Posted by
Slammy
15 yrs ago
He told you to quit your job - so you did, and now you regret that you lost your financial independence.
You need to have a good chat with your husband about his expectations, but perhaps the best way to open the conversation is to tell him that you are going to find a job again and go back to work. This way, he'll see you are making a concession and hopefully should not get defensive.
Perhaps he has become resentful, because he feels like he works all day long and you don't do anything and he has to pay. If it's true that he asked you to quit his job - then what was he expecting to happen?
Nevertheless the situation can be saved if you can both have a relaxed talk about your expectations. If, as it turns out, your husband feels a bit resentful, then perhaps you can think about returning to work and that may ease the situation because he'll feel you are contributing to household expenses.
BUT... what happens down the track, if and when you decide to start a family?
In my opinion, expenses should be shared - what's yours is his and vice-versa. My husband earns double, perhaps more, than my salary, but I own property. Even so, if I sell my property, the profits are ours. My husband bought a car but it's in my name because he was too busy to sort out the papers. It's all shared. I plan to take up to a year off work for my second child so for the first time in my life - I'll have no income. But my husband said he'll support me.
It seems like your husband had good intentions at the start - by telling you to quit your job. But he's obviously not comfortable about something now and the only way to find out what is by having a chat. But please don't approach this by saying "who's right" and "who's wrong". It seems like your post here is to find out from other people their opinions, to see if it supports your belief, so you can tell your husband you are "right"! You need to find a solution with your husband so you're both happy.
Good luck!
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It sounds like your husband is very selfish. I don't mean that from the point of view of the money itself, but rather he seems to think just about himself rather than considering your wellbeing also. I say this, because one possible reason that he will buy things you ask for (if he remembers) but not give you money is because he wants to control you. Maybe he is afraid that you will play around behind his back if you have this financial freedom. Obviously I don't know you two, and this is just speculation. But I think Slammy's advice is quite good - that you should consider finding yourself a job. This will give you financial independence and avoid him having ultimate control over you.
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KAT8
15 yrs ago
My understanding from reading the OP post is that she hasn't quit her job. And my advice is that she shouldn't. Marriage is a partnership, not a lord and slave relationship.
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sounds like he's holding you captive. it's never an equal relationship when you have to "ask" to have your needs met. he doesn't see you as equal, he sees you as a dependent.
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He cares about his money more than you and you care about his money more than your relationship. either one of you change, or the arguing will never end...
Since you can not change people, you can only change from you side at this point.
If you care more about your relationship instead of his money, then he will care about you more than his money. Then you will care about him more and more than his money, and he will care about you more and more than his money... ... ... ...
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funky toes, i get the sense that you are on to something, but it might be too late already. the way you argue, sounds really like an argument and not like a rational discussion. it seems indeed that you are looking for right and wrongs - as slammy pointed out.
i am also astonished that you did not clarify all these expectations before marriage? the way you write sounds as if you had some fixed expectations that would automatically come along with marriage without really checking with him about what his real expectations would be.
frankly, just by the tone of your post, i would suggest marriage counseling.
but even before that, ask him and yourself whether you really love each other and are willing to make this relationship work. it might already be too late and then any counseling or arrangement will not work anyway.
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Maybe I misunderstood. If you haven't quit your job, then what are you complaining about? What's this "we should have the right to spend the same amount every month"? Having money to cover daily expenses is one thing, but arguing over being able to spend the same amount as him, that seems rather petty. If he's willing to fork out for communal things that improve the household, in other word benefit the both of you, then what's your justification for asking for even more off him when you still have your own money to spend as you please?
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Well, in an ideal marriage, you would be doing those things together. From what you've said, it sounds like the two of you are living separate lives, and you want him to subsidise your lifestyle up to his standard. I don't think there's a right or wrong here, but as you seem to realise yourself, there's a fundamental lack of compatibility.
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Funky Toes - my husband earns more than me so he contributes more than me to our joint account. He understands that I'm putting in the maximum that I can, and never suggests I find a better job etc etc.
It does sound unfair, but like other people have pointed out - if you're incompatible, what can you do?
You can push ahead with counselling but he must go with you. Once you get there, hopefully the counsellor can talk some sense into him that problems in marriage are never just the fault of one person.
For him to say he wants to trap you in a loveless marriage - that sounds very mean. In that case, consult a divorce lawyer and see how much you can get out of him!!!
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Still i feel he doesn't care about you very much... you don't have a wrong idea about marriage, but you chose a wrong man to marry.
A real man who cares about you will buy you the 1st class ticket and he stay in 2nd class if he doesn't have enough money to buy both of you the 1st class tickets. He will leave the last piece of bread for you and go out to find another piece of bread...
But why he doesn't care about you, i don't know very clearly, maybe there are some other problems you didn't mentione here ... Maybe its because the way you talk to him about money makes him not comfortable, he feels the purpose you marry him is to improve your life standard (although it is not your intention) and he felt be used.
That's why i suggest you to change attitude. Don't talk about money , Talk about whatever to make him happy, delighted, release pressure from work etc... If you care about him sincerely he will care you back, after all you have been together for more than 6 years.
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"that it is my problem alone and that everything is my fault"
that sounds very bad from him...
"we had these issues before we married and when we talked I realise now that he meant one thing and I had a different idea about what he said"
ok you were stupid indeed (or at least a bit careless). so part of the blame for incompatibility lies with you.
"I suggested putting in an equal percentage" sounds like a fair solution for unequal partners. his behavior is really selfish.
"Anyway, I just wanted to check whether I really was being unreasonable as he says I am. What a mess. But I see that it's very clear that we are just incompatible and that its too late."
true this is a mess. my advice, give it one single last chance by telling him clearly that either
a) you and him go to counseling together with him being willing to save the relationship, or
b) divorce
i think you must make it this drastic else he will not come to his senses about what a relationship is really all about. he seems like a selfish guy who just wants a wife as a trophy.
before you do above though, do the following:
- consult a divorce lawyer to know your rights upon a divorce (including what you could get financially out of it)
- secondly, DO NOT follow what the lawyer suggests. rather, sit down (maybe with you best friend/family or something, and work out what you think is a fair solution from your point of view. what you could get from him is sometimes more than what is fair, but i suggest you keep your conscience clean and negotiate your way out of this rather than go through a messy divorce (which is very expensive, hence the lawyer will advise FOR it)
- worst case, be prepared to walk away with nothing more than you came in (even though you might have made sacrifices to support him in his big paying job). if you go for divorce, try to get it over as quick as possible (regardless of the impact).
what you need is your own happy life, not his money or support
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I would wake up and smell the coffee. This guy is one selfish a**. He clearly feels nothing for you and is concentrating on having a good time himself at your expense. Many people I know have non-working spouses and that is not an issue for them. I would bet that the spouse spends more money than the working partner given the fact that kids are involved. I have never had an issue with anything that my wife spends and we have always had a joint account. Why wait for him to serve divorce papers - do it yourself. You will be entitled to 50% of his assets - that might wake him up a little.
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tpol
15 yrs ago
"but after I booked it he sent me an abusive email again saying how it was my problem and that he just wanted the counsellor to talk sense into me.
Everything is always all my fault"
I think that says it all. There's no point staying in this relationship. Take the advice above regarding divorce lawyers.
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I think tpol is right on the money. No matter his reasons, NEVER tolerate abuse from anyone. It will only become worst.
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"Thank you all once again. I already feel stronger and more optimistic about the future. I'm glad to hear that i'm not completely wrong in my thinking...just maybe have to change the way I approach discussions with him, if it's not too late. "
With regards to your latest post:
Great to hear you want to try and patch things up. It's easy for people on this forum to jump to conclusions because you're husband said some horrible things. But we all say horrible things in the heat of the moment, and we don't know what you've said to your husband.
Best way to approach a discussion is always try to put yourself in your husband's shoes. You said you were relieved from hearing our comments, proving that you weren't completely wrong in your thinking.
To play devil's advocate - do you think that perhaps you were too focussed on everything being split 50-50? This, to you, is proof of his love and trust?
By being so focussed on this point, you may have driven a wedge between the two of you - when he had good intentions at the start, and is now just worried that you're after his money?
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Simply getting married is no guarantee that insecurities magically disappear. It still takes time to build up trust on both sides.
When I first married, we both had insecurities - especially when it came to setting up a joint account and who should contribute what. Having open discussions about how we felt was very helpful. And after the passage of time - we've been married three years now - I think we've reached that stage of total trust.
By the passage of time I mean... just because someone says something, doesn't mean you can trust them. You need to see the words in action.
By the way - do you have a job? We're not clear on this point.
And if you have a job - then why do you want a credit card from your husband?
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Your husband has succeeded in keeping you financially and emotionally dependent on him, and is effectively stripping you of your self-esteem and rights in the marriage. This sounds like a recipe for disaster. You really do need to set up a financial situation where you do not pay for the expenses, but pay part of the mortgage and deposit. Write down a detailed history of the relationship and take it to an equities lawyer. He/she will let you know possible scenarios if this should go b** up, and what you might do to try to get things back on an even keel.
In a divorce, a husband who asks his wife to leave her job for the marriage is usually asked to pay compensation to the wife for lost earnings and lost career options. And why shouldn't he?
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sicn
15 yrs ago
Funky Toe,
Your husband sounds unreasonable and impossible. I also sense your anger. It is not a bad idea to get your rights presented to him in a form of legal paper. But on-going marriage counceling I think is still a better option than legal one.
One question: if he was the way he is now, why did you stay in the relationship for so long and eventually married him?
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Oh dear. Sounds like an impossible situation. My husband and I have always shared a joint account and we discuss any big purchases with each other. We both work and also have a joint saving scheme for our future. Saying that, I do know quite a few of my Asian lady friends, some work, some don't, that have credit cards linked to their husbands accounts and/or their husbands give them a lump sum every month. I thought this was a common practice in Asia.
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sorry to hear about your predicament Funky Toes. Hope your discussion goes well. My parents used to argue about money all the time when I was growing up. it never changed at the end and it made everyone's life a living hell. If you dont see eye to eye on some basic money matters, it's an uphill task all the way. I'm not sure if having enough love for someone can even carry one through all that.
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I disagree. Different strokes for different folks as they say... for some families, perhaps many, there's no problem to put all finances into the one pot. Never say Never! It's all about expectations and communication and trust and can work well for some.
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waiso
15 yrs ago
Sounds like you got the short end of the stick. If he told you not to work then he should allow you the financial freedom that you had prior to not working. A monthly "allowance" (I don't like that term) should be given so you can buy groceries, pay bills, etc. where you monitor your own spending. It seems like he wants "control" over you financially and you are in a bad situation. As a man, I can only see this as a Win-Lose situation. the latter being you. Put your foot down and get this resolved asap cause it won't get any better given what you've said.
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We want to control money, but unfortunately we were controled by money most time. both men and women... actually only when you are not controled by money, can you find your real love (the one you really care about and also really care about you). Many people can not understand this all their lives. Its pity...
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i honestly do no see the point why you would command to spend the same amount of money monthly, nor the argument for that, - why? Just because he takes the first class so that you have to? he earned it, he makes more money probably he invested on reaching to that level. Marriage does not automatically give you right to enjoy a life style that you yourself can not afford. Different would be HE himself wants that to happen. Your demanding does not look overly grounded. And again, i am female. Asian.
i have always independent finance and even if i did not have what i have now, i would not expect that from anyone, including /especially the husband. Not about entitlement, but backbone.
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so i think i have to say, yes, you do have wrong idea about marriage.
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This is very suspicious. I can't understand why the husband won't share his financial details with his wife unless 1) he has a mistress and wants to keep it quiet 2) his wife is a spendthrift 3) he has some financial problems he wants to hide 4) he is insecure in the relationship (perhaps the wife is much better looking and younger) and fears a divorce. By the way, do you have a maid? Who pays for the household stuff?
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He sounds like a right B@&#@%d .... is this a true case ? if so, I would advise you to get out of this abusive relationship now.
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Hi there. It looks like this discussion has been going on for a while but I just had to post my comment as my husband is exactly like this guy. It is a total dejevu for me. Anyway, he is now divorcing me to "save money" and it is getting really ugly. I am not saying the same will happen to you but still suggest you that you take appropriate action as ASAP as there is no point in staying such a situation!
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If you don't like it... GET A JOB!
I've had a job since I was 14 and I have absolutely no respect for you lazy women who are happy to have a man take care of you.
Have you never heard of feminism?!
What sort of role model are you for your children? Your sons will think women are worthless and your daughters will have no ambition.
You should be absolutely ashamed of the way you live.
I am not jealous, I am happy working for everything I have. My fiance and I share everything, we have a joint account and we both have access to it. Mutual work leads to mutual respect. If you were my wife I wouldn't give you anything either, because you don't do anything.
What a waste of a life.
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Wow pupmonkey, would love to have a face to face conversation with you when you have young children! Any women who doesn't honour the work of raising a family and thinks a women has to work to show her kids she has worth is sadly missing out on true fulfillment.
I have kids and work, but it's not ideal, and it's not role modelling for my kids.
This girl writing the OP obviously is in an out of balance unhealthy relationship. Women and Men are equal in worth, they don't need to be contributing equal amounts in finances. worth is nothing to do with finances....Worth is our value as a human being, and give and take is so beautiful and precious and necessary to weather the storms of life together in marraige.
Without love and respect you can't build a home......not one that you would bring kids into to learn about life.
Feminism is not about finances, it's about having the choice! Some women love to work and choose not to have kids, some like me do both, some choose to love and nurture their husbands and kids because that is what they are best at. Let's celebrate women not tear them down, especially when this girl obviously has a man doing that to her already.
I don't understand the marraiges I have seen here in the Chinese community amongst my friends, they are definitely different than what I believe to be normal, but I can't judge them as I don't understand the cultural expectations on marraige.
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I may possibly have gone off on one. You're right, she's not happy as it is and criticising her for choosing not to contribute to the home is not the way to help.
However, it is a simple solution to her problem. She wants money she could do it the way we all have to do it and get a job.
And although I don't yet have any children myself, my mum worked two jobs with three children under five. This is what I grew up with.
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Hey PupMonkey, you did go off on one. (Made fun reading though!)
You did seem to miss one crucial part of the OP's post "I am also bewildered as to why he won't do this because he told me that I could quit my job and didn't have to work".
So the OP is either working, or was working, but either way her husband says she doesn't need to bring in an income, yet on the other hand won't support her financially.
She should get away from this boorish loser ASAP. Sounds to me like he just wants her as arm-candy.
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Any other country I would completely accept what you say, but in Hong Kong where you have maids to do all the chores for you I just can't see a reason for a woman to stay at home.
And if it really is choice like you say, why isn't it the man who's staying at home? Why doesn't the husband have that same choice.
Look, if my fella said I could stop working if I wanted to, first I'd see that as he doesn't think my career is as important as his and therefore he doesn't think my contribution is as valuable as his. Basically I'd tell him to get stuffed.
You're right, I don't have kids. I can't predict how I'll feel about it when I do, but at the moment I feel that I am a woman because the girl sperm swam faster than the boy sperm. A dog can be a mother, a fish can be a mother, a mother is what you are because you're female. I want to be more than just a mother.
My parents would be very disappointed if I stayed at home with my kids past school age. They paid for my education so that I could be as successful by myself as much as I possibly can be.
I know it annoys you, but I honestly feel it's a waste of a life to just stay at home with kids. Especially in a country where you have a maid to take care of your home.
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Many people have written good responses for the OP. My opinion is the same as many others': He doesn't seem to care much about you. He wants to be married without any of the obligations that should go with it. Divorce. Move on.
Now on to pupmonkey: Where to begin? Most stay at home mothers I know work pretty darned hard, helper or not. Taking care of the home and kids is more than a full time occupation. I would never call a housewife lazy by default.
pupmonkey said: "I've had a job since I was 14 and I have absolutely no respect for you lazy women who are happy to have a man take care of you.
Have you never heard of feminism?! "
You seem to misunderstand healthy relationships. It's not about one taking care of the other. It is not a competition. There should be no secrets, vengeance, pettiness or slights. Healthy relationships are the sanctuary we have from those things. It is about living together in a form that works for both. This can mean one working or both working. As long as both understand the situation and respect each other it tends to work out ok.
As for feminism, you don't understand that either. It's not about having as much power as men, it is about being able to choose what to do instead of being forced into being something based on sex. You made your choice. Now let other women make theirs.
pupmonkey said: "And if it really is choice like you say, why isn't it the man who's staying at home? Why doesn't the husband have that same choice."
I am a stay at home dad. My wife and I made this choice which you say doesn't exist. Works for some, not for others, just like some women want to stay at home and some don't.
pupmonkey said: "My parents would be very disappointed if I stayed at home with my kids past school age."
So? Let them. It's your life, not theirs.
pupmonkey said: "I know it annoys you, but I honestly feel it's a waste of a life to just stay at home with kids. Especially in a country where you have a maid to take care of your home."
I sincerely hope you never have kids. You don't have to stay at home with them, but it seems you see them only as objects that require care, like a car, as opposed to human beings that require love and attention.
pupmonkey said: "I am happy working for everything I have. My fiance and I share everything, we have a joint account and we both have access to it. Mutual work leads to mutual respect. If you were my wife I wouldn't give you anything either, because you don't do anything."
Marriage is not about who works and how much. It is about being together and loving each other.
mumof2boys said: "I have kids and work, but it's not ideal, and it's not role modelling for my kids."
Don't sell yourself short. You can be a great role model even if you are working.
mbbcat said: "NEVER EVER mix money & relationships - it is a recipe from hell & will lead nowhere good
Instead each have & control your own finances & contribute equally to a household account that you share purely for shared expenses, food, rent, holidays etc."
I disagree. While your model would work partners with similar incomes, it doesn't work well for others. For example what if only one partner works? Does that partner get no spending money of his/her own? What if one partner makes only a fraction of what the other one does. Does the higher earner get to buy lots of nice stuff while the lower earner does not? Now THAT sounds like a recipe for disaster. My wife and I have all the money in common. It has worked fine for ten years. As long as both are honest and respectful there are few real problems.
evianjune said: "Marriage does not automatically give you right to enjoy a life style that you yourself can not afford."
I disagree. Marriage is a partnership. It is about being TOGETHER. If a rich guy marries a woman with no income, is it not expected that she should enjoy his lifestyle as well?
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TOTALLY AGREE WITH AXPTGUY! :-)
Plus, I would like to point out to others on the forum that we've only made the "assumption" that Funky Toes is not working. This has not been confirmed, and she doesn't have to confirm it either. We just wish her luck with her predicament.
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