Your Objective Opinions Please... Marriage Problems

sounds 100% like my current wife and her former husband. same age difference, same start to relationship. they divorced in the end because she had bigger dreams than him.


my first and most important advice: don't have kids until this issue is sorted out!


second advice: get yourself clear on what you are missing and whether you can satisfy this missing piece in another way. you must satisfy what you miss else it will either hurt you badly if you stay or make your divorce later when it's much more painful (e.g. with kids).


last point speculating a bit: are you from the mainland and your husband was reasonably successful when you met him first? you had big dreams and he was already there? maybe you were just looking for a role model/daddy figure and not really for a equal partner? just speculating but that was my wife's story.

You said: "I'm married, working alone in HK. " Does this mean you are living apart? Are one of you in your own country?


You should have sufficient educational background (from university) to be able to sit down and list each others points and then narrow and clarify the differences at which time comes the hard part - the give and take.


If you like change in your life, children will sure be like a lead weight and the last thing you need if your differences are so great you won't finish the task of child rearing together.


Don't take offence but is this difference being highlighted at this time for an ulterior motive? Since he has been through divorce he already knows the pain and suffering and freedom. This might make the choice easier for him and than you.


You are partners in this marriage and just as you respect his wishes he, too, must respect yours. It is unfortunate that in the blissful state of love that your goals weren't hammered out more clearly so you each shared the others goals.


Women are often the losers in divorce, and I am not saying this is a given eventuality, but it means that this matter needs determining before any significant lifestyle changes such as children are entered into. And since you are a young woman it is only proper these differences are settled ASAP.


Whilst you might be able to figure the list of differences you might want a third party to help you discuss them.

i think selfish is a strong word. the key is figuring out whether something is a deal breaker or not.

i agree not to cut and run but if something makes you unhappy for the rest of the life, then run

Clandestine, "iwilltry" said it all so right. I am the same person, always not knowing what i want.. and trust me.. one day you will end up with no one and nothing. i am not exxagerating.. but yes.. the prob is u dont know what u want and u jump into something with out really thinking.

she doesnt love the guy anymore....just move on....it's better for both of you. there is nothing can fix your problem except moving on with your dreams and life.


do you feel he is like your brother now than a lover? if yes, definitely move on.

ppl always (well most of the time) made the wrong decision when they are young, naive and inexperience. And when they fall in love, they use their heart rather than their brain.


When one grows older, one is wiser and smarter, and his/her ambition and what he/she wants in life change as one matures, in a perfect scenario, it should be both parties grow together but in reality, this is almost always not the case. so you are down to 2 options: (a) stay with him depsite the difference, if your love for him is so great you can accomodate his not being align with you mentally (2) if you are SURE u don't love him anymore (ppl do fall out of love regardless of whatever reason), why drag on and make both of you miserable. But you have to be v sure of your feeling to take this route, I would say, cool down for a while and see how you feel for him then.

cladestine, i actually think he is at least as selfish as you by not moving with you.


iwilltry is for once right when she says the following: "At the end of the day, when you're tired from work back home, you realise you actually need just a 'home' to rest down and someone who cares about you not what has happened at work (because he may not understand it)...."


the question is whether he can provide that home for you. for me personally, it means not only cooking and dinner together, treating each other nice and showing love but also highly engaging debates about politics, business, sports, technology, society, etc. that whole package is how i will feel that someone actually cares for me - and is not just selfishly assuming that what he/she needs is also what i need.


if i don't have that whole package (or at least bits and pieces of it now and then), i would not feel at home and i will feel my partner lacks something that i need in the long run.

I totally agreed with cookie, the whole package is that counts!! exactly my view!!!

Very objective but simple point.


Not everything can be fixed. No matter how hard we try.

Very good advice by our kind and mature posters.

I agree with iwilltry the most. I believe marriage is life-long commitment two people make to each other. Not just a place to make each other feel happy all the time. You did not know what you wanted before marrying him and you still do not know what you want now other than the "dreams" you mentioned many times.

Don't be fooled by the possibilities of the "dream". THEY DO NOT EXIST! What is real is what you are having now. How do you know for sure you WILL meet the person who can satisfy every aspects of your dream since you don't even know what you want? How do you know for sure what you are dreaming about now won't change especially after your dreams before marriage has changed since?

You mentioned your dream about living oversea. I can't help worrying for your naivety of this overly simplified version of dreams. Do you know what exactly means by living oversea???

I see you are already out-growing your husband and on the path out when you making your way to HK all by yourself. Sorry to say that so frankly.

My opinion on this is: what makes an existing marriage happy and healthy is what you can give, not what you can get.

Fish know how to swim.


Life is about choices,the older we get the wiser we are supposed to be but how do we know what choices to make is if we don't make as many mistakes as possible,while we still can.


My opinion is that Cladestine should give up everything and run,find what she is looking for without regret and use the experience as a stick by which to measure things.


Plenty time for other things while you're still thirty ish


Read my bit about "in the end does it really matter"


Live for now its only once,go for broke,be the tiger whatever metaphore you like to use.


As for the guy,I feel sorry but this is not going anywhere, and he will find what works for him in time.


Years ago I had a friend whose wife suggested no one could look after him if she left because he was a hopless romatic, to day he is a fat slob and she is a bitter woman still dreaming about the Maldives(it may sink before she gets there)


This is a forum so let not get bitter,its just my opninion.


lee du ploy (hong kong)

What is the matter with being selfish, when it comes to deciding who you want to spend your life with? I mean, do we marry out of a sense of obligation to other people? No, we marry because we want to share a life with someone, ourselves, our hopes our dreams etc. All you seemed to have shared is the marriage arrangements... then after that, you've got no shared interests and background etc. Are you supposed to stay married with someone you don't even particularly care about? I don't get this. Surely, it would be better to be alone and free than being married to someone who is grossly incompatible?


I think you need to analyse why you married this person. Sounds like you thought it was a good idea at the time, but he is not really suitable. There is no harm in admitting that now, but all the harm in the world living in a state of denial about it.

Hi Clandestine,


Your situation is quite similar with mine 6 years ago, only I have a kid with him and we both leave in Hong Kong and now separate in bed and board. We got married secretly from my family for my fear that he will be rejected because of his level of education and his job. I married him not because we are compatible, actually, we don't have things in common. I did love his thoughtfulness is all. But that thoughfulness of him vanished after few yrs when our son was born when I want to pursue my higher education like you, my dreams. During that time, I thought of divorce as an option as we are not happy with each other but I have fear the impact in my family status way back home, because divorce is out of the dictionary in my clan. Then I offered, a try out like separate from bed and board without going through any further legalities, to see if we will miss each other if we does which it did not, it became worse as he didn't visits his son or any financial support and that I missed someone,, a husband where I can talk about what happen in my day from work or about my sons achievements. It's frustrating when you come home alone in your room. So think tiwce, maybe you don't love him now but there are things someday that you will missed him...like when he cooks food for you or calls you in the office and asked what do you want for dinner??? You know the saying, " You don't know what you've got untill it's gone." Again. think twice.


hun196988

Look - I don't know why people are so hung up on why they got married - visas, passports etc... there's nothing in Clandestine's posts to suggest that she's remotely manipulative... the way I read it, she got married in a flush of young love, when it seems like everything will sort itself out - and then has found that she's grown in a different way to him... I'm not with the guy I was with in my 20s - no we didn't get married, but realistically, only because my folks would have killed me ;)


it's hard knowing what to do... you love and respect this guy, he's a good guy (it's much easier to leave a guy who's a *******) but yet you feel a yearning to travel and have lots of experiences before you settle down in one place and raise children... lots of people who find themselves in HK have just that feeling...


Obviously it would be ideal if he shared your longings, but he's at a different stage in his life and can't do what you need from him


I think you need to take some time to really understand what's important to you.. if you leave this man, there will be heartache and loneliness... but there sounds like there's a lot of that there now anyway... leaving someone is hard, painful, lonely - staying with someone who clips your wings can be the same - suffocating, painful, lonely - and you run the risk of becoming exceptionally resentful of him and destroying the marriage anyway, albeit at a later stage when you have less options available...


don't get me wrong, I have huge respect for marriage and I think couples need to work hard to make them work - but I also believe that people need to be happy...

Agreed, Kate- Clandestine is obv. a talented & hard working young woman & it's unfair to suggest that she needed a passport. She didn't want to stay back home & he didn't want to come here, seems like no basis for a continuing marriage. The very fact that she's spilled her guts to us & taken advice form all these strangers says it all. Get out while you're still young Clandestine & let him found a gril who wants what he does. In the long run you'll both be better off. Let us know...

Entitlement and justification........those two big words that describe our world.


lee du ploy

Clandestine,

I perceive that you are a tipical finanical person - very logical, analytical, and good at collecting facts objectively in a large sense - so claimed. But there might be some reason-behind you have ingored or missed out -

- You have larger dreams than your hubby which you mentioned to work overseas and to experience more. I sense your dream is really BIG.

First the biggest is to go overseas so that you can experience more in life.

Second is about yourself to achieve more in your career.

Third is you want a partner who is capable of everything from outdoor activities to material needs to spiritual communications.


If the marriage was happened in an innocent and naive stage of your life, that's understandable though people would think it's silly. But I don't see right now you have figured out what exactly you want in your life either personal experience wise or professional career wise. As I am in your professional sector, moving around a lot is not neccessarily a good progression. Most employers love stable and steady people with tractable achievement. If you want it both, you can gain life experience through a good employer who can provide you overseas relocation work experience without sacrafice of your marriage (I guess this is what on your mind; I am talking in a large sense, not only to your current one). If you still want to give it a shot, this is the first thing you need to know.


But just as you are doubting your decision to marry this guy 2y ago, you are suspecting the final decision to seperate with him. What you are talking about is all about YOU - your dreams, your needs, your satisfactions; and about HE-CAN'T - he can't take you overseas, he can't discuss deep thoughts, he can't leave his current job, he can't make enough money, he can't understand you...


So now let's talk about him.

Have you thought about that he might actually know what you want but just out of his capability? Since he comes from a different background, he was intimidated in the first place - you have a better family background, you have a higher edu. you have wider interest, you are more aggressive... and now you are earning more than him.

And since we questioned why you married this guy, we should also question why this guy would marry you burried in mind all the intimidations? Learnt from his first marriage, he was supposed to be wiser to choose the next partner and adjust to a more suitable couple modle (if not the case, then let's just say he is a fool). He tried hard to work it out and might still be trying. I believe the conflict and afflication is no less than yours. It doesn't seem he doesn't love you but he knows he can't keep you and doesn't have the right to set a bar in your career (for him, due to his edu. and current crisis, this stable job is the best solution to feed him and the family, he has no better competition in the local market let alone overseas). He hasn't opened the mouth to bring the seperation to the table, because he doesn't want to be inprinted a 2ed divorce loser besides the illusion to win you back.

The last question is - how do you define a good husband? Do you need a husband to be a soulmate, a lover, a sex partner as well as a daddy, a son, an ATM...? I know what can be good to lead a succesful career as a finance person, but that doesn't have to crash with marriage life. I see a lot of finance women have a successful career with hectic work while still manage a successful marriage, with kids.

I'm not really sure what you want us to say. By leaving your husband to go to Hong Kong to work, it sounds like you have already made your decision.


At the end of the day, you're not willing to give up your dreams for his sake, and he's not willing to follow you around the world, so it seems like a no-win situation.


But one thing to consider is that, if you plan to move from country to country, it will be very difficult to find anyone who will be willing to accompany you. Anyone well-educated and career-oriented is unlikely to be that mobile. So I think your choice is not just between your husband and your dreams, but a future with anyone permanently and your dreams. Of course, if you are very lucky, you may be able to find someone suitable, but it's not something you can count on.

Clandenstine

There was a brilliant practical book I read on this whole subject of indecision about whether to stay or go a few years ago. In the first chapter it asked a simple question.

Something like " Think back to the beginning of the relationship with your partner. Was it ever really good? Were you passionately in love? Did everything feel right? Chances are that if your answer is "no" ,then if it was never really good when your relationship should have been at its best, then it never will be in the future. In this case you do not need to read the rest of the book. It does not mean that your relationship has to be madly passionate for the rest of your time together. But if it never was, the signs are not good. If the answer is "yes" read on, there is a chance that the relationship could be repaired"

It then went on to ask a series of other questions.

Have you ever asked the first question.?I see nothing in your postings to say that it was really great in the beginning.Perhaps it was but you did not mention it. Possibly comfortable, some shared interests, a caring and good guy. But maybe you need more than that to compensate you for all your other frustrations which have now developed.

I wonder how this all panned out?


Did she stay (and is now happy or regretting it) or did she divorce (and now single and happy or single and lonely or with a partner (happily or not)?