i dont want to end up homeless and without a cent! HELP!

I am currently living with my bf. We are doing fine but hope to make plans for the future together as we would like to get married and have kids sometime in the near future. We hope to buy a bigger flat so that we can plan for a family in the future years to come. However, as we are short on money, we are planning to ask for help from his parents who have agreed to lend us the deposit and we will pay the monthly mortgage payments. However, the new flat will be owned by my bf and his parents which I think is fair as they are the ones who are giving the deposit. However, I will be contributing to the monthly mortgage payments (more than half of my salary) and I am worried that if anything happens in the future ( which is unforeseeable- ie we break up) then i end up with nothing as the deed on the flat wouldnt have my name even though I have been contributing towards the mortgage. I just feel like I want to protect myself from this risk as I would not be able to have any savings (as i will be contributing more than half of my salary towards the mortgage payments) - any advice on what I can do to protect myself? Is there a law in HK that says I will be entitled to my fair share of the flat if I have contributed to the mortgage payments? I just dont want to be dumb and be at risk of ending up with nothing if worst comes to worst!

candy, i fully agree with the quotes above. unless married, you will get nothing of this apartment if your name is not on the deed.

if i were them in case of break up, i would simply call you a tenant who paid a flat share rental.


i suggest you put it to him in this way:


- assuming the purchase price is 1m and the deposit is 10%; hence follows

- his parents paid 10% so they get 10% ownership

- your and your bf pay for the remaining 90% through a mortgage, hence you two own 90% of the property.

- your 90% ownership can be either jointly or separately.

- if separately i suggest a split based on how much you pay for the mortgage, e.g. if you bf pays 70% of the monthly mortgage fee and you pay 30%, then your bf would own 63% (90%*70%) and you own 27% (90%*70%).


so the final ownership would be 10% for his parents, 63% for him and 27% for you.


i just re-read your post and it says your parents are LENDING the deposit. when we lend money in my family, we put up a very small contract which lists the amount, tenor and the interests payments - even if tenor is unlimited and interest is zero. this would also help to clarify to whom the money is lent to, i.e. to you two jointly or to him alone.

if jointly, you would be LIABLE to pay back the money if he doesn't pay back. so you could end up in a situation where you have to pay back the loan but don't own the apartment.


if it's a real loan, i don't see why they should own anything because it's a loan not a equity stake.


here's another question you should think about: who is going to sign the mortgage agreement with the bank? is it him alone or joint? if joint, you are LIABLE for the full amount in case he doesn't pay up and you might again end up in a situation where you pay but don't own the place.


it's a decision tree you need to go through:

1. is it a loan (which you should formalize) or a equity stake that his parents are making?

-> if loan, they should own nothing; if equity stake, they should own according to the loan size/purchase price ratio

2. who signs the mortgage agreement, i.e. equity stake for purchase price - parent loan?

-> if only him, then why you should contribute more than a tenancy rental? if joint, you should own the property jointly


last but not least, if you stick to his parents and him owning the property alone, you could design a contract where your monthly payments are split into a tenancy part and a loan part, i.e. you pay him 'rent' of 5k and also make him a loan of 5k every month for him to pay the mortgage. in that way, if you break up, he will owe you the 5k loan part.

of course you should include a nice penalty and interest rate in case he doesnt pay up and you need to go to court to force him to pay :)


sorry long post but i think the fundamental misconception is that his parents should get ownership when they are only giving a loan. think about a bank that makes a loan to a company and then also gets ownership of the company for free: NO WAY! :)

thx guys for all of your replies. I now have a better idea as to what I need to do and think about, though I am dreading the talk with bf. sigh. I think we have trouble (my bf and i) getting a motgage, so his parents will be getting the mortgage out for us and we pay our monthly contributions directly to his parents. I guess this makes it much worse off for me and complicates things further. There is no way to prove I contribute to the mortgage payments and so I could just end up with nothing at the end of the day!

I agreed with cookie, if it is me, since I am prepare to shoulder the mortgage payment and this flat is going to be my matrimonial home, my name should be on the deed and not his parents, I will be willing to make a contract between us (me and the BF) and whoever lend me the money, to attest that we barrow money from them and we will repay them, unless his parents' is giving out the money and is not expecting repayment from you. in that case, split according to percentage of contribution but definitely your name should be on the deed.


You need to protect yourself.. there is no question about that, afterall it is your hard earn money

candy, if his parents get the mortgage, make a separate contract where you pay 'rent' and a 'loan'. easiest way to go.


alternatively, why not get married, i.e. get the license now. formal wedding can always be later. then you have legal security AND you know whether he is really committed :)

Candy,


Maybe you should ask yourself whether it is better to continue renting for a while, save some extra money, and decide whether or not to get married without this purchase hanging over your heads.


It is possible that you will jeopardise the mutual trust that you share, just for the sake of buying property. Is it worth the rist?


First things first. Work out the relationship and where it is going, without complicating things unnecessarily.

I am already living with my bf right now in his flat which he owns so i guess moving out and renting is out of the question.

I am wondering what is the practice in HK regarding to married couples and the distribution of assets upon separation or divorce? Is it the same as the UK?

Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela - i do agree with you. I will be essentially like a tame tenant -working for them. sigh...

And no- i am def not into marrying for the flat/money. I was just wondering if marriage would make things easier as it sounds like its going to be a big mess otherwise. I dont think setting up a company option is practical as it does sound way too complicated.


So to be fair, from their (bf's parents)point of view, would they be happy having my name on the deed when they are paying the lump sum deposit and i am just contributing to mortgage payments? im sure they would be worried that if the relationship goes sour- i could easily run off with a share of the flat that they paid a deposit for. im sure most parents wont agree to allowing this right?

So it's easy. Why not stay put where you are now (you are living in a flat which he owns and you are not paying the rent), then both of you save up until you can afford a deposit on a house.


I REALLY would not buy a flat if I have to have my inlaws' names on it also. You can borrow money off them and pay them back in installments. If they don't agree to this, I'd rather not buy. I think nowadays you can put in 5% deposit and the bank will lend you 95%, right?

candy,


why would the parents not allow you to put your name on it??? for us both parents chipped in money and none of them even asked to be put on the deed. in fact they were happy that we handle the deed/mortgage on our own.


and it's not that you can just run away with a share of the flat. if you stop paying (or your bf stops playing) the bank can take recourse on you to pay up. if you don't, the bank will take possession of the flat. so you would own nothing...


if they pay the deposit then they should be entitled to own a share of the flat as big as the deposit. your mortgage pays for the rest, so you should own a share of the flat as big as that rest

Candylee,

First thing first, please do not let this future money-saving finacial plan hurt your current relationship and your future plan of having a family. It is pointless to even consider buying property together if it ruins you two's fututre together.


It is not a good idea to tangle long-term financial commitment without a marriage. If you do decide to purchase that flat, you may have a few alternatives:

1. Ask your parents to loan you the deposit and put the flat in their names.

2.Borrow the deposit money either from your parents or his parents separately and buy the flat in both you and your boyfriend’s name.

3. Agree with the current proposal but only commit to pay the amount of mortgage equal to or less than the current rent you are paying.


If you boy friend and his family really care about you, they will be considerate for your concerns on this matter.

hey, why i get the impression that you don`t feel too safe and secure about this relationship, of course i could be wrong. But, you guys are not even married yet you already think about what if... Are you abosolutely sure about your boyfriend is the one? Are you sure about buying a property together and marrying him?

thanks guys. I really appreciate your comments. Yes i am quite sure about my bf. But i suppose i am alittle unsure about the timeframe. ie things happening so quickly, but on the otherhand, i feel like we have to move ahead quicker ie get married and start a family sooner bcos i have recently found out that I have PCOS- so for the sake of fertility, i really would like to start sooner than later. My bf has agreed to this after discussion. So buying the flat is the first step so we have a proper home fit to bring up a baby before getting married and starting on kids.

Personally, i would say im not quite ready for this huge commitment, but as I said, i wantto maximise my fertility chances as much as possible.

Candy,


Being relaxed and settled in your life, and your relationship, will help your fertility.


There are things that we can control, and things that we cannot. Maybe you should just forget about trying to control the property issue, and go with the flow. After all, you should be assuming that your relationship will work out well. If it doesn't, the property and its ownership will be the least of your problems.

hey candy,


glad to hear you are sure about your bf :P. well, if that`s the case, and you both want to have kids, then why not just do it? you don`t need to be completely ready for a baby, in a way, people are never ready, they can learn how to be parents and create better material things for kids along the way. You and your boyfriend already have a roof over your head, you guys both have jobs, to me, that`s more enough. I think a lot of parents when they had babies, they don`t have big houses or 3 cars, not all of them can afford to buy fancy things. And for you, the changing house, paying back for his parents, all this hassle won`t do you any good to be a mother to be. i guess you need to be relaxed and emotionally ready to have baby..

Candy,


This would not be a good start to your marriage. I don't care what comfort might be offered (the "We will never see you out on the street", "We will always look after you" stuff), you need to be legally secure from the outset. If your bf's parents want to lend the deposit, all well and good. They can secure this by way of a second mortgage on the property. If they want to pay your bf's share of the mortgage, that's fine. That can be a loan to him. But, for your own security and that of any children you might have, you need your name on the deeds and benefit from any increase in the price of the property. A local lawyer will advise how best to do this. It could be as "Joint Tenants in Equity" whereby, when one of you dies, the property automatically vests in the survivor. Or it could be as "Tenants in Common" where you each have a defined share. When one dies, their share is an asset of the estate. If your bf's parental support is conditional on their owning the property, respectfully decline their kind offer. True, if you accept, you might subsequently seek to argue for a share in the property owing to your contribution to the mortgage, but this is a tricky area of property, equity and trust law - and one in which you are in no way sure to succeed. And who wants to face that argument anyway? Why should you enter marriage with an immediate and continuing sense of insecurity? No, far better to do what so many other couples do- just do it on your own. Save up for the deposit. Consider having any property you buy together in both your names as Joint Tenants in Equity. Then, if things go wrong (as nearly 50% of marriages do, so assume the worst), you at least have some interest in the property. Then of course, you have your legal rights under matrimonial law. But that's for discussion another time.

Candy, Nothing is ever set in stone and promises, even by a good decent man, family are made to be broken - even when there was no ill intent on anyone's part. So err on the side of safety always.


He is just a bf, not yet a husband. be safe and do not enter into buying any property with him unless u r married. when married, there is a law in some countries that anything bought after marriage is the property of both parties. But as bf-gf, whoever's name appears in the paper and documents, gets legal ownership.


the reason u asked this Q is bec u have a feeling if something go south in the relationship, what happens? now that is a good instinct. Go by ur instinct and never look back. u CAN donate a part of ur salary to that house ONLY when U R MARRIED TO HIM. But until that happens, NO and DO NOT!


I have a friend who shared her hard earned money with a bf to buy a house. She paid almost 3/4 of the total. They married there after, but divorced after 2 years. Tell me who owns the house now? The ex-husband. and she was even the one forced to move out bec the ex-husband beat her up so badly soemtimes, she cannot go on anymore.


in life, we cannot see any part of our future. we just live it day by day and always clinging to hope, faith and what could be. Its a gamble. But if u know that u dont know how well to play the game.. be safe and do not gamble.

If I was asked to draw up a shopping list in what I was looking for in a woman, I would find that none of the women I have loved would fit the profile of my kind of woman.


As Hoyo says, enjoy the relationship you are in.

If I was composing a shoping list of what I wanted in a woman, I hope a friend would hit me on the back of the head and remind me that there are better things to be doing regarding woman then making up shoping lists.

thanks guys- really appreciate your replies.