Stay in Marriage or Opt Out ?



ORIGINAL POST
Posted by HeelsinHK 15 yrs ago
Am terribly lost, I married my husband after a off again on again relationship. We got married after the last courtship/ decision long distance. I moved to HK after giving up stuff in NY to join him here.


One yr over and barely any physical action, like once a month at most. In the beginning it could have been due to my very frequent travel. But after all this long waiting period and many confrontations (discussions) he admitted that he isnt attracted to me. That I am fat and dress sloppy.

Which would have been a true reason if other men werent attracted to me and if I was a slob throughout or had changed etc etc. He's known me for over 5 yrs now. How come he realises he's not attracted me AFTER all this while ? Besides I think things were ok 3 yrs ago when we were dating in the same city.


He admits thinking abt other women and mast**bating often . I moved out day before from our apt and am now staying in a cubby hole in the wall till I can understand what to do.


I have a feeling its because of a woman in his office, who is very attractive and I think had the thing for him, but maybe he realised it late that he liked her as well... .maybe after we got married..Besides when I asked him if he wanted to date other women he mentioned not while we were married... which means he's obviously thought abt it. It was an immediate answer..


So what should I do ?

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COMMENTS
Slammy 15 yrs ago
Do you think your husband is the right man for you? Are you madly in love with him?


I'm inclined to say that as you've only been married a year and there's no kids... plus it was an on-again, off-again relationship... and now he's just came out and downright insulted you by saying you're fat and sloppy... plus there's no bedtime action - don't you think you should just get out of the relationship and get a divorce?


If you end up doing that... try not to get too depressed about giving up things in NY. Think of this more as something that brought you to HK and introduced you to new experiences/country/friends. (just trying to put a positive spin on things... :-) )


Also, I don't think you need to analyse too much about the reasons why, such as is it the woman in the office etc etc... just look at the situation as it stands now and think about whether this is what you want for the rest of your life. He doesn't sound like a loyal, loving partner to me. You could do better.

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HeelsinHK 15 yrs ago
I think he's a very attentive ear, great shoulder to cry on, sometimes indulgent husband... but then Ive been thinking its also not like I do spending etc that would be classified as beyond normal. Now I wonder if he allowed me my crazy business trips and requests to visit my family coz he didnt really need me around... he wont hv cheated on me I know (but not outof love, it would be more out of duty as a husband)


Quite frankly, love is always a question about getting involved with someone and then having to do without the person.... Nothing is impossible.


Having been married, the reason I even ask this question is pure cold logic, it isnt easy to get another person with a similar mind frame, and in the same mode as oneself (to settle down).


I hit 30 2 months ago and there was no bday party, no special treatment, nothing.... I bought myself a cake... and no..there was no physical action either.


So maybe the poor man isnt in it at all. thts the whole reason Im on this post.. Even if I want to stay in it just coz of simple cold logic... there wont b any heart in it... forget love... But is love important ?

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
You will probably have seen other posts by people with similar questions: about getting married without love, because the woman is getting old... or staying in a marriage because there's kids but there's no love left.


Most of the posts end up with the same summary: better to be free and single than in a loveless marriage.


I see the positive things you write about him, and it's true that it's difficult to find that perfect match... but the main emotion that's coming out of your posts is feeling a lack of love, rejection, sadness. You want to feel like this for the rest of your life?


It sounds like the both of you have reached a point where you're wondering if it's possible to remain together. You've approached him about therapy etc but he's not been too interested.


Don't give up on love just because you hit 30. I got married when I was 35 and now I'm pregnant with my second child. I met my husband when I was 32 or 33.


And I would say... yes love is important.

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
Oh I should add that the reason why I didn't feel bad about being single at 30ish was because many of my friends were in the same situation, and they were good looking, intelligent and fun people.


And by the way, we're all married with kids now, and it all happened for us in our early to mid 30s.

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TXcowboy 15 yrs ago
"So what sould I do?" worry no more, for your favorite cowboy came to the rescue.


Your post has many questions if one cares to read between the lines, so let's get started:


"I married my husband after a off again on again relationship."


And you didn't see that "on and off" thing as a red light because?...because you didn't want to lose the years of emotional investment, so you got married all the same. My point is: You should not marry that guy. Then again, I know is a bit late for this point, but I need you to understand the roots of your problems.


"One yr over and barely any physical action, like once a month at most."


And you didn't see that as a dozen red lights because...? Yes I know, you wanted to make the rationale that everything was wrong due to external causes (i.e. your frequent travels). Even if you travelled frequently, the 1 day a month you saw each other you would be totally satisfied and say "I only have it once a month...but boy let me tell ya!". But then again, this was not the case. Even when you had it, I bet it wasn't so good.


"he admitted that he isnt attracted to me. That I am fat and dress sloppy.

Which would have been a true reason if other men werent attracted to me and if I was a slob throughout or had changed etc etc."


And that your husbands says ON YOUR FACE that he is not attracted to you doesn't strike you as a river of red lights, all shiny and blinking because...? Don't tell me, I know. You think that other guys find you attractive. "Other guys" will always complement women because this is who we are suppose to be. Also, "other guys" will want to hook up with you because to us men sex is a biological function that can hardly be controlled. In other words (I don't mean to be rude but to get my point accros) there will always be desperate guys willing to hook up with fat women in their 30s.


But that's not the problem. Your husband doesn't find you attractive. He told you so himself, and yet you say that that is "not true"...well, look at the facts: If he was attracted to you you would have better and more frequent sex.


"He's known me for over 5 yrs now. How come he realises he's not attracted me AFTER all this while ?"


My educated guess: You are 5 years older and 5 years fatter.


"He admits thinking abt other women and mast**bating often . I moved out day before from our apt and am now staying in a cubby hole in the wall till I can understand what to do."


While I understand fully and agree to you feeling hurt and moving out, I want to give you a male perspective: He was honest with you and his "reward" was you moving out. He is likely not to make that "mistake" (being honest to you) again.


"I have a feeling its because of a woman in his office, who is very attractive and I think had the thing for him, but maybe he realised it late that he liked her as well..."


Let me give you a fact of life: Unless your hubby is 70, no healthy man will spend a month without sex. I am not guessing, I am telling you, 100% guarantee or your money back, that he is already getting serviced elsewhere. He probably had that before, too, but if he is in HK and he is a western guy, with a wife that he is not attracted too and with women who literally jump on us (western guys) at every chance they get...is not a brainer, trust me.


"Now I wonder if he allowed me my crazy business trips and requests to visit my family coz he didnt really need me around..."


I would change "need" by "want". Otherwise you are right in the money. When a man really likes a woman he calls her all the time and wants to spend as much time with her as possible. Let me give you an example: I have someone who would frequently travel to Europe. Well, I will make sure to make my holidays or business trips to match those trips so I could spend more time with her. By the way, I was living with that person and I saw her every day, yet it wasn't enough for me nor for her.


He didn't want you around. Trust me.


"he wont hv cheated on me I know (but not outof love, it would be more out of duty as a husband)"


Make your fame and go to sleep- In other words, I bet he himself uses the word "duty as a husband". Is one of the oldest tricks in the book. When an ugly gal approaches he made sure you see him telling her that "he couldn't do it because he is married". Then, with the trust won, he can do whatever he likes.


Why not putting your sure statement to a test? Pretend to go to a business trip for a week. On the third day, follow him after he leaves work. You will be surprised.


"But is love important ?"


Love is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING you can have with your husband. You just hit 30 and you are already eating cakes alone and sexless...do you think your life is going to get any better?


The fundamental question I bet you don't dare to ask yourself is: ARE YOU HAPPY? The answer is obvious: Nope.


I am going to be honest. 30 and overweight (if you are over 120lbs you are overweight no matter what other women tell you. I am a guy, remember) you are over the hill for guys like me. But it seems you don't have kids (which would totally kill you for the dating life). You may not be a player for the major leagues anymore, but you may still be too good for the "fat balding guy who makes <$80k per year" category. You have one last chance to be happy, but you need to act fast.


1. Get divorce.

2. Hit the gym until you are in the 110lbs-120lbs range.

3. Start dating, and keep dating until YOU are happy. Be alone if you have to, but don't settle for unhappiness.


Now I going to ride to the sunset, so have a good night.


TX.

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sexyboop 15 yrs ago
Heelsinhk, the whole story largely hinges on your husband - his character, attitudes (how did he treat you apart from the sex bit?) and response (especially your previous attempts and after you moving out?) which you comparatively little mentioned in the posts here, including the missing link of the period between your first post 3 months ago and this most recent one.


Yet all these factors and information that attributed to your thorough considerations and our less biased advice on your situation/marriage have become rubbish now (phew~~~~~) from the moment you took a bold step to move out, wasn't it already a way of no return, if not a dead end decision you made for yourself?


Choose to forget but never regret at how much you've sacrificed for the relationship, all worth it as long as it's out of your own free will when you did it, even it ends up in vain. Also a misbelief to your own disadvantage that there's no body else on this planet who can be compatible (mind frame, personality, etc) with you. Love is all about chemistry!

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HeelsinHK 15 yrs ago
@beancurd and sexyboop

Well, I had posted a similar query in June last year, which I deleted, waited and then posted the one 3 months ago. The issue is more than simply fat, coz I know 9 months ago I was fairly fit and so was I 3 months ago... I cornered him with a request for marriage counselling a few months ago which he didnt acknowledge.... and well stuff was regular (not there).


Funnily it takes a while and some gumption to come out (even if its anonymous) on a msg board with a personal issue,... took me a while too.


So yes, I moved out coz I got angry and wanted to think straight logically and not react emotionally. Denial can last only so long, if one wants to correct it then there is counselling...if not.. then maybe he just lost the lust.. I dont need brotherly love in a marriage...


BTW @TXcowboy, I married a balding pot belly.. but it was not for the looks ,it was for the person. Thats the irony of it all.


Frankly the way I see it, if he wants me, then it has to be a wholesome marriage. How can I know he's ok to think and mast**bate abt other women and not be interested in touching me; and say he loves me.


So either I make my peace with the situation and go back, he never promised me he'll b attracted to me. Its a safe and frustrating haven. OR he understands that this is weirdly abnormal. If he wants a size 0, then he had his chance, why did he chase me over the continents. I was never a size 0, I was always a size 8..and at 5ft8 thts not too bad.


Anyhow if anyone has any therapist numbers etc, pls share.

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rainbow1980 15 yrs ago
Only thing is you thought you couldn't fall in love with another person again... but actually you will. because many of us did fall in love after we thought we couldn't.

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mammina 15 yrs ago
Hello HeelsinHK!


Get out while you still can,while there still is no child in the middle.

It wont be that easy to get divorced when there is another life to consider apart from your's.


You just turned 30(by the way I got married when I turned 30),you still have your future ahead of you.The longer you wait to divorce that LOSER,the longer you are wasting your precious years.


We only live once,dont waste it by getting stuck in relationships that isn't good for you.


Stop thinking about the reasons why your husband pursued you while you were continents away......I've meet so many women who drops everything just to be with their boyfriends,only to realize that when they actually live with them(after giving up careers,and leaving everything behind), their dreams of happy endings gets crushed by the reality that their boyfriends arent really everything that they thought they would be.


Cheer up my dear..... a divorce isnt the end of your world..... view it as a beginning of the rest of your life.


Celebrate it,because you will free yourself from a repressive,awful relationship.


Remember,NOTHING LASTS FOREVER.... even MISERY:)





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HeelsinHK 15 yrs ago
Thanks,

Besides this time I'll go to gym and be a size 6. But does that mean that if and when Ive had kids he'll be uninterested again ?

If not in the beginning then there will be nothing later.. am sure he feels repressed too if he has a woman he's not attracted to living with him and maybe he thinks it was a mistake to chase me too ...


whtever the case, all therapists numbers are welcome. No use delaying this forever, nothings gonna change

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
"Funnily it takes a while and some gumption to come out (even if its anonymous) on a msg board with a personal issue,... took me a while too."


Yes and part of the reason for that is acknowledging that there is a serious problem.


Heels - there's nothing wrong with your weight. But I would say that what you've been through has probably dented your self-esteem and your happiness.


Listen to what the people on the forum tell you - get a divorce, move forward and start to enjoy your life and yourself again. Men are attracted to women who are fun, self-confident, and believe in their own sex appeal.


I know a few people who fell madly in love but they were just doomed relationships. They tried so hard to make it work because they believed it was their soulmate and they would never find another person like that. But you know what? They all moved on and met someone even better!


Whether or not you move on to meet someone better is not the consideration here though. You can't survive in this relationship - you said it yourself "you don't want brotherly love", and "nothing's gonna change".


So why delay even more by asking for therapists? You should consult a divorce lawyer instead.

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TXcowboy 15 yrs ago
@HeelsinHK. First at all, kudos for being honest and exposing your true thinking here. For that reason alone I am not holding back a thing. I rather hurt your feelings so you can get something positive than feed the delusions that many women have been taught since childhood and let you be an old, loveless hag.


This time, I will rebuke some of the comments thrown here:


@HeelsinHK: "I married a balding pot belly.. but it was not for the looks ,it was for the person. Thats the irony of it all."


You couldn't do a guy with looks and personality, so you settled for the best you could. This is part of your current problem. This also tells me that your weight problem is something worse than what it seems and has been a problem for longer than I thought.


"this time I'll go to gym and be a size 6. But does that mean that if and when Ive had kids he'll be uninterested again ?"


Yes. This is called "false pretenses". You were thinner before you were married, then go married and thought yourself with a license to get fat. If you get divorce, you won't attract guys until you are thin again, so you will thin up, catch the next marriable guy, and then get fat again. Then, you will complain that he doesn't love you anymore...I am so on the ballpark, right?


@Cara. Nothing more pathetic than obese old women with an attitude. In fact, I have never met a fat girl who wasn't overly outspoken about how proud she was of her weight and how much she lover herself. These women would meet these losers and say things like "yes, he was in jail and can't hold a job for more than a week, but you don't know him like I do...".


OP, don't listen to Cara. Self-steem will only make you a fat hag with an attitude. Try losing weight and keep yourself slim and you will see how the self-steem will follow.


@Slammy. Nice advice. However, there IS something wrong with her weight. The husband said so, and I am sure he was being polite. I'd say she is on the 160lbs at the very least, which is but a tad under the "Rhino" category. I agree with the rest of your advice, though.


Back to the OP, I just want you to focus on the facts, not on delusions that you watched in Friends or Sex and the City: The fact is that you are lonely and miserable. The fact is that you know that you are fat. Leave that relationship and stick the fork out of your mouth.


I don't think I can be any clearer.



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Shylok 15 yrs ago
I think your problem stems from picking the wrong guy. But the problem before that is your the definition you set for love and marriage. Love is not "off and on again", love is not attraction. Attraction/passion/infatuation/horniness....whatever else you want to call it is not love. Love is ultimately a long suffering, sacrifice and commitment. Love is demonstrated by actions and a track record...it is not just felt. You entered into this marriage blind and guessing what kind of person your husband was. For future lasting joy I suggest you adjust the way you think about love and marriage.

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
@Slammy. Nice advice. However, there IS something wrong with her weight. The husband said so, and I am sure he was being polite. I'd say she is on the 160lbs at the very least, which is but a tad under the "Rhino" category. I agree with the rest of your advice, though.


hahahah.. TXCowboy... I know plenty of "Rhinos" who are happily married to someone who dearly loves them!


I agree that it's good to keep yourself in shape - not necessarily strive to be thin, but be "fit". If you're fit, you're more active, better sex life, can enjoy life more etc etc.


The point I want to make, though, is that we shouldn't be focusing on Heels' weight. This is not the SOLE reason that the relationship is not working and we risk making Heels feel like she brought this on herself and it's her fault.


Men love women of all shape and sizes. Her husband has obviously moved on from the relationship for various reasons and it's not just because Heels is "fat". If Heels lost weight... it's very doubtful that her husband would suddenly turn around and say, hey, I love you again!

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Justin Credible (Part Deux) 15 yrs ago
I dunno, my sister has been going on and on about how she has slimmed down and gotten so "damn fit" that she turns heads when she goes in the room. Now lets face it, I haven't seen my sister in over 2 years, so all I remember is her being fat back then. Now, I recently saw a picture of her on FB at a cousin's wedding a week ago and I was thinking, WTbleep???? She is still the same! How much weight had she gained before that for her to think she is super fit right now?


Alls I am saying is that sometimes women go to the gym for a few days and they think they are fit and that they have a license to eat pizza, as long as they stick to the two toppings rule.


*SMH*


TX Cowboy has said a LOT of spot on stuff...I mean, I know there are a lot of "rhino" women out there who are breathing a sigh of relief that their husbands are still telling them they love em and still throw em a bone from time to time, but are these women seriously saying "I am happy to be fat"? or are they all saying "Well, I lost the battle, so what the hell!" as they spoon another chunk of cheese cake into their mouths?


My advice for OP? One year of lousy marriage and a man that is not attracted to you? You can lose all the weight you want, unless you also become a completely different person he won't be attracted to you anymore than he is now. Weight loss doesn't happen over night, you really think he will love you more when you are "thin" in a year's time? *SMH* Wake up and smell the stench of reality.


My sister-in-law just left her husband. She's 32. She's attractive, fit and super adorable. She won't have a problem finding another man, getting married, having kids (something her husband never wanted and something she falsely believed she was ok with). The future, for her, is wide open. She has confidence, self-esteem and self-awareness.


Good you are on here questioning yourself on your feelings, its never OK for nookie to come your way only once a month, and as TX says, I bet it was krap even when it did...so yeah, Love IS the most important thing when it comes to going the distance, its what keeps good husbands happily married to Rhino's and what keeps Rhino's secure.


That said though, folks get divorced after 30 years, its important not to get too cozy in your lard...its a good thing to try to keep fit, not just for yourself but for your kids and your partner...*shrug* just my thoughts though...No fat person really sits there going "Yeah, I know its a danger to my health, but f it, I am HAPPY!!!" Pshhh....deep down they know the truth.

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tinyteddy 15 yrs ago
Here's a template for you TX


"I am the super hot cowboy that everyone loves. You [insert OP name] are fat, ugly and old. Your value is [rock bottom/below rock bottom]. You should [lose weight to improve yourself/settle for what you can get]. Us men can easily upgrade. Once again I am the high-value super hot cowboy that everyone loves."





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La Isola 15 yrs ago
Hi HeelsinHK,


I feel sorry for you - but you are still young!!! You did the right thing and moved out. Get a divorce from your husband. He DOES NOT LOVE YOU!


Don't waste your precious time. Hit the gym, it will make you feel better and then hit SOHO and LKF :-) there are MILLIONS of guys out there. You will have the time of your live!! Don't stay any minute longer with a man that is not in love with you anymore and honestly : how can you love someone that doesn't even care about your birthday ---- only after ONE year of marriage it sounds like pure hell.

And by the way if someone truly loves you he will love you regardless if you are a 6, 8 or even 10 .....

So get going into the right direction move on get support from your friends and let him go...you will have a tough time now but you will be a much happier person in the long run. And you deserve it!!!

And you are lucky there are no kids involved yet, so you don't have to take anyones but your very own interests into account.

Go for it!


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TXcowboy 15 yrs ago
@Cara. Hopefully you are an English native speaker. Read my entry again and my comment TO YOU. I refuse to lower my intelligence to explain basic English usage.


And by the way, she would only be thin because she is trying to get a guy (husband or otherwise). How do I know that? Simple. If she wanted to be fit for herself, she would be fit already.


@Tinyteddy. I guess I touched a nerve, didn't I?


@Slammy, I fully agree with you, but let me make an observation. Sure there are Rhinos married, but then again, Generally speaking (I intentionally used capital G) we all marry (or get together, or hook up) with the best we can. The problem is that, for women (I don't date men) is hard to wake up, look at the other side of the bed, and find that loser that she only married because her hormones were telling her that is either him or being called "aunty" and live with a cat that you can treat like your own baby. And there are losers aplenty, so obese old hags can still marry...unless they have the genius idea of taking their hubbies to a place where any men, rich or poor, can get a nice pretty thin and young asian beauties who don't nag nor become a huge meat monster once they have the wedding ring and the signed contract.


Anyways, it seems we all agree she should get a divorce and hit the gym, so peace to you all!

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butch 15 yrs ago
Hello!HeelsinHK,


Its better to have a 'painful end' than a 'never ending pain'.


Good luck!

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tinyteddy 15 yrs ago
"@Tinyteddy. I guess I touched a nerve, didn't I?"


Your advice is just predictable mate. Same for every post.

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TXcowboy 15 yrs ago
@Cara. Of course you are an English teacher! How could I question your usage and understanding of the English command? After all, is such a difficult thing to become an English teacher in Asia...I mean, you need a PhD and schools are so tough choosing teachers...is not like anyone with a western face could be an English teacher...what was I thinking!


...but you made a new and interesting point. You may have that wonderful husband who supports you all the way, and if you are fat because you simply can not phisically lose weight (i.e. a temporal medical condition) is all good, but your case is not the general case and we both know it.


We need to deal with generalities, not with an specific case.


By the way, I am sure is not your case, but imagine this: A western couple with kids move to Asia. She gains weight and he knows that, with a couple of kids, "is cheaper to keep her". He can have the thin young asian AND the real wife to take care of the kids, so weight is but a collateral damage, a price to pay so you can keep banging the local secretary knowing that your kids will be fine.


Again, I am sure is not your case, but unless you live in wonderland THAT is the general case.


I stand by my words: If you don't want your husband to fool around, be as pretty or more than the competition. Gaining weight because "s/he should love me for me, not for what I look like" is one of the most insulting things you can do to your partner (man or woman) and, to me, gives the partner full rights to cheat and do whatever s/he likes.


In fact, I have covered many of my coworkers by answering the phone when their wives wanted to confirm that "he was working late" because I believe on this...in fact, every time I talked to one of those wives they spoke almost exactly like you wrote...but I am getting carried away. If I have the time I will open a post to see how many people covered for a friend...is a nice topic and I am sure it will open many eyes.

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
Aahh, this is the problem when you start to debate "generalisations". There are enough examples to reinforce negative stereotypes, and there are plenty of examples that defy those.


So... My Hong Kong makes a good point: people will cheat if they want to, regardless of whether they're married to a "rhino" or not.


Cara makes a good point: there are plenty of men who are happily married and resist temptation, and love their wives for who they are, whether they were big beforehand, got big later etc etc.


TXCowboy makes a good point, however harsh the message is: there are plenty of seedy men out there... In fact, I don't think TXCowboy would disagree about being "a bully" as it's his method to deliver a message with the intent to shock, and foster lively debate!!


So let's not degenerate into insulting each other. :-)


But I would have to disagree with TXCowboy when he said "We need to deal with generalities, not with an specific case".


We ARE trying to advise on a specific case here, and I think we've blown the weight issue out of proportion (no pun intended).

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TXcowboy 15 yrs ago
@MyHongKong, cheating is morally wrong. And I was a BIG time cheater. And as much as I would like to say that I am always right, I knew what I was doing was wrong and there is no excuse for me to cheat...


...unless I was married.


When you cheat you break an agreement of trust between two people. When you marry, you sign a LEGAL contract that has little difference with a business partnership. Both parties enter into the contract with the legal concept of "good faith" (meaning that both parties agree to conduct their business in a manner that benefits both parties the most). When a party breaks part of the contract (by, for instance, misrepresenting themselves) the contract is generally anulled.


You can't so easily null a marriage contract, because in the vast majority of cases the male will end up paying for it. In fact, in EU and US, if a wife cheats and then gets divorced, she will still be entitled to alimony if her salary is less (even a buck less) than her husband's.


Based on the current flawed legal system, I encourage cheating under the false pretense circunstance. In other words, if your wife was thin when you married her, and then she gets fat, you are entitled to cheat because you married her as a thin person. If your wife is sexually active before marriage, and then after marriage she doesn't give you what you want, you can cheat.


Is as simple as that.


So MyHongkong, if you want to cheat, and your wife is thin and gives you sex, why not just DON'T BE MARRIED? Are you (not you per se, you know that I mean) that big of a loser that you need someone else to pay the rent? Can't you afford to live alone? And yes, I know there are plenty of losers our there. After all, that's why the term "co-shared mortgage" was invented for.


And nope, I am not a bully. I am just tired of sugar-coding.


@Slammy. People won't cheat if the following conditions are true (at least for men):

1. Your wife keeps fit and pretty.

2. Your wife doesn't allow you to leave the house "unserviced".


I used to think like you, so I relate to your comment, but consider this: Imagine that you are fully serviced, whenever you want it, in the exact way you like it. All the time, no arguments, no questions asked. Is not that you would no longer find other women attractive, but you will simply say to yourself "why go on a hunt and jump through the hoops of whether she would be too hard to get, whether she would go psycho afterwards, whether my wife will find out, etc...if I already have exactly what I need at home?".


I know, Slammy, this sounds rather radical, but for a second open your mind and think about it. If you have a hot, great looking wife, who give it to you like there is no tomorrow, you wouldn't even think about other women. I know that because I have been there.


Regarding generalizations, please notice that generalizations is the way to go in life. A person may have a specific problem, but you can tell someone to jump from a 20-floors building just because one other person jumped and survive. Generally speaking, you would die.


Finally, again, I wasn't being a bully. And I also don't think bullying is a way to deliver a message. I was being honest. For instance, we all know that being an English teacher in Asia (unless we are talking about career teachers with PhDs in fields related to education) is A JOKE. Are you (or anyone) hurt because I say that your job is a joke? Well then don't try to talk as if you could use your job (that is a joke) as a way to measure your skills because, in all honesty, being an English teacher requires nothing but a western face. I have meet French and Spanish guys working as English teachers with accents that would scare the bejesus out of you, I have met an English teacher who had several years of experience in the bartending business. I even meet several English teachers with no degrees whatsoever.


But this is not about delusional people thinking they have real jobs, or about discussing whether cheating is right. This is not even about weight. But all of the above (delusion, cheating, and weight) play a part here.


The message we all agree on is: She should opt out.

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
Hi TX...


@Slammy. People won't cheat if the following conditions are true (at least for men):

1. Your wife keeps fit and pretty.

2. Your wife doesn't allow you to leave the house "unserviced".


I would have to disagree. I know plenty of men (unfortunately) who regularly go to girlie bars even though they're happily married. I know of men who have picked up friends of mine, despite having a hot and sexy girlfriend - also because of the opportunity, and just because that's the kind of men that they are!


So you couldn't really make a definite statement such as "men won't cheat if..."


If men are cheaters, they'll do it no matter what the circumstances!


Fortunately, I also know of family men who would consider no such thing, regardless of how pretty their wives and how much they're getting serviced at home.


Also, when you talk about the marriage contract - for many couples, it's more than just "legal". They have their vows, in which they pledge to remain faithful to each other in sickness and in health, through thick or thin, blah blah blah. So it's not fair to use the "false pretences" argument - saying that... hey you got fat, you're no longer the woman I married, therefore I have license to cheat.


Dan Savage (Savage Love agony aunt...) is very good at dealing with this topic. He says the spouse should tell the other that they're not happy with the weight and help and encourage them to do something about it. It doesn't allow them to go out and cheat, without having first tried to help their partner, and make their partner realise that the extra weight is a deal breaker.


So you see: with the OP, her husband didn't even try to broach the weight issue with his wife. If that was the only reason he fell out of love, he could have discussed it with her and help her reach a solution. But he's already given up on the relationship for various other reasons. So that's why I always say: the weight here is not the real issue.


So from your latest post, TX... I take it you never plan to get married? And what would you do if you met that special woman who refused to stay with you unless you married her? :-)

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berlinman 15 yrs ago
I have followed TX answers on a variety of topics, and I must say that he is always spot on. To my personal oppinion, he has never wrote a thing that wasn't entirely true. Painful sometimes, but always true. This is my oppinion.


The problem is that some people have problems accepting reality. TX, keep telling it like it is!

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Amparo Kia 15 yrs ago
Heels, disregard what your man told you about you being fat and unattractive, if he himself has got a belly pot, he is not fit either, just bear that in mind and don't let his word get into your self confidence. To me he is using that as a reason that he is no longer interested in the relationship/marriage.


I know it hurts, give some time for the tears, then stand up again and go forward with your life, don't even try to find out the reason why he married you in the first place, why this and why that cause you won't have the answer, just accept that ppl change and that in the process of this change, you two are not align.


About the weight issue, if you yourself feel that you are fat (by your own standard), then hit the gym, watch your diet and etc and etc.. Otherwise, stay as you are, we live our own life, not for the eyes of other ppl, do not pressure yourself doing something you don't like, I know looks matter a lot in our world, but certainly a man with "substance" would love a woman for what she is and not solely for the looks cause we are all gonna get old and ugly one day… a nice, clean and tidy outlook is all you need, inside factor is the key for a relationship to last... Look around and you'll see, a lot of plain looking couples have great relationship


I am sure you can come out of this a stronger person..


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matches 15 yrs ago
TX and Berlinman are the only posters based in Shanghai on this thread.. and they both share the same opinion! What a coincidence.


The only men who I've come across who are like TX are people like Dan Savage.. or that young guy in the free newspapers who goes to the bars and makes comments, again just like DS. I know of no hetero men who talk like this! I'm certain he is posing as a white western male, but is more than likely a gay asian male perfecting his English for when he hits the clubs and he can be a biyatch...

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sexyboop 15 yrs ago
Looking around out there heaps of real stories happening in bars, amongst friends and their friends, and even on myself being hitted on by many married men, cheating seems to have become such a socially acceptable norm that it almost made me believe it is no longer something bad but just being "normal".


Now, the more I read the posts (in other threads on this site as well) about all the "beautifully grounded" reasons why do men cheat, the more I'd rather hope my man (if there is one) will be smart enough to keep me in the dark forever.......

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GemmaW 15 yrs ago
I have not read the above posts but here's my input:-


I think it is always risky to get married after an "on and off" relationship. It means that both parties or one of you was not satisfied with the other so broke it off a couple of times.


You also mentioned that you were in a long distance relationship prior to getting married. Absence does make the heart fonder and sometimes you get blinded by it. You tend to compromise more during this period and you don't say your true feelings for fear of hurting the other knowing that you won't have time to make up when the other person leaves.


Yes, you've lived in the same city but you broke it off on and off. See my first paragraph to what I think about an on and off relationship. This is only MY opinion. Some people do have a happy marriage despite this but some are not able to. It's important to weigh up the reasons why you guys broke off the couple of times you did.


I think that if it were me and I had an on and off relationship, followed by the distance, I would have tried to stay in the same city as him(one more time) to see if we really want to be married.


I don't think you need to think about "why" he chased you. The past is past, it is no longer relevant. What's relevant is how he feels about you now and how you feel about him. Have a chat with him. Decide whether you want to move on together or separate. If he chooses the latter, I would leave. Why be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?


I feel for you but sh*t happens and we must face it. Good luck.

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newheathcareadvisor2u 15 yrs ago
matches, I am a gal and I am based in HK. I also agree with most of what the cowboys says. I have been in HK long enough to know that this guy is no asian, and most likely no gay either. No asian has that english level, and no gay would be as rude and think like that. I don't like what he says and I would never touch a guy like him, but this has nothing to do with what he says.


As a gal is hard for me to accept that men think like him, but after a while I realize that he is right on many things.


TXCowboy, keep posting.

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tinyteddy 15 yrs ago
@newhealth - agree, some men think like that, I have met hundreds. But that is their shallow reality.

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hammer1 15 yrs ago
whats the matter matches?

cant stand the thought that TXCowboy could be one of your own?

So you label him asian gay.

something in his posts must have been very close to home for you :-).

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notaeuropean 15 yrs ago
@ matches: spot on.


maybe not gay but definitely over-compensating for something. def not native English speaker but not bad either. may even be female, come to think of it.


OP this isnt complicated but it is painful.. Either heavy duty couples therapy or a break-up and divorce. I think just leave. but if you are really into him then try therapy, which can also help you deal with it and lead to the divorce. ANY good therapist is trying to help you make that decision one way or the other (divorce) -- not influence it.

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TXcowboy 15 yrs ago
This is off topic, so I will keep it short: You know you have won an argument when the other party tries to insult you instead of challenging your arguments. If I am wrong, prove yourself right so we can all learn. If I am right, feel lucky to find someone who is willing to show you reality on your face instead of leaving you on a cold night without even an explanation.


You also know you won an argument when the other party don't want to "lower herself". That may work for a loser husband or for the fat women tea party where they encourage each other saying "don't worry, he doesn't know what he is losing...I am sure that little asian girl just wants his money....you are 10 times more woman that she is, and he is a loser!", but here we are all EQUAL, and at the end of the day the best and strongest logic wins. Cara made it too easy, though...English teacher...at least you made for a hilarious conversation the other day at my office when I told my coworkers that some English teachers in Asia (again, unless you are a PhD holder in the field of education and you command a real university teacher salary - six figures in HK) actually think they are anything but glorified western clowns that entertain local kids so school principals can make a ton of money by taking advantage of their parent's love to their kids. And I write this only because I love children and I hate to see this scam.


...ups, got sidetracked. Sorry!

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
TXCowboy, I think you are being unfair now.


Both you and Cara are right in your arguments... TX, I suspect that the crowd that you hang out with will reinforce the stereotypes that you hold about men, women and relationships.


Indeed, I agree with much of your sentiment. There are lots of dodgy guys out there who are superficial, who cheat etc. But there are true gentlemen out there also. They are most likely in the minority, but it doesn't mean the minority "argument" should be ignored.


This thread went totally off the topic. You placed your argument. Cara placed her experience as a counter argument. You shouldn't attack her for that. There's a place for everyone's opinions here - it's not a competition. Please, let's be civil! :-)

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tinyteddy 15 yrs ago
Well said Slammy.


Tx, if you have won the argument when the other person starts to insult you, does that mean Cara and other english teachers have won then?

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tinyteddy 15 yrs ago
ps Cara, I wonder if you and your husband had a dog business a few years ago? in which case I met your husband and he is lovely! (does he have a brother lol) I remember you as a pretty thing too, bet your kids are stunners!

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hellokittyhk 15 yrs ago
Hi Heels,


I'm sorry to hear of your situation.

Just a point I want to make: it seems to me that your husband is trying his best to get YOU to end the relationship. By saying things to you (not attracted, overweight, mast**bate over other women, wouldn't cheat while married [but thought about it]), he appears to trying to make you miserable, so that you will take action.


For whatever reason, he is reluctant to take the step in breaking it off with you - wanting to pass the buck to you, so that you have to do the dirty work.


Can I ask - did he protest much when you moved out? I'd guess not. I'd also guess that if you attempted to break up with him, he would probably either flat out agree, or make some feeble attempt at getting you to stay, but in the end would agree it is probably for the best.


If I'm right - he is pretty spineless.


At any rate, his feelings aside, if you are unhappy, YOU need to look out for you. Don't leave your happiness in the hands of anyone else, you have to take responsibility for that.


Best wishes, take care.

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Slammy 15 yrs ago
"Tx, if you have won the argument when the other person starts to insult you, does that mean Cara and other english teachers have won then?"


Hahahaha, that's very funny and a good observation!



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hellokittyhk 15 yrs ago
Hi again Heels,


I just noticed that you asked for the name of a therapist, either on this thread or the other one.

I can't personally recommend one, however this therapist was recommended on one asia xpat thread.


http://www.healthierrelationships.com/articles.php?id=4


Take care.

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tinyteddy 15 yrs ago
"Tx, if you have won the argument when the other person starts to insult you, does that mean Cara and other english teachers have won then?"


Hahahaha, that's very funny and a good observation!"


yes and did you notice his logic has shut his mouth now


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sicn 15 yrs ago
HeelsinHK,

Sorry to hear your sad experience. However, I think you really have to focus on the root of the problem: your husband is not attractive to you any more. Try to not let other emotionally noises distract you from the truth of the matter, like whether you left your NY life, spent birthday alone, he masterbated fancying other women, attractive co-worker...Those are not really the problem.

So how to deal with the problem? Either you change yourself or he has to change. I think to change yourself to be more attractive is not really such a bad deal for a woman, right? And for the shallow man, in general, having an attractive partner is quality of his life. He likes to be able to vacation at an exotic island with a babe holding his hand walking down the beach with all the envy eyes following him...

If you really love and care about him, just be his babe.

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Jimmyhongkong 15 yrs ago
Hi Heel,


Really hurt by looking at what happened with you. I have couple of questions before i say anything on this.

How was your relationship before marriage? Did he comment anything about your body or about anything else?


I think he was interested in you and thats the reason he got married.


The first and important step you can take to start a fresh relationship is to try to understand his sexual desires. It depends how far and deep you can go to get him back.


If you think your weight is a problem, just forget about it, done concentrate to loose weight, try to concentrate to make him happy, once that is done, you are back.



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CaptDave 15 yrs ago
Matches wrote "The only men who I've come across who are like TX are people like Dan Savage.. or that young guy in the free newspapers who goes to the bars and makes comments, again just like DS. I know of no hetero men who talk like this!"


Oh how wrong you are ! Most straight men talk like this among themselves. But we have be conditioned to be more tactful in female company.


This thread is full of female experts who think they understand men, each offering a one dimensional picture of men... the truth is -

* Yes, some men cheat no matter what their wife does.

* And some men refuse to cheat not matter how bad things are at home.

* But the vast majority of men cheat because their needs are not being met.


Please, no "if he really loved me" / "men ought to" moralizing from the testosterone challenged. This is biochemical, if you doubt me, try wearing a testosterone patch for 48 hours, and see what happens to you.


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blessed 15 yrs ago
TX - you're in Shanghai I see? Yes, you've hit the nail on the head...for the Shanghai case with cheating guys and English teachers. We're a little different here in HK. All braun and no brains doesn't get you the world HK. We have a little more substance and expectations are slightly higher.



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