Perceptions

After reading many, many threads posted here on the topic of cheating I continue to be amazed by the unshakable perceptions and opinions that some people hold.


It occurs to me that whenever a woman posts regarding a cheating partner there are those who automatically defend the cheater and condem the woman. It simply must be her fault....she let herself go, she must be boring, she isn't meeting her partners needs, doesn't contribute enough financially ect, ect, ect. And lord help her if she even dares bring up the financial ramifications of leaving the cheating partner. She is then vilified as a money grubbing golddigger.


However, when a man complains of a cheating partner these same individuals do not appear to apply the same set of standards to the cheating woman. Again it is solely the woman who is at fault. She was a bored housewife with nothing better to do or some variation of this theme.


The opinions of these posters seem to imply that believe if one is the major financial contributor in a relationship then one is absolved of all responisbility for the relationship. Either that or they think that simply being born a male makes cheating okay. In one case though I think that by always taking the males partners side she is justifing her affairs with married men.


I have been on both sides of the cheating issue. All the criteria that these folks seem to believe justify cheating applied. I was the major breadwinner, worked long hours at a stressful job to support my family, my husband did not meet my emotional needs and in fact was unaware that I even had any. Good grief after 17 years of marriage the man did not even know basic information about me such as the color of my eyes or what I took in my morning coffee. Did that make my cheating understandable, maybe. Was it an act of desperation, absolutely. But did that make it a good moral choice, not for a heartbeat. It was wrong, pure and simple.


Well, those are my thoughts on this issue. Care to share yours?

Pardon me. It should read "seem to imply the belief that"

I will share mine.

We are all entitled to make mistakes. And we can all be given the chance to be forgiven.


My only real beef is with the serial adulterers, or those who really don't give a sh1t about their partner.


Then it is probably best to call it a day.


Petty revenge and acts of spitefulness by either party only demeans the person being spiteful.


My two cents worth.

Yes we are entitled to make mistakes, but hopefully we learn from them and absolve not to commit the same ones.


As for the cheater and the cheated, I believe that, on a soul-level they need to experience those roles for them to grow. It will be painful, it will be difficult and it can get ugly. But in the end, the optimist in me believes that everything will work out for the best as long as the lessons are learned and remembered.


My two cents worth.

Isi and mpl, you make excellent points in your replies to my posts. I totally agree that most people who post here do offer balanced and thoughtful advice. My thoughts were offered with the others in mind who seem to be most vocal vehement in thier opinions and yet are oddly silent now.


The subject of why cheating occurs is a complex issue. The reasons are as varied as the individuals themselves. It is not my intention to issue a blanket condemnation of everyone who has ever strayed. But my bottom line is this, that while the cheating might be understandable it still does not make it okay.

B&P, like mpl, I used to take the moral high ground and condemned anyone who cheated. My husband is a wonderful man and I loved him with all my heart (and I still do). However, 15 years into our marriage, and for reasons I'm still not quite sure of, we became more like friends who shared a house than a couple - and no I didn't let myself go and we both have good jobs. I didn't even know I had this void in my heart until I met and fell in love with another man. To cut a long story short, I hurt my husband deeply and I would rather have my arm cut off than to see him hurt like that again... and the other man that I fell in love with, well, I later found out he never really loved me at all - so yes, I got my heart broken and got what I deserved:)


Through the experience I've grown up a lot, and I obviously will do things differently if faced with the same situation. The thing is, though, I don't think I would have been able to get here if I have not had this experience... I have learned a great deal about myself and about human nature; and I have become a more tolerant, open-minded and understanding person as a result. In this sense, I don't really regret going through the learning process... does that make sense?


My opinion on cheating now is 1)I have forfeited my right to judge and condemn others and 2)everyone needs to learn their own lessons in life


Cheers

Jacaranda: just brilliant!

and so is mpl!

regis, please reread my original post. One of us is confused and it is possible it's me. I have never held the opinion that being the major financial contributer gives a person the right to cheat or does it absolve the person of thier share of the responsibility for the relationship. I said that I believe that this is a view held by others who post here. This post was meant to explore that point of view.


No, I don't need anyone to tell me I was wrong. I am fully aware it.


btw - yes, green. but it's milk no sugar ;)

Jacarands, I could not agree with you more fully. It is the sum of our experiences that make us who we are right now. The painful ones maybe more than the joyful ones shape our views and actions. You are spot on with that.

Thanks everyone for your comments, especially mpl. Things are still a mess now but I have to find the way through it myself.


regis - do you mean to ask what's the worst reason for cheating? Well is there a "best" reason for cheating? In either case, does that make a difference? For example, the man I had an affair with knew I was married and I'm pretty sure he also knew he didn't love me; but does that make him worse than me? I don't think so. I think he had his reasons and probably was going through some issues. I forgive him for what he did.


As I said, I don't judge others these days and I believe we can't change what others do; we all need to learn our own lessons and we can only change our own behaviours.

As a recent found out cheater who is still trying to recover his marriage I can say something of the reason for cheating. My wife seems to feel that I must have set out to cheat on her because I was unhappy about some aspect of our relationship but I can honestly say that prior to the fateful night we had never been closer and that I absolutely adore her. So why is the question, and I have to admit to being a little flattered by the attention of the woman concerned,a view clouded somewhat by too many drinks, I can also say that I am sure that I felt that no one would know and no harm would be done so what the hell. Cearly if you think through the horrific consequences of your actions(seeing my devestated wife so upset and pushing me away when all I want to do is cuddle/comfort her) you would act differently. I have come to the conclusion that for me there was no malice aforethought as it were, no thinking befere acting and no intention to betray trust. This was opportunistic lust at it's worst, ill concieved and ill judged but nothing to do with any faiings of our relationship just a weakness in me in allowing myself to get into a state where normal reasoning is impaired. I know some say cheating is cheating but I think there is a world of difference in someone male or female deliberatly setting off on an affair, realising what they are doing after say one night stand and then continuing with the affair fully conscious of the fact that they are decieving their partner and what happened in my case and I am sure what has happened to many others. The end result may be the same, at best a seriously damaged relationship with massive lost of trust and a long recovery period and at worst an irretrievable breakdown with huge unpleastnesses and distress for all concerned. Bottom line the reasons are many and varied but if we all had a built in forward viewer of the future I am sure most people would value their realtionships more.


The most difficult question to answer to my wife is why and if I try to strip away any excuse then I would have to say because I didn't think about what I was doing pure and simple.

Wow, what good thread this has been. It is not going in the direction that I had anticipated but has evolved into a thoughtful dicussion on the complexities of infidelity.


mpl, While I generally think that cheating is a sign of problems within the relationship or within the individual themselves, I do believe that in Freddy's case it may simply be a case of exptreme studidity or a brain explosion as you put it. He does sound as though he has done a good deal of self-evaluation and soul searching. Even so, you are spot on in your recommendation that he and his wife go together for counseling. A third party may be helpful in overcoming this and in rebuilding faith in the relationship.


Just for the record I am going to offer additional information regarding my experiences with being on both sides of this issue.


In my first marriage I was the one who was unfaithful. It was a sign of serious and long term problems within the relationship. And was more than a one night stand. It was me who decided to end the relationship. By the time of my affair the relationship had deteriorated to the point where I at least no longer had the energy or will to rebuild it. In hind sight, I can see that what I should have done was to address the issues when they first occured and not taken the cowards way of just pretending that they did not exist or that they were not as important as they actually where. I just let the issues continue to erode my feelings for my spouse and my commitment to my relationship with him well past the point of no return.


In my second marriage, it was my husband who was unfaithful. And it was once again a case of a long term affair. One that lasted at least a year but for the majority of this time I was blissfully unaware of it. There then came a day that an indicident occurred that was so blatant that I was literally hit over the head with the realization that my husband, the love of my life was cheating on me and that it had been going on for quite sometime. The pain of his betrayal was immense. I could not eat or sleep. Looking back I should have seen it sooner, quite frankly my husband is simply not that good a liar. I just could not fathom the idea that he would ever cheat. My faith in him was absolute.


There then came a period of some months when I gathered proof through means that I am certainly not prood of. During which time, I confronted him with each piece and he denied. And I tried to believe him.It was not until I got to the point where I the strength to confront him full out and say to him "This is what I know to be true and this is how I know it" that we reached a turning point. I also stated very clearly what my actions would be should he still conintue this affair or should a subsequent one occur. Bottom line, I stayed in the marriage and for the past year and a half things have been very good between us.


I would not have stayed in the marriage if I did not very clearly understand the reasons that lead to the infidelity. It actually had more to do with his unhappiness with his job and himself compounded by extensive travel that required lengthly separations, than with any real unhappiness in our relationship. It has been a long and difficult process to get to where we are now and one I most definately do not ever want to repeat.


Because of my past experiences, I believe that I have a balanced view of this subject and try very hard not to pass judgement on others. But also because of these experiences I hold firm in my view that cheating is never a good answer to the problem even when at the time it may seem to be the only answer.

A.me, As usual, mpl has put it beautifuly.


Don't compare yourself, your decisions, or your relationship against what others in similar situations have done. Each case IS unique with a unique set of dynamics. Perhaps, if I were in a differnt place in my life I would have made a totally different decision than the one I made to stay with my spouse.


No matter what decision you make in these types of situations, it is always an agonizing one. It is only human nature to second quess yourself especially when you are still living with the pain of your decision as I suspect you are and as I did for a long time. You wonder why you could not find it in yourself to stay and I wondered why I could not find it in myself to leave.


The important thing is that you be able to be at peace with your decision. For me this was a long time in coming. It has only been recently that I no longer think about my husbands betrayal on a regular basis. Still, every now and then, something will happen to spark the memories and if only for an instant, the pain is new all over again. It will probably be a while yet before I and our relationship are whole again.


Will our relationship ever be the same as it was? Probably not. But can it be a fullfilling one for both of us? That I do believe.


Sweetie, only you can make the right choice for you. Hard as it is right now to live with your choice it will get easier.


On the issue of your son. You have stated that your ex is a great dad and a wonderful human being. It is obvious that despite the hurt you feel you do still recognize those qualities that that you fell in love with in the first place. This holds great promise that you and your ex will be able to continue to be great parents together. Your son will always bind you together. Treat each other with respect and treat each other kindly always and your son will not suffer.


After my first husband and I split up our daughter and and I were talking one night. She said to me "you know mom, I know that you and Dad are divorced but sometimes I really have to think about it to remember". That was the greatest affirmation that I could possibly have received that her Dad and I had handled it in the best possibe way.


If after a relationship, especially one where you had children together,you end up hating each other and being bitter, then you really did waste that part of your life.


To this day, if my ex ever needed me, I would be there for him. Even though I can not be married to him, I still do love him. And I know that my husband feels the same way about his ex who is the mother of his two children.

Very moving thread.

A.me, I am very glad to hear that you are not only at peace with your decision but are happy with it.


The capacity to forgive is within the individual. There are many things that could happen to me that I could not forgive. Forgiving and torally forgetting are two different things. I understand and forgive my husband but cannot forget. I would need a total memory wipe for that.


My personal opinion is that marriage at it's ultimare best is all about compromise. For me, there can be love and passion in compromise.


The definitions of fullfilling is certainly different for differnt people.


A scar is a sign of healing, even a deep one. To use a cliche (and I do hate using them) That which does not kill us makes us stronger". In my case, and I can only state my case, this situation has made me, and perhaps only by default, my relationship with my husband stronger.


Your relationship, your choices. My relationship, my choices. I respect yours and ask only that you respect mine. In this thread I have shared much more of my life than I am generally comfortable with.

My marriage lasted for 17 years. It was passionate, uplifting and difficult for the first few year. 10 years ago, he had an affair, which on and off carried on for a few years. What hurt me most is not his unfaithfullness, but his absense of the life of me and his son; his cowardice of declaring his love, his loyalty to one love. It has been an empty relationship for 10 years, I just swithed off emotionally and lived as a single mum until one day, I apologized to him that I could no longer love him and would like to separate. When I asked him would he propose first he was very honest telling me not, simply he hadn't had better option than, and he didn't want take any blames and responsibilities. So after my divorce, he has no legal obligation of supporting our son, he sold our property overseas without telling me. For 2 years, he has not been working, and living in my place till last month. I don't feel anything emotionally, except sorry for him, thinking his losing job, family, self-esteem. He has been a wonderful father and he's still around our house every day. I said to my son that he's a great dad, but just not enough for mum in our life which should have more fun and happiness. Beware what you want in life and don't get disillusioned no matter what happends

Reading this thread has indeed been enlightening and hearing your stories has brought back the sick feeling I had in my stomach after my ex cheated. The only good things I can say after the fact is that I lost 12 pounds in one week and I was forced to decide exactly what I wanted in life (just like Mao said).


When I see most threads on cheating, they seem to be before the affair, during an ongoing affair, or after one has ended. The questions are very different but the answers seem relatively consistent.


Before the fact: Should I or shouldn't I?

Answer: Don't. Nothing good will come out of it.


During: What are you THINKING??? Those threads can get a tad judgemental. Then again, who would say, "Good on 'ya, dude/dudette. We all deserve two partners."


After: Now what? I think this one is the most deep. Forgiveness is essential. To me, forgiveness does not mean that you pretend it never happened and return to life as usual with a thicker set of blinders. For me, forgiveness is making the decision that you will not get revenge or bring it up in order to hurt the other.


The Pollyanna in me needs to believe that there are great relationships that never fall victim to affairs. Perhaps some can work through an affiar and live by saying to themselves, "Well, I guess this is as good as it gets." I've heard some say that their relationship actually became better after an affair. I have a hard time believing that, but it seems that can be the case. My feeling is that if two people can go through the excruciating process of putting pieces back together and come out happier than before, they are two of the most courageous people I have ever met.