Posted by
Darren_D
15 yrs ago
In many ways i should feel like the happiest man alive unfortunately i don't. and i'm starting to worry about my mood.
I met my wife 5 years ago in Shanghai, she's local and i'm foreign I just started working as an interviewer for a swiss consulting company and she was an mid-level manager in an american company.
few months later we both switched jobs and were certain that's what we wanted. i became a commission only consultant for a financial advisory company and she moved to an even bigger, well paid position in an american company.
life's good, we are really the new rich in Shanghai and almost nothing seems out of reach for us here in shanghai.
well here's the thing the commission only job seems a lot harder than anticipated.it's just one of the toughest job out there and you can't rely on it to build a descent life. which means most of the time our expenses are made by my girl, luxury life, trips, shopping and she never seems to run out of money.
let me fast forward, we got married,we bought 1 million dollar apartment in Shanghai, a brand new Audi Q7, and all this made me very very depressed because it's all her money. ( i proposed though with a ring i bought with my money..just to clear that part )
she makes most of the payments on both the house or the car and my contribution is only in an ad-hoc basis.
I still earn money, on average $3000 per month but it comes every 3 to 4 months due to the nature of my job.she's thinks it's okay but i seriously don't.
I love my wife and she loves me and we're really happy. we have good friends who view us as models but i feel awful because I've been trying to find a new job since mid-last year while keeping my current job but with no luck.
my wife says it doesn't matter if i can't find a better job as she can sustain us forever, our house value has almost doubled...but in all honesty i hate not earning enough and occasionally i pick up these bad moods and try to pick a fight unnecessarily.
I hate commission only jobs and I need a stable income. i want to make my wife happier than she is now. i want to book surprise trips for us without her knowing, i want to buy her gifts without her knowing and right now all seems impossible. because we share one credit card under her name.
I need a stable job guys, 2000 to 3000 USD a month ( paid monthly) in shanghai, beijing, HK, shenzhen or where ever. i'm 33, 8 years working experience in total mostly in call center management and financial consulting, accounting degree holder. smart and serious.
it seems like a lovely problem, but trust me it's not. from day one she's been spending more than i do.
I may not be able to catch her up in terms of spending but i would love to do my fair share more than i'm currently doing.
Thanks for your time.
D.
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If I were you I'd 1) work out a lot and 2) keep trying to build up your business. Don't let this problem distract you. Well-paid jobs come and go.
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is this a rant or a question?
if question, what is the actual question?
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no worry much, my friend works in BOA, and her bf ears far less than her, they are still happily togther.
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you feel uneasy with the family situation since you use salary as the only indicator of success, then you make yourself feel like a loser with no input to the family.
If you can't alter this stupid thinking, then for the time being just need to find a way to make yourself feel less guilty or inferior. Find a niche that you're good at while your wife maybe not too strong - cooking, fixing the house, good sex, giving massage, anything that you feel confident with doing, or pick one to start learning if there's none. Remember the real problem only begins when a woman feels her husband totally losing self-confidence in himself.
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I am in a similar position. It is all about perceptions. The perceptions of you and your wife and the only ones that count. You need to find a way of looking at things and contributing in other (non-financial) ways.
I have also sent you a message, pls check your mail box.
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My man, sorry for being blunt but I am your same age, 33, and in Shanghai you should be making $3k USD before having breakfast.
I came here without an expat package, I still do, but I left the $10k/month USD mark behind me a couple of years ago. My job is not that good, actually, but it gives me plenty of time to play golf and do other stuff. Very relaxing. By the way, I AM in Shanghai, just like you.
I'd say that if you are smart in a middle management position you should be making at the very very least US$10k/month, of course with apartment and food allowance. I don't know a single manager in my company who makes less than that.
Shanghai is a very strange city. You get people making 10k RMB/month and $10k USD / month on the very same job...I guess people need better self-marketing skills.
Good luck!
Cowboy.
PS: Note for all readers: I don't recommend people. If you can't make it yourself you are not good enough.
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Aha, though I can't figure out what advice was exactly Cowboy offering, but I tend to agree Shanghai is the place around the world offering the most opportunities, so keep looking and you'll find one. Perhaps you should also seek professional help from personnel agency?
I'll be visiting Shanghai in June, it's been 7 years or so since my last visit. It's must be another world now.
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Its all depends on what kind of life you want.
For sure the one who make more money will be at the dominate side.
If you want to change the situation, then look for opportunities make more money.
If you want to take a easy life you just need to sit back... And i don't see the second choice is anything wrong.
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My point is, unless you are one of those "English teachers", any serious job in Shanghai pays way more than US$3k/month. Shanghai is exploding. I even rejected two managerial job offers in the last 3 weeks.
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So where do they advertise these "serious jobs"?
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In the past, it may be a big issue as the husband would be looked down by the wife's side of the family even though the wife did not mind but nowadays, it has changed... a marriage as a whole (money, chores, decision etc. etc.) should be shared between the 2 consenting parties as long as it works for them. So O.P., you must overcome this guilt or else it will eat at you and may ruin your marriage to such a good wife and who knows, one day you may become the main bread earner when your wife gets pregnant - life changes - nothing remains good or bad forever - just try your best. Look at the stay-at-home dads who earn nothing but they do their duty in other ways and their marriages survive.
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You wanna treat your wife?
Why do you need money for that???
Like it's been suggested on this forum already, cook her dinner, give her a lovely foot massage after work one day, pack a picnic and go to a lovely park somewhere and make it romantic. You wanna treat your wife - then get creative and think of ways to do it without money.
And in the meantime, get over your hang up about not earning as much as your wife does. She doesn't have a problem with it, so neither should you.
As long as you're not behaving like a leech and are spending sensibly - why should she have any complaints?
From her point of view, she's probably very happy because she's got a great job, is financially secure and independent... and has a great husband by her side.
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Thank you all for the input, to be honest i feel a lot better and feel very inspired to what i can do to make things even better.
Cheers!!
D
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Darren,
Please get over it, go and see a shrink for a couple of sessions if you need to in order to do that.
I come from a family who are rather well off and I have a nice big trust fund (which I try not to let people know in real life!) anyway, those facts combined with my very good job, make it hell trying to find a guy!! I don't care about money - I don't need to!! I don't have a luxurious lifestyle, I enjoy my money but just on things which matter to me, so I don't rub it in guys faces or anything! I have been in two relationships where the guy was insecure about his finacial role to the point that, his issues with his financial contributions were the reasons we broke up. I personally thought they both had pretty good carrers, while not startling, and in the rest of their lives I thought they were superb! Such a shame.
As long as your wife can see that you aren't using her for her money, and that you are pursing a carreer - or trying to change to one - which makes you happy... then don't worry about the money!
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I understand Darrend_D. This is a "guy" thing. Is not about making "more" than the wife, but about making a "real" salary.
If I was in my 30s and I was making USD$3k, I don't think I could sleep at night...
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Notice that the men are saying one thing and the women are saying another? :-) What does that tell you?
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Another possibility is... sorry if i am too blunt...
actually, this life is just what you want or what you expect (to take a easy life in your wife's shadow) from very beginning. and now you have it, but you feel a little bit uncomfortable so you need some support to make you feel better. and actually you don't have any problem at all...
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TXcowboy, yes well you may earn more than Darren but I can tell you for sure any day of the week I would rather be in a relationship with him than you! I imagine to many of us, if we had to live your life that would be reason enough to cause us not to sleep at night! I am constantly amazed by your posts at your confidence to be able speak on behalf of all men. It must be nice to be totally omniscient.
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Agree with Ziggity's comment on TXCowboy. Darren came here for advice, and you continually tell him how he should feel insufficient (and boast of your hefty salary). I too have a nice salary - as I'm sure many people here do. Yet, your the only one shouting about it....
The guy is looking for advice and support - not that he should be making his current salary before breakfast. Classy.
PS- I cannot imagine who would want a recommendation from you...
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???? How come someone came under fire suddenly???
I would say Cowboy and Darren_Dare just representing two types of men. One apparently is overconfident to look down on almost everyone and everything, while another just lacks confidence thus created unnecessasry doubts in himself and in the marriage. For discussion sake, I would make an opposite choice to ziggity's in seeking a relationship, and would go for a stronger one. (though have to declare that I don't want to involve in any relationship now). Because I'd feel very bad if I know my husband would feel insecure when I am over him just in financial contribution to the family, because it probably means he gauges the meaning of marriage by money, but not by love and faith.
No right or wrong towards different human characters. And I believe anyone here in this forum has the right to free expresion, regardless how irrelevant and unkind his words may be given, up to you to ignore it, but should by no means be blamed personally.
D, stop worrying, you have a great value to many people around you and those who care.
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Dear Darren,
let me tell you that I strongly envy you, though I may imagine what your issues are.
You may feel like a loser but let me tell you that you are the ultimate winner: what a hotshot you must be, such that your wife even doesn't care about your income and is generously paying the bills. Even in Europe this would be difficult to find, getting an Asian woman to pay the bills is even more out of reach and having a Shanghai lady do it sounds like the ultimate beyond the stars thing that probably only few men on this planet can claim to have been capable of.
However, I also understand your issue: everybody needs and wants a rewarding activity and your current one does not seem to be rewarding at all. BUT: your absolutely amazing once-in-a-lifetime opportunity is that you can do something that does not have to be necessarily rewarding FINANCIALLY, but potentially otherwise. And these other rewards are usually so much more satisfying on the long run than money.
Just to give you a few ideas:
- create that company you were always dreaming about but were afraid to pursue because it has so nothing to do with your current activity
- social work can be incredibly rewarding
- work for a low salary at the chamber of commerce between your country of origin and Shanghai, create connections (that maybe your wife can use as well)
- learn Mandarin
- learn to play that instrument you always wanted to play
- improve your cooking skills to excellence, reward your wife and guests and get the applause
- go back to university and learn what you always wanted to learn
- realise your dreams, you don't need to care about the money
Damn, I would have so many ideas of what to do in your situation. Whatever it is, do what your true passion is. Unlike most people you have the opportunity to actually do what makes you happy. If you take the courage to do it, then you will be so satisfied that you will just look down on all these beyond 10k guys who do a stressful but finally meaningless job and are the slaves of their monthly salary (just like myself).
Also, talk with your wife about it. Tell her that you want your own account with some monthly cash so you can surprise her and buy your personal stuff. Learn some massage techniques, pamper her into oblivion from time to time, make her even more addicted to you than she apparently already is. :-)
Congratulations Daren, you got the jackpot! You're out of the money wheel and can realise your dreams.
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Darren.. man up and quit whining on a friggin chat board... get done what you know inside needs to be done. Cowgirl, you are nothing but bullshit up to your eyeballs... thanks for reading!
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Here's a perspective from someone in a similar situation. Except that in my case, I don't even make 3k/month. I'm effectively retired in my mid-30s and have been so for years.
IMO, many men value their self-worth by their jobs or incomes. And while most would deny it, I think that many of these men have low self-esteem and low self-confidence (despite what appears to be a large ego). If you are going to be happy, Darren, you will need to 1) address and overcome any insecurities that you have and 2) find a way to contribute to the relationship.
Issue 1: Some men are trapped in the work=worth mentality. If you cannot extricate yourself from this foolish perspective, then I suspect you will have continuing difficulties in your relationship. One way to overcome this challenge is to find a meaningful way to contribute (see below) but THIS WILL ONLY WORK INSOFAR AS YOU OVERCOME YOUR INSECURITY AND SELF-WORTH ISSUES.
Issue 2: Finding a way to contribute is easier than you think. I manage the house, renovation projects, all the finances, bills, and taxes, give her advice on work, and even help with her work at times (draft emails, edit, etc.) In large part, her success is based on the support I give her. You could say that I am a personal assistant. Now for some men, this role may seem demeaning, but this is where your attitude and confidence kick in. You may find a way to contribute that is not monetary, but can your ego handle it?
There is one more issue to consider. Your wife will eventually have bad days at work. She may get depressed, moody, even have a mid-life crisis. Be prepared for some nasty comments that hurt a lot more than she might realize such as "why don't you get a real job?" etc. If she is otherwise ok with the situation, you may encounter such comments only rarely. But be ready for it mentally and psychologically because if you aren't prepared, it will hurt and you will most likely retaliate with more nastiness.
One other tip: find a meaningful hobby. Money isnt the only thing women respect. If you are very good at anything, it is often enough to make up for your lack of financial contribution. Golf, photography, cooking, sailing, writing a book, etc. As long as your wife has some reason to respect you (and as long as you have the self-confidence you need), your financial circumstances should be no cause for marital problems.
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"You may feel like a loser but let me tell you that you are the ultimate winner: what a hotshot you must be, such that your wife even doesn't care about your income and is generously paying the bills. "
Maybe we still remember Sex and City, Do you think people will take the bartender more serious just because he married a lawyer.
Or maybe we still think the playboy Mr.Big is more like a winner !?
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errrr that will cheer him up!
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I'd say grow a set. Seriously, if it is a real relationship it won't be based on money. And My Hong Kong - stay out of a relationship, they don't suit you. You felt ashamed. Purleeze. What's the big deal.
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get a grip! tommyknocker and others are right! your wife works and makes enough to support you both very comfortably, you have a unique chance to pursue something you really love to do. and you whine about it? how many of the rest of us have that chance, with little to no risk?!
who cares how much you make?
if you love what you do then you should both be happier for it. if you don't love what you do, find something.
if she doesn't love you for that find a new wife.
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Darren_D - take it easy. As a guy who has been taken to the proverbial cleaners by his ex and pays a fortune in alimony payments every month to an ex-wife who refuses to work I think your situation is pretty good.
Just look at what you have written in your first post. Excuse me for cutting and pasting it here but I want you to relect on your own words:
>>I love my wife and she loves me and we're really happy. My wife says it doesn't matter if i can't find a better job as she can sustain us forever, our house value has almost doubled<<.
Man, what more do you want? You've hit the jackpot. A wife who loves you and who tells you it doesn't matter how much you are earning. How many guys are stuck in loveless marriages and don't or cannot walk away because of the financial hit they will take? The answer to that is many - all around the world. You don't know how lucky you are, my friend.
For your own sake, please lighten up and enjoy life and your seemingly wonderful relationship with this woman.
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@My Hong Kong: would you have minded, if he had turned successfully into a non commercial activity, such as become a great sportsman or do something in politics or social organisations? Is it truly the money are just that he turned lazy and inactive?
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sicn
15 yrs ago
Darren D,
Most of our cups are 50% full. And yours is 1% empty.
That's how I see your case.
You ask how to get 100% full. Dont we all want to know?
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@My Hong Kong - seriously, don't you think that the vast majority of relationships work like this. I am the only working partner in my relationship and I have more kids than you. Does that make me love my partner less? Of course not, more because she is raising our kids in the way we want it to happen - with one parent at home to guide and love. This is worth way more than some pay check.
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The difference is that Tommyknocker is a man and My Hong Kong is a woman. Call me old-fashioned, but either the man works to raise his family or both earn a living and contribute, even if it's a smaller share like what Darren D is doing and I think it's perfectly OK if his better-half doesn't mind.
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you might look into medical enhancement surgery to give you more self-confidence
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Well we will have to agree to disagree. You said you dumped him because you were ashamed he had no career. I'd happily raise the children myself if the situation was reversed and I am sure my partner wouldn't dump me at a party because I was unemployed.
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My question is, what are you going to do about it? You don't like that she earns more, what are you going to do? Ask her to quit her job? I very much doubt it.
Get over it.
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