Posted by
altec320
16 yrs ago
OK, The situation.
I am a married male in late 40's and been in HK 10 yrs. All this time I have lived here alone with my wife and children overseas. I am only here for the work and the reason my wife and children are not here is for salary/child education reasons.
I will be honest - I have not always been faithful to my wife in the strict religous/sexual sense (4 partners in 10 yrs) but I am faithful in that I do love her and have no intention of leaving her. The relationships I had were for purely physical needs.
The problem.
The relationships I had I did out of a physical need. 2 of these present no problem for either of us ( they are now gone), but in 2 cases my partner was seeking more than I could offer. What I mean is that they were hoping for a more permanent commitment. This happened even though they knew my situation and we had "set the ground rules" that nothing more could ever be.
I do care for the women I had relationships with but will not jeopadize my marriage for them. I have always been honest and up front about my situation and never got involved unless they were comfortable with it. Problem is they change.
I hate having to break it off and send them on their way. I always say that if there is someone else they should chase that dream rather than spend the odd afternoon with me.
What I need to know?
I dont want advice as to what I should or should not be doing.
I dont need advice telling me I am risking everything.
What I need to know (from women) is why do you, after settling into a relationship (with agreed terms and conditions) believe that you can change them.
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Ola Altec 320.
How possible the relation with someone based on the legal paper? Do you think that you're in the right position? or just want to be a victim of your relationships for purely physical needs. Do the 2 Partners known what you want from your relationship with them. Tell them clearly before started relation how will be your relationship. I think They will consider you just for the game....Man. Don't you ever think if this case happened on the contrary? What do you feel?. You can think about it......
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though i never become a married man's lover,i can still tell u what these women are thinking and why they are hoping.
well,i think they wanna get more.first they wanna get 'love'or'money'or 'feeling' or anymore.After they got it,in second step they want to get 'steble relationship' or'more much money'or 'strong feeling' or 'more anymore'..After the women arrive in the second step,they wanna in thÃrd step get'marriage' or'control ur money after becoming ur wife'or'have the babies and get more strong family-feelings'.......
People,in some degree are same. 'when arriving at in the step,he wanna go to the next step' well,same as u,when u have business......
I think it is better to u---'relax'.u can tell these women clearly about 'u can not offer more to them,and they can choose on 'still stay with u 'or'leave from u'I think these women are cheap,they just wanna get some or more from men..u or another men to them,it is not different.
Please respect ur wife,i think.if it is possible,better u go to ur wife and babies's side,to live,to work.becasue 'family',nothing can replace it!
good luck!
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your strategy only works for short term affairs. the longer a relationship continues the more likley it is that emotions will be involved - yours as well as your girlfriends' - and, as love can die (eg you and your wife grow emotionally apart) so it can grow (eg you grow as fond of a new girlfriend as she does of you).
It is not only women who change.
I'm curious how you would deal with one of your girlfriends becoming pregnant and refusing an abortion - another potential "complication" of these part-time physical relationships unless you have been "snipped"!
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Hey Man ......
you are not being honest ...... even if you did tell the ladies you are married with child ...... you probably also indicated that you do not really have feelings for them .... Try tell the ladies that you are only interested in their bodies and see if you get what you get ..... YOU are basically playing with feelings and sex is the result of it and not the other way around....... If you want sex only, then go to prostitutes and see if you will derive any feelings.
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One day you also run the risk of falling in love with one of your other women.
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i m agree with someones talking--u are not honest! u told some women about 'u have got married and some babies',that means u tell these women'hi,u can choose whether u wanna stay and sex with me or not..if u choose me,please do not complain about me in the future..because u choose it by urself after knowing about the turthes of my family'
well,man,u just wanna leave from ur responisiblities in relationships and take all mistakes to these poor women!
hehe,,,u are cheating urself..........
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sicn
16 yrs ago
If you can change your agreement with your wife in a religious and sexual sense, why can't those women change their agreement with you in whatever emotional or financial sense? Most smart business men know that the ones truely honor their agreements would not do any business with ppl who don't.
Judging from your age and life experience, you could have asked a better question than that.
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Man, we have lived in the same scenario . . . but might have ended differently. I do love my wife and kids no less than when I was not yet in HK.
But i think you forget or slipped on the basic priniciple a man should hold on to this kind of relationship. Simple, here it is. " The moment you say you LOVE me, it's the end of it". I hope you got what i mean. You let them develop that basic feeling to make them start to change things.
Best of it, you need drastic change to move out. Accept whatever they would say from your back and stand firm on it. Tell them straight forward . . . That you never loved them. That you love your family. You have guts to get into it, must have balls to go out from it . . . Stick to your family.
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hmm wonder what poor wifey thinks of your idea of total honesty?
did you give her the green flag to 'satisfy physical needs onu' with 4 men in ten yrs, so long as she remained married to u?
really the cheek of somebody asking why women change the rules even though they know the 'ground rules'.
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MJ1
16 yrs ago
With that attitude, I guess you won't mind if your wife has slept around with other guys in the last 10 years...
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Hate to break it to you but happily married men do not cheat on their wife. You are unhappy and your marriage is all but a sham.
That is why these women you meet think you are MBA (married but available) and they can change you. You are deluded if you think that you are faithful. If you are faithful then you won't mind telling your wife you ahve been having sex with women in her absence? Yes, thought not.
I am wondering actually whether your marriage has been prolonged by living most of your adult life away from each other! Your wife is obviously with you still solely for the money as she is raising the kids alone on the other side of the world and using you as an ATM machine.
I don't know many women outside Army wives who would put up with 10 years away from their husband and still call it marriage if the man wasn't paying for her lifestyle.
MJ1's comment is telling. How would you react to news your wife has been cheating on you for 10 years?
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You should have titled it, "Married but unfaithful".
One day what you're doing will backfire and your wife will find out and she will leave you. Some women cannot separate their sexual needs from their emotional needs and you've found that out. Well one day, whilst your wife is visiting, one of these women will expose your secret by constantly calling you or leaving their belongings lying around. Who knows, friends or neighbours who know you may expose you also. It is just a matter of time.
When you are unfaithful, you risk losing your family.
Maybe your wife knows and only using you for the money AND maybe she's doing the same thing to you. Just as much as she thinks, "My husband would NEVER do this to me", maybe you too think that she won't do it and she is.
You know, it's funny you should ask why do these girls change YOUR terms and conditions. Why should they? You didn't keep yours to your wife and those conditions were LEGAL... so why do you expect others to keep theirs to you?
Sorry, I know you said not to comment on the cheating but I can't help it.
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Altec can't control his "girls" the same way he can't control the comments in this thread as he would like it. It's apparent people here and the girls have brains and hearts.
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End the relationship with ohter women, love your wife /family as many as possible.
Why not faithfull your wife.
Other women can accept you, i think there is only exist the physical need, not any more, except that woman love you.
If you do not want to the war happen in your family, end the relationship right now.
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ONLY ONE ? WHAT WILL U DO IF YOUR WIFE HAVE 4 OR MORE PARTNERS BUT SHE IS FAITHFUL AND LOVE U AND HAVE NO INTENTION OF LEAVING U SHE ALSO DO SAME LIKE U ONLY FOR PHYSICAL NEEDS.
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We all have physical needs, some can control and some cannot. Unfortunately, you are one of those who can not control.
People change. It is reality. Simple. Maybe they fall inlove. I do not know...I have never been in such a situation before.
You have signed a "binding contract" with your wife when you get married but you yourself have changed.
I hope you can figure the answer yourself...
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There are three areas that need to be kept in control in any relationship first keep your head and let your heart go and after a while your heart will control your head ...... but never never never let your groin control either your heart or your head .... you got it all wrong yes YOU got it wrong and as for making some binding agreement well that is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever heard - there are consequences for everything you do and if you ask me you did not consider the lives and feelings of others only those of a small part of your body - perhaps next time bind up your groin and then have fun in the relationship.
The only reason these two women changed their position in your binding agreement is because you took them there by deciet ..............
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well Altec can see he got more than he bargained on by revealing his story so won't add fuel to the fire
i think, unless these partners are either very young or definitely in it for the short term, they're going to think about you romantically eventually. they are giving up the goods are they not? and unless you're literally leaping out of the bed after shoplifting the poodie, showering and going home, there's going to be cuddling, jokes, pet names, birthday presents and celebrations... with all of that going on, physical attachment's bound to lead to emotional attachment
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............ decieving yourself first and in turn decieving them ......
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if man often plays with fire,somedays he will be burned .....:)
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really...are you kidding me with this?! if you want your so called 'physical needs' met, then go to mong kok or sham shui po- there are loads of brothels and women there who might be of service to you. that way, they can't get emotionally attached to you, capice?!
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stjo
16 yrs ago
You know what? you are a disgrace. Does your WIFE know anything about this? I guess not or if she had any sense she'd have run a mile at least. My husband travels extensively leaving me and our kids and I know without a shadow of a doubt that he is totally faithfull to us HIS FAMILY. Or else what's it all for? GROW UP MAN.
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What's the terms and conditions you and the women have?
To make it easy next time, your should honestly tell the ladies what you really need from them is their body to serve your physical needs.
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Just a typical HK "bachelor" who is too cheap to pay for the kind of sex he wants i.e. no attachments. Well wake up brother and grow up I wish I had your wife's phone number I would copy this to her.
I am in HK
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so much wrath
from all the jealous men who haven't had the same opportunity
and the offended women cause one of theirs own is breaking the rules
good wind up altec320
you've got a lot of knickers in a twist
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People are not machines you can program to think and feel, things can and will change over a period of time. If shagging is all you want, why dont you just pay for it? No strings attached... otherwise, dont expect someone whose company and time you want on a regular basis not to want something back for all their efforts.
I initially felt sorry for your wife back home, but after consideration realised that your marriage sounds like a business deal also... she probably is aware and turns a blind eye, she probably has someone keeping her company back home anyway.
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Altec,
I am a woman, and am having a relationship with a married man - also in his late 40s but he has no children. Both of us are adults, and we know he is not going to jeopardize his marriage for me. He is attracted to me.... my body, looks, attitude.... (not sure if you call that love).... .... I am not exactly attracted to him, but am flattered by his admiration.
Whenever he has the house to himself, we make love in his bedroom. When I do find someone to retire with, I'll leave him. He'll let me go as well. this is a unspoken, but mutual understanding. I am having this affair only for the sex part. And the only reason I 'll not end up wanting more commitment from his is that I don't love him.
I know this makes me a 'bad' person.... but I don't really care what other say.
We sleep together without ever letting his wife know... so, no one gets hurt eventually.
Women have needs.... so do men. sometimes, we do make love without actually loving the other person. this is just better than doing it ourselves...
So, Altec, the short answer to your question : those two women started liking you for real.
Emotional investment is the heaviest type of investment in a relationship.
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sicn
16 yrs ago
well said flashback. indeed, a sad life that always has to be in the shadow.
If all these arrangements are for the better salary, career, that is even worse than "the working lady" who "work" to supporting her family. At lease her family won't be supprised by what she has to do for work.
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ginger_7
Get a grip on reality. You're hurting your lover's wife every time you're in HER bed. How do you live with yourself?
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altec , your doing something wrong. Hong Kong is just win win for everyone and posting disguised advertising of your services as questions should pull in many more less confused ladies who understand and symaphize with your physical needs. Ive been here 10 years and its all good with no problems infact they simply demand more and more of the 'no strings deal' and only want to attend to my physical needs. So what are YOU doing wrong?
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Altec, if this has been said, all apologies, but after reading most posts it seemed everyone was keen to just get in their gibes at you rather than answer your question.
Simply put, MOST women and men react differently because they're wired differently. The hormones released during orgasm include oxytocin, the 'bonding' hormone (no, not 'bondage'). Give a woman an orgasm, and she's more likely to "bond" to you, even if only on a minor level...or until Monday morning. Personally, I've experienced this, and it's a rush. But it is what it is and certainly no reason to go picking out china patterns.
If you're looking for a 2nd sexual encounter with a woman, or an actual relationship, then knowing what you're doing in bed is a good first step.
Look, we're all grownups here and this isn't the Victorian era. And obviously yours are not the first children to be raised with an absentee father. Just expect as much love and care from them as you've provided and you won't be disappointed. As for your question about why women change 'the rules', isn't their penchant for rule breaking what attracted you to them in the first place? Sex a la carte is exciting, fun, and quite natural given our biology.
Do yourself a favor and learn to appreciate the fairer sex from between their ears too, not just their legs. Then this sort of "rules change" will make sense to you.
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you're apologizing to a cheat and a liar? what next
don't know what they did in the Victorian era but what you're saying is that we've moved on from those darks days of honesty and commitment in a relationship to a more advanced and enlightened form of interaction which involves breaking your marriage vows and doing what you like with no consideration for your partner at all.
this is stating the obvious but the marriage is a sham. if you're going to go down that path at least show some fortitude in the cojones area and divorce
another suggestion that HK is all win win is all well and good but the man is married
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ginger_7 ~ you said, "I am not exactly attracted to him, but am flattered by his admiration."
I find it hard to comprehend that any woman would want to have sex with a man she admits she is not attracted to ... unless, of course, she is nothing more than a whore .....
Also, you said, "I know this makes me a 'bad' person.... but I don't really care what other say. We sleep together without ever letting his wife know... so, no one gets hurt eventually."
If you honestly believe that his wife will never find out, you are obviously very naive. One day she will no doubt notice your perfume or the vile smell of your body on her bed sheets, or maybe a stray hair that she knows doesn't belong to her. I hope you get everything that you deserve if she one day finds out.
And before anyone attacks me, no, I am not a woman scorned ... just someone who knows right from wrong. There are plenty of men and women out there without having to take someone else's husband/wife ... and without making someone else's life miserable when they eventually find out.
To the OP, it's one thing to have a long distance relationship, but if you can't be faithful to your wife, what's the point in being married to her? If she ever found out, she's probably be devastated ... do you not care? You obviously don't love her, because if you did, you wouldn't want to cause her any pain, would you??
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sicn
16 yrs ago
This post sadly reminds me of another post I read in this forum: Is relacating to Asian bad for your marriage: being an expact in places like asia where unfaithfunessl is not only widely practised but also a social norm, is considered desirable style of life. I want to know how people think of this kind of "post Victoria time": Marriage vow is a celerbrated lie; people shall choose to have sex with ones they don't like; and lastly, damn the faithful and commited hubbies or wives: cause they don't know how to give themselves a life
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u need: clear attitude --telling the fact that u r married esp if u r very charming or great on bed.
money---to stop girlfirend's complain
let it go--------if she is difficult to handle
do not give any promise or commitment.
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jasmine525
You don't get it. He's committing adultery and you're giving him advice on how to do it. He shouldn't be doing it at all. Why would you encourage someone to do something so despicable? It's sickening.
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pumkin, u r right i am sorry
i just do not want judge him morally.
he wants phisical relationship only. that's the best advise i can give.
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i realised many authors of the replies to either altec or myself are mostly self righteous.
get this - i did not ask for advise - on moral grounds or otherwise.
and pls get a grip of reality, there are wrongdoings including selfish ones going on each and every day.
stop providing your 'thou shalt not' advices here or on any other forums.
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ginger_7
This is a public forum. People have the right to express their opinions, that's what it's all about. And by the way, you didn't start this thread in the first place.
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What absolute drivel, Im just surprised by how many people have been taking in by it..!!
Best advise to you is to find a business lady where it becomes a purely business transaction or even better still, use your left or right hand. No relationship, no money spent and no commitment from either side. Grow up, extent your IQ past three and a half and stop looking for your next conquest on this site..!! All great stuff, but so pathetic too..!!
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I was involved with a married man for several years. He probably still is, one of the most talented liars and cheaters I have ever met. He lived in New York and I, in Hong Kong. I broke it off when I returned from New York after a solo trip and found out he was married all the time.
To address the question on this forum by some readers. What don't men use a professional? It's a question first of ego (money too) and secondly, there is the real possibility of a satisfying emotional bonding in an on going relationship. Oxytocin is produced by kissing alone. You don't need to have sex to have that. My ex boyfriend was literally "thriving" in every respects when I was with him. He was bored with his wife and was looking for stimulating intellectual, emotional and physical excitement. He found it and was happily leading 2 lives until I pulled the plug.
Women nearly always lose out, no matter how you cut it. Why? Because we are not built like men. I've always lived by the maxim "In order to penetrate my body, you first have to penetrate my heart". Most women do not comfortably f **k and run. It's not in our make up. Therefore those 2 ladies who wanted something more are simply being ... women.
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Altec,
Don't feel so bad. Just think...your wife is probably posting a similar forum discussing the same topic on the other side of the world except she is naive enough to think and feel sorry for you because she is cheating behind your back while you are "hard" working your butt to make money to support the family.
So this is what Ying Yang is all about. If you want your "Ying" then she needs her "Yang" too.
It always go in full circle.
(I am based in HK)
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altec320
just stop - i know its difficult - but just stop with the girl who is trying to be pushy and attach with you.
find somebody new or better still as some body suggested - massages with happy endings.
mls1989
your points are absolutely correct. guess experience speaking
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the question you should ask is your wife. she is a wpman the same like other women. one more paper not really means any speciall!
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"What I need to know (from women) is why do you, after settling into a relationship (with agreed terms and conditions) believe that you can change them."
How very hypocritical altec320...the same question can be asked of you. Why did you, after entering into the institution of marriage (with agreed terms and conditions such as fidelity and monogamy) believe that you can then be a lying, cheating SOB just because of your "needs"?
If life was so black and white and ppl could control themselves and do exactly as they "should" then you wouldn't be cheating on your wife. Grow a brain and grow up!
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sicn
16 yrs ago
Women have prerogatives and so do you. One is to change your mind. The conditions of a casual relationship are hardly binding. Why do you think they are? Your question makes me wonder how much are you paying these girls?
You don't believe your wife knows what you are doing. She won't make a big deal out of it. Why would she?
It has been 10 years, she gets a lot of money every month from someone she used to know. She is able to make all of the decisions and all she has to do is put up with you for a week or two once or twice a year. As long as you stay occupied with the cheap babes, your wife is King of the Hill. She comes and goes as she wishes.
Your question is self deceiving. Most people are upset with you because you are not trustworthy. You have already decided to lead ths unorthodox life style and are blinded by the carnal pleasure you are receiving. I'll bet that you think your problem is that the cheap babes start to expect too much.
So remember this response down the road when your wife legally changes the terms and conditions of her relationship with you that she settled into. You probably won't remember the names of your babes but you will always remember your wife. Alimony never lets you forget.
Dust your tracks, clean up, and bring your wife to HK. It is a blast. Have fun with her and live your life with the one person who counts.
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Dude,
I feel your pain. I can no believe the amount of stupid advice you get. The Women will enter into the relatioship with because they think they have the power to change it. I believe you will tell them you are married and will not change that but still the want to be with you and then want to change you. This is typical women behavior. Yours is typical mens behavior. I suggest do what you do and never ask for advice!
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MS123
16 yrs ago
Stop cheating the poor women!!! They are human being, have mother as well!!!
Married man just self-defensively tells women of his background then keeps dating them WARMLY & PASSTIONATELY, potentially giving wrong signals to the stupid women and earn warmheart from women and enjoy feast of lust. After great intimacy, man says that nothing I could give as I mentioned from 1st day that I have married and you knew very well. In the meantime gets consent from people that no cheating on it. It is just a TRAP from married man!!!!
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Frankly, I agree with most of what is being said.
Do your stuff. It's your life, and you choose. But really, what the hell are you doing asking such questions in public for ? What do you expect ?
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you are a loser, really. anyone can get a girlfriend in asia especially a westerner so don't think you are anything special. why bother being married, unless your wife agrees with some sort of open marriage and we stay together for the kids then it is just dishonest. your kids will work it out when they are older and you will not be a person to look up to. i realise it is hard being in another country without your partner but then don't do it - money, schools is not worth it if you don't see your kids.
go back to the real world where you won't pick up a girlfriend at the drop of the hat what you are doing is quite disguisting.
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Mr. late 40's, if u don't want any advice u shouldn't be posting here to let all unknown people to read about yr story. Obviously, u're quite pround of what u have been doing. But, I think u don't have any idea of what love really means at all and u just want to take advantages. Love includes considering and sacrifices especially as parents and I'm sure u don't have any one of them. Yr body may appeared like human but yr mind is just no different than an animal. I wonder how will u give advice to yr kids on relationships issue...........!#?@!#?@
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Dude, I agree. Stop Cheating.
INVOLVE her! I bet she has some "fun" ideas of
her own.
She is your wife. If you can't talk to her, your
Marriage is over anyway. People grow, but people
also have different needs at different times. Think about that.
Communication is key to ANY relationship.
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Way to bring forth potential candidates, Altec! Absolutely brilliant! I vote Ginger.
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Hello Altec...are you still here?
This thread is a load of rubbish. Altec, you've put yourself into this rut and you should get yourself out of it. Your wife should be made known about what you're doing in Asia and you might as well consider your marriage over. Very sad.
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jeric
16 yrs ago
You are cheating on your wife. Yet, you call yourself faithful? Totally absurd !!!
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I'll tell you what you need to know.
Tell your wife and get a divorce so that she can find a better father for her children.
Then you can have whatever "agreements" with whoever you want.
The problem is with people like you, that you have become so distorted from humanity that you think that making love and what not can just be physical "agreements" and hold no significance.
That is absolutely wrong and just plain idiotic.
I'll say it once more:
Get a divorce, you should live alone with no family and let your wife find a better father for her children that won't fool around for ANY reason.
You will have girlfriends, you will have sex, and you will die alone.
That is the life you should live to fulfill what you truly want.
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2 possibilities:
1) Some people go into a relationship like that with the verbal agreement to not wanting more whilst hoping that more would come of it
2) People have feelings and may end up wanting more as feelings grow
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cnd43
16 yrs ago
The whole point of marriage is being together, and If you have been apart for 10yrs, there is no marriage. If you want to have a marriage or your wife for that matter you have to be together. The lame excuses you give for being apart are worthless. Either you get back together with your wife now, and I doubt that will happen, then pull the pin and walk, because of now there is no marriage and you probably both know it. Unless you sort the core problem you will just go on making a fool of yourself till the party is over and one day it will be over.
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D888
16 yrs ago
I will tell you, WOMEN always think they can change men. It is as easy and simple as it is.
Good Luck
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you are a liar and a cheater and now you seek salvation.
I agree with JonnyHongKong.
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