If I had known then, what I know now

Minimize Mistakes by using Divorce Counseling

Experience is a great teacher and I am willing to share my experience with you.‎

My personal experience thought me that it was a mistake to hire a divorce lawyer and then leave it up to ‎that lawyer … and without any‏ ‏guidance on how to manage the lawyer and the relationship with him/her.‎

I have just another new client that needed to change a lawyer since her case was a ‘small money case’ ‎which did not draw the right attention from her lawyer, causing her case to be lengthy and costly.‎

Clients come to me with more horror stories, spending hundreds of thousands of HK$, even before the first ‎hearing (First Appointment). ‎

Divorcing people are serving/being served petitions without knowing about ‘Joint Application” option – ‎which is cheaper, shorter and more amicable way to divorce. ‎

If I had known then, what I know now, I would have done represented myself from the first step in my ‎divorce, and not only at a later stage - my appeal in the High Court of Hong Kong.‎

That, in my opinion, makes me the best person to look out for these interests for any one in a need. ‎

One thing is crucial in the process – information and knowledge. Just before stepping into a legal firm – let ‎me share with you the procedures and the options that are available to you in order to ease the process ‎and allow you to understand where you are ‘going’ and act in a proactive manner. Whether you hire a ‎lawyer or represent yourself.‎

Make sure you go into divorce ‘equipped’ so you don't come away from divorce with remorse.‎

There is nothing I can agree more.

There is no one who know what is better for you except you.

As i claim, Information is the key - and that's what u did - researches and know your rights.

My point is that not everyone, in the middle of the emotional storm, can do it. And not everyone has a party that wishes to divorce amicably (joint application, for example).

Can-do attitude is great to have in general and in divorce, in particular.

If you both can solve the problem - there is nothing better than it - however, many cases are not like that, many people do not compromise, as they are hurt, afraid, feel guilty, frustrated, feel weak , do not work, etc ... Which impact their actions and decisions ...

So, beefing proactive is the best way to go - however there are more then on way to go proactive.

So , I am glad to know that more people are choosing this way, by the,selves or with the help of a professional.

Have a good day.

This is all fine if both parties are rational and willing to move on, not to mention avoid impacting any children involved. I 100% agree that divorce laywers can mess up communication between you and your ex and inevitably clock up the fees. Its a big game to them. They (majority) play to win with the legal letter of the law, not necessarily to find a swift, amicable outcome that is fair and equitiable to both sides. Their advice is also bias due to their position as their client's legal counsel and coupled with their (what I call) 'sickness' to win from a legal perspective, they put demons and doubt in people's minds and cloud the way to an amicable and swift outcome. Of course law makers are not going to want to take food out of their own mouths by encouraging mutual mediation by independent and experienced professional counsellors, but we as a society needs to. I think we are likely to see more divorces not less in the future should promote this. I am still going through the legalities of my divorce (under Australian law) but to this point it has been amicable. There was however a low point of around 2-3 months where our laywers had infected the both of us before I made a desperate plea to my former partner to speak to me verbally and talk through all the issues on the phone. Of course it was not smooth and needed to be vetted by the laywers afterward, but finally around 4 months later we had completed the financial and property settlement. In the end we agreed to around 65 / 35 % split of our assets, as we have two daughters together, which we wanted to grow up in a certain part of Sydney in Australia due to school choice etc. So with that as the basic agreement still in tact, the numbers spoke for themselves in the end as to what she needed to have a home for them, be as close to debt free as possible with some money behind her for the future (no spousal maintenance under Australian family law) and minimise any hit to our asset pool via selling properties in a hurry etc. Yes, she may have gotten less in court, somewhere around 55-60% of the assets, but at what LEGAL costs?? The pool is only so big. I didnt want all my hard earned savings and wealth eroded by others outside my family. I wanted to maximise what was available for my daughters. Yes it was difficult knowing their mom my ex was getting the money to use as she deemed fit, but that is an unavoidable part of divorce and separating from your partner permanently. If you let the lawyers do it all, and let them infect your thinking and feeling, the pool will definately shrink and the absolute $ amount will surely be less after you have paid the legal bills. Ive heard HK is worse. Legal charges can hit US$300-500 per hour in HK for a reputable lawyer I have heard, that is surely going to chew up your savings and overall asset pool worth and for what? To say you got more % in the end? For me its clear its a loss overall, as you need to remember the time it takes as well. What is your time worth? What price is your sanity and peace of mind to have one of the most stressful and emotional events in your life behind you as quickly and fairly as possible? These are all the questions I asked myself during and now still. Anyone out there going through a divorce, please do yourself a favour and ask yourself some of these and good luck for a swift, peaceful and ultimately amicable outcome without wasting too much on legal fees.

Definitely an eye opener to me. I hope my estranged husband realize we don'y need a lawyer for now. Since he had asked the help of a lawyer, I have not heard a word from him. I even appealed to him to talk to our daughter. I know I gave him a reason also do be asking the aid of a lawyer, but my action was because I was so worried of our daughter's future. If he continues to remain silent, then I have no choice also but to protect myself and my daughter. I will not be spending a lot as I have lawyer friends who are willing to guide and help me, but only if the need arise.

When you say the joint application is shorter, I assume you are talking if both people have been living appart from eachother for 1 year. Is that correct?


It appears my marraige is going the way of divorce as my wife has had an affair for the 2nd time. I don't feel I have any choice and need to start some proceedings. Having said that I also hope we can come to some mutual agreenment financially without dragging the whole thing into a rat hole.


We are currently still living together, so I am thinking the quickest method would be for me to petition and as part of the petition include some financial agreement (assuming we come to terms on something).


I would appreciate any comments, in particular if there is some way to file for the joint application if we are still living together.

Joint application means you and your spouse have agreed to apply together for a divorce. and of course it can be done after you declare 1 year separation. separation can defined - separated under the same roof, meaning you live in different rooms or even in the same one however you and your spouse don't have intimate / physical relationship.

pm me for more information.

so yes, you can still have joint application if she do not object the divorce and you can reach an agreement re finance and children - it is a great way, cheapest way, time saving way to divorce. if there are children - it is the best, as it keeps your relations as father and mother.


pm me for more information.

Experience is a great teacher and I am willing to share mine with anyone who needs it.

YT67, you said your wife had an affair for the 2nd time? As far as I know, you can use adultery as ground for divorce. Check this out:


Divorce

The Law governing divorce is to be found in s.11 Matrimonial Causes Ordinance (MCO) which provides two ways to obtain a divorce: by way of petition or by joint application.


S.11 states five grounds of petition:-


1) That the respondent has committed adultery;

2) That the respondent has behaved in such a way that the petitioner cannot reasonably live with him/her;

3) That the parties have lived apart for one year with consent;

4) That the parties have lived apart for two years;

5) That the respondent has deserted the petitioner for one year.


If you have proof of your wife's affair, then you can use it and file for divorce petition.

how do you prove that somone committed adultery?

lllsss


I have tried PM'ing you but didn't seem to see any response.


It appears counselling is not working for us and there is no other choice but to end the marraige. My wife and I are open to filing a joint declaration under the grounds of not having a physical / intimate relationship for the last year. We have also come to agreement financially.

dear YT67


i didnt get any pm from you.

joint application + joint agreement is great.


The case of a Joint Application (which means again, that you and your spouse have agreed to apply together for a divorce), you need to fill in:


Form 2C Joint application

Form 2D Statement as to the arrangements for children (if applicable)

All forms you need are available from the Family Court Registry and may be completed in English or Chinese. When you have filled them in, take them to the Family Court Registry for filing (Floor M2) , together with your original marriage certificate or a certified true copy. The filing fee is $630. You will be given a case number, which must be marked on any subsequently filed documents.

very helpful. thanks for the information.

lllsss i have sent you a pm