salvaging this relationship

I am almost 39 now, from a chinese family in Singapore. She is, from mainland, is now a bit cross 30.


We had a long distance relationship for almost 1.5 years now. With me talking to her daily on the phone (skype and calls), and seeing her on the weekends.


i did help her out a bit financially for her Masters Degree program. We liked each other much and I hoped that it is not because her felt obligated to me lending her the $ for the studies. She aspire to be a CPA or similar with Big 4 experience, outside china (if possible).


The problem arose now is that she wants to have kids and I firmly do not want them. To me, kids are a liablity and responsibility. I feel that kids will clamps down on my freedom, lifestyle, adds to the costs & headace. I would not want to have to support the child all the way till they are 25-30 yrs old. Baby bills, noise, sleepless nights,medical, tutition, school, after school classes etc etc are really a scary figures and burden.


By then I am into my late 60s and would have retirement bills of my own to take care of. The thing that "kids will take care of you when you are old" I do not believe. She said that it is up to family up bringing that results in the future. Thats likely old school now and after spending so much, there is no gurantees of them looking after you.


Since the passing of my dad, 76 yrs old Mom has been hinting (or pressing) me to start a family while she still "have eyes to see". I had been taking care of them for the past 17 years. Now faces mortage of my own in SGP and needs to recharge my bank accounts for that rainly day (that I may lose the job).


Over the past weeks, the mention of that "little one" or "our kids" when we are married, or reference to that young nephew of hers (whom his brother & wife had taken a handsoff role to look after for some unknow reason). We had a big arguement on this.


Both of us takes a stand, she wants, I don't. She did not understand why such a small topic can erupt into a major issue. I too felt that, like her & my mom, it is all about "I want", "me..me...me...me" - becoz others are having it. She even said that if it is about $, then she will work 2 jobs to pay off the bills so that she could excerise her right to be a mother.


I knew of many married couples, here & elsewhere, who are not having kids. They just had each other (plus pets), and I think they are happy to be. Over time, I had heard of friends with teenage kids and are not able to control them. Internet games, behaviours, lack of interest in family activities etc etc. I think at work, i am paid to face headace and sh*t. Here I had to face my own music ?


A widowed elderly relative had 7 children. In turn a few of them had 1-2 kids themselves and the old lady was saying that in her time, she can manage 7. Whats with her kids (my uncles & aunty) not wanting any or just having 1-2 !


I can't comment on the economics of yester years perhaps the thinking at that time is more the merrier and now it is not necessary the case.


To me, as it is not a case of "a kid in the womb and I don't want it". It is that since it is not started, then don't. Her point is, if you don't want to have your own kids then we can adopt or get his brother to have another kid and we take care of it as our own. (OMG, what was she thinking). I was about the burb, "no need, the Szechuan earthquake last year produces plenty of such opportunies".


Bottom line is. I loved her and liked her very much. She gets along well with mom and thats a plus point. But the issue about kids making me wanting to step out of this relationship. Better now and agree on than to repeat the issue and arguements after marrage. Mom even suggest an ultimate solution, by surgery for me, to avoid this issue all together.


It is bordering me much.


Please help me with some advice....


Lost.


Jimmy

Some nights, i do blame myself for all these. I am in the field of product development and had gone thru great planning and details with hours & hours of presentation, arguement & debates for my work.


Yet something related to my lifelong partner, I had not clearly done so.


I do not want to hurt her and give her false hoped that I will change to her view and accept having a kid someday.


My opinions of kids are not just from some read up of bias reports. It was from my own observations over the years : 1st hand account, those shoulder-to-cry-on sessions with friends, those street scene.


Many career & financially sucessful friends are also not in this kiddie game. There has to be a reason - just that I dare not ask. Or that i am tend to stick closer to those who aren't family man & woman, as they are easier found in social gatherings / outings / tour groups than those with.


Honestly, i don't really want to let her go. I loved & liked her very much.

But i that this the only choice to avoid hurting both parties, then i will have to do it.


Will take an opportunity to sit down with her to talk this over. Better now and later and regert it.


Do anyone have been in similar shoes before ?

I would like to thank everyone for their views and comments.


Knowing that i don't like it earlier, is not going to change my view much later.


Why start something this unsure, when you have to discipline and power to prevent it from happening ? It is not as if she now carries a baby that I am forcing her otherwise.


Sure, my home base has safe harbour for kids and family. That doesn't mean that I should go and join the crowd isn't it ? Afterall, if you have friends who cheat on their spouse doesn't mean that you should also do it.


"you were a liability, headache, responsibilities to your parents as well? a mistake they committed? Did they never nourish you with love care and support? Did they not made you a grown up with a good career foundation?""


Oh yes. I am. Always, whenever i did something wrong and had been caned / scolded/ punished. Know that my folks aren't well off blue-collar, I had to do night classes after work for over 13 years to make it thru my education from A-levels to my MBA, which subsequently lands me a posting to HK/China. Imagine that if my folks were asked to support me thru my full time university of 4 years. Perhaps selling the apartment and taking on 2nd jobs? Again, with the blind hoped that they will be repaid...or be rewarded.


Older folks are now telling their kids that should they start a family, they (old folks) are not to be treated as the baby sitters. Look at how many parents dump the responsibilities of taking care of the kids to their domestic help. In my frequent travels in & out of Singapore & HK airport, I do see kids hugging and crying after their DH. Opps, too far, how about in the HK MTR in normal working hours. It is the jie jie who is handling the kids. Why have them (kids) and then sub contract the care to someone else ? The parents , both needs to work for a living and then spend the $$$ to take care of the kids ? I really don't understand.


Perhaps you are fortunate to be here on better terms than the locals (pay scale, benefits, allowances and perhaps that your wife need not work here to take care of the little ones). Excuse me, as I am only guessing here.


Please someone explain to me, if economical reasons is not valid for not having kids, then I would say that it is an inverse relationship. The richer you are the less tendency to have kids ? Well, i did a quick google and found this. There are plenty abound of couples co-habiting, or DINKS.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate


Perhaps I would not have been so bold and daring to suggest this topic had I been lesser educated and/or have lesser income. Ok, statistic can lie (OT for this topic) or that those HK men married and stayed in China as not part of this wiki statistics ? So they therefore are "without close family is not an enticing prospect."


My mom's reaction perhaps is exterme and I was hurted by that. As often that I blamed her for having me as a boy that I had to suffer 2.5 years as a conscript army boy.


I beg to be enlightened.


Naive Jimmy

Ah that 2.5 years of service ? I had a miserable time in there at that time, had I been a girl, i don't have to served and will be served (by the boys who could be after me).


Make mom happy ? For that I will have to suffer for the next 30 years ? Not win-win. No count


Offer my gf, me. There are plenty to see and do in this world. Yes, procreate is one of those possibility but not on my list.


China has plenty of sites to visit. Would you say you have travelled across most of your own home country, let alone your host country.


She wants to get her accountant's licence, that requires world experiences with Big Four. Anyone who had gone thru this stage will know those hours involved. Then what, get a DH and help the kid over to her ? OMG, I am not buying an investment property here which can generate passive income (more of massive headace likely). Nor am I buying a dog.

Hi Snoopy. Interesting post. I'm in my early 20s and facing the same pressures from my family. Ironically, my older brother and I don't really want to have kids at this point nor do we want to get married.


First of all, in my brother's case, he is open to having kids in the future. I, however, am not. And this is by no means against anyone who chooses to have kids.


My reasons are the same as yours. Some may say it is selfish but for the most part I enjoy my freedom and yes, I worry a lot about financial stability in these hard economic times. I am very much career oriented and I don't have the time to be a parent. Or, if I did become one incidentally, I may not be a fit parent because I would be working most of the time and I am not the stay at home type of person.


Both my parents ask me when I may consider to settle down, being their only daughter. Again, I am in my early 20s and I know where I stand. Considering you're much older and wiser, I don't think it's a matter of "knowing what you want" by now because you're already at a point in your life where you already have figured out just what it is.


Unfortunately, with your current relationship, your girlfriend does not share the same views. Some find having kids fulfilling while others don't need/ want to have kids to live a full life. (no offense to anyone, pls.) I am more of the latter, and so is my partner for 5 years who shares the same views as I.


I think kids are not something that can be "negotiated" with. You've made some very strong arguments on your opinions with your post and I think this matter cannot be negotiated with.


If you choose to stay together, she would either have to put up with not having kids (which could make her unhappy and manifest itself into something else and cause problems) or you could have kids just as she wants and then, well, who knows, maybe you'll be happy, maybe you'll stick to your personal views that you've always had.


My opinion is, move on with someone else who shares the same life's principles as you do.


I don't believe there is anything wrong in having kids (else I wouldnt be here) bt at the same time, there isnt anything wrong with NOT wanting to have kids.


P.S. By the way, even if my partner and I don't have kids, we have 3 labrador retrievers who are as close to us as a child could ever be AND we're very happy.

My Hong Kong - Yes, you are right. Throw the stats and reasoning were more like a professional habit and a "its a fact" kinda of approach. I shouldn't be doing that.


Yes, I did brought it up to her. To hear her cry over the phone breaks my heart. At midnight, I wanted to drop everything and head to see her.


Nope, we are not thinking of going our separate ways, as yet, but I would like to raise this matter to her.


Not as an escape clause but if having a kid is SO IMPORTANT to her and her life-goal then I shouldn't be in the way. Yes, she sometimes said that she could have taken other choice instead of me. Well, i could have stayed single and enjoy the party lifestyle in HK & China too. I will definately sit down with her once more to discuss this. Better now then a messy standoff, divorce or something worse (all of which I am only guessing). She has family in rural china where kids are a must , the more the better.


Likewise, I do expect her to be tolerent and even participate in my lust for travel, visiting new sights & task (excl having kids), etc. She would remember how we met in Shanghai 2 years ago.


6strings - When I previous relationship ended years ago, I told myself - ENOUGH ! Self-fish sponge woman are everywhere and I don't have to put up with this. Whats the deal about getting married and family and kids. I would get a dog instead. they are ...( i can make a long list) but instead settled on a stuff SnOOpy instead. My frequent travel would not allow me to take care of this little one. Yes, this option is still open. It is also a commitment abeit a different kid. My gf often bark back at me staying that the doggie will not take care of me when I am old, nor make me breakfast when i am sick etc etc. Hahahah. I didn't know that doggie can do that, hence the expectation isn't there as well.


Flashback - thanks for the encourging words. Kids could be a positive goal in one's daily life, after marriage. Someday, I may look back and, may or may not, regert this direction of mine. But then maybe not even taking it as an issue afterall.


Only time will tell.


More opinions & discussions are welcomed here.


Wished you all a good (but wet) weekend.

Dogs are as much of a "bind" as kids. More so in a lot of respects because at least you can take kids on holiday with you.