father". But seems you have made your choice for now, then live you love with him to its fullest. Be in the moment and enjoy, good luck!
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Parting of ways can be the end of a poor choice and a new beginning for a wiser choice of mate. No doubt the couple who divorced will each find happiness in relationships that meet their expectations. Mistakes happen, sometimes wrong choices are made. Juliette - you are not even married to the guy! Find another man who will love to have a family and make you happy.
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