Hong Kong (future concerns, should I stay or leave this city for USA)

Hi forum; need to rather urgent help on my issue here in Hong Kong. Some background first that led up to the situation that I am now in. Met my wife in USA 7 years ago (we were both in university at the time) worked a few years in the states, then in Europe until mid-2012. My wife was born in Hong Kong, but grew up in the US since early age. We got engaged mid-2012, and after a short (engagement trip here) we decided to move to Hong Kong. My firm (finance) was closing anyways, and I thought it would be a great way to meet my wife’s extended family, and get to know a bit more about her heritage as a Chinese. She is from north westerns US, and is also where we both want to settle down one day when we have children etc. Some more background is the fact that I am also very outdoor oriented, hiking fishing, camping etc., so this part of the US fits me to like a glove.


Now the problem, I haven’t had much luck here finding employment. I got a solid 6 years background with one of the largest banks in the US; I have a MBA degree, but haven’t been able to land a job, been little over a year now. Most of my western friends have left HK, either being laid off or stating environmental issues with Hong Kong. I personally feel that there is a twofold reason. One is that there is a growing anti-expat sentiment, I didn’t believe it at first but I now feel there is some truth in it. I have felt this, and I have heard it from others. I recently had lunch with an old colleague (local Singapore working in Singapore) who is a lawyer in a bank, who told me the same thing also about Singapore, so I know there is some truth to is. Secondly, my area of finance, trading, is massively downsized not only in HK, but also globally. I am active locally, I live in a local area, I love the food in HK, and I am taking Cantonese courses. Did I mention I love the food here in Hong Kong?


However, since I haven’t been able to land a job here yet, and since we got married this summer we started to work on the resident papers for me for US (EU citizen) should I not been able to find a job, and since we always planned our long term to be in the states anyways. We might just fast forward a bit and move there sooner. Good news is that this VISA is almost done, maybe next week it will be ready, and potentially I could move there.

My problem is that my father in law lined me up with a fund here in Hong Kong last week, and I went for an interview. This is the ideal role for me, pretty much spot on what I want to do, what I know I would be good at, but more importantly, this is the field where banking will grow the most in the next 5-10 years. Banks will go back to being banks, being more people oriented, wealth/asset management, and less derivative trading, stocking warehouses of commodities etc. I have applied for these roles online, but it’s all Chinese speaking, and focused on China, so haven’t had any luck. I don’t speak mandarin, but also culture wise I wouldn’t be good at these roles I think as a westerner. And while I was excited about this role, I just couldn’t see myself working there in that environment. Everyone was local, and in a small dark office. It’s different from what I am used to, and I couldn’t see myself being happy there. My communication with my father in law is often via my wife, and last night he asked me firmly why I am not moving forward with the role, apparently he knows the CEO. This is another uncomfortable factor, but not a main issue. Like I said I think the role is perfect, but my residency papers for US is almost ready (this week maybe) and I have been planning to move to US, finding a job there, while my wife keep working here for a few months (until I land something) The culture there is what I am used to, cant believe I say this as I feel like someone who can’t adapt, but truth is actually far from it. I have adapted to a lot of places in the world.


I’m a bit lost to be honest (I’m early 30s now) I love my wife, and will love her forever, but I just don’t see us living here in Hong Kong anymore. This place has changed us, maybe because we are not used to it? My wife first, I have seen a change in her since we moved here; she has less patience, get angry easily. For me it’s more complicated, I have always been open to new cultures, having lived in Europe, north and South America and even in the south pacific for a few years. I just don’t blend with HK well. When I first moved here, I always told my wife and her sister’s family that we should spend more time outside, and do outdoor things. I didn’t know why they didn’t, but now I know. The air is very bad usually, and there isn’t that much to do outside anyways. There are lots of hikes, but after a while all the hikes looks the same. I love fishing, but there isn’t any fish around here for sport fishermen. We spend a lot of time in China as my wife’s father has a business there, I love seeing new places in China. And even though there are soo many negative things about China, there is also in incredible amount of beauty there. I like to be positive about China, by my wife and her family often says the opposite. Most Hong Kong people doesn’t like China (even though they are Chinese) lots of things that doesn't make sense to me lots of people in China are rude, but the same is true for HK, and it’s their right and it’s how it is. I never thought it had an effect on me, but it has. And lately smaller things have started to bother me too, our neighbor often burns paper in the hallway, I get angry when I see people don’t recycle plastic/paper etc. outside. I know it’s different here, but even the smallest things have started to bother me.


Where I am from people drink cold water, people here drink warm water.

Where I am from people stay outside when its sunny, people here stay inside or use umbrella


Additionally, me and my wife are trying to start out family now, so far unsuccessful. We are both super stressed over the whole situation, which I think is a major factor. I stress out about myself, and about HK, and about us and our future. And my wife stressed out about me stressing out, and the fact that she doesn’t really like her job at the moment, about same pay as US/Europe but LONGER hours! I grew up in northern Europe as a child, and I just don’t see myself having Children here in HK. I wouldn’t know what to do with them, being the outdoor type myself; I wouldn’t be able to do that here. In fact I wouldn’t want to take a child outside anytime here I think. I just don’t think it’s a good place for children, and there are already too many people here, almost feel bad bringing in more. And I really want to start a family now, I want to bring my kids out and show them all the beauty of the world. My father in law even offered to get me a nice car a while back, as he knows I love and miss driving here. And while initially I would get excited, I start thinking about where would I go? Would I take my future family to the forest, fishing? Probably not, I would just add to the roadside pollution. Do I sound negative? Yes I have felt that myself, but I don’t know how to not show it anymore. Sometimes, I feel I should show it, I mean I know the issue/problem, and I don’t feel I should shuffle it under the carper any longer. I came to HK with the best intentions last year, but having lived here for some time, I don’t think it’s for me. Most people that live here don’t have a choice, but I do have a choice to live somewhere else.

Every time we have dinner with my extended family here in Hong Kong, people often ask me why did we move to HK, your country is so beautiful (they came to our wedding in northern Europe) what do I answer? Well for now it’s good? We wanted to come here for a while before moving?


So what do I do now??


Do I ignore the job offer I got, and slowly move my family over to US where I feel we would have a better life? I know my wife would be calmer there, I know our children would have clean air and lots of nature to enjoy, and I know the schools are good. The area in US we are planning does also have a pretty large Chinese population, so all the things we like about China we would be able to get there. Like food wise, and later in life, after school language mandarin/cantonese for the kids etc. OR……. Do I take this job that fits me very well, and someone manage to be ok with the negative things about HK (air quality, environment in general, over populated, expensive)


My cousin told me at my wedding “don’t lose yourself” and while I was laughing at it while he said it earlier this summer, I think I know exactly what he meant now. I feel super happy when I plan my move to the states, how to get this how to get that. I have a long working list and spreadsheets of exactly what I would do when I land in US, converting my driver licence, looking for jobs, etc. etc.


But then I feel down when I think of my father in law, and my wife’s sisters family which I really enjoying spending time with. Wife’s sisters also have a 3 year old daughter and another baby on the way, and I do really enjoying spending time with them also, and I know my wife really like to be a part their lives growing up. So not only (if we move to US) am I pulling my wife away from her father a bit, I am also pulling my wife away from her sisters family, which isn’t a good feeling as you can imagine. Potential good news is that my wife’s sister is US citizen also and really hates HK, and only stay because her husband likes it here, but he is also set on moving back to the same place we are thinking about within 5 years. Whatever I do now I feel I would lose something. Any suggestions of people that have been, or are in the same or similar situations?


Did post this here, and on another forum I am also a member of to get more replies


Helpful for any input

clearly you don't feel well being here.

now there is this issue of your wife: does she feel the same? if so then move.

if not, then who is the boss in this family, ie who will provide for financially? if you, then grab your wife and move. if it's your wife, then there's big problem! either you suck it up, adapt and try to make the best out of here. if you can't then divorce.

but before deciding anything, talk seriously to your wife first. I'm amazed, why haven't you solved this issue before marrying?

Hi tititt, thanks for your reply! While my wife has concerns also, she is pretty okey here i think. I mean, she has less temper here and get stressed out easily and hates her job, but as far as HK goes she doesnt mind. In fact, i dont mind it either, its a great place for food, and if you are single and in your mid-20s. But not so much i feel if you want a family. She is okey with leaving HK actually, just if i go first and get a job there she would come after me.


Well we did speak about is before marrying, a bit. Her family already had an empty flat here in the city, so it was an easy move, if only for a short time we thought. Its hard to know if a city is right for you by just visiting it.

Take the job with the fund and make a go of HK. Once you have a job and some normality, you will be able to assess the place better without the stress of sorting your life out.

My work moved me here 3 months ago. Just before we left my home country, we found out my wife was pregnant (took us around 4 years to get pregnant). We decided to move anyway and we love it here.

I understand that HK is not for everyone (few places are), but you decided to come here for a reason and I think quitting so early would be doing yourself a dis-service.

@fitzy_b:


while i agree in a way, it makes sense to take the job and save up a bit and then prepare for the big move. However, two problems. 1) this role was via networking (family) so in a way USING the company just collect a few paychecks wouldn't look very good (maybe even worse than to decline it now, saying its not for me) and 2) If i don't travel now, that's 18 months of opportunity cost that i will miss not being where i want to be.


@malka:

leaving is a risk, and while my wife supports it, i know not all in our families support it fully. However, i feels its for the better. And for the long run

brownfish, living wise, 100% sure you prefer USA, right? now you ask yourself, what about career/making money, where could you succeed more?

then you decide which one is more important to you: quality of life (ie outdoors, cleaner environment, less city pressure etc...) or making money. If making sufficient to support family is good enough and you could assure it in the USA then i say go to the USA.

If career/money is more important, then stay in HKG, more opportunitu for you here specially you have in laws to help unless you have the same back up in the USA.

at the end, 90% is where you could make a decent living, ie career/money and 10% is the quality of life. (because with money you can have quality of life).

@malka

yes, you are more correct than i dear to agree actually. So many families freaked out when China took over HK and moved abroad, just to realize nothing happened. Well, the truth is while not suddenly, its more a gradual thing i feel. Anyhow, last sentence you wrote hits the nail straight on, and hard at that, i know i am too nice. I have given a lot for this place, maybe i am just running on dry and that's my real issue......

It would be an insult to your father-in-law not to take the job. Take the job, work hard and kearn Cantonese. Stay humble. Fo that for at least five years. It looks like a great opportunity to get experience in area often closed off to westerners. You think too much, just do.

the insult, maybe true, must not be a criterion for you to decide whether to live or stay. also you don't want to suck it up to the in-laws, you're a man and must now think how to build up your family and to achieve this you must be able to secure financial ressources, so your career is important and if this chance to work in HKG is the best deal you could ever have, then grab it.

it seems you are completly lost and your inability to make money and support your family make you want to leave. then it's the wrong reason, if you start to run now, you will always run away of responsibility.

so ask yourself, why do you find yourself in such a difficult situation where you have to debate for everything? your insecurity?

Hi Browntrout


I want to know what have you decided to do? I appreciate you have shared your problems. I have come with my husband to Hong Kong it's been five months and I can not find work as an accountant. I feel like going back to UK but I have to think of my husband to be honest I went to Dubai first and landed a job in two weeks whilst my husband was serving his notice period in US, he joined me in Dubai but unable to find work he went to UK and got himself a job. I resigned from my job after a year and 10 months from Dubai. I went to UK and got myself a job but I hated London and wanted to a new challenge or go back to Dubai, we came to Hong Kong and I don't like here, recruitment agents won't meet me so that I can register as a candidate and three I have registered with would not return my calls. I have applied directly to companies and I have been told to network which I have and nothing.


You are fortunate to get a job with your father in law's contacts and consider taking the opportunity, don't be ashamed to take your father in law help after all he is your father he cares for you. I know how you feel, if you leave your wife on her own in Hong kong and move to US the chances are she may not come back trust me I am talking from experience I found it hard to go back to UK from Dubai which is why I have decided we have to make it work whatever happens.


The grass in not greener on the other side, if you are considering going back I suggest you take your wife with you and getting a divorce is not an option and also you can delay in having children.


Please post your final decision. take care and don't get stressed.

Hi Browntrout, here I add:


Hong Kong can be a place you love or hate. The positives are that it's busy, the negatives are that it's busy..


As we get older our ideologies and sense of freedom emerges, our own sense of being in control of our own lives. In some countries families exercise a strong sense of entitlement over their children's lives, or there is a strong peer responsibility to provide for others in a collective society.


Space is also a major factor in northern europe, right? We are all entitled to an amount of individual living space. Whereas in other cultures, everyone sharing space is the norm.


I get from your posts that you are unlikely to change the fundamental preferences which you've expressed, but that clearly you're ideologically struggling with.


I would think that now is the 'clearest path' to leave, and that five years down the track, or less, there will be a path of far greater resistance before you..


At the same time, having children at this time is only going to increase that path of resistance before you.. in that it will severely reduce your individual voting power..


I would be prioritizing what needs to be sorted and not be going into a life that you have no control over to start.. it will increase..

Move before it get too late!.... I wish I had a choice between living here or moving back to US!

Either take the above advice by azi72 or suck it up and don't whine. Your father in law has made it possible for you to work in Hong Kong and its a big face loss to not go for the job. Once you bring your wife back into the family, you are expected to do your best, work hard, be strong, accurate and tough. That includes supporting the family by the way you present yourself and the way you handle yourself in the roles presented.

my 2 cents...


Discussed with your wife. If both of you agree to give HK a try, take the job.Give yourself 6 months and see how you feel. If it works out fine, great. If not, at least you give your best and your father in law would understand if you quit after giving your best.


HK is a strange place to be honest. You have to be very careful building your life here. It can be stressful if mismanaged but if you are focus, able to filter out the negative enegery and surrounding of your life, it can be a great place. Speaking from my experience. I am Asia and I had a hard time adjusting to HK life too when I first moved here. Took me a while to understand HK and how I should manage my life style here. Not easy but can be done...


As for the kids, try to move outof the city. I heard DB or somewhere in NT has great outdoor place for kids. I have never live there before but seems my friends and their family are happy living in those areas and they are not local.


Finally, you dont always get what you want. More so after you are married. Environment is important to make a person happy but if you are able to adjust your mind set abit, things around you may look diff and better...again, just my 2 cents. Good luck...