Posted by
ahacha
15 yrs ago
Hi,
reading here about men using prostitution and "happy ending" massages, I wonder about those who have a spouse/partner who found out or to whom they admitted their deeds.
My question is addressed to the men in that category, or to people who know of men in that category, who have promised their other half that they would never do it again.
What happened next?
Did they really managed to definitely put an end to their habits?
If so, how so?
If not, well, did they manage to keep it secret after that, or were they once more found out?
I suppose the true question is how realistic are those promises?
No judgement intended!
Please support our advertisers:
I suppose it depends on the guy but the law of averages is not in your favour given the easy availability here in HK. If it's a one off, then maybe you should let it go. However, if it is regular it could lead to problems. The best way is to keep an eye on his finances and to do it in an unobstrusive way (which is not easy). Ultimately, it's the lady's decision. Is the partner/husband worth keeping inspite of his indiscretions?
Please support our advertisers:
interesting thread: 55 views and 1 response ;-)
Please support our advertisers:
Thank you for pointing that out: this fact (lack of replies) is indeed interesting to me.
This subject is merely inviting a reflexion mainly from men described above and those in similar men's little secrets.
The lack of reply (though I received pm's, which are equally welcome) IS indeed interesting, seeing the number of people potentially concerned by this question.
It does seem to tell a lot already.
Thanks Loyd Grossman for replying.
Please support our advertisers:
whats the saying....
a leopard and his spots?
i think thats enough said.
Please support our advertisers:
"My question is addressed to the men in that category, or to people who know of men in that category, who have promised their other half that they would never do it again. What happened next?"
One thing i can guarantee is that any man who has been found to consume (internet) porn, promised to never do it again because their partner cared (don't ask me why they would, but let's assume), etc., 99% for sure continues to do it but hides it better.
now i don't know the statistics around "happy endings" or full-fledged prostitution, but i am sure it's a lot lower. at the same time, it's also a question of the consequences. the higher the threatened consequence and likelihood to real application of that consequence, the lower the chance that the men will do it or do it again.
my gut feel (as with many things in life) is probably a 50-50
Please support our advertisers:
Thanks all.
I guess I didn't really intend to get "estimations";
my point was more to get one out of the reply of actual real life experiences, first hand or 2nd hand stories.
Is there any man here who feels upset to read about the leopard's spots, thinking: no, I am the living proof that once a user, forever stopped after being found out...
whether the promise got fulfilled or it didn't, i'm interested on individual experiences on the subject.
Please support our advertisers:
tpol
15 yrs ago
Do smokers who quit pick it up again sometimes later in life?
Please support our advertisers:
Of course some do.
And of course, it goes the same for unfaithful husbands.
Does it mean all/
Does it mean some?
Still interested in hearing people who can talk about their experience.
My instinct tells me that when a man promises not to do it again, based on shame, guilt, fear that I don't know, most of them probably mean it.
Who wants to tell me about what they did (or s.o they know) AFTER promising?
No one?
Please support our advertisers:
maxis
15 yrs ago
I think that if they can stop it, but only if certain reasons they want to.
It probably also depends on when they do it and why. For example, if it is when they are drunk or with particular friends, they would have to not place tghemselves in way of temptation even if they have good intentions.
Probably the hardest would be if their friends do it and consider it acceptable, they have to work out how to manage their relaitonship with their friends.
Also, if they "quit" they may never do it again, or they may do it after a long period of time, feel very guilty and never do it again after that.
"never" again is difficult,
"very infrequently" and then never again is a possibility.
Once a man acknowledges it is actually "cheating" to himself, then he may quit. Many guys who would never have an affair have/would may do it as they dont put it in the same category as cheating. However, again, if they can put it in the same category as cheating, then those guys may quit, perhaps for good.
I know it doesnt actually answer the original question though
Please support our advertisers:
Your favorite cowboy never uses prostitutes, but as a man I know a thing or two about my kind.
Let's begin with two considering the following:
He was doing something he liked, something he wanted, and something that required time, money, and definitely stealth. If he promised you not to do it again, if he felt embarrased, if he didn't like it...why did he do it before? In other words, he was forced to make that promise, either directly or by you crying, so I can pretty much guarantee he is not going to keep this promise.
Do you want him to never go with other women (hookers or otherwise) again? then try this: What is a hooker providing him that you don't? It can only be 2 things: Looks or services.
Either you have gained weight or otherwise became less attractive, or he likes to do some stuff that you refused, so he is getting serviced elsewhere.
It took me years to realize that we men are incredibly loyal...as long as all your kinks and needs are met. I have cheated in the past, and now I don't for a very simple reason: I clearly outline what I want out of a relationship, and if the person I am with can not provide it, there is always someone who can. With time in your hands you don't even need to pay any money (I've never paid for sex).
So, don't force him to make a promise he will break. Instead, find out what he likes, and do it or else get ready for him to keep cheating.
Please support our advertisers:
TXcowboy:
my point is not to get involved personally as this is not relevant.
"If he promised you not to do it again, if he felt embarrased, if he didn't like it...why did he do it before?"
This is the starting point of my putting the subject here, which tries to be only about what people have done to actually refrain from something that they were obviously allowing themselves to do UNTIL they got caught.
What did they do? Therapy? Not seeing some friends? Not drinking? Just going cold turkey? I have no idea...
I am less interested in why people do it, there are lots of advice and discussions here in other forums here on AXP on that subject. I actually think there are still many more reasons leading to it, but again, this is not what I'm trying to hear here.
I think I'm asking myself about the lack of direct responses here from people fitting this type of case (I assume that already many people having read the subject are directly or indirectly concerned by it but do not post.)
This tells a lot, but what exactly does it tell? (none have been able to fulfill their promises? I would still like to hear about that too)
Anyone interested to comment on why that might be? (open discussion)
Please support our advertisers:
Nobody fulfills a promise that he was coherced to do.
Please support our advertisers:
Agree with TXcowboy. An oath - not freely taken - is not an oath. Having said that, not really sure why you are posting this question; it's a bit like asking 'How many angels can fit on a pin-head?' If the guy has only done it once or twice, he probably won't do it again if he is really serious about his wife/partner. However, if it has become a habit then it will be much harder to stop. Also; if some of the ladies concerned conform more to his ideal of a woman than his current partner does, then it is also unlikely he will change. Too many variables but the odds of any man changing are not good. After all, why should he? He may be fed up of following rules and just wants to enjoy himself like in the Alan Silitoe (I think) play. "I'm just out to have good time. All the rest is propaganda."
Please support our advertisers:
TXcowboy:
I could answer to that: nobody is EVER forced to make promises. If they do, it's their sole responsibility, even if the lady (or man for other cheating cases) has been bullying them.
But again, this is not my point.
Loyd Grossman: we could discuss why this happens in the first place, or why they would want to keep their partner if the partner is so unfulfilling, unpleasant etc...
But again this is not my point.
As to why this question, because it came to my mind but this specific point never seems to be discussed in the threads unlike why/should people give another chance, etc...
So I posted the question in my mind to share it and to try to see what the answers might be. Trying to obtain answers on people's real individual experiences is intended to try and avoid common cliches. Even if people do it again, what would interest me is why? Surely many different reasons such as "initial good intention to break a pattern but turned out to be too hard" "ongoing unhappy relationship", "had no real intention from start anyway", "compelled", whatever.... I can't even imagine every potential individual reason, so this would be interesting.
A little disappointed so far, though I appreciate you people participitating anyway! :))
Please support our advertisers:
Ahacha. The only person who knows the answer is the individual concerned and there so many individuals that you would get all the answers you wanted. On average, they would continue to fool around as the majority of men like sleeping with women - and the more women they sleep with, the better it is for them. Perhaps I'm being a bit thick but I can't see what you're driving at.
Please support our advertisers:
"I can't see what you're driving at"
I guess that's the thing...
I was not trying to get anywhere in particular, I was trying to be embarked on people's personal experiences.
Maybe it didn't transfer clearly, maybe this subject is too sensitive, maybe people fear they're not anonymous enough here to comment on tha subject...
Please support our advertisers:
"nobody is EVER forced to make promises"
Boy are you naive...
Please support our advertisers:
I may be indeed, but on that one, I am not.
I know that men will generally be rather prompt to give you whatever they sense you want to hear, especially if they've got something to lose, including their ego.
But nonetheless, I find it coward or inappropiate to call it "being forced".
Unless a gun is pointed at their head, the reason is NOT that they have been forced.
That's putting the responsability of the lie on other than themselves (hence more cowardice)...but...who lies?
Semantic I guess was my point.
Anyway, this is all turning judgemental, the opposite of the initial i
ntention (that's where my naive side kicks in) so I'll leave it at that!
Thanks all!
Please support our advertisers:
"If he promised you not to do it again, if he felt embarrased, if he didn't like it...why did he do it before?"
I guess my question is...how would he feel embarrassed and know he didn't kind a like it if he didn't do it BEFORE all this self-realization shenanigans?
Please support our advertisers:
This discussion is incredibly... pointless.
If he did it before, especially habitually, chances are, that he saw nth wrong doing it. It may be sth against social norms, but hey, everybody does sth bad that they won't proudly admit to everyone.
Take smoking for example. People do quit successfully, but that is only a really tiny fraction of smokers. You can go out and ask smokers out there, I bet you 99% of them tried to quit before, but how long did they manage to stay clean?
To put it in a simple analogy, a criminal is caught red handed. Many of his kind would plead, saying that it's a "one off" thing, pledging never to do it again. But as you can see, most criminals commit crime on a recurring basis, especially sex crimes like rapists or molesters, it's in their blood.
I guess that answers your question. If you still wanna argue, you are either turning a blind eye to reality or you just wanna believe in what you wanna hear. A fairy tale is called a fairy tale for a reason coz it doesn't exist in the cruel reality. Somehow women just refuse to get smarter and believe that they are so special and got this magic in them that could change men. Geez.
Please support our advertisers:
"This discussion is incredibly... pointless".
It might be to you, not to me, maybe not to others. However it is obvious that it has gone AROUND rather than to the actual point which was, for the last time, I reiterate in simple words basically "tell us about your own experience on the matter".
"Somehow women just refuse to get smarter and believe that they are so special and got this magic in them that could change men. Geez."
What do you make of the men who are the ones initiating a change for themselves and seeking help for it?? It's not always as simplisitc as you seem to be thinking.
On another note, your "aggressivity" towards me (unfounded, I have remained objective not subjective here, and not personal) only tells me that there's something about me or my thread that makes you uncomfortable about yourself, hence the hostility (so I do not take it personally :)). Think about it......
Please support our advertisers:
Question though: what kind of changes are we talking about? I mean, I am a firm believer that certain basic personality traits are simply not negotiable when it comes to change. If someone is a type-A, angry SOB who always gets what he wants, its pretty tough for him to change into a type-B, lets-smoke-the-peace-pipe-and-become-vegans kinda guy.
If we are talking about something simple like a hairstyle or "lets be nice to waiters from now on", I can see someone changing. Maybe even the ol "I like to bang hookers" thing could change for someone awesome enough.
The reason that someone changes, like say, the alcoholic hopping on the wagon or erm...Tiger Woods going to sex rehab (I dunno which woman would want to take that guy back after 16 discovered holes, lord knows how many other there were!), is that they either genuinely think they have a problem and want to fix it...or more likely, they have external circumstances that prove beyond a doubt that they cannot continue living this way without severely losing the respect (or in Woods' case, endorsements) of those around them.
Change as in: be more thoughtful, clean up after yourself, wash the dishes twice a week, darn your own socks, yell at the kids less, its all possible...but these are just habits, not personality traits (except maybe the last one, who knows).
So really...what kind of change are we talking about?
And more importantly, is "aggressivity" really a word?
Please support our advertisers:
I read an article a number of years ago, the main points made were.
Some men (not all) will visit a prostitute once. Find it is not as thrilling/pleasant as they thought, and decide it is not really for them.
For others it is a cheap thrill, and one that can be put down easily.
For a very small number it becomes a regualr thing. Some get a thrill from the seediness. Others are sex addicts.
One thing I would like to point out. Comment was made about the intial lack of responses. This could indicate many things, including the idea that it is only a minority of expat men who are using the sex industry.
Please support our advertisers:
tpol
15 yrs ago
or tigerbay, they use them but have not been caught yet
Please support our advertisers:
or have been caught, made promises and didn't stick to them.
Please support our advertisers:
or have been caught, made promises, stick to them but don't know whether they will stick forever?
Please support our advertisers:
wouldn't those ones post a reply here, quite proudly?
Please support our advertisers:
Ahacha. So you are simply looking for on-line confessions? Why?
Please support our advertisers:
I know 2 guys who have been caught and who still go for their happy massages. Neither really wanted to reform and see it as completely separate to their marriage. They have a strong sense of entitlement as they work hard so think they should be allowed to play hard and the women just don't get it.
The trick is to go during work hours or lunch hour and go home to wifey straight after work and invite her to any evening functions.
Please support our advertisers:
"wouldn't those ones post a reply here, quite proudly?"
why put your neck into the wind if you don't know what the future holds?
Please support our advertisers:
Loyd Grossman: I hope this is not reprehensible, but yes, not necessarily first hand though. And not meant to be judgemental either. It's my way of getting a feeling about human being to know real stories rather than generalities. Just turns out that this was a subject easier to discuss anonymously I thought. Hope it answers your question.
Tinyteddy: thanks for your reply! And I have nothing bad to say about the guys you mentioned, as every realtionship story is unique and complex!
Please support our advertisers:
Here is my confession: I don't change. I won't change. I will never change.
In the other hand, I have experienced a growing process. Yesterday I would lie to get what I want. Today I will ask what I want up-front. Yesterday I would pretend to be serious. Today I show myself from the very first date. Yesterday I would date many girls at same time and deal with the consequences as they came. Today I date only one, but only for as long a she makes me happy.
I have learn one thing, though: As long as the woman I am with keeps me fully satisfied, as long as there are not sacrifices for me to do, or commitments to keep, or "we need to talk" chats, or pressures to get into marriages that were not my idea...I will be with her and I will be the most loyal man.
...and somehow I feel this applies for every single guy.
Please support our advertisers:
Okay, ahacha, here goes. Yesterday I went to a place where they pour custard down your Y-Fronts... I swore I'd never go again but I just don't seem to be able to get the monkey off my back. Apart from that, nothing new to report.
Please support our advertisers:
I have a friend, had a mistress. Late night outs 6 days a week.The affair went on for years and the wife eventually found out. Man swore it was over, but rumours of the affair didn't stop. Finally wife filed for divorce. Proceedings started, but just before they got divorced,they decided to give each other another chance. My friend, the man, was faithful from that day. Would take the wife wherever he traveled to and became the over devoted husband if there ever is such a thing.
So to answer the question, can a man genuinely change? Yes.
Please support our advertisers:
sicn
15 yrs ago
Ahacha,
In general, those men have to go through as much pain or more than the fun they've gained or in order for them to really want to change. That is human nature.
But if you want to do the soul searching inside their heads, only god knows.
Please support our advertisers:
I aliken it to a soldier making an emotional first kill then going down the path of a paid assasin feeling detached and normal about it.
Please support our advertisers:
Mike204, I don't mean to rain on your party, but I don't think the guy in your story really changed but he was simply old. You mentioned that he was having an affair "for years" so I take that, when he decided "to change", he was probably over 50...am I on the ballpark?
What really happened was that his libido changed and he found himself having 2 wives, instead of the ordinary wife and the exciting lover. He cut loses and play the good husband so he can have a quiet life in his golden years.
I wonder whether this would happen if he was in his 30s...yep, I didn't think so either.
And I agree with sicn, they end the affair when the fun is gone, but not because they "realized that what they did was wrong"...there is no realization, there is no learning, there is only pure and simple practicality.
Please support our advertisers:
Interesting topic. But what about those guys who find themselves divorced in middle age and due to the emotional & financial hit prefer to employ the services of hookers and massage girls? These guys have also experienced a genuine 'change' - albeit in the opposite direction - especially if they wee faithful before.
Frankly, such services may be quite valuable for a certain period of time to prevent a guy getting into another bad situation until he has completely recovered from his divorce.
I find it quite difficult to get a really good 'genuine' massage but at my age I find a good massage to be a good as it gets.
Please support our advertisers:
Txcowboy: My friend turned 43 two months ago. He married in his early twenties. It's just that he had the opportunity and the means to fool around and eventually got tired of it.
Please support our advertisers:
TXcowboy, your proud 'bang a ho, move on, band another ho' mission statement, besides being off topic and repetitive to readers of these boards, is not some magical formula you have devised yourself, it is 'Asia for Western Men 101'. Perhaps you have been a little slow on the uptake.
Please support our advertisers:
Tinyteddy, I have never being with a ho, sorry. I guess you mised my mission statement, so let me clarify it for you: "Be happy".
Please support our advertisers:
or perhaps "Be happy, at the expense of others".
Please support our advertisers:
Tiniteddy, do you mean "at others paying for dinners, others having to accept me even if I get fat, others having to pay if I get divorced and others keeping the kids by default if I get divorced"?
"Others" have a plan, I have a plan too. My plan is to enjoy life, but some other people plan to have a marriage and kids with "whoever fits the bill".
Please support our advertisers:
oh, the hurt someone else before they can hurt you plan. N-i-c-e.
Please support our advertisers:
< Back to main category
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail