Posted by
chowd
14 yrs ago
A friend recently confided in me that his wife has decided she no longer wants to work. They're not that well off and his income won't permit the lifestyle they're use to. I had no idea what to tell him. Any suggestions?
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maybe you can tell him you don't know then
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chowd
14 yrs ago
...that's not really going to help him out.
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chowd
14 yrs ago
I want to help, i don't want to see my friend struggling to get by because his wife wants the lifestyle her friends have, lunching and going for foot massages every other day.
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it is a woman's right to choose that, he should support her
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Chowd
As much as you want to help, it would be wrong to 'interfere'. It is for your friend and his wife to sort out. The things you can do is to tell your mate you sympathize, and to tell him that he really needs to talk to her about the issue.
If they really cannot afford that lifestyle, then it is perhaps not his wife's right to choose it. The reality is that as a couple you need to live within your means. If one person is sucking up the majority of any disposable income for themselves, there is a real issue there.
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I think that when people are in a relationship they should discuss with their partner issues that have an impact on the relationship. Not wanting to work can have an impact on lifestyle and living conditions. Also, if the couple does not have children, the men might feel that he contributes to the relationships more than the wife. On top of that, if the husband is not particularly wealthy, he might feel worried and stressed that the financial responsibility is entirely on him.
So all in all there are lots of factors to consider and I would also leave this issue for the couple to discuss and sort out.
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chowd
14 yrs ago
They've talked and she's going to make cut backs in her luxuries. I know it's not my place to say really, but i feel sorry for the guy! He works so hard as it is already, and i now that this will stress him out, wouldn't anybody be? What happened to men's rights anyway?!!?
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MJ1
14 yrs ago
Tell your friend to grow some balls and put his wife back in her place. If she doesn't want to work, she can also live without her luxuries...
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My own personal experience when having problem or faced with difficult decisions is that I do not necessarily friends to "give me" solutions for the problem. Such solutions are not mine. I need to find my own solutions. My need in fact is to share and for someone to really and actively listen to me. And the best way to listen is to forget about your own solutions and rather help your friend to think and explore. Ask him questions. That will help him think about new approaches and angles to the problem that he has never even considered.
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My mum had two jobs and three children under five, I have absolutely no respect for women who chose not to work - other than your usual maternity leave.
This might be controversial but you could ask your friend to talk to his wife and express how he feels about her not working. Maybe if he did something crazy like tell her his concerns she might understand and continue to work. Instead of being a lazy mare.
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@p.mason - no just messing.
I am 100% with Mateia, sympathise but stay out of it. Or introduce her to PupMonkey's ma for a reality check.
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sicn
14 yrs ago
It is really not your business unless she is YOUR wife.
It is not nice for your friend to complain about his wife to other people instead of solving the problem privately with his wife.
One of the most important factors to keep a healthy marriage: never complain about your spouse to other people around you.
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Well, then I hope they dont have a domestic helper! If she wants to stay at home that's cool, but she can cook clean...reminds me of a little something...
What does Wife stand for?
Washing
Ironing
F***ing
Etc
Seriously though, what is she gonna do, sit on her bum all day and twiddle her thumbs? It may be cool if she wanted to start a home based business.
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I'd say, don't get involved.
You say that they are not that well off. However, how "well off" a person is is very subjective. Someone with a family income of $25k will feel a family income of HK$50k a luxury. Whereas someone with a family income of $100k will say a HK$50k income as meagre.
It is up to the couple to decide if her decision to stay home is workable. Lots of mothers feel guilty that they are not there for their kids and spend all their time working. Perhaps his wife had an absent mother during her childhood and would want it differently for her kids? Or perhaps her priority is their kids and she wants time with them rather than letting a helper bring up the kids? Or perhaps they don't have kids and her decision is based upon them wanting to have kids and being there for them?
Women are being told they are bad mothers when they go off working and let helpers bring up the kids. Now women are being told off because they don't want to work.
She may have her reasons as well for not wanting to work.
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merm
14 yrs ago
chowd why would you be bothered? They'll find out soon enough if they'll be able to afford the lifestyle however it is. If she thinks it'll be ok, apart from her daydreams, has the husband been exaggerating his income? Some business people like to project a mirage.
Is she going to be a housewife to take care of kids? I'm actually for one parent to work max part time so as to spend more time with the kids. Parenting you know. If the parent is a good with kids of course.
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Give her an allowance like every tai tai and see if she can survive on that.
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sicn
14 yrs ago
First of all, I don’t understand why this post even exists at the first place. Whether the wife wants to work or not, whether her husband can afford it or not, it is purely within the scope of that particular family’s discuss. If the family really needs a double income to survive, I wouldn’t think any loving wife or mother who has the right mind would choose to not work. But again, ain’t the man supposed to be the provider of the family? If he can’t be that, you wouldn’t have any respect towards that particular husband, would you? If the wife is having a highly stressful job and not even making half of the tax her husband pays, wouldn’t be smarter for her not to work so to lower the stress level inside the family? And we are talking about expat wife here, who is dropped from the sky onto the local job market, which is completely foreign to her, and the husband is expecting her to be as competitive as his female co-workers? I bet you, for most educated and worked expat wives, if they have a choice, they won’t choose to stay home. There is another post in this forum expresses expat wife’s dilemma just like that.
There are some very disgusting comments towards women who happen to chose to stay at home. Are they anything less than women who hold jobs out there? I don’t know how many of those critical people here are raised by staying home mothers. If none, I can understand the bitterness in them…Not too long ago, women did not have option to work outside of their families. And now women are not respectable if they chose to stay home? Isn't it laughable, if that is the work of female liberation? And by the way, if women are taking care of family income, giving birth of the next generation and raising them, what do they need husband for? There is no "F" in the word of husband anyway.
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quote from sicn...ain't the man supposed to be the provider of the family?
My friend's husband doesn't work and she provides for everything, even a helper to make sure the husband and daughter have their meals. The lazy husband goes swimming every day in his club and the only thing he does is to come home in the evening and make a cup of coffee for her. I can't blame her for not respecting the husband and she is tempted to have an affair.
My husband told me not to get involved when my friend confided in me (OP - just like what your friend did in confiding in you on their personal matters) and that they should work things out by themselves. So this would also be the advice I am now giving you.
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sicn
14 yrs ago
It would be naive to believe if both husband and wife hold jobs, there will be more respect to each other and less temptation to have affairs. Have you seen working couple screamed at each other at dinner table out of stress from work and life?
When friends complain about their spouses to you instead of trying to solve it privately, the problems are usually bigger than the things they complained about. Or they might be just simply looking for justification for their way out.
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sicn is right, 100 years ago men were the family providers. Unfortunately for sicn, it's now 2010 and that's just a load of boll0cks!
If children are in full time education, women have a duty to work to provide to the household. Especially in Hong Kong where there are servants to clean the house! It's ridiculous to think it's reasonable for this selfish, lazy woman not to contribute to the household. My mother has always worked and subsequently I come from an affluent background. My father has a well paid job but it wouldn't keep us in the lifestyle we had become accustomed to if my mother stopped working. She's 65 now and still working! Even though all my brothers and sister and myself have moved out and have jobs.
Not everyone can be amazing as my mum but if you want to stay in the lifestyle you've got used to, you have to contribute to pay for it.
I'm not sure it's really 'his friend's' wife he's asking about.
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sicn
14 yrs ago
Let's assume it is not "his friend's wife" he's talking about. Then one has to wonder why he would come here for the advice. Why he cant convince his wife remain in the work force at the first place. Lets not put down those women who chose to stay home and not winning bread to the table. Many great men and women are raised by those women. Even the wives or mothers of the US presidents, most capable and successful men, do not have paid jobs. But again, that is besides the point. The point here is to help other's marriage and relationship. And some of the advice people gave out here, in my opinion, is very damaging and self-rightous.
Pupmonkey, good for your mother to be provider. But that is just your mother, and your family value. Many people dont have to live affluently to be happy. Lots of people are content with less. Maybe it happen to be this case?
If I were the man in this case, as long as I could provide, I would been happy for my wife to enjoy herself instead of stressed by work. Because maybe one day, if for some reason, I was not able to work, my wife would work and provide as much as she could and I wouldnt feel inadequate or less of myself. And it is all the matter within MY own family and none of other's business.
And last, yes, it is 2010 this year. And yes, family can still live happily by one provider.
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maxis
14 yrs ago
sicn,
he didnt say she didnt say she wanted to stay at home (that would be ok, not so expensive) he said she didnt want to work (wants to spend), quite different!
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let her do so. If financial situation goes worse, then ask what should be done, else enjoy live.
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Totally depends on the particular couple and the reasons for wanting to stay home. If she is working very hard and earning very little, and they have kids then I could understand that weighing up the benefits of being at home with the kids vs working very hard for very little could sway things for home. Also if working is making her very unhappy then it may be better to cut down on the luxuries and live within the means of one income but be happy.
IF however it is about not being bothered to work and wanting to have a relaxed lifestyle and spending all the income on luxuries for herself then that would be different.
Also different if kids are involved or not.
I am a working Mum and I enjoy my job but the reality is, we need two incomes to achieve the goals we have. It is not easy to balance kids and job (albeit part time) but that is the decision we have made. I would totally understand someone who wanted to stay at home and raise their kids themselves but we have come to a workable arrangement that works for us.
I do not agree with the above that if kids are in school that it there is no reason not to go back to work. There is a lot of child raising still to do when they are at school - just means you have from 9 - 3pm free which would work for a part time job (my kids are not yet at school but I see friends ferrying them around to many activities after school time).
At the end of the day, fine for your friend to ask your advice but it is about finding a solution that works for THEM and THEIR marriage. If your friend has an issue with his wife not working then he needs to speak to his wife and come to an arrangement where both of them are in agreement.
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OP, your frd should just say to his wife, Good idea! He doesn't want to work either!
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Another way of looking at it...
It is all good to say that in HK, there is no excuse for a mother to go out working because we can hire domestic helpers.
However, there is another argument to it. Why even bother having kids if your main priority is to go out working? It is not fair on the kids to have someone else, other than parents raising them. Okay sure, with two incomes = an affluent life, but can this affluent life bring daily love and security? What if kids don't want that affluent life but prefer having their mothers close by? Mothers are their world.
Just to satisfy the Year 2010 generation, mothers now go out working, then they come back and take over the baby caring from their helpers, often exhausting themselves to the maximum while some of their husbands sit in front of the tv after work without lifting a finger to help.
If they don't have children and are not planning to, and the only reason for the wife wanting to stay home is so she can spend all day sleeping and buying herself luxuries, then it is a different story.
So really, it is up to the couple to work it out. We don't know enough about them.
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Another way of looking at it...
It is all good to say that in HK, there is no excuse for a mother to go out working because we can hire domestic helpers.
However, there is another argument to it. Why even bother having kids if your main priority is to go out working? It is not fair on the kids to have someone else, other than parents raising them. Okay sure, with two incomes = an affluent life, but can this affluent life bring daily love and security? What if kids don't want that affluent life but prefer having their mothers close by? Mothers are their world.
Just to satisfy the Year 2010 generation, mothers now go out working, then they come back and take over the baby caring from their helpers, often exhausting themselves to the maximum while some of their husbands sit in front of the tv after work without lifting a finger to help.
If they don't have children and are not planning to, and the only reason for the wife wanting to stay home is so she can spend all day sleeping and buying herself luxuries, then it is a different story.
So really, it is up to the couple to work it out. We don't know enough about them.
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MJ1
14 yrs ago
It's not about just satisfying the Year 2010 generation, for the majority of families in HK, the 2nd income is imperative just to maintain a basic standard of living. Not all working husbands are on expat packages with housing and education for their kids paid for.
Sure it would be nice to be a stay at home mum and look after the kids full time, but it's just not practical in the real world, especially in HK, wake up and smell the roses. Daily love and security only goes so far, who's going to pay for the kid's education, extra-curricular activities, pocket money etc as they get older? If the mother doesn't work now, it'll just translate into the kids having to work in their early teens at places like McDonalds earning HK$15/hr to fund things that their parents can't provide.
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Mj1. Why do the kids need to have pocket money? Shouldn't they be at home doing homework or if not - working to h=get some cash themslves?
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Yes, I agree, for some, in order to make ends meet, both husband and wife have to work to maintain a basic standard of living.
However, there are those who are able to make compromises as well. Like instead of renting a HK$30k per month flat, they are happy to move to the New Territories such as Yuen Long and pay a HK$8k a month flat in order for the wife to stay home. Instead of choosing international schools for the kids, they are happy to go with the local route and this saves about $10-15k per child.
It really depends on every family's circumstances and for the family's priorities. The problem lies when one spouse prefers a more comfortable home say on HK island while his spouse is happy for a smaller unit in Yuen Long if it means she gets to stay home with the kids. All require compromises. So I'm not one to jump in and judge a family, just saying that there are all sorts of valid reasons why a wife wants to stay home also as opposed to working.
Obviously as one poster pointed out, if one spouse staying home isn't working out financially, it is highly unlikely the mother would continue to demand this.
"If the mother doesn't work now, it'll just translate into the kids having to work in their early teens at places like McDonalds earning HK$15/hr to fund things that their parents can't provide."
I doubt any mother would stay home and let their kids do this especially if their reason for staying home is to be there for her kids anyway.
PS: I am NOT a stay at home mum but a working mother due to financial reasons. But I do respect all mothers whether they work or stay at home.
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MJ1
14 yrs ago
LGMV - That's my point, if parents can afford to give the kids what they need to keep them happy, then they won't have to work themselves atsh*tty hourly rates and can concentrate on homework/studying.
Gemma, I agree with your points re downsizing, but unfortunately, "face" or image is pretty important in HK and I don't think most families would do this. Their preference would be probably for the other half to work.
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I don't see anything wrong wi kids working to earn their pocket money.... They'll learn sth that u cannot learn at school i.e. earning $ isn't easy, and learn to be responsible.... They do it everywhere (western or asian countries), not cus they are poor, but as part of growing up!! I did it.... and it did me gd!
MJ1 -- again, it's the husband and the wife to decide wot is more important! If the husband and wife thinks face is more important, they'll discuss and decide on that!
I really doubt any husband or wife would want to jeopardise their finances, marriage, or raising kids up just to be selfish and rest at home doing nth...... If a man or wife decide to do sth that selfish or silly, they i guess the whole marriage is f*cked up..... so that won't last long....
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My parents could afford to buy me anything I wanted ... they just refused to. I've worked since I was 14 and it did me a world of good! Now I appreciate the value of money!
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MJ1
14 yrs ago
I see where you're coming from, but from my perspective, I would rather my kid concentrate on studies and extra-curricular activities than working at in their early teens atsh*tty hourly rates. Extra-curricular activities cost $$, which goes back to my original post...Furthermore, you don't have to slave away in your early teens to appreciate the value of money.
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My Chinese step daughter worked hard on her studies, such is the pressure and competition to get into decent schools here. She would not have time to work.
She is now studying overseas and is really good with the money we send her. She gets this moneywise from her mother.
I had to go do part-time work at 13 (had a paper round before that) my father said it would teach me the value of money. Ironically both my parents are terrible with money. I learned their attitudes. I was also terrible with money, despite having worked since aged 13. This didn't change until I got my first mortgage in my 30s.
I think being moneywise is something we can learn from role models.
Chinese kids don't have the time for PT work. The rhetoric sounds good but doesn't IMHO stand up.
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If this women is not a full time mum, raising young kids, then why should she an easy life and lay about doing f**k all, all day? It sounds to me that she wants of piece of her friends' action and do the whole tai tai thing. This fella should grow some balls and tell his wife that she needs to "get down the mine" like any self respecting women would.
My partner gave up payroll work a while back due to stress, not a desire to improve her back hand. She has now set up her own business and is working harder than ever. I personally think alot of this has to do with values and experiences in earlier life. Both myself and my mrs worked for our own money from being young, so we know the value, both financially and psychologically of bringing home the bacon. If she wants a handbag, she'll buy it with her own money. If she wants a handbag and its nearly Christmas, then I'd consider it :)
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It is possible to be top of the class and have a job. Babysitting for example can fit around your studies, extra curricula activities and social events. Ok, so babysitting isn't really needed in HK but there are similar jobs. Tutoring for example. I used to take my homework to my babysitting jobs, and when I worked for a famous supermarket, I used to do my homework or coursework in my breaks.
I was top of the class, went on to earn myself two masters degrees while working part time as well.
It's a simple equation. If you want money, you have to work for it.
Work = money = holidays + fast cars + designer labels + and all the rest
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Pup Monkey
You are the exeption that proves the rule.
Am I right in assuming this was your choice, and not becuase your dad read some well meaning posts on a website?
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