Posted by
Sammy2011
14 yrs ago
I have been in a serious relationship for the last 3 years now, and have been living with my partner in Hong Kong for almost that same time (we are both from Europe). We have a very good relationship, and I am in a very happy place...
The only thing is: I don’t understand why he hasn’t proposed to me yet! He is in his early thirties; I am in my late 20’s. I have hinted about getting engaged, and having children soon, as I am really ready to move to the next phase in my life.
He always mentions that he needs to be financially secure before taking that next step. I understand where he is coming from, however I find it disappointing that nowadays everything needs to be planned in advance, rather than just going for it, and enjoying the time being engaged and pregnant instead of making sure you have enough $ in the bank! We both work and have a relatively good income, however not many savings.
All our friends are either getting married, are married or are even having babies. They keep on asking us when it is going to happen for us too, and I would love to get engaged/ have children! I am totally ready for the next step, my boyfriend just needs to be pushed in the right direction. I know for a fact that he is not cheating on me, so that could not be the reason...
Any advice?
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Any advice for what? How to get someone to want to marry you?
Gf, let me run through two scenarios, very much real like.
*Names will be changed to protect said persons identity
Take my buddy Gunther, for instance. He was 30, his then gf was 35. He loved to go swing dancing and she didnt. He enjoyed times with his friends, she couldnt stand his friends. At some point, after 2 years together, she told him "Its either we get married, or we are done!" And so, like a fool, Gunther opted not to "lose" her, even though, really, all his friends thought he would be better off encasing the b***hes shoes in cement and chucking her in the harbor.
Reality: She then got him to move to another country, give up all his friends, and even when friends came all the way to visit, she kicked up a fuss and made his life a living hell. But he remains with her because if he was dumb enough to marry someone who gave him an ultimatum, then well, what can you say?
Now lets look at Chico. Chico was very happily relationshipped up with Sally. After 5 happy years together, Sally gave him an ultimatum, marry me or its over. Chico thought this through...hell, he loved Sally very much! But he was not financially ready for all that. Plus, what was wrong with their situation as it were? She was in her late 20's, he was in his early 30's...why the rush? Things like marriage were for those ready to buckle down and slow down!
Reality: He ended it with her. He was heartbroken, coz he loved her to bits, but felt that it wasn''t right to try to guilt him into marriage when it was something he felt he had a few years yet to commit to. He never cheated, he cooked great meals, the sex was good...they laughed at each others jokes...and just like that, it was over.
Hmm...if, when you have brought up the whole thing of marriage and babies, what did your bf say? Thing is, hinting, most women's favorite way of communicating, is daft.
You hint, and hint, and hint and then are surprised he didnt get the hint. Men are simple creatures, if you don't spell it out, they don't get it. And if he was bright enough to get the hint and still never said anything (ie. propose) then it is you that isn't getting the message.
You are a grown up, he is a grown up...sit him down and talk. Hey, I want to know where we are going (although, if your relationship were all that good, you would kinda KNOW where you are going) and if you have some sort of invisible timer on for when you expect things to happen, then maybe you should rethink how well you know this man and what he thinks is a good time to get life kicked off.
Much as you think love and cuddles will get you through anything, they wont. Babies cost money, maids cost money, and if you think you dont need a maid, then you not having a job, will cost him even more. So don't be foolish and bemoan the whole "why the hell do you have to plan everything?" coz all you have to do is walk the diaper aisle at your local to know how much money you will need for all that, and thats not even school uniforms, shoes and fees yet! Most men are conservative about these things. Talk to him...no more hinting.
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Sound advice from JustinCredible.
Don't hint. Guys can be pretty slow with hints.
Have a proper talk. Maybe tell him in advance that you want to talk at the weekend. This will give him a few days to think about what he wants to say.
Don't give ultimatums. Just express what you would like, don't make it sound like a demand. But sometimes guys need a little push.
One thing I can say, with regards big plans and babies. There is never a perfect time. You can plan as much as you like, you are never ready as such.
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Some men need a bit of coaxing to get the church. Ronald Regan's 2 marriages were a result of an attempted suicide & unplanned pregnancy respectively - if you believe the biographers.
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Hello and thank you for your advice.
Maybe I was not clear in my previous post, I have actually asked him straight up (in a serious conversation) what he thinks about marriage, if he wants to get married with me, and when. His answer: I love you, but first we need to be financially stable before moving on.
As Tigerbay said: ‘There is never a perfect time. You can plan as much as you like, you are never ready as such [a baby].’ I do agree with you on that, mainly because you don’t know what life as a parent will bring you. However, I don’t think that you should take it that rational and say that you first need amount X in the bank before you are ready.
I know that children cost loads of money, however I do believe that there is a solution for everything. Not having tons of money in the bank does not mean that you will not love your child, nor capable or raising your child in a great and healthy way!
In fact, nowadays, maids are becoming substitute mothers so that the real parents can bring in money, which is also not the best solution. Being ready for a baby means feeling ready to become a great parent, where you and your partner can share something as beautiful as creating a human being.
I am just mostly surprised by the fact that (some) guys determine their next step in life on their last pay check and what amount they have in the bank...
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Some men like everything structured.
Some men just are not ready to commit themselves yet, and the money excuse buys time.
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also, some men know that once they kid is here, it's them who are on the hook and under pressure to bring the money home - regardless of how many times the wifey said that money is not important...
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sicn
14 yrs ago
For guys who enjoy expat life style, marriage and kids are not necessary in the equation of having relationships. Also in a relationship, which partner’s priority comes on top depends on how the relationship is structured. If you followed him to HK and have been building your life around him, that will certainly give him more entitlement to follow his own preference rather than yours. Why he has to do something he doesn’t want since he is already having all he wants.
For Sammy to gain more ground on this negotiation, maybe it is good to go back to the beginning of the of you two living together, was it supposed to be the first step towards marriage, or it just happened? If it was the first one, you can always refresh him what you were signed up for. If it is the latter one, maybe the best thing is to wait until he is mature enough to give you what you want.
I am curious: Are marriage and kids always what you want or it just come to surface after you see all your friends are having them?
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Why don't you propose to him? Take the money issue out of the equation for him. Get him a nice rolex - you can pick them up for cheap in TST and he wouldn't know even know the difference!
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Hundred HK Dollar Lolex.
Now that made me smile.
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Hello everyone and thank you for your replies.
The reason why I want to get married is because I want to take my relationship to the next level, and I am truly ready to commit (in fact, I am already 100% committed, don’t get me wrong). I thought that I was the non-marrying type, however, for the last year I am really feeling strongly about this.
We moved in together about 2 years ago, before moving to Hong Kong. It wasn’t really the first step of getting married, we were at each other’s house every day anyway and really enjoyed each other’s company. In Europe and in the West, it is much more common to live together before you get married anyway.
I have thought about proposing myself, however, I think I am still a bit too traditional to do that, and I want to make sure that when we do get married, he feels 100% okay about it as well.
When does a guy ‘know’ that he is ready? When you are together for so long, how is it possible to ‘not be ready’? You see, to me that does sounds a bit odd to be honest. If you are in a serious relationship, but not ready to propose, does that mean that you first want to test the water and see what is out there, before making your final decision?
Quite surprising that most responses come from men, rather than woman...
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Pocky
14 yrs ago
well ... i just think that sometimes the guys just dunno that they are ready for something unless they get to do it. Maybe he's just afraid he may not be able to handle but often, they are more than capable. Guys just needs a little push and a few words of assurance that they are capable. Talk to him and if he really loves you as much as you love him, he will understand and ready to take the relation to the next level.
Good luck and wish you all the best.
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My friend's girlfriend used to pester him about getting engaged. After a while he said to her, "do you want me to propose to you only because you want me to and not because I want to?"
They are getting married in January.
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you basically gave your man everything he wants and he has no reason to get married.
You live together, sex, love, split the bills, friends with friends, good with the family etc.
Once you get married the "back door" closes and half of everything that you make together will be split if things go sour.
What "advantage" would marriage have over what you have right now for him?
Best of luck, if its not gonna happen in the next couple months i recommend you take a breather.
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I agree...I mean, what will marriage sort him out with, that would be a bonus, compared to what he has now? I mean, as you say, you are already 100% committed. *shrug*
But really, if you feel you need to be married and it its such an important thing that it is to HIM and not to just anyone willing to marry you off the street, then it won't hurt to be patient.
So many women get to that 3 year mark and they get all antsy, like "where is this going?"
I mean, why does "Where is this going?" only have one decent answer?
If he says, "I want to get married when financially stable" instead of "lets get married now" does the answer mean that the relationship is going nowhere?
Not at all.
It means that he open to the idea of marrying you once he is financially stable.
Now if you are looking at him thinking, wow, his job sucks peanuts, he will NEVER get there, then you need to make that informed decision and jump ship accordingly. OR hedge your bets accordingly, weighing in on how much he means to you and whether he is worth the wait.
Who would want to marry someone they coerced into proposing anyway? I mean, wouldn't that be something that nags you every night before you fall asleep? like...did he really want this?
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You are on two different planets...
Will this work... probably not.
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Took my fiancé 7 years to propose.
All I went on about after 3 years was how much I wanted to marry him and commit. No matter how much I went on and on, he wasn't going to budge. I was miserable, my friends met and married her boyfriend in a year - how did he know he wanted to marry my friend but after so long, my fella didn't know he wanted to marry me after years and years?!
I know exactly how you feel. There is nothing you can do to make him propose. Just show him how happy he makes you, how perfect you are together. It worked for me!
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selda
14 yrs ago
you are still young and enjoying the carefree, expat life in HK. You are in love, you have fun together.
If i were a guy, i too would not change anything anytime soon.
You think "babies" and go all soft inside.
He thinks "babies" and see the end of bliss.
He might have seen other women put on a lot of weight because of their pregnancy, lose their nice figure, become uninterested in sex, complain about the lack of support at home etc. and he doesn't want to lose you as you are now. He knows and loves the current you, but he doesn't know what will happen to you once you have babies.
He needs to be desperate to settle down in order to overcome this irrational fear.
When it comes to having babies, most men aren't as desperate as women.That's a fact. Maybe only when they think about their own mortality...but that happens a bit later, when they have seen close friends or family members die.
Be patient if you want to marry HIM. One day he will be ready.
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Bravo, PupMonkey and Selda. Sound advice. Prolly not what OP wanted to hear, but likely what she needs to know in order to assess the situation she is in.
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If I was in your shies I'd ask him what his future plans are about me and ask for a general time frame. You need this information so you can manage and plan your own life.
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Men don't get hints.
While you're never going to 'get him to propose' ... men don't get hints. I made my feelings very clear to my now fiance, he made his feelings clear to me. Clear communication is key to a sucessful relationship! Be honest.
You're not going to get him to propose until he's ready. No amount of pressure will do it. Believe me, I tried!
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Does everyone feel a little sorry for my fiance now? lol
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to quote the "OP"
"We both work and have a relatively good income, however not many savings".
If you guys have not many savings NOW.... whats the plan when the bubs comes along?
I think you both have it back to front, and if I was the fella I'd be pretty hesitant aswell! Communicate, make plans, set targets and go from there I say.
But being in HK for 3 years and not having many savings equates to the "honeymoon" lifestyle one normally has for the first 18mths upon arrival to HK.
Men are wired entirely different to women and vice versa.... guess it's just a matter of the old sit down and pow wow.
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HK1
14 yrs ago
I think Justine Credible's responses have been spot on.
My view is that only YOU can really know if your bf's stating he wants to wait until he is financially stable is an excuse or the truth (and in your heart you already know the answer). If you really trust him and believe it's the truth then I don't really understand what your rush is... What's behind the timeframe you've decided upon? Especially if you've changed from being the "non-marrying type" only in the last year...
If a specific timeframe and/or certainty regarding your future is important to you at this time I suggest sitting down and talking (really hinting doesn't work and simply soundslike mind games/expecting psychic abilities of each other) about what "being financially stable" means to him exactly and how you can work together to get to that point.
As you say, you want him to be 100% sure too, so bullying/guilt-tripping him to the alter isn't a good idea in the long term.
You should bear in mind a few things too...
Men are not all the same and so there's not a standard reason/time that guys will know they're ready for marriage. Every person is different as to what that "switch" will be. It sounds like he may have been upfront with you in this respect... Also
You've not been together all that long, really!
Your comments on those points make you sound younger than your years, really, but your bf sounds like he is level headed (from what you've said) ;-)
I've been with my hubby MANY years. Whilst I was much younger than you when we first met he didn't propose until after 9 years together and we took another 2 years before we got married...but i always knew he was "The One" for me so was prepared to wait. We've been together now for nearly 19 years and are very happy. And whilst many people we know have met-married-had-babies much more quickly than us, as Prince William says it's not a race! ;-) In fact I know many who've done all of the above then got divorced quickly too :D
If he's "The One" then you already know, and you'll have open honest discussions about what you both want when you're both ready and how you'll get there.
Good luck!!!
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Dear all,
Thank you for all the responses, it is good to see things from a different perspective. I now really agree with some of you, saying that you can’t ‘make’ someone propose to you unless he is ready. I am surprised to see that so many people see getting engaged as such a ‘serious’ thing, meaning; making sure that you are financially stable, having savings in the bank, and having your entire future planned (e.g. with children, double or single income, etc).
I always thought that getting married meant that you wanted to be with each other for the rest of your life as you love each other, and then plan a future together; rather than first seeing what your savings are and then making the decision to get married.
I come from a family where my parents got married when they were both still studying, had their first child a year later. Money was tight, however, they made it work, and 30 years later, they are still in love and married. Something you don’t see very often if you ask me! As my partner comes from a broken home, his perspective on marriage is very different… He never really knew his father, and his mother remarried someone who he did not like. Therefore, marriage for him is associated with something negative.
I know in my heart that my boyfriend really loves me; we are two individuals who complement each other very well. However, I also know that he is not ready to get hitched as he feels we need to have more savings (he feels marriage is about being financially stable and then moving forward, rather then an act of love where you express your love for one another and trying to build a future together).
Anyway, I can tell you this: I have *very clearly* expressed my feelings and future plans towards him, so he knows very well what I want. Let’s hope that we can work on his (financial) needs and wants, and then get married when we both feel 100% comfortable to make the next move!
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Just a recommendation, someone probably has already mentioned it. Perhaps give him a two weeks heads up, and organise for a financial planner to come to your house. Then you guys can sit down and examine your finances. Be prepared that this might be a wake up call (for you or him, not sure). You'll also be able to understand more clearly where his concerns are, how much savings is 'enough' for him to feel comfortable, and set these financial targest to meet together. Don't know if you are already financially operating as a joing entity, but this could be a time to manage your finances together. Depending on how you both choose to do it, you might be able to meet targets in a year, or maybe in a few years, but you'll know. And he'll know. And the figures will be loud and clear, in black and white, both your incomes, the rent, household expenditures, savings, investments, etc. Perhaps you both will need to cut back on a few holidays a year, perhaps not, but at least you'll know how to move forward to the financial goal.
A relationship is about feelings, but its not all about feelings. If he wants to be finanically secure, then take a look at the numbers and show him how you guys will become financially secure. A solid financial foundation, whether that be actual savings or a goal to save for, is going to be such a critical foundation to your relationship. All the best!
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Poor people do marry, but they also have a lot more problems! Lets not ignore the fact that a lot of social ills are associated with having very little money in the bank.
Sounds like OP has got the psychology of the whole keeness to marry "thing" down pat. Dude is from a broken home, she is from a happy one. They view the animal from a totally different perspective each.
So yeah, work through it, chica. It will all happen if its meant to :)
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I might have a different point of view. I met my (now wife) 5 years ago, I was 26 back then. After 2 years, I proposed. Did not want to wait, knew that she was the one. I also did not really have the proper finances is place, but knew I loved her and wanted to stay with her for the rest of my life.
About 6 months ago, we had a beautiful baby boy. Merriage life is so much better than bf-gf. Really happy!
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Yeah, my best friend just got married last week. He met his now wife about a year ago. This is a guy who has dodged the bullet for years on end. I mean, he's on this side of forty, thats how long he has dodged it.
His last gf, sadly, was dating him for almost 6 years, and then he split up with her because he realized that she wanted marriage and she didn't. So yeah, by the time he split with her she was 37 or so.
So yeah, Mickey has a point. Maybe the man you are with just isn't hot on the idea of marriage...to you.
Its something you have to consider if it drags on into your most fertile years anyhoo. You still got time though. :)
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poor people marry but have more problems??? really??
weird thought that, and a falacy. You have problems in your relationships because of the strength of an individual's commitment to making something work not based on how much is in your pocket.
My husband as I never lived together, dated two years got married when we were "poor" volunteers then students for 2 years, had babies, and now finally are financially secure in our early 30's with kids who are happy. it WAS HARD, but it's going through real life sh*t together that often makes you a stronger couple in the long run. Having it all together before you commit to me seems like a huge wasted opportunity to actually give it a go as a team. Yes stress comes when you marry, but stress will come either way it is only FEAR that will separate people. if there is no fear of divorce, no threat of someone packing up and leaving, no fear that you are missing out on being with someone better, more perfect etc and complete acceptance that you are in this for life you don't face problems like they have the power to end your relationship. They don't......only our reaction to fear has that power.
anyways
I think you'll know eventually if he's in this for life or not.....hope he is for your sake!!
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