Marriage without SEX

Posted by samtaylor 16 yrs ago

Hi ,

This is a serious discussion and I am looking for some perspective especially female one. We are Indian, both working good busy respectable jobs, two lovely children and have been married(arranged) for 8 years and in HK for 15 years. Financially comfortable, socially well placed.In short ideal life except my wife almost always since we married AVOIDS sex. Every night she has an excuse that she is tired, is too late etc. etc. I have been understanding and patient all these years but now losing it. our average used to be twice a month after my insistence but now I am getting fed up after begging literally of sexual favours and do not insist any more. So we have not had any sex for 5 months and she is OK with that. I have been patient , kind, generous and all that but have no clue what is happening, is it a medical, cultural or psychological cause. She is happy and content looking after children and berates me for always wanting sex...I do not think I am being unreasonable. In short it is a classic MARS vS VENUS conflict where we both want to be loved but she sees affirmation of that in wining, dining , sweet talk, gifts etc. and I need affirmation in physical intimacy and well sex. I am healthy esp. sexually so no issues there. Also when we have sex she wants to get it done and over with the real part but enjoys foreplay, also she says she gets tired easily and is rarely keen and enthusiastic participant. Coupled with this is the fact that with 2 children we do get very busy and tired by the time they sleep and it is usually late by the time we hit the bed.I do not want to portray very negative picture as I love her but I feel we deserve better and looking for answers as I recognize the dangerous signs of losing interest in each other.

cookie09 16 yrs ago

two comments:

- weight has a direct influence on the sex drive. maybe some sports, losing weight could ignite a more active life?

- did you talk about it? did you tell her your needs and discuss why she is content not doing it? if yes, why not open up the relationship? sex seems not important to her, so maybe she would agree for you satisfy your physical desire elsewhere (of course safely, etc.)

woods99 16 yrs ago

Some women just do not enjoy sexual intercourse - there can be medical reasons for this, some women find penetration painful.

The fact that you believe that your wife enjoys foreplay is encouraging for the future of your relationship.

You should see a sex therapist, if there is such a person in Hong Kong, or a marriage counsellor. Otherwise ask your wife to talk about this with her doctor, who might look for medical reasons that she does not enjoy sexual intercourse.

If not, maybe think about other ways of enjoying sexual intimacy with your wife - sexual intercourse is not the be-all and end-all of a couple's sex life. It might be that if you can find other ways to express your feelings for each other, and to enjoy each other's sexuality, your wife might gradually feel more receptive to the act of sexual intercourse.

Ignore the callous advice from people like P. Mason, a person who obviously has no compassion for, or understanding of, other people and their problems.

TXcowboy 16 yrs ago

p. mason is right on the spot, but I am going to push the envelope a bit.

Marriage is a contract. Like any contract, you are expected to behave in the way you presented yourself to be. When that changes, you have every right to cancel that contract.

No, I am not asking you to get divorced. What I am asking you is to be happy. She doesn't give you sex? No problem. Find someone who does. If what you wrote is true (we don't have the lady's point of view) then you have every right to have a lover.

You asked her, many times, and she thinks she can force you to be in a sexless marriage...I believe you gave her all the warning she needed.

Amparo Kia 16 yrs ago

I agreed with you, Woods, Mason, you are not helphing here, OP can just disregard such advise.

we girls do talk about this subject between ourselves and find that generally after giving birth, women tend to not wanting sex (don't know why), it doesn't mean they do not love their husbands, one reason maybe she is afraid of getting pregnant again, so the choice of contraceptive is a point to discuss. other reason is women tend to worry more than men, they have so much on their mind and yes, OP you may not aware of it, but a working mother is very tough and physically exhausting, I don't know about your household arrangement but generally women spend more time and energy in taking care of children, so yes, I would say she probably is really tired.

cookie09 16 yrs ago

the fundamental point is that if there is a need that is not met, you have a problem. the need will be met anyway, it's just a question of how.

if the women have a valid reason why they do not want or cannot have sex, then please acknowledge that and find a solution for the man to meet his need. better for the women to control and know how he does it, rather than him doing it secretly.

i know many women prefer to live in their illusion that they can deny that need of the man AND nothing will happen. that's an illusion unfortunately

samtaylor 16 yrs ago

Thanks to all above and I will try to comment in points below:

1. Agree with Cookie, exercise would help but she says no time for it due to children and she even makes me feel guilty when I do. Also I am happy to exercise and have done it for many years, still do but she has never done that, so it is a matter of inclination rather than time I feel. She acknowledges the benefit in words but says has no time.

2. YES i have made my feelings very clear and she says it is OK in day and then the familiar excuses of tiredness , late nite, early morning excuses etc, though she does happily would come late from dinner or watch TV, movies till 1 or 2 pm or chat. BUT when it comes to sex she does not have 15 mins. I used to be gullible for 8 years but now I feel the veil has lifted from my eyes and rightly or wrongly I also feel negative and do not want to pamper her anymore or even have sex. She still wants me to pamper her and asks for signs of affection, love in a non- physical way and complains when I don't like opening car door etc.

3. I have talked about seeing counsellor but she says I have the problem and I should see counsellor alone.

4.Mason I can relate to you but I do not want to go anywhere else hence this post.

5. Woods , good suggestion, she does find penetration painful sometimes , even now so will suggest her to see doctor.

6. Amparo, She is indeed afraid of getting pregnant again as we both our children were born with only 1 or 2 rare events of sex. In fact the only time we enjoyed each other and had great sex was for 1 month after marriage and then she got pregnant and we had a kid rightaway and everything stopped. BUT she is very erratic with oral contraceptives, i do not like condoms for long term use, we are averse to Surgery. So do not know what to do.

7. Cookie your suggestion is very bookish, life does not work that way, I wouldn't want her to see other man and neither would she like me to do that....it is not as 1 of us is physically handicapped etc.

Keep ideas pouring , atleast I have someone to share my thought, I obviously can't ask people I know...Next stop would probably be a counsellor, I owe it to my family and kids.....Please tell me if I am being unreasonable in my demands?

sicn 16 yrs ago

There are many reasons women lost sex drive. I read a research said that once women in a secure relationship, their libido level is much lower. Or she is probably physically very tired from holding a respectful job and mothering your children at the same time. Clinically, some women suffer from low or no sex drive, but it is curable with proper treatment. Or maybe, just maybe, she lost physical attraction from you: did you put on weight in the middle, hair thinning… You maybe surprise that when it comes to sex drive, women may be as visual as men are.

So I think there are things you can do but not harmful to your marriage:

1. Go see a doctor to check it out. Sometimes the doctor can prescribe some medicine for her even though she might not have a medical condition.

2. Help her to have more free time. When woman having free time of her own, her sex drive will go up.

3. Be more physical and improve your physical outlook. Make time to work out and not tell her, surprise her in the kitchen with a firm lift of her from behind and let her feel your firm muscles… Women like physical surprise apart from mundane everyday life … If physical improvement is not possible, at least try some arrangement like surprise romantic dinner or something. What I am saying is women never tired of being the Cinderella rescued by the prince of charm scenario…

4. If all this above does not help, you can play the devil’s role. One thing can definitely wake up women’s sex drive: jealousy. But before you do anything, make sure you draw a line and promise yourself never cross it. I DO NOT suggest you to sleep with or go for other women, NO! That is cheating and it is a deal breaker. But you can do these, for example: Create some unknown phone numbers or suspicious text messages, just make her wonder. Then you will carelessly leave some love poems, notes around about what a man’s desire and admiration of a woman and at the same time be very sweet and attentive to her. I have a friend who left an address “carelessly” and his wife found it and followed to that address, busted into the room and only found out he was there waiting for her… You can just imagine what kind of “fight” they are having that night. I don’t suggest you to go for that extreme. What I mean is you can be a little bit mysterious. Wake her up by not telling her to wake up.

woods99 16 yrs ago

Sam,

From what you said in your second post, it sounds like your wife has some issues to deal with. Perhaps she needs psychological help, depending on whether or not she has some medical problems that can be addressed, or some emotional issues that counselling can work towards resolving. If not, maybe she has to accept that she needs psychological help. After all, a marriage between a man and a woman does include the physical, sexual, aspect, as well as everything else.

I believe that you are well within your rights as a loving husband to insist that your wife attend counselling with you - she can say that "it is your problem", but clearly if there are problems of sexual maladjustment in a marriage this is a problem that both parties have to own and solve together. If she truly loves you, she should be as interested in your happiness, as you are in hers.

Are there areas of your life together where you could do more things together, or even where you can do more things for her that she likes and appreciates? In Western society it is said that offering to wash the dishes for one's wife is a great aphrodisiac.

Incidentally, I do not particularly like the idea of discussing earlier in the day whether or not there is going to be an attempt at sex that night - I think it would be better to approach the night more casually, go for the foreplay, be gentle and loveing, accept that only foreplay might happen, be just a little bit more patient and supportive, but also persistent. Try different kinds of foreplay, try to find things that you both enjoy, and that she in particular gets sexually aroused by.

cookie09 16 yrs ago

"3. I have talked about seeing counsellor but she says I have the problem and I should see counsellor alone."

She sounds like a man ;-)

Barraclough 16 yrs ago

Um, I don't want to read too much into one phrase but you seem dismissive of foreplay when you talk about the penetration being "the real thing". Perhaps you weren't paying enough attention to your wife's needs so didn't find the sex enjoyable.

Time to start flossing, perhaps?

Amparo Kia 16 yrs ago

Sam, you two need to work out a contraceptive plan, obviosuly your wife is not keen on taking the birth control pills (as this could have some side effects), and you being not liking the use of condoms, see, you have to understand, when she is worried about getting pregnant again, how will she like sex when she is worried. The best contraceptive for her is to avoid it completely.. I think she loves you as she likes the cuddling, the foreplay but not the actual act, and the pain..and like sicn said, just in case, it never hurts to make yourself more attractive.

backdoorman 16 yrs ago

Sam,

Did it ever occur to you that she may be getting "it" somewhere else? Maybe you are not seeing the full picture.

tigerbay 16 yrs ago

My immediate thoughts, simplistic though they are.

This is an arranged marriage. Your wife may never have loved you and she never have found you sexually attractive. To her sex was a chore and, as has been pointed out, she has her children now.

All this stuff about you being the one with the problem may just be displacing the blame away from her, for not doing what she does not want to do, but others may see as her duty.

If you really wanted to push the arguement, ask her how she would feel if you used the services of a prostitute. If she says, "that would be ok", then what?

Sapphire 16 yrs ago

Reading through these posts, it seems to me that the majority of responses have been from men. So, it's not surprise that the majority seem to be blaming the wife ... she's always tired, maybe penetration is painful, maybe she has a medical problem, she's had kids now she's not interested, etc. Well, from a woman's perspective, I don't mean to be blunt, but perhaps she's simply not sexually attracted to her husband. It was an arranged marriage, so it's not as though they had time to get to know each other sexually to know if they were compatable before marriage. And the fact that sex only happened a couple of times each month seems a bit unusual for newly weds. The fact that she enjoys foreplay but not intercourse could possibly suggest that the husband isn't a particulary great lover ... so maybe she enjoys the foreplay but the intercourse is a bit of a chore if not enjoyable?? If the worry of getting pregnant again is a big issue for your wife, then surely the use of condoms, even though you don't like them, is a small price to pay for getting the sex that you so badly want?

Quote -

"BUT when it comes to sex she does not have 15 mins."

Mmm .... Maybe it isn't just the wife with a problem? I'll say no more (please read my previous comment)!

Barraclough 16 yrs ago

Sapphire you have summed up what i was trying to say: The fact that she enjoys foreplay but not intercourse could possibly suggest that the husband isn't a particulary great lover ... so maybe she enjoys the foreplay but the intercourse is a bit of a chore if not enjoyable??

bdi 16 yrs ago

Sam, I think My Hongkong's advise makes a lot of sense in your case.

GemmaW 16 yrs ago

From my observation, most of the respondents are men and a few women. But just out of curiosity, are any of you women mothers with young kids who are totally dependent on you every hour of the day... even at nights when they would kick off blankets leaving you in very light sleep with a full day of non-stop care and housework and even a full time job?

Sam, I am first to admit that I am just like your wife AFTER giving birth. AND, mine was not an arranged marriage. In fact, my husband and I were both head over hills in love with one another and we had a very active sex life. We knew each other for 3 years before marrying.

On average, we also only have sex twice a month, sometimes one or two times more, sometimes less.

All mothers have different schedules so it is difficult to compare. Some mothers are hands-on mothers and therefore will find themselves more tired than others. Sometimes I say to my husband that it would be nice if he would help out at home so that I can enjoy more "free" time. I have to confess that if I had "free" time, I'd rather sleep because I lack sleep. I sleep, on average, 6 hours a day and we're talking about very "light" sleep.

It also depends on culture. I agree that Asian women in particular are not so confident with their bodies so they don't enjoy sex the same way men do.

All women desire "touching" and "affection" before they can really enjoy sex.

Very young children are dependent on their mothers. We are their everything and at this age, children take priority over husbands. Husbands can at least fend for themselves. These little ones still need us in the first 6-7 years of their lives.

I think it would be unfair to say that a wife does not love her husband if she's unwilling to have sex. It's just that women, especially mothers do have a low sexual libido. I love my husband more than anything.

I understand that men NEED sex and I know it is a problem as well when we don't give.. but sometimes when I hit the bed, all I want to do is sleep. He sometimes makes me sleep early, say at 10.30pm with one thing on his mind.... I don't mind if he hurries with this so I could sleep an hour more than usual. This thread serves as a reminder that my husband has needs too and I will no doubt make more effort... but I think he knows it that I'd rather sleep. I'm not saying females are right because it is a problem if a husband's need isn't met, but rather, I'm saying that I do understand where she's coming from.

Ask me what I want as a present and I'd say 5 days at an island ALL by myself where I can sleep and read all the novels I've been wanting to read. And after, I'm sure I'll be interested in sex! How do I read now? I read during my 15 minute walk to work. How dangerous is that? But time is that precious for me.

samtaylor 16 yrs ago

Thanks again guys & gals and here is my response

1. Let me make it clear we had GREAT SEX for a month till we found out she was pregnant and we were doing it twice a day, everyday....our real honeymoon, so the capabilities on both our parts are there.

2. Ours was not a typical arranged marriage but rather an INTRODUCED one and we actually choose each other after meeting a dozen people and met a few times before getting married and we were physically and emotionally attracted. Anyone of us had the choice of not agreeing to marriage.

3. THe thought that she might be getting it elsewhere has crossed my mind but I am not sure how to procced with that, any suggestions on how to find out ?

4. She still wants to cuddle me everynight but lately I am freezing as it leads nowhere.Getting into a negative state of mind where I am blowing my top every morning and acting cold at night.

5. Will try counselling.

6. Gemma read my comments about late night TV, Dinner etc. I am not a ruthless sex maniac , infact I have been trying to be in her shoes and empathise with her all these years, perhaps too long and it is being taken for granted. So ladies don't fall into the self pity trap ladies and think from a man's view as well.

7,. I put up this post after agonising over it for an year and have tried many things suggested above including flossing. But I am still willing to listen and get a different perspective on handling this situation.....and guys will appreciate there is a problem while maybe woman will feel esp. my wife feels we are over-reacting and creating too much fuss.

7. Barraclough I haven't had much chance to prove myself, have I? Remember it takes two to tango...but even if you are right about me being a bad lover in her mind , what are the options I have?

cookie09 16 yrs ago

3. private investigator?

tigerbay 16 yrs ago

Sam

You say the problem started after your wife became pregnant, there could be a connection. Somebody else hinted at a fear of pregnancy as well.

You could discuss vasectomy with your wife. As a seperate topic, when she is not cornered into a conversation about your mutual sex life. I am not saying you must have a vasectomy, but discussing things could start the converstation going in a different direction -it may not.

samtaylor 16 yrs ago

Thank you my hong kong, I have tried that tack and she said I was an immoral selfish bad person for saying that and she is a good girl dedicated to the kids. If I wanted to do those things I would not be just talking would I. I think my HK is right about counselling also, in Indian culture good decent girls are not supposed to enjoy sex it seems from my wife's conversation and I am a pervert for demanding it once every week or month.

Maybe I am a sucker who can't see the obvious but I am giving her the benefit of doubt as she is a good mum. Are there other people in my situation, I hope not. Refreshing to see other side of coin as well

We are not really cold to each other and she likes to hold me every night and if I don't she feels rejected. In fact if I pretend to be not interested than she demands my attention and love but alas in a non-sexual way.. Regarding Singaporeans idea she is extremely possessive of me and jealous , suspicous if any other girl even has a conversation with me....that usually ends up in an argument and accusations instead of her trying to win me back.

She even takes contraceptive pills at the start of cycle when I show my resentment , anger , then forgets to take them after 1 week or forgets it and I have taken a firm stand of no more condoms now, so we are ending up with no sex for last 5 months. Actually I am also getting fed up and do not PESTER her any more about it which she seems to be taking quite well. Though she still wants expressions of my love as jewellery, dinners etc. She is not greedy but that to her is the proof that I love her....but I am not getting any proof of her love and becoming resentful. Maybe I should put my foot down and deny her all privileges of happy married life?

Is it true that girls do not feel the same need as us for physical pleasure?? or is this strange.

cookie09 16 yrs ago

holy hell, you are hostage to a really vicious lady. sorry to say

she denies you at every turn (and this seems not only sex) and then blames it on you when you demand something. my friend you only have two choices:

1. you fight and fight like hell

2. you accept the fact and cheat on her to satisfy your needs

tigerbay 16 yrs ago

Sam

Perhaps you buying her things is not proof of you love. What she is perhaps looking for is proof of your commitment to the relationship/marriage. These are different but related things.

As for other recent advice, always avoid saying anything that sounds like an ultimatum.

samtaylor 16 yrs ago

Thanks Cookie, I am reaching that conclusion and can't simply get out of this situation because of indian values and kids.

Any suggestions for private investigator or phone tapping etc?

Tigerbay, I can't understand you,are you a woman. Could you please elaborate the difference? ?

tasman237 16 yrs ago

samtaylor, I'm not an expert in marriage life and sex and I can't offer you much of any advice that is right or wrong but don't take those advices that asked you to cheat on her unless you think the marriage is over. cheating is the end of a a relationship, you betrayed your spouse and your children. Cheating not only hurt your spouse but also your kids.

Hope you work things out.

tigerbay 16 yrs ago

A person can be commited to the marriage. This could mean, you he/she no plans to leave, or go off to live with another lover. He/she will continue to provide material and phsychological support to his/her spouse and children. He/she will continue to live at home and show to the family and the world that they are a happy family unit.

This can be done without loving the spouse, or being loved back; with a man-woman sex and passion kind of love that is. However you can have a brother-sister kind of love, friends forever, and for some couples that is enough (once the other love has gone).

Advice on private eye or phone tapping. This is a big breach of trust, to spy on your spouse. I personally would only recommend this if the relationship is over and you are seeking evidence for a divorce.

How would you feel if your wife had you spied on? Do you want her to feel that way? Don't assume she cannot find out, what would you do if she did find out?

Dr Strangelove 16 yrs ago

Divorce your wife Samtaylor (or let her divorce you). Accept that you will give her the best settlement you can including a property settlement (if applicable), at least half your money and generous child maintenance/contact and alimony every month. It will be worth it.

Take it on the chin and divorce with dignity and your self-respect intact. From the picture you paint there is no marriage left to save. Save your self and your wife from more misery and both of you do what is best for your children.

Put a couple of years between you and this mess and you'll be back on the right track. Forget all this cheating lark and private investigators and phone tapping (which is illegal). You are heading for a divorce my friend. Do it with dignity and a clear head and do what is best for all of you. Good luck.

tasman237 16 yrs ago

i read about it a little bit more. If getting pregnant again is the worry and pills, condoms and operation are not options then do you know there are other options? There are other non painful options.

Pills have side effects that might make her not interested in sex and if penetration is still painful for her at this point then she might not be stimulated enough? or dryness is one of the after birth problems that women are facing so lubricant might help? i think she still loves you but something is stopping her to go beyon cuddling or foreplay. I guess talking doesn't work since you have already tried and indian culture probably is a wall that stops her from voicing out her physical needs. Counselling is the best but if this is not an option for her now then how about adult movies since you said she has no problem staying up with tv. If this is acceptable then start with adult movies but have lubricant ready in case dryness/penetration pain is a problem.

Sapphire 16 yrs ago

samtaylor - After reading everything you have written, I really don't think you are in need of a private investigator or phone tapping. Sounds to me like the last think on your wife's mind is an extra marital affair. As a mother of two kids, now grown up, I remember only too well how exhausted I always felt, and quite frankly, the last thing on my mind (most nights!) when I went to bed was sex ... all I wanted to do was sleep. And in the mornings when hubby was feeling amorous and wanted a quickie before work, all I wanted was an extra 15 mins sleeping!

You comment that she's quite happy to stay up talking, or watching TV until 1 or 2am ... that's different, it doesn't require any energy or input, you can just slob out on the sofa and relax. Rest assured, as your kids get older and more independant, things usually do get better;-)

What your wife needs is not to feel pressured ... it will only make her more likely to reject you. Be patient, continue to show her affection ... that's what most women want ... unfortunately, a lot of men can't understand this and are only interested in getting into her knickers, and forget about the bit in between!

If she's still enjoying foreplay, then that's a good sign ... ask her what she likes you to do to her ... tell her you love to see her having pleasure. Occassionaly, don't finish the job ... tell her your tired and need to sleep ... it'll leave her wanting more!

Finally, and most importantly, talk to each other ... and I don't mean you simply pressuring her about the lack of sex! Tell her how much you love her and miss the intimacy between the two of you. Tell her you realise how exhausting it is for her looking after a family, and tell her she's doing a great job of mothering your children. Let her know how much you appreciate what she does.

Oh, and one last thing, I agree with tasman237 ... whatever you do, if you want your marriage to continue, don't take the advice of the the posters who have suggested that you look elsewhere for sex. We all try to teach our kids that they can't have everything they want when they want it ... Just be a grown-up and be patient and understanding ... it'll more than likely pay-off!

Sapphire 16 yrs ago

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Well, what great advice from Dr. Strangelove!! ... You're not getting sex from your wife so divorce her ... regardless of whatever the problem is why she's not wanting sex ... that's not important!! All that's important is that you are not getting sex!!

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Mmm, did samtaylor not say that he still loves his wife and she loves him?? There are so many loveless marriages in the world. If they have a chance of a marriage based on love and respect ... and not just on sex ... I would have thought it would be a marriage worth saving ......

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Only you know what is best for all of you. Good luck!

Sideline 16 yrs ago

There is a cure for your poor wife… leave her… and shortly after years of headache and tiredness seems to disappear like magic… and the sex drive comes back… seen it a million times.

AiZhongWen 16 yrs ago

Sapphire

I agree with most of what you said, but a relationship is a two-way thing, is it not? This guy hasn't had sex with his wife for 5 months(!), while still providing her with the affection and material things that she wants, yet you say "a lot of men can't understand this and are only interested in getting into her knickers, and forget about the bit in between". It seems to me that the situation here is quite the opposite - she's getting everything she wants, but is forgeting about the needs of the guy. If he were demanding sex everyday, I could understand. Once a week would be reasonable. But not for 5 months? Come on...

kriskk 16 yrs ago

On wife's defence it is exhausting being a full time working wife in HK and feeling guilty about not spending enough time with children and wanting to see them up to standard in competative schools here, you use every ounce of remaining energy on them. Exhausted you eventually drop into bed hoping to sleep only to find another chore...not surprising she wants to get things over with asap.

Try taking her on holiday alone,find time to relax and indulge her but beware she may feel guilty about leaving the children.

mammina 16 yrs ago

Take a couple only holiday..... maybe somewhere within HK so she will not feel too guilty leaving the kids..... maybe in one of the islands(although it's a bit cold now).Explain to her that you need to reconnect because you are feeling neglected and your needs are not being met.Im sure she might hesitate at first,but Im sure she'll be okay.As for pregnancy fears,there are other contraceptions that are somewhat permanent but doesnt involve surgery....IUD(intra-uterine device),very quick procedure,painless and gives you 5 years of fearless romantic times!

hellokittyhk 16 yrs ago

Hi Sam,

Sorry to hear you are having troubles.

Personally I think that it is no one's 'fault', but I can see that a pattern has evolved and leads to the same outcome day after day.

From a woman's perspective... libido varies considerably from person to person, and for a woman there are many environmental factors that will have an effect.

You mention that your wife works and you have children also - these 2 factors will definitely impact a sex drive, not to mention anything else going on in your lives (fights about sex don't help either!).

The OCP (the pill) is a bad idea for contraception - the pill prevents ovulation (which is what you want with a contraceptive), but a side effect of this is that the hormones released at the time of ovulation (the 'sex drive' hormones) are suppressed. The end result is a reduced libido which, with long term use, can lead to a permanent libido loss. This being the case, perhaps you need to explore other contraceptive options.

Now, a point that probably hasn't been raised (sorry, have skipped over the last couple of entries...) - if you force sex on someone that has no desire to have sex, the result can be horrendous. Forcing a person does not necessarily mean physically forcing - it can also be coercing, or guilting them into it. Sex is pretty much the most intimate act a person can do, and if you make them do that, they will resent you. What you really want to achieve is having your wife WANT to have sex with you.

Please ignore all the advice listed above suggesting that you make your wife jealous, or threaten to find sex elsewhere... this will NOT achieve what you want, it will make your wife resent you more. You mention that in Indian culture that women are not meant to enjoy sex... this probably has some impact, I know that for other people the old 'Catholic guilt' has an impact, as would other cultural and religious influences.

What I suggest is that you seek professional advice - a recommended psychotherapist in HK as per asiaxpat (I have not personally used this service, but the website looks good: Read More

Best wishes.

teme 16 yrs ago

Hi All, from the other side, yes I am female, I'd say look at health issues, My husband was always TOO tired etc. BAD diet, lack of exercise, smoking etc all affect libido. Try going on a health kick together. ALSO it is very possible that the woman here really has no idea of men's needs!!!

Guardian Angel 16 yrs ago

Hi Sam,

I have great respect for you to post this for opinion and suggestion instead of having an affair.

Your wish is not demanding and is just normal.

Some thoughts came to my mind ....

- Her feeling pain ... doctor told me one third of women have their uterus leaned back which could cause great pain during period and also intercourse; also some women have their uterus "fused" with other organs which could cause pain during intercourse, surgery could solve this problem but the "fusing" could happen again; if she constantly has concern about getting pregnant, her fear might prevent her from getting "lubricated", as someone suggested before, try using lubricant.

- Her feeling tired .... understandable being a career woman and a loving mother ... what about offering to pamper her by asking her to lie down in bed to relax and do nothing ... give her a great massage ... perhaps use a toy cos some women prefer external stimulation more and see how she reacts ... give her no pressure as if she had to finish it off or return you some favour .... see if she wanted more of you ... try a couple of times to let her know that you pamper her not expecting returns ... see if she'd make a move one day ....

- There's a book called Sexy Mamas - Keeping Sex Life Alive while Raising Kids, available on amazon.com or this new lingerie shop called Showtime in Soho, if she is not keen to read it, perhaps you can read it and guide her through.

- I agree with others that perhaps you could use condoms for now to see if this might make her feel more comfortable and secured, bring the sex life back and then you two can decide whether condoms can be dropped.

Just want to let you know that you are not the only one going through this, I have guy and girl friends telling me similar stories, some got divorced, some got depressed but I'm proud of you that you're trying to sort out this problem and did for many years to pamper her and try to satisfy her. Please don't give up and remind yourself all her great qualities !

Do you have a female friend who's also closed to her to perhaps talk to her about this and see what your wife is thinking or feeling ?

All the best and hope everything will get better ! = )

samtaylor 16 yrs ago

Thanks everyone for your concern and advise, will think and try to digest all ideas.

Jupiter105 16 yrs ago

Sam.. if you decide to go down the route of a therapist then I highly recommend Nikki Green +852 9104 1667

She is a couples/ relationship therapist and is excellent

GemmaW 16 yrs ago

My husband and I had a very active sex life before I became pregnant as well. Everything went downhill afterwards... one word: Exhaustion.

If I wasn't a mother myself, I would have said there was something wrong with your wife like some of the women who have posted. As a mother, I only know too well how demanding kids can be. I understand that husbands try to help out as well and wives appreciate this.... but somehow the burden is still there.

visitors 16 yrs ago

My husband is a very hands-on father and we have 2 young children. Although he helps out and he offers to help at night, I want him to get enough sleep to go to work the next day. I am always in a light sleep so I can comfort the children before they start crying loudly. For some reason, the children do wake up for different reason and for the past 4 years, I've never slept for a straight 3 hours. As much as I love to be intimate with my husband, sometimes I find myself absolutely exhausted and gross. I miss the time when I feel sexy and wanted but I don't have time to take care of myself and I don't feel like the same person when I first met my husband. I resigned from my job a few months ago and I remember between the job and the children, there was hardly any time left for my husband and I. Although I am back to my pre-pregnancy weight, I am still not in a good shape. I want to feel good and take care of every member in the house especially my husband. you know what, SAM, I want to do that because my husband told me how much he missed the old me. (I quit my job because of a different reason thou.) I have the same issue with you guys. My husband and I are super fertile and in the past, it did scare me a little so TALK to your wife. take care!

Billyboy2 16 yrs ago

I have read this post and felt the need to reply. In all honesty, the ultimate solution here is to seek the services of a prostitute. This will save your marriage and a sacrifice you need to make for the sake of your family. Not having sex in the long term will drive you into infidelity and before you know it you will be with a mistress. Getting it off a pro however will not have the emotional attachment. I also suggest you consider telling your wife that you will go to a prostitute as there are needs you need to satisfy.

woods99 16 yrs ago

Cara,

My understanding is that arranged marriages can be, and are, as rich and long-lasting as western style marriages.

That initial sexual attraction in western marriages sometimes does not last very long - it needs to be replaced by a deeper, more mature, love. No reason why this is not true in arranged marriages also.

Of course a small minority of marriages are a lifelong honeymoon. If yours is one of them, lucky you.

woods99 16 yrs ago

Cara,

Apparently the OP and his wife had a good sexual relationship up until the time she had the first child. So there was some kind of spark, in the western sense.

One of the problems in discussions like this is that we only have one word for love in the English language, when clearly there are at least six different major categories of love, each deserving their own word.

Mickey_hongkong 16 yrs ago

What I would do is set the scene on a night that the children are out of the house. Perhaps they can sleep over with friends, or grandparents. If this does not work, get a babysitter and go to a nice restaurant together. Dress nicely, buy roses and have a romantic evening together. Make her feel very special, and tell her how much you love here and that you are proud of her. I think that your relationship lacks romance. She is prob. very busy with work, children, cooking etc.

When you have a very nice evening together, dont expect to have sex right away. Perhaps it takes a while before she gets that feeling back of being desired, which is very important to woman.

I have been married for 7 years now, and I always try to make an efford to make my wife feel special. Buy her nice gifts, tell her she looks great, treat yourselves to an intimate spa or massage each other. These things will improve your connectiveness.

blobbs 16 yrs ago

Agreed above. Its reasonable for her not to have sex, if for whatever reason, she does not enjoy it. or feels uncomfortable. But it is totally unreasonable not to agree to talk about it or see a therapist, or to see it as your problem. You have suffered and agonized long enough. And the lack of sex may be symptomatic of something fundamentally wrong in the relationship, and it needs to be sorted. Personally , I have no great hopes for idea of trying romantic evenings and flowers etc. Likely she will see it right away as a ruse for getting your wicked way, she will resent it, and after that she could see every romantic action from you as a kind of sexual advance which will just make matters worse. I think your problem has gone beyond that after such a long time, and its probably more than the pressures of her life etc.

duncan 16 yrs ago

Sam. This is a relationship worth saving and if fear of pregnancy is the problem, please think seriously about a vasectomy, unless you have any cultural or religious grounds for not wanting one. I had this op many years ago. It was completely painless, took 3 days to get over and just 20 minutes for the op itself. After 2 weeks, sent in specimen to check all had worked. Easy - and sex was so much better after that (that's all in the mind of course, but then a lot of pleasure is in the mind). Why not talk things over from the POV of fear of pregnancy and then make the offer, or if you do get to counselling, as others have suggested, be willing to offer to have the op if it helps. Good luck.

Amparo Kia 16 yrs ago

personally I doubt couselling would help, can't imagine a conservative woman would be willing to discuss such intimate subject to a complete stranger...

Sam, have you thought about putting down your frustration and agony in writing and let her read it, sometimes, it is better than verbally discussing it face to face especially for a shy woman. anyway, just my thought..

flashback 16 yrs ago

A marriage without sex where there is no valid reason for denying it is either a friendship or a sham. Hire a maid if your wife is too tired. Call her on it. My Goodness... why are people so afraid to ask for what they need?

woods99 16 yrs ago

Cara,

I think the point that was being made is that if the wife is too tired for sex, maybe one of the reasons is because she has to do the housework. So hiring a maid would remove one of the causes of her tiredness.

However, you should not be surprised that, for some maids in some households, providing sexual services for the "master" is part of the deal.

Justin Credible (Part Deux) 16 yrs ago

I am sorry but...hubby here is a ninny!

If I was gaggin for it, I would double wrap it if that was the only way I was gonna get some!

"taken a stand against condoms" *SMH*

Whatever!

If you aren't getting any, it seems you arent keen enough to start wearing such a minor inconvenience as a condom in order to get some! What does "taking a stand" AGAINST condoms gonna solve? Extra sensation for that sex you are going to have to begin having with someone other than your wife?

This is so daft its childish and I am surprised more people haven't had anything to say about it.

Wife is fertile, hubby's sperm have twice proven to be capable of swimming upstream without a problem and we are here insisting its ok to not wear condoms and somehow its wife's fault if she is scared to get pregnant because she can't remember to take the pill everyday! Hell, I can't even remember to take my vitamins!!!

OP - you want sex, you don't need therapy or anything else, just quit being a baby and just wear a condom!!! Buy some KY get yourself a pack of featherlites and foreplay away before finally getting some with your wife, the hot chick you married. This isnt a matter of who wins or loses by using contraception, its obvious you are the one getting bitter for getting no lay and yet you INSIST on keeping it that way and blaming her when really, as many have suggested, you too, that she isnt keen to get preggers again!

As a married man, its not uncommon that condoms are used, its just caveman logic to insist on not using them when knowing full well it does take, as you say, TWO HANDS to clap! You need to put a hat on it if you hope for it to rain!

If you follow other guys advice and go get sex somewhere else, will you then insist on not using a condom then as well? Think....you are protesting a totally childish issue...its a small price to pay to get some poonani, dude. Really. I am sure you are good in the sack, its your other head that ain't thinking straight.

Icarusflys2 16 yrs ago

Sam Taylor

Gone thru most of what is being said, You mentioned that you have made your feelings clear to her, but my question to you is:

Have you asked her about how she feels?

The other thing I hear you say is that she is afraid of getting pregnant & you are not in favour of condoms...is there a reason for disliking condoms?

Just to add a different dimension to this discussion, have you considered that there could be some reason that she is disinterested, and not be just sex, but in other areas of her life as well?

What you have shared here is just a part of your life, so I would like to ask you to look at other areas of you own life too, if thats ok with you, before putting it all on her (not being judgmental here!)

cookie09 16 yrs ago

justin credible,

the point is not that he is for or against condoms, the point is that she is the sissy and refuses to talk about the issue - WHATEVER the real issue is. it's clear that he has tried to initiate the discussion and she refuses to discuss.

IF she is afraid of pregnancy, then she should say so and not just refuse sex.

Justin Credible (Part Deux) 16 yrs ago

I do believe, cookie09, if you read some of OP's messages, the wife HAS in fact expressed her fear of getting pregnant. Refusing sex would have a lot to do with simply losing interest in hubby altogether, or the painful sex she seems to have, OR the fear of pregnancy when your partner insists on a no condom rule, pssshhhh, this isnt about therapy refusal, maybe we should be asking, as icarus did, WHY is there this steadfast no condom rule and an issue with going in for the snip? If there are no plans to have any more kids, whats the issue with a vasectomy? The boy bits remain in working condition, really, they do.

Icarusflys2 16 yrs ago

Justine/Cookie

Earlier posts have suggested things which will only get Sam to look at the problem, what we're looking to help him with. We need to be solution focused, currently it seems to be problem-focused. Looking into other areas of one's life could help achieve that.

Losing interest in sex is only a side-effect, & could mean that the Mrs is unsatisfied in other areas as well. Very often we hear Women complain that the man is only interested in sex, sex and only sex.

Now @ Sam: Look deep, look hard, in other areas too & don’t neglect them. An indicator, for the highlighted problem, which infact could be only a side-effect, could be found there.

If this seems to be the way to go, please let me know, I be happy to help you

take care

tradingpostasiaexpat 16 yrs ago

Sammy, my boy, you really want to find out whats up with her? then ask her to read your post and comment on all that other folks have presumed, suggested and cared to share. After reading, she may realize she needs to change or will at least clarify if there is something about you or your approach. She will tell you why she is as she is. You don't need outsiders to help you with this.

I seriously doubt it if she is seeking physical intimacy elsewhere. You've mentioned that she cuddles up to you and likes you to hold her, she will even clarify about other women...I think this is proof enough that she loves you and wants you. Believe me, you really don't need outsiders to help you judge your wife.

If it helps to know, you should know, that there are two types of people - First who like physical contact / touch to know that they are loved and then those who prefer to talk, share and stay close. Close enough for you to know that you are not alone and they are there by your side when you need them in your hour of need (far beyond physical requirements). I think your wife belongs to the second group and you should actually feel lucky to be in the company of such a lady. My wife is just like yours and I have no qualms about not having sex for any extended period. Neither do I go looking for it elsewhere. Never have. You see, it all depends what part of your wife or your life with her you value the most. If she is indispensable and sex is a must have option then walk to Wanchai. Other option is to wait for it to rain.

We all have different requirements. Sex to me is not as important as being together - sharing lives and events that unfold everyday.

Rihanna 16 yrs ago

Sam,

I agree with tradingpost. You should consider letting your wife read your posts and the all the comments and suggestions.

It should not do any harm but might even do some good for both of you.

I feel for you but I feel sorry for your wife even more. This issue should not be a man - woman "thing". I believe that every person - man and woman - should enjoy sex and the intimacy that comes with it. And what better way to enjoy sex than to share it with the person you love and married.

I know I sound idealistic but marriage is built on ideals and in order for it to work, couples should both work and fight for those ideals especially when the realities of married life sets in.

It is clear that your wife does not yet want to face up to the realities and is clearly not willing to admit that something is troubling not just her husband - but already the marriage itself. Help her, make her face these issues.

Talk to her and make her listen, and vice versa.

At the end of the day, both of you will have to make a decision. To be happy or not. For I don't believe she is happy with just her kids and the present role she has taken on in your relationship.

She needs the intimacy as much as you do.

rainbow1980 15 yrs ago

No wonder there are men that cheating or keep mistress ...

If you choose to close your eyes with your own hands, don't blame your man when you see he is naked with another woman...

spurtio 15 yrs ago

A French man just found a novel solution to his no sex in marriage problem....albeit a somewhat drastic one

Read More

rainbow1980 15 yrs ago

S*x is not only really important to men but also really important to women.

And marriage is not only the commitment "do not have s*x out of marriage" but also the commitment "DO have s*x in the marriage"

Yeah, men won't die without s*x, but it will make them more than want to die...

balzac 15 yrs ago

I think he is a really good man who genuinely loves his wife. I think they need to communicate more openly and he needs to communicate that sex is essential to him in a marriage, otherwise resentment will brew and cause a rot in the marriage. if she is understanding enough (or has enough brain cells) she will know that 30 mins of the 'dreaded deed' each week will help save a lifetime of good marriage with a kind and considerate man. Perhaps he had been too indulgent and giving in the marriage but he has to know when to draw the line and communicate this to her.

rainbow1980 15 yrs ago

by the way, to Taj_Wizard:

Sure, this man CAN get this comfort from other woman, as long as his wife doesn't mind and this is the marriage life they both want ( husband keeps mistress while wife keeps virgin ) . wowo... such a Platonic love ...

evianjune 15 yrs ago

can't believe this thread can last this long... so simple, marriage without sex is not acceptable! whatever the reason.

to me it looks like the woman lacks some basic knowledge about how to be a human, a woman for that matter; as well common sense of a man's BASIC needs.

She has no idea sex can be a enjoyable good thing that life has to offer. And too late perhaps for her to come to sense in that respect. Some people just do not wake up never.

sad for the man who's with someone like that.

wing412 15 yrs ago

i think people need to get some perspectives here, dear Sam, whoever is suggesting you to divorce/fxxk elsewhere/to threaten your wife, please ignore them, and that is to your own benefit, not mine. it's a marriage we're talking about here, not some silly teenage love where you will dump the girl if she doesnt want to give herself to you. couples dont get married because they enjoy the sex, they get married because they want to have a life together, sex is just one part of the many things in a couple's life. and stop attacking the arranged marriage part of this thread, sam already said they chose each other and they have a loving relationship and they enjoyed the sex before his wife gave birth.

i have to say some of you have got really stupid ideas, pretending to have an affair to make her jealous? what are you, even secondary school girls dont do that nowadays! p.mason is apparently frustrated himself and is just trying to pull somebody down with him. backdoorman is obviously a backdoorman in real life and doesnt have a wife nor children. only someone like him can be so unfair to a mom with 2 kids and a full time job

sam, i understand that you and your wife had a functional sex life before the kids came, and you mentioned that she enjoys foreplay but not the intercourse part because it is painful, isnt that obviously? maybe the childbirth gave her some sort of trauma, could be physical, could be psychological, but the fact is she feels pain, you insisting will only show how much you dont care about her feelings and just make her hate it even more right? imagine somebody rubbing a sand paper on your thing everytime you have a harden, i think you would find incredible excuses too

i know theres two side to a story, im not saying that you are not caring to your wife, im sure you do, and im not going to say that your wife is at fault, women are not supposed to feel pleasure while having sex in certain cultures, so you cant exactly blame her for not wanting to endure pain/discomfort, and she probably think it is alright to reject you, but maybe you can try a different approach? writing to her is a good idea, since men and women react differently when it comes to confrontation, this could be why she doesnt want to talk (literally) to you about this, i guess your conversations on this topic are usually short, considering when you suggested therapy to her she said you should be the one going... and then maybe slowly you guys can communicate in a way that you never tried, or eventually she will open up to therapy if she realised that it is a problem to your marriage and her own health (this could take a while for you to gently explain to her)

in the short term, why not try something different in bed? first condoms, why not? ok, if you really have an underlying cause to not use it, then can she simply take care of your need without penetration? she likes foreplay right? can she try using her hands? (from a woman's point of view, i suggest you not to rush her into using her mouth) then you never know, maybe you can use your fingers too? (i suggest you take this realllly slow, i wouldnt know whats her reaction)

about her being busy or tired, having children really is a full time job, i can tell you to try and take her place a day or two and be a full time dad and also work at the same time, but it just wont work, the attention from a mother and a father is totally different. this you'll just have to cope with. consider getting a maid so that your wife can take some time off and once shes relaxed, there should be more chances to have a genuine talk.

try and see :)

park786 15 yrs ago

The fact that you have an arranged marriage shows there is some aspect of traditionalism in your marriage. In a male dominated society sex was not for the woman. Women did not have their own sexual identity. If you want good sex you should have had free choice in your mate and chosen a strong independent woman who is in touch with her own needs. as it stands she is only servicing you!

In older male dominated societies the woman’s goal in life was to marry and have a baby. She married for social and economic security. I think you even mentioned you were at a good social/class level.

You had an arranged old style marriage that is in tune with a male dominated society. you got what you deserve. she got what she wants.

By the way, i am a man saying this.

selda 15 yrs ago

Sam,

does your wife feel pain during intercourse? If she does, then she needs to see an ob-gyn and find out the reason why after delivering her babies she cannot enjoy sex anymore.

If she is afraid of getting pregnant again, and doesn't remember to take the pill, she can explore alternatives with her doctor. The IUD coil is a good option as it does not contain hormones and can only be inserted and removed by an ob-gyn. If she doesn't mind hormonal contraceptives, then she can go for a contraceptive patch or injection, easier than taking the pill every day.

Keep all lines of communication open with her, and work together to save your sexual life. Visiting prostitutes and having affairs are not the solution, unlike what some idiots here think.

Diggers 15 yrs ago

sorry this doesnt help but its a good piece of wisdom for all...

Women marry men hoping that they will change, but they dont....

Men marry women hoping that they WONT change but they do.

also

Women give sex to get love.

Men give love to get sex.

Crude and not exactly true - but it gives some colour to the general nature of things.

ssleung 15 yrs ago

samtaylor I totally emphasize your situation as I'm in the same shoe, and I get exactly the same responses with my wife. We both love each other and have no intention in cheating, deceiving or divorcing. Which, causes the same agony as yours with no one to talk to, and no solution.

As much as I am willing to be understanding and all, it doesn't remove the need. One other suggestion I might give is DIY. There are countless sex sites out which you could help yourself with. I understand this might sounds funny but at least you're not cheating behind your wife or being with someone you pay to have sex with.

CaptDave 15 yrs ago

A marriage will fail unless two people have the same values , because without common values you cannot agree how to resolve issues.

Christianity teaches clearly against refusing sex - "The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife".

Other value systems will have their own point of view. it would seem to me that most systems would consider her behavior grounds for divorce.

good luck.

cheerybird_1974 15 yrs ago

Hi, sam! I am married woman with two kids. I do understand your wife why she does not want sex at all. To be hoest, after having two kids myself, I do not even think about sex also, this is simply I am very tired. Whenever I am in bed, I just want to sleep. That's all. But I do see your point, I can understand how frustrated you are not able to be intimate with you love one. My suggestion is: 1. Be a bit more patient with her (otherwise have a self-service to release your physical frustraion); 2. Take her to a holiday without the kids, to see wheather she is still interested in sex after she is totally relaxed during the holiday; If not, 3: She may need to see a professional to get help.

That is just my suggestion and I hope it helps. Otherwise good luck.

Cherry

I am based in Shanghai

mycalho 15 yrs ago

Hi Sam,

I am a guy and I understand your situation thoroughy ....... But mine is worse as we do not have children, so really no excuse ........ But alas, after reading so many suggestions ....... I think the best thing is to be understanding to her ....... and to reduce your libido by doing LOTS OF EXERCISE, activities or games to tire yourself out or keep occupied often ........ Of course DIY is good .... Or increase your stress levels by trying to make more money and you will definitely lose sex drive. .... Love and sex are 2 seperate thing after xx years marriage ... Look at it this way, when you are both 65, dont expect her to have sex anyway .... but you might still want it ........ So think creative, and do like all normal business men do.

ChristianDom 15 yrs ago

Hi,

I think a problem could be: Because You WANT Sex, she has the power / control to refuse. Until she likes to have sex too.... you, as men, are just available whenever she is in the mood.....this makes you very unattractive. As more you try to have sex as more unattractive you will become to her and your wife has the full control over the relationship, so for her the situation is boring but perfectly under control. Don't blame her... I think thats very natural.

I would suggest the following:

Talk to your wife and tell that you want have the SAME chances for both of you. Decide for yourself that you want to have a sexual timeout for 1 month and the important thing.... keep it, even if at that moment She wants sex! Also tell that after the month you will decide again for the next month and really wait for that month.

I am very sure she will try to attract you then or later...... because she wants to gain control again (thats programmed in our genes). Then the most difficult : stay at your decision!

The result will be that at least you and your wife have the same situation in that month (no sex available when desire). And I think her sexual drive will awake.... however even then always show that you obey your own rules!

tinyteddy 15 yrs ago

Christian, very original and interesting advice. She may simply celebrate at the husband's sexual timeout but worth a try for sure. Also OP why don't you look at learning to flirt (with wife!) and adding some sexual tension to the mix.

PupMonkey 15 yrs ago

Have you tried marriage counciling?

Maybe she feels as if all you want from her is sex. I agree with TinyTeddy.. if you flirt with her, make her feel attractive more than just a sex object she might want to do it a bit more.

Either that or you just have to accept that she's not a sexual person. Could you ask her kindly why she doesn't like sex? Maybe you're not doing what she likes, or maybe something happened to her before she met you that means she doesn't like sex.

If you can be calm and reasonable without accusing, it might be a good idea to simply ask her what's up.

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