Posted by
Kermie
13 yrs ago
I've been with my fiance for three years. Beginning things were great but he lost his job & confidence for over a year. I've tried every way to get him to work. He only attempts part-time jobs (flexible hours, no bad boss), turn down interviews and now he wants to leave HK and move back to his mom's rent-free basement as "temporary" but I think it'll be permanent. He's attentive, caring and honest. I worry that I won't find anyone better in HK. Both of us in mid-30s. I'm happy to contribute 30% of household expenses but I respect the man to be the bread winner. Am I materialistic or suffer princess-syndrome?
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His behavior is not normal. He needs help. You are right to worry about him. You sound like a normal woman, not a princess. A princess would not expect to contribute anything, and would not have stuck around so long.
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How about going 50%-50% with him? Can that help? Well, it looks that he is going through a personal meltdown. I see it happening time after time when men lose their jobs, or when they work for bosses that dictate to them what to do. Sometimes it takes several years until a person emerges out of a meltdown. Some people are never able to work full time again. It's up to you to decide if you want to support him during this time, or let him go and look for someone else.
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Set him free, sounds to me he needs a break, from the current situation, culture, relationship or whatever he possibly doesn't want to face, and being in a state of jobless for a long time could droop one's spirit badly. Whatever, real or excuses, he says, respect and accept by no means (not even you are willing to pay 100%) you can make him stay if he wants to leave. He will come back to you if you're meant for each other. And if even if he doesn't, believe that there are many good guys out there waiting for you :)
BTW, no need to make a title like that unless you really think of yourself a princess.
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"I'm afraid I won't find anything better"??? Really?
Is this about you being worried about him getting his life back on track...or you being past your sell-by date and fearing this is the end of the road, to either marry a jobless guy or no one at all?
That says a lot for the self-confidence riding on both of you, really. If you feel that way, no doubt he must feel worse.
Let him go home to his folks, give him the space, and if after that space he still doesn't get hissh*t together, then maybe it simply was meant to part at the basement door.
If you are only willing to go as far as 30% of the household bills and you expect a man to "be a man" then obviously your expectations are far from being met right now...right?
Good luck getting where you want to go. As I say to most people I know, s*** or get off the pot. There is nothing worse than choosing the easy way out and doing nothing at all.
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Agree with Sid_1. What's with the "I'm willing to pay 30% of the household expenses"? What is this, the 1950's? A woman should be taken care of financially regardless of circumstances?
If you love him and want to be with him, take some responsibility and carry the expenses for a while. I'm pretty sure he would take care of you if the situation were reversed.
That being said, if you only respect a man if he takes care of you financially, I would say that it really would be better for the both of you to part ways since you most likely lost all respect for him already.
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That said, its pretty hard to go from joblessness to working full on. Tell him you understand but that arsing about doing part time/flexitime work isn't going to make getting back into fulltime work any easier.
Good luck.
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"I'm happy to contribute 30% of household expenses"
This is a pretty clear RED FLAG.
No wonder he wants out. If your idea of an equal partnership is "30%" when he is jobless and has very low income, then I think he would be crazy to stick around. It will be much better for him to see the writing on the wall, and move on. And he may thank his lucky stars that he learned the reality of his partners expectations when he could still get out easily.
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"Why are women so lazy all the time???"
It has to do with the (awful) way most are raised. They are encouraged to think of themselves as princesses, to be spoiled and "valued" ("because I'm worth it"), not as equal partners expected to make equal contributions to a relationship.
Nowadays, many women genuinely want equality. And some even realise they will not get it by carrying a "princess mentality." If you encounter a women like that - with that I-expect-to-be-spoiled mentality - I recommend to run not walk to the next potential partner. There are plenty of fish in the sea, as they say, and if the women who think they are princesses all become old maids (as many will), they frankly they deserve their fate.
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Kermie, the man is thinking of leaving HK and go back to where he came from, for him to consider that option, obviously he is not happy here, and he thinks there is no reason for him to continue staying here. You need to seriously think about this relationship, the real problem is not his being jobless (I understand it is a problem); the problem is the relationship isn’t strong enough to stand a bit of downfall, and his and your expectation is obviously not in sync. When you say you are willing to contribute 30% to the household expenses, you are thinking “this is so far that I can go, and that you are already cutting him some slack”.. .. deep inside you, I am guessing, you would expect your man to be the breadwinner of the household, and you respect the man who can meet your expectation. There is nothing wrong with having expectation; every one of us is free to have our own choice and expectation. But it would be wrong if you will just settle with this man simply because you fear you wouldn’t find anyone better in HK. Because you wouldn’t be happy until your expectation is met…
Personally regardless of how many percentages each contributes to the household expenses. I like my man to have a decent job because a job is not only the source of stable income but it also gives a person self confidence and a feeling of self worth and satisfaction. Having said that, I see it reasonable for the other partner to shoulder the expenses while one partner is out of job (for a reasonable reason), however, if the partner is simply lazy and laid back, I see there is no reason to put up with such attitudes, really what woman/man would want to spend the rest of her/his life with a lazybag.
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selda
13 yrs ago
if you live together, i think it's only fair for you to pay 50% of the rent and bills.
And if your partner is unemployed, you should be contributing more financially, while he has time to contribute more in terms of housework, cooking, grocery shopping.
I lived with unemployed men in the past, and look back at those times with a considerable dose of nostalgia because they had more time for me and themselves. They could read more, were more relaxed, we could go for impromptu walks together, and spend hours in bed :-) But again, i never cared for money, as long as we had enough to eat and a roof over the head, i was happy. I'd rather live with a guy who has plenty of time than someone who works long hours and is stressed out because of his job.
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naim
13 yrs ago
Selda - It's nice to hear someone with a positive experience.
I agree with Amparo, a job is important for self confidence.
I worked and financed the household for over a decade only to have my husband shortly after finding a job, cheat on me and leave the family. I am only guessing but i think proving his desirability and masculinity had something to do with it.
Tinkering - "I'm pretty sure he would take care of you if the situation were reversed."
My own experience has taught me a harsh lesson about expectations. If you do it, do it because you love him, but don't expect anything in return.
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naim
13 yrs ago
It's not a matter of right or wrong.
Society is only slowly accepting stay at home dads. Sometimes, even if the woman is supportive and accepts the situation fully, the man has difficulty coming to terms with it. It really depends on the man's perceptions. In these cases, the man's sense of self worth is going to be pummeled, affecting communication, the atmosphere at home, etc.
If the relationship is important to them both and she sees her future with him, then she should really try and help him up. It's going to be tough and maybe in for a long haul but I believe it's the tough times that strengthen us as individuals and as a couple.
In Kermie's case, it seems like the partner has lost his confidence. I don't think even if she contributes 100% financially this will solve the issue.
The issue here is to get his confidence back up so he doesn't turn down interviews and for him to make a real attempt at full time work.
Sid_1 - Kermie never said he was lazy, rather you said "Why are women so lazy all the time???"
Cut her some slack. Any relationship where one person becomes suddenly unemployed is going to be under a bit of strain.
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"maybe he isn't ready for the chains of commitment to job, wife, home, esp with someone who is stating in such stark unyielding terms her standards"
This comment cuts right to the heart of the matter. Kermie needs to think about what matters more: Her "standards". or the actual relationship she is in.
Personally, I think that unrealistic expectations (especially of a financial kind) are the ruin of many relationships. Maybe today's parents will do a better job of raising young women in a more realistic way, to fit today's challenging world. It might contribute greatly to future happiness.
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he needs to get a job. he's 30 and his most attractive option is to move into his mother's basement. really? course if someone let me live rent free i might move there too!
also i like the way the OP uses respect and expect interchangeably or unconsciously. really funny. how do you continue to have sex with him? or has that ended already. sex is important.
it's very obvious he doesn't meet your needs or expectation and he probably feels it. Like others have said it's time to part ways before marriage, joint investments, kids, etc.
it sounds like you want a money guy so it's best you get one. he may be best on the market in caring, etc however you respect a guy who can pay so go for someone uglier than you with money.
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If you want to give first, and maybe receive back - you may find you will more easily have your expectations met - ie that formula fits most situations. And if you are with the right person, they will appreciate what you do, and want to reciprocate. Ideally, they are operating with the same less-selfish formula.
But if you want to withhold and restrict your giving, until you receive what you expect to get - this formula is bound to lead to disappointment. For example, if you think contributing 30% of expenses, and he is struggling to cover even 50%, you are both headed towards disappointment.
I cannot say "your expectations are wrong", since you will have to decide what is right for you. But it should be obvious that you need to find a guy who will be thrilled to see you contribute even 30%. That does not describe most of the decent guys I know. But it does describe many selfish bastards, who make plenty of money, and want a "trophy girl" that they can easily control.
If that's you - a trophy girl - then keep your looks and your weight down, and you may catch someone. And maybe someday gain a spectatular divorce settlement when he turns away from you towards someone younger and more attractive. No doubt, this type of role playing: selfish bastard and gold-digger - fits the sort of world that advertisers and makers of TV shows like "Sex and the City" like to include in their programs. Such values create big dramas, and sell lots of products. But if you want to be happy, you need to move beyond that warped view of the world towards something more balanced and karmically healthy.
I have warned my male friends for years to get beyond the Playboy view of the world, and seek partners of substance. Looks fade, and so does sexual attraction. But someone with a "good heart" at 25-30 will probably still have a good heart at 50-60 and beyond. That wisdom is not contained in our popular culture, but it does make great sense when you think about it.
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I'm not in favor of "gender neutral parenting", but I am in favor if raising girls to behave responsibly as adults, when they are grown up, not like spoiled children for sale to the highest bidder.
I know that was common once upon a time, and can recall how appalled I was when I was at supper with a couple with three children, and one of them announced: "I want to have a horse of my own one day."
Her father responded: "You are going to have to find a rich husband."
With suggestions like that, no wonder many girls wind up as gold-diggers.
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Yes, you are materialistic. Your 30% comment from a westerner perspective would be funny if you were not so serious.
Sounds like you are not in love with each and that you only want to get married out of family/society pressure (not love), resulting in the marriage being more of a business merger than a vow of love and carrying
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I think that the person who earns the most should contribute the most to the upkeep of the house. Eg, if you earn 75% of the combined household income then 75% of the combined household costs should come out of your wage. 50/50 isn't fair if you earn HK$50,000 pm and your partner earns HK$5,000, is it?
My husband earns less than I do, so I pay the larger costs like the mortgage and holidays. If we go out to dinner I pay.
It does make you sound like a princess that you wouldn't automatically help him out with paying joint costs. If he's not Chinese, he won't care about things like losing face, he'll just want the bills paid.
My friend had a husband who wouldn't get a job in Hong Kong. He got a job in a finance thing, then quit, he was a chef for a time, but quit that, then he got a job as a teacher. Your chap needs to get a job, have you suggested teaching to him? It worked for my friends husband, although they ended up moving back to Canada in the end regardless, and now he's a policeman.
I tried recruitment agencies in hong kong when I first moved here. They found me a job very quickly.
The thing is, compared to working in the UK, working in Hong Kong isn't that great. The politics and the talking behind your back isn't fun. The long hours are exhausting and working at the weekend is just ridiculous, bad time management if you ask me, but that's the way it is here. If he can't hack it he will have to go back to his own country.
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