Posted by
pringle88
12 yrs ago
Stuck in a sticky situation. Im from HK and moved over here with my partner of 9 years from Aus. We moved so I could be closer to my family. Early last year we got married in Aus, of which majority of our friends from HK flew over to witness. During Oct, I got suspicious of my husband as I could tell things weren't right and he admitted he was texting/seeing someone on the side as I was too busy for him and he felt 'neglected'. Drama queen. Anyway, I have quite a successful job, and he is often left on own during some evenings, while I am out working. I said I was going to leave him and he threatened to take his own life, as I was the only one who really cares for him (he doesn't have any close friends in HK and is not so close with his family in Aus). So I forgave him and promised him
that I wouldn't spend so much time on my work.
A patchy xmas went by, and we went away during CNY on a sort of 'patch things out' holiday. It went really well, we spoke about how we felt and that we were newly married and having children. He really wants children at the moment and has booked in with the Family Association for us to visit next week.
Then last night, I just so happen to go on his email, and BAM - there it is - email messages to and from this girl he was seeing in Oct. Things such as, i love you, i may be with my wife but my heart is with you, and this girl emailing him back asking him to spend more time with her and telling him she wants to be his 'Mrs'. Emails and pictures galore. The whole thing. Even emails from when we were on our patch-up holiday "had to quickly sneak away to tel you I miss and love you!!"
What the hell right? Just the other day he was saying he really wants kids now and wants me to stop contraception and blah blah blah.. and then this? Why would he still want kids?
So husband comes home, after I discovred all this when he was at the gym. I calm my nerves and act out all normal as if i didn't know anything.
Now the question is - how the hell do I tell him? I want to leave him. I want separation/divorce. This is not the first time he has 'wandered' off in our relationship, as it happened many years ago and he promised he changed.
We share a house together, he has no friends and no family here. I am scared if I leave him, he will do something silly to himself, like he always said he will. Emotional blackmail i know, but it is working.
Also, how do I break the news to my family and friends, who all flew over to our wedding? They all love him and think he is great. Together we meet up with my family at least twice a week without fail. If I start showing up on my own, they will get suspicious.
sorry for the long message....... i don't even know where to start. haven't even told my closest friends as I am greatly embarrassed this has happened. I have a lot of pride which has now been shattered.
he kissed me goodbye before he left for work and he has booked dinner and movies tonight.... how and when shall i break the news?!?!
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is he working? Do you own property together?
Thank goodness you don't have kids because that makes things a lot easier.
Gather all the evidence you can now
I think there's a chance he wants to get caught as no guy would be dumb enough to leave that stuff open for you to see.
Good luck.
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I'm with rititt.
Jesus Keeeriiist, woman! Wake up and smell the poo!
Ok, so here's the thing. Why the fudge would you care what your parents are going to think? I mean, did honesty never occur to you when it comes to explaining things to them?
"Mum, Dad, Sister, Brother, Aunt, Uncle...I am leaving my husband because he has been bonking some chick on the side since October when I caught him last year...which could actually have been longer, who knows, you know, coz October is when I discovered it."
So they go, "Really? How do you know?"
"Well, he fessed up to it in October and then last week I used the computer and found his e-mails open, so I looked through them and find out he has been going on and on with this woman, even saying "I love you"!!! I feel so cheated, used, angry, and to think this lying POS was saying he wants to have kids!! He was going to hurt not only me but the kid too??? I cant believe I have been so blind!!! Please, don't judge me for working hard, he is blaming me but I know, I am not the one who is weak here, but at this moment in time, I really need your support, as a friend and as my family..."
*silence*
Yes, well, you are probably not keen to tell your parents or family because of something more self-oriented than selflessness for your hubby.
Its not about you being all "I dont want to burst their bubble, they love him!" its more likely, "They may say I was working too long, maybe they will say he wouldnt have looked elsewhere if he was getting what he wanted from me"
But heres the thing, this isnt the first time he has done this. You can tell them that. That he has done this before and although it hurt before, you forgave him, but now??? Wow, its too much crap for you to take, and so being as you respect yourself far too much and you believe that you shouldnt have to settle for second best, you are DTMFA...right now.
Family protects their own. No matter how they welcomed him into their arms, it was because you were attached to him, they can just as well ditch him if he hurts you. You are an adult, grow a pair, I know how it is with Asian families, you are all worried about their judgement of you being a failure or whatever...but hey, its up to you who will keep living your life after your folks are 6 feet under. Its only you who will have to live it. Know what I mean? Your folks, no matter what, they just want you to be happy.
Good thing you havent got any kids for him to use as blackmail. Get back on that pill or get an IUD shunted into that vajayjay! And for crying out loud, quit feeling bad for him. He's the one who has been careless with your heart, your life, your future...so screw him (metaphorically, I mean).
For once, just be honest and stand your ground, and trust me ALL men, even the ones who want you to ditch them, will act like "Please don't leave me" after they cheat on you...but its all just so it looks like they were the one making an effort and it was you that wanted out...when really, its a very clever way to turn it around on you and blame you for the relationship breaking when really, its their dicks that pushed you over the edge!
Good luck!
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And I'm with Adele, nab copies of ALL those e-mails ASAP, will come in handy for the divorce, if you got the ol "irreconciliable differences" route.
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Hang-on.
I am not one to defend cheaters in any way, but look at this from the guy's perspective. He moved to HK (apparently) to be with you, he knows not a single soul over there, and you have been away working all the time, making him feel even more alone. What was he to do? What would you do? This is neglect, and neglect in a place where he has nothing to fall back onto. So he gave up his life in Aus to spend day and night alone?
Does he even work in HK? Cos if you have a great job and can provide for both, this is great, but work is not just money, it also is something that makes us feel good and feel like we are accomplishing something and feel happy about ourselves and our lives.
So he got immensely bored and had fun with some chick, who is happy to give it to him on the regular, so what? What has he done for her, apart from sticking it? Has he ever not been there for YOU? Has he ever not kept a promise he has made to you? Not done anything you have asked him to? As we all know men love telling their lovers that they love them and will leave their wives for them, when everyone knows this is NEVER going to happen in real life. EVER. Because they love the wife, and are just playing with the lover, and want to prolong the play.
Men cheat, even if they love their wife to death. This is fact and nature. Don't threaten this man who already is lost. Talk to him. Ask him questions and understand what is happening to him. If you love him. If you don't, why did you guys even get married?
And what on earth are you doing going through his emails? I could write you a heart-breaking email telling you how much I love you and want to be with you for the rest of my life, and my heart was breaking at the thought of never seeing you again. I could do it right now. Especially if I knew you would give me some loving, I would write such a wonderful email.... you would be swept of your feet and running to me. Would it be sincere? Hell NO. Would I do anything that my girlfriend needs me to help her and forget about you until I have time to play? Hell YES.
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Ok, just a moment, time out, Lunatic.
"Men cheat, even if they love their wife to death. This is fact and nature."
Er, I think you do some men a real disservice with this assumption. Just coz you may cheat, or your Dad or brother cheats, doesn't mean all men cheat.
And by no means does it mean that the following line must be "women forgive"!
OP is not looking for someone to give advice on how she must forgive her cheating husband, she is looking for a way to break the news of how she doesn't want to have anything to do with him and to find a way to do it without hurting her family. Her hubby is an emotional blackmailing d-bag in addition to lying and cheating. Do you really want to be considered to be "just another guy" like him? I wouldnt put all men into that category, as I said, it does em a disservice.
I am sure if your gf went around bonking other guys behind your back but then when with you would say nothing of the sort and would even say that she wanted to make babies with you, oh yeah, you'd be singing a different tune. Am I wrong?
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+1 You are again absolutely right Justin.. loved that opening line lol.
Im with the other posts, get out before you have kids... just imagine the neglect he will feel then... and its going to be YOUR fault of course! lol.
Pringle, people can change, but when it comes to cheating, its usually for the worst.. dont believe for a second that he'll stop his cheating ways.
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Wow what incredible advice to wake up to from ALL of you, thanks so much guys, really really appreciate it!
We are both renting a place. He is also working, but at a job he doesn't like as it payssh*tty. I have saved all the evidence, emails, fbook messages and even a couple of pictures! to be honest i bring the most money home and i know he will struggle if i leave.
Lunatic, it is nice to see both sides of the coin and I have thought all about it, but to be honest the other side seems a lot more shinier! If all men cheat, WTF?, why the hell am I even going down this route. Surely there is someone! and i checked his emails as i was suspicious... and thankfully i did... or we wouldn't even be in this spot and I would of just played honesty wifey while captaina**hole was sticking someone else as you put it!
so anyway, last night captaina**hole took me out for dinner and movies and then pulls out a box of jewelry he bought saying it was an early valentines present and starts talking about plans he has made. I wanted to vomit in my mouth cos i knew none of it was sincere. I think he knows something is on my mind and is starting to get worried.
How should i tell him i know everything? I want to do it calmly. Last time I caught him in Oct and spoke to him he got really angry and threw his phone against the wall and also threatened to hurt himself if I ever leave him.
I'm thinking make arrangements to stay at a friends house for the next few nights, then before I leave I sit him down and tell him everything I know and that I want to separate and then leave the house when he loses his temper.
I was also going to email his little slutbag on the side (and CCing captaina**hole in the email) telling her I know everything and that she and him can spend the rest of their lives together in loving harmony without having to snoop around anymore.
The funny thing is I actually know her as she has the same circle of friends as me, and whenever we are together she does all she can to avoid me and walk away from me
OR
should I just move out of the house when he pops out for a while and email her (CCing captaina**hole) telling them I both know what is happening and include pictures and evidence in my email so they can't deny it. that way I don't actually have to see/put up with his temper and he can just find out when he gets home, checks his emails and notice that I have moved out?
OR i could try sitting him down at home, warn him that what i'm about to tell him will shock him and promise me to listen and not lose his temper (cos he keeps his promises right!??!!) and then tell him everything I know and listen to his side of the story? Then tell him I want seperation and tell him he has to move to the couch while I take the bed? and that over the next few weeks we make arrangements to fully separate?
this is going to be a long weekend if i don't break the news soon.......... captaina**hole is now cooking breakfast....
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Just leave.
Please.
If after this short time he can cheat, what is going to happen after you have a child.
When you stomach are flabby, when you are a bit older.
When he has a better job.
Or if he has nothing and he is bored as he is now...
Just walk and let him be the man and take care of himself.
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hi fliedice
you do not need to sit and talk to him, this is what i think, JUST A ADVISE
reason is, whatever you talk he would try to move you by emotions and other tricks.
he is a liar and will be always a liar, no matter what you do and talk.
so best is you simply get ready for separation u have all evidence with you.
let him live his life.
it would be hard for you at the moment, but you dont have a better choice.
let him live with his own choice, he would regret for sure.
just think, if you continue go with him what can you get in the future? same story same cheat.
then might be very late.
sorry if my advise is not right, just my thoughts for you,
cheers
( i am based in Hong Kong)
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i did not say that ALL men cheat. there are exceptions. but the exceptions only prove the rule. the only people i need to ask about this are my female friends and the facts come out pretty quickly
strangely enough, none of my male friends admit to cheating on their gf or wife, but almost all of my female friends have been cheated by their boyfriends/husbands. and also a number of friends who had long term affairs with married men, but not a single case where the man left his wife. physical excitement has nothing to do with love and commitment.
all i am saying is that the fact that he is sleeping with someone else, does not mean he does not love you. if the thought of him doing it makes you wanna vomit, as it seems, then sure dump him. but if you have some feelings for him and there are things he gives you that maybe others have never given you, it is worth talking to him. my humble opinion. clearly you are the lead in this relationship, his self-confidence must be shattered. what kind of man moves with his wife to a country where he needs to depend on her? was he like this when you met? after all you liked each other enough to get married?
you are all free to hate everything i have said. but i am always pro trying to solve problems in a relationship. it is easy to say to our partners "you did this, this, this, this, you are evil and a complete ass" but this is the person we have chosen and sometimes investing patience and understanding can help both.
just do yourself a favor. if you break up with him, don't send drama emails to him and his lover. the only time you would need to contact a lover is to tell her to leave your partner alone and gtfo.
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Straight answer to your problem: If you are sure you want to cut it off, don't tell him in person, you don't know what kind of reaction he would have or what emotional games he will play. Don't buy into the "I'll hurt myself" crap, but do call the police to protect him from himself if he says it, at least that will show you are serious and he needs to move on.
Some things to think about but don't answer your question:
But honestly, it sounds like you created this situation yourself, so don't expect your next guy to be any better if you are just going to do the same thing again. From the sounds of it you are a career woman without much time for your husband. You are already 'cheating' on him, with your job. At some point you have to admit that you are not innocent here either and also understand that MOST guys cheat at some point (though this is a little early on), and only the most asexual of guys would *not* cheat when neglected as you have done to him. (Can you handle a guy that just doesn't like sex at all? Cause that's probably what you're going to have to find if you don't want a 'cheater' and you want to continue prioritizing career over family...)
He obviously feels 'worthless' and you aren't helping the situation at all, so he has gone to another girl who will make him feel like he is not just a worthless/useless guy.
Not saying that ALL guys cheat, or that it's OK to cheat, but ALL the guys I personally know have definitely done so at some point, and I suspect many guys here who are all "I would never cheat" etc etc are absolutely full of crap.
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Well to give you some background I am a guy who cheated on his wife when she was my girlfriend, fiance (even a few days before the wedding), and when we were married (we are divorced now). We were both white and she left her family and job when I received a job opportunity in asia. She was religious and also was concerned about what her family and friends thought if we got divorced so she stayed in the marriage for a while until I forced a divorce.
If I were you I would not think too much about all the "love" emails. Although I would need to know more he is probably just saying it because she says it or stringing her along.
That leaves you with the lies and cheating.
With the cheating, I suggest you try to find out why he is cheating..is it because the sex is good (perhaps he has kinks you are unaware of) or she is young and attractive and it makes him feel like he accomplished something, etc. If it is something you can fix and want to fix then try.
The lying is more challenging. You may want to sit him down tell him you are aware he is seeing her. Then suggest you want to work on the marriage and if he wants to continue to see her that you are fine with that IF he never lies about it or anything else. It will be hard but it will enable you to learn more about what is going on in his mind and to build trust. You will have the right to ask anything including details of dates, sex, problems, good things and bad. He also should be telling you when he is seeing her and if he sees or has sex with others
If, like I suspect, you are the primary foundation in his life and the other woman is just filling in the cracks then eventually there will be no cracks to fill.
I know many will be angry with my suggestion, but think about this--the greatest thing this woman has over you is that she knows about you but you dont know about her. He has the freedom not to keep secrets and to tell her all the the things that frustrate him about you. Once you take this away and fix the sex (it always partially relates to sex), things may improve.
Of course the other option (and the better option) is leave or ask him to leave. It seems you want to leave but are just embarrassed because of family and friends. This is no reason to stay married and just will not work...as it creates more lies and worse sex. He isnt going to kill himself...he is just scared about what to do next...just get out
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Sorry to read and hear about this. Put simply he is taking the pis*, get yourself out of this mess quick and find someone better and move on...
Even if you work things out, it will happen again in the future and there will always be a thorn in your heart, that's very normal!
If he is going to kill himself then there is not much else you can do there, he could ask his lover to comfort and save him. And it's not about you don't have time, so does that mean every guy can go finding a lover if that's the case gez lol.
Save the time, get the papers in and move on, his a serial cheat.
Goodluck, not that you need it.
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Pringle,
Having read your reply, i find it unuusal how unemotional you are about this whole situation.. after all you are making one of the biggest decisions of your life.
I mean, it was only two nights ago that you again discovered your husband is not faithful. Most people who cherish their other half would be in a state of shock, trying to sink in what is happening and here you are putting forwarad option A, B and C as if you are deciding which movie to see on a saurday night.
Putting forward these scenarios of CC-ing all the evidence is something i may have considered doing when i was 16. Its not about getting even, or how you tell him, its about making the decision to actually tell him that you no longer want to be a part of his life. And you need to be sure of the decision you make.
All the best.
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rob i have to agree with your last post there. something is odd.
by all means leave the guy since you and him are not meant to be married. but like others have said, if you continue to live your life like today, either find an eunuch, a co-worker with the same life or fidn the perfect guy for you and be prepared to get dumped by him
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*edit* hk6279's best bit of advice: "Of course the other option (and the better option) is leave or ask him to leave. It seems you want to leave but are just embarrassed because of family and friends. This is no reason to stay married and just will not work...as it creates more lies and worse sex. He isnt going to kill himself...he is just scared about what to do next...just get out"
The stuff before, well, *edited* hk6279, you know you cant expect to give OP advice on how to stay with and forgive "captaina-hole" after you yourself said you cheated on your wife, she forgave you, was embarrassed to get divorced and then you ditched her anyway...I mean, hardly a winning "how to" is it? Lol. I genuinely believe, when someone forgives a cheater and takes them back then the cheater himself starts to resent being forgiven and slowly starts to see the forgiver as weak and then totally dumpworthy. Anyone with self-respect wouldn't put up with someone else treating them like crap. Just sayin...
I feel for OP, I think, and this is just me, its quite easy to assess a crap situation, especially one in which you KNOW someone is lying to you and you have to bite your tongue so as to avoid not going "Oh you *bleeping* LIAR!!!!" heck, I would be sick to my stomach with rage, absolute, unadulterated, rage, I tell ya!~
That said, its not about the worries of who OP will get in the future, she doesn't need advice on that, we don't need to speculate on "oooh, you will not be able to find someone better" (which, really, come on, thats not true), or that she needs to change her attitude, I mean, the woman has been cheated on, wants to leave, and CURRENTLY, is in a frame of mind that one can only classify as severely p-d off!
Give her a break.
I know what it feels like to have someone lie to my face and then to have to do everything I can to maintain my composure and to stop seething long after the fact. This is the place the OP is likely coming from, y'know? She doesn't give a crap who she will date after this, she's just mad in the here and now, about the huge serving of disrespect she has been served up with a side of BS!
Sucks...sadly...
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Pringle88: I used to be a legal secretary, and worked for many divorce lawyers. Here's what you do:
1. Print out copies of those emails IMMEDIATELY. As a back-up, email them to yourself, but be sure to go into your "sent emails" folder and delete the evidence that you've sent them to yourself. If your husband has access to your email, open up a free yahoo.com account for yourself, and send them to that.
2. DO NOT let on that you know everything. Wait until he's out of town, then go rent a flat for yourself, and move your clothes, etc. into it. Take whatever you might need, but try not to overdo it, so you won't have to return anything.
3. Get a new cell phone number; go to a PCCW shop and get a pre-paid SIM card, which can be done in a hurry, and the clerk will load all your data into it from your old number.
3. Since you're working, set up a new account in your name only, with your NEW address, and have your paycheck directly deposited to it.
4. Leave copies of the emails on the bed when you leave your marital flat for the last time (while he's gone). When he comes home, he'll know why you left, and he'll know he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Don't think about your family right now; they'll get over it. You've done nothing to be ashamed about, he has. Think about yourself, and your family will get over it.
Last of all, turn a deaf ear to his "I'll kill myself" bull$hit talk. He won't do it. If he had any courage at all, he would have been honest with you in the first place. And do NOT listen to any man who tells you that it's your fault he's straying! Any man who would rather cheat than tell you he's unhappy with some part of the marriage is not a man worth hanging onto, anyway. And even if he did it, it would be his choice. Just make sure you don't kill him yourself, and you'll be fine.
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MJ_78
12 yrs ago
... you all should be ashame of yourself for leaving these kind of comments (in fact except Lunatic) .. y'all don't deserve to be married or be loved by the way how you think and play with love.. doubt the partner that you choose. It's a personal question but please don't answer it in public.. feel free to say that I am wrong... how often do you have sex with your husband!? I mean intimate ones... then ask yourself.. why did you marry this man?? because you are insecure and afraid to be lonely?? Man and woman both have needs.. and we are made to be together to fulfill our needs.. marriage is about companionship.. not hurting each other. Don't listen to these comments were these people couldn't even keep a relationship together.. they are either single or divorce -_-" I am still married with my husband.. knew him for 10 years and married for 6.. just had great sex =P intimate sex still and at least twice a week.. but the most important part is we make sure that we keep each other satisfy
I know in your mind you said he cheated and... etc... but he admitted that he was talking/texting someone else.. (that's not cheating).. then you ignor.. you fail to fix your own relationship problem.. wait until your husband did something wrong so you can be right again. You are throwing away everything.. something very valuable here.. a man that is willing to talk to you, make you happy, will be there when you are down and especially share things with you like he is talking to someone else (that makes a man very vulnerable) but then you probably did one of those dramatic scene things... and shatter everything because probably you believe he is unfaithful but at the same time you probably didn't fulfill yourself after marriage too.. I am really trying to help here.. and I will stop here because probably a lot of people would not agree with me.. but I know what needs to be done cause I know I won't be needing to hunt for another partner when I am older...
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Justin Credible:
You may have me confused with someone else...? I didn't write the part you quoted me on...
And just to be clear: I surely haven't cheated on my wife because I've never been married...
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Sorry to read this - I can imagine how betrayed you must feel when you saw those emails.
There majority of men who cheat do so because so this because their wife is no meeting their needs (see the comments from MJ_87) ..... and then there are men who cheat because they have a pathological need to cheat. The latter kind may be sexaholics, misogynistic - whatever the cause, the result is the same - they are incurable cheaters.
You need to be really honest with yourself here and work out WHY this is happening.
Is he still sleeping with the “October girl” ? it seems not any more. So it’s likely he’s not an incurable cheater.
If you really forgave him & tried patched things up, why is he still corresponding with this other woman if he’s not sleeping with her ? I get the impression he is manipulative more than sexually adventurous; and in fact his cheating is a result of his need to control others more than a desire for sex. The ability to string both of you along, and the fact that you fear for his wellbeing more that your own support this. It’s likely he seeks to manipulate women because his ego is damaged - perhaps because you are the primary breadwinner, perhaps a messed-up relationship with his mother.
They way to solve this is to stroke his ego, meet his sexual needs, and without smothering him, make him feel like a “big man”. If his ego finds a sense of satisfaction in your marriage it’s likely he will not stray again.
good luck.
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Shoot, my apologies gaz!!! I think it was hk6279 and not you. Ack, a thousand apologies. I should read the headers of these things better.
Best to go back and edit? Or should I leave it there as my screw up? Dagnammit, how do I fix this?
Once again, gaz-hayes, sorry, not you, totally different poster I should have been directing my comments to.
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@ Lunatic.
"Has he ever not been there for YOU? Has he ever not kept a promise he has made to you? Not done anything you have asked him to?"
Errrr....one would assume that when he got married to this woman that he promised to be faithful to her and her alone-generally considered a prerequisite of most marriages. Clearly, any assumed understanding or agreement contrary to that understanding of commitment was lost on the OP. And "being there for you (her)" precludes him nipping off to send emails and the like while they are on vacation to patch things up, to say the least. I too take offense to your assumption about men cheating: that is about as broad and misguided a generalisation as you get. And unfair.
Having had his opportunity to rectify his past indiscretions, OP has made the right choice. I agree that pandering to his emotional blackmail is not an option and I see no need to beat around the bush. As other posters have suggested, gather the evidence, get your ducks in a row and simply confront him with the truth. No need to tip toe around him or the issue. He's made his bed (no pun intended). Not sure on your prenuptual agreement or the laws in Oz, but if you are in a position to (and if he has no commitments here in HK (other than his floozy)), buy him a one way ticket back home.
All the best.
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MJ_78
12 yrs ago
I think it really comes down to.. Cheating (as a man.. i believe woman had already knock themselves out of this category.. -_-" ) is when a person is dishonest, and lied... for example if you ask your partner did you go hang out with this woman and he answers no but you know he did <-- that's cheating and caught (busted).. but if he answered yes.. then that is compromising.. which a lot of couples should work on..
A clever man can cheat without you even knowing it... just be glad you don''t have one of those.. and one of those clever man that can definitely knows how to delete their email or set password to his email so you can't go through it... he trusted you so please Pringles be glad and happy with what you choose.. and see the good in him instead of all the bad.
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He trusted you, so please be glad?
Pshh, what about her having trusted him and then been proven wrong??? I suppose he was too busy seeing the good in some other woman on the side! Lol.
(Sorry, it had to be said)
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MJ_78, just because you're having satisfying, intimate sex twice a week, it doesn't mean your husband is not cheating on you...
2 girlfriends of mine with apparently great sex lives, one married for 14 years and one for 22 years have both had their men cheat on them. The 14 year one had great sex daily whilst her husband was running affairs with at least 3 women over the years and is at the beginning of a separation. The 22 year one was always on a pedestal and adored by her passionate and loving husband....until he left her for the woman he'd been seeing for more than a year.
The frequency or quality of the sex in a marriage is no guarantee of anything
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selda
12 yrs ago
some people are just unable to be faithful, even to those they claim to love.
I met several men (and women) like that, and almost invariably the reasons are so obvious, you don't need to be a trained psychologist to see them. Sex (lack of it in their marriage) is seldom the main reason. The main reasons i have seen are insecurity masked as over-confidence, pathological narcissism, lack of self-control.
If your man earns less than you, or is out of work, he may cheat just to get an ego-boost.
The choice to stay with a heater is yours, but bear in mind that cheaters seldom change and if you cannot stand the idea of your spouse cheating, you'd better get out of this marriage. Otherwise it will undermine your confidence and self-esteem.
I had my fair share of cheating partners, and believe me, they did a lot of damage. The good new is that there are faithful guys out there, and life gets a lot better and easier (no more drama!) when you meet one.
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Once again, selda has hit the nail on the head.
Pathalogical narcissim, lack of self control and over confidence that masks deep rooted insecurity!
100% agree.
Have a friend-of-a-friend of mine who just renewed his vows last year, as if he is all romantic and stuff, but he cheats on his wife almost weekly! *SMH*
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Selda, very well said, exactly my thought, some people will keep on blaming their partners (lack of intimacy, no great sex blah blah blah..) for their cheating just to make themselves feel better.
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selda
12 yrs ago
sorry about 'cheater' becoming 'heater', and 'news' becoming 'new'. Old keyboard...need to press keys hard...which i didn't at 1:00 am!
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MJ_78
12 yrs ago
Well said too Selda.
I mean I hate to say it and I know a lot of people might not like it but sex (mainly the intimacy & companionship) is very important in a marriage... and I hate to say yes a man will leave you if he doesn't get it... we just have to understand how man works.. we can't blame them for what they do because everybody knows those 2 balls that they have are constantly producing sperms! they need to go somewhere.. -_-" and no.. they can't just masturbate all day long.. if you are one of those woman that thinks that.. your man is probably f*cking somebody else. So you can't talk about a man is unfaithful for seeing another woman... and somehow us woman.. are not unfaithful for rejecting our partner sex???? I know we are in the 21 century here.. but if you are the woman out there that are so dead set on finding the perfect one on TV..good luck! I think you are better off getting yourself a dog cause I bet you they are going to be loyal and faithful... you don't have to give them sex.. they will listen to you blah blah blah.. do your nagging and controlling all you want.
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WTF??? this woman say dogs are better than men ... are you talking here about your husband or your brother or your father or your son or your son-in-law ... please be clear, or else STFU!!!
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MJ_78 - "see the good in him instead of the bad?" are you serious?! don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he is bad in every way and I don't doubt that there are some parts that are good about him or i wouldn't of married him! But surely this 'bad' this happening now surpasses all the 'good', as it is the number one thing not to do in a relationship, especially when you are married. Did I need to put the rules of marriage up in the house for him to understand that?! things were going really well, hanging out, having a good time and regular sex! but obviously life isn't all cherry peach pie.
im beginning to think it was just satisfying the ego...... the more i read comments and suggestions, it seems to be like that. i have the better career, bring in the most money, more friends and a stable family background....things he doesn't have. Surely he felt some sort of superiority over me by lying and cheating on me and i guess he enjoyed that rush.
rob_378 & cookie09 - if you think im being unemotional about the whole thing, then you're completely wrong. if computer screens could cry then you would completely understand. i think there is a clear difference with being unemotional and just trying to stay strong for my own sanity. i have a life to live.
thanks for all the advice....... really appreciate it!
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Either MJ_78 is a cheating husband or a woman who sleeps with other peoples husbands. Lol. Advice like that is really quite priceless. *SMH*
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Justin, with all do respect, I do notbelieve I said my ex forgave me.....thus one of the reasons I asked for my divorce. The point being (and perhaps I was not direct enough) is staying in a marriage because you are "embarrased" to get divorced or for religious reasons, did not work for me. Based on this background I tried to explain what would have worked for me which was 1. Find out why he was cheating and 2. Stop all lying.
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That's OK justin, I don't think you can edit posts after they have been replied to, all cleared up now ;)
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Pringle: It's perfectly acceptable to have this reaction to him serially cheating, but I hope you do actually learn from this and fix your own problems as you are also at fault.
It's pretty obvious why he cheated and honestly you are not going to find a guy who still has his balls attached that would not eventually cheat in the same situation, in fact if he didn't cheat I would be questioning his manhood - he followed you to another country where he has no friends, no life, a crap job, and you pay more attention to your career than you do to him (from your posts).
Be realistic, you simply aren't going to find a guy who hasn't had everything between his legs cut off at birth who would actually stick around in that situation, If you don't do something different then the same problem is going to come up again and you'll either get dumped or be cheated on.
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MJ_78
12 yrs ago
You have just proven to yourself that you are completely ignorant Justin. Only a very careless, stupid, heartless person can even let the person that sleeps beside you cheat without you even knowing! That's why from the beginning of this post I said when the situation is discuss in the open then it's not consider as cheating. If you fail to accept the discussion because it attacks your self-esteem or whatever.. then the couple needs to work on communication and trust. If you are a smart person then you would realize how tiring it is to lie everyday and to come up with excuses. I post my comment here is because we have gone through situation like this. And you know what Justin, I wouldn't even be surprise that you will still be playing this dating game when you are 55... Hit the bars I guess if you need a quicky. Good luck to you all~
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gaz_hayes: yes i completely understand that. hence when i initially found out about this, i cut down a lot of things and made a real effort to spend more time together. Which we did. It was great, had a good Xmas, January and CNY. But obviously that wasn't enough.
Yes we came here together and he knew what he was getting himself into. I must of missed the chapter in the good wife handbook which says I need to find my husband a decent career which pays well, friends so that he is happy and activities to do to keep himself busy. Surely guys find that on their own? I introduced him to my circle of friends, encouraged him to hang out with guy friends and even find a sport or activity he likes....
"you are not going to find a guys who still has his balls attached that would not eventually cheat in the same situation, in fact if he didn't cheat I would be questioning his manhood" - you mean guys cheat on women who are more successful than them? Do women really stop progressing in their career and lives so that their husbands can feel 'manly' and live a happy married life at home?
I did do something different........ but the same thing happened.
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beside feeling hurt do you still love him?
if the answer is no then leave him and start over. it will hurt but you will heal.
anyone telling you how to act or what cheating men are like are just talking nonsense .
if you do love him you need to ask yourself can you forgive him and move on and can you trust him again , if you cant no point trying .
btw
men cheat not just cause of a sexual need or ego but at time emotional need too, some see it as worse then just sex some dont.
the main things is how you are feeling about him should be the main factor in making the decision not what other think of you, not even your family
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That all relates to the first time he cheated, any guy who is going to drop everything and follow you somewhere he has no friends, no life, and no job has already been imasculated, that's a BIG thing you asked him to do, saying "he knew what he was getting himself into" is simply meaningless - you asked him to leave his manhood behind and he obviously loved you enough to do that for you. Then you neglected him (judging from your posts), well that just shows him that you aren't willing to reciprocate, he basically chopped his balls off for you and you think that's fair because you introduced him to your friends...? With a girl like that, most guys would just end it right there, many guys would stick around but cheat, and some guys would just end up a scrap of a man on anti-depressents. You happened to get the middle option, so would you be more happy if he was type 1 or 3 instead or would you be here complaining about that too?
OK So then you found out he was cheating, and obviously thought about the reasons why to some extent, most women simply blame the guy and don't even think about the underlying reasons so you get a bonus point there. Then you tried to spend more time with him and make an effort. But perhaps you didn't really let him know you understand what the problem is, or you spent time with him but did it with a major grudge, or it was too little too late, not sincere enough, etc. Or maybe during the initial period of neglect he really developed a good relationship with the girl he was 'cheating' with (quite likely, since it's the same girl now). Or maybe a combination of all of them. Either way, it's not just him who has to make ammends it's you too, because the reason this whole thing happened is probably because you didn't understand what he actually did for you and simply took it for granted without reciprocation.
Since it took all the way to cheating before you actually realized something was wrong, perhaps he's not convinced you really care about him, and maybe this other girl cares about him a lot more.
I'm just speculating, but it's something to think about.
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totally agree with seekinghelp. your willingness to discuss and work on this with him should be based on your feelings towards him. and also what his feelings are towards you. from the few things you mentioned, the man seems to really care for you. but is also very very insecure at the moment. and something you mentioned - that he does not have a stable family background, not sure you realize it, but in a person who does not have a good family background, the partner becomes even more important in their lives than if that family background is there. i tell you this from experience.
when i am in a relationship, i fully commit myself to the person i love and will go to great lengths to please them and make them happy. i can move to another country, change my lifestyle, do things i don't like to do etc. because that person gives me something that i never had - somebody that i can love unconditionally. but if my partner makes me feel undervalued, neglected, or disrespected in anyway i will get angry, and if our sex life is suffering at the same time, i will go out there and play. not only for an ego boost, but also to just free my mind of the tension i am experiencing at home. because if you love someone very much and you see them somehow becoming distant, being with them at home brings more pressure, than pleasure. as in this situation the person who you love becomes a roommate who dislikes you. and this cannot be very encouraging, and not giving enough emotional support to stop me from going out and enjoying the pleasure of exciting sex with no strings attached.
it is very obvious that this man has changed his life for you, and is undergoing a lot of stress in hk at the moment. no, of course you are not supposed to stop progressing in your career or anything like that. what you are supposed to do is communicate and try to understand your partner. he has understood and accepted your need to go to hk after all... and now he is in a dark hole and you are throwing mud at him. maybe you think that spending 3 weeks of holidays together is enough to make him feel special, but really, it is not going to be that easy. a bit of communication every day may solve this if you are willing to work at it. otherwise, you can go out there and get yourself another man who will have all the things that your husband does not. but will he love you the way your husband does. or will he love you less and cheat on you more. being single is a lot easier than being in a relationship in many ways. but...
you have been together for 9 years, there must be a reason for this relationship to last so long. things we do under stress and emotional turmoil are not completely evaluative of who we are, and what we feel towards another human being.
i don't support cheating in any way. but often, because of lack of communication it is inevitable.
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Cheating has more to do with lack of respect than lack of communication.
We each think that well, this is how I would do things, and this is how it would bother me...
But really, there are plenty of folks who get to the lack of communication phase and don't go out there sticking it to someone else.
Basic lack of respect for the partner your are with but also for yourself.
As someone else pointed out, its not necessary that something has even got to be missing for someone to cheat. Sometimes a cheater just cheats.
Her having a better job wasn't going to change unless she quit and let him have the "better" position. Point is this dude is insecure. Sadly, insecurity is not something that can be fixed externally, thats totally on him and can only be fixed within his own mind.
Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for this guy. He can boo hoo hoo all he wants about having the lesser job and feeling like a lost puppy, if he had some balls he should have voiced those fears before upping and moving. Obviously his job in Oz wasn't all thatsh*t hot either...this isn't just a new to HK thing, its an ongoing thing.
Just coz someone lasts 9 years together doesn't mean it was an awesome 9 years...it could have slowly been limping to the finish line all along, words unsaid, good deeds undone, patience worn down to the bone. Happens all the time.
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There ARE situations where the guy cheating is at least doing no worse than the female partner was doing (by neglect).
Regardless of what job he had in Oz, he dropped his entire life, family, friends, etc for this girl, and she (still) doesn't understand this simply saying "he knew what he was getting himself into", I think that the ridiculous nature of this statement alone shows the kind of emotional torture she has been putting this guy through, directly and indirectly. That is just as bad as cheating, and you would have to have a pretty damn rare guy to get through that without ending up having severe mental problems, divorcing, or cheating.
I don't feel sorry for the guy, not based on the information we have so far anyway but I definitely 'reserve the right' to feel sorry for him after hearing his side of the story. The reason I don't feel sorry for him is because he was stupid enough to trust this girl, he dropped everything for her but she still didn't treat him properly (she expected a holiday and introducing him to her friends to fix everything, wtf!?); he was not strong enough emotionally to cut this girl off instead of letting her drag him to HK like some kind of sissy or accessory, or he refused to see what she was really like and still dropped everything for her.
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selda
12 yrs ago
well said!
This guy's problems in settling in HK do not justify his cheating. Cheating is easier than taking stock of his life and changing what makes him unhappy about the current situation. Guys with balls do not need to cheat to prove their point! Any halfwit moron can cheat to get a quick ego boost. Does that make him a "real" man? Absolutely not. If i went out and cheated on my boyfriend any time i need an ego boost, i would not earn any respect, if anything i would lose self-respect.
Working out issues in my relationship requires more patience, intelligence, and confidence than simply opening my legs. Why should i expect less from a man???
In my life i have forgiven cheaters, just to regret it later. And yet i never regretted giving the boot to those who not only cheated, but also lied to me to cover their actions. Invariably they kept cheating on their new partners/wives.
Cheaters want to be in control. That may explain why this guy wants his wife to have a baby. He knows that once she gets pregnant, she may find it harder to dump him.
I met a similar guy in the past, a boyfriend who was cheating on me while we were about to embark on IVF in the UK for fertility issues we both had. I found out about his other woman just a week before egg transfer (which i promptly cancelled) They had been seeing each other for three months, and he kept claiming that he wanted to get married and have a child with me.
I found out that he got married to someone else a couple of years later. Now they have two children and according to mutual friends, he is still a cheater!
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He has a very weak character. He has a hissy fit when you catch him out and then he immediately goes straight back to his old tricks when you are on holiday. Just copy and paste the emails to show your friends and family once and no more needs to be said.
You should end it the way that gives YOU the best closure as you are actually the one who will ultimately suffer the most as you have a conscience and you will question what happened and why you chose the partner you did. You will be questioning the value and sincerity of people around you.
He will move on to other people and will go on his own path.. You need to erase him and get on with yours.
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"he was not strong enough emotionally to cut this girl off instead of letting her drag him to HK like some kind of sissy or accessory,"
Pshhh, yes, and hence, no sympathy.
Sometimes in life you gotto look at the relationships that don't work out...like stepping stones...stepping stones to the life you want to live, the one your meant to live. Don't feel bad that it didn't work out, just appreciate that it was one of the steps you took towards that happy place.
People sometimes mistake flogging a dead horse as a necessity of life...its not!
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The advice to just dump him and move on ignores the fact that the OP has problems she needs to fix if she doesn't want this to happen again.
Believe what you want, but at some point she is gonna be back here complaining her new bf or husband is cheating on her and she will have no idea why, and the comments here aren't helping her to avoid that at all.
I'm not saying don't get rid of him. I would definitely get rid of him because this is always going to be hanging over your head and you don't want to divorce after you have kids. But just don't get rid of him with the expectation that you are going to find a guy who will put up with you (the way you are now) and also not cheat, that's simply NOT going to happen apart from perhaps some extremely ugly guy, or someone who is at least mildly retarded. Be realistic.
If you're so psychologically dysfunctional that you need to show emails to friends/family then maybe you are completely incorrigable anyway and should probably just stay single.
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OP, may I ask how was your life, or rather your husband’s work arrangement before you both came to HK, is he the main income earner? There must be a reason that you both decided to relocate to HK, and I am sure you two have talked and discussed it thoroughly before you embark on the move, and have considered all the possibility of what will happen when you moved back here. To say that he gave up everything for you to come back here is a little bit strong, we all have to make life choices at sometimes in our life, and for every choice that we made, there is a possibility that the outcome may not be what we have expected. I am sure your husband is aware of that possibility. In that case, the logical way is to work towards a solution, of which I think you have done (your minimizing your workload and spending more time together and etc), the only thing I do not understand is why he would indicate that he wants to have a kid with you, and on the other hand, carries an affair with Ms October…
Pardon me, but something is very wrong with your husband’s character and moral standard, and to be blunt, I do not think he loves you as much as you believe he is, anyway, it looks like he loves the thrill (the excitement of stealing) more than he loves you and perhaps, more than his love to Ms October too. He is cheating on both women, he betrayed your love and trust, making you believe that he will leave all his discretion behind and you are to be the mother of his child. While at the same time, he is giving Ms. October an illusion that someday, perhaps she could be promoted to be his “Mrs”. Anyway, there are a lot of advice and debates for your consideration.
My humble advice is at the end, what really matter is you yourself, ask yourself, will you be happy and content in continuing the relationship with a person who has betrayed your love and trust, and can you totally forgive and forget, and to learn to trust this man again. Because it is too tiresome to have to live everyday thinking will I need to check his phone messages, his bank accounts or his e-mails to make sure he is not having another extra marital affair.
Your family and friends’ view is not your main concern, you are your own person and you are responsible for your own happiness, a true family and friend will back you up and support you in every decision that you made, after all, your family and friends would want nothing but the best for you.
Of course as with every breakdown of a relationship, no one is completely at fault, only who commits the bigger mistake that cause the other one unable to hold on… In HK, most people work long hour, does that mean all their marriages fail, I don’t think so.
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For your friends and family, just tell them the truth.
"He selflessly left his job, friends and family to come to HK so that I could be with MY friends and family. When we got here I didn't spend much time with him and he was basically alone every night. I have no idea why, but he started seeing another girl. Then when I caught him texting another girl he complained that he came all the way to HK for my but he never saw me. I decided he was a drama queen and this is completely his fault because hey, he knew exactly what he was getting into when he left his entire life behind for me, tough cookies. Anyway, even though it's not at all my fault, I thought I'd try and patch it up with a quick holiday, but that didn't work so now I'm leaving him."
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gaz, I hear you man. Of course, it takes two hands to clap, two to tango, etc, etc, etc. Of course, OP is going to have an entire lifetime from now to dwell on what went wrong and why. I am sure, especially since you have put it the way you have, she now just might have to face up to the fact that she had some hand in the whole falling out of love, but sadly at this present moment she is saying that the sexlife wasnt lacking, that they were getting along great, and to a certain degree, she was blindsided by the fact that this schlep was mincing off to send an "I miss you" e-mail while on holiday with her to supposedly patch things up and talk babies.
Sure, she may end up with an insecure dude like this one in the future, but the chances of her ending up with a man who is either more successful than the current chump or even at the bare minimum, as successful as the OP...well, they are pretty good too.
So worrying about how she needs to fear ending up in the same situation is only relevant if she dates another man just like the cheating husband and not, as one would hope for her, gets an upgrade that lacks the baggage as this one carried.
I for one, after my last relationship that went tits up, had a good old-fashioned stint of self-imposed singledom and celibacy before meeting someone totally awesome, and in my eyes (as well as the eyes of all my friends and family) a total upgrade, beyond a doubt.
It can happen to the OP too, right? Maybe she can take some time to be single and get rid of the emotional baggage, a month for every year she was with this chump, and then dip her toe into the dating pool once more, but more self-aware and confident for the lessons she has learned in the time she has given herself to take a break to recover from having made a break.
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OP, while you are contemplating your next move, you might want to consider the sincerity of your husband wanting this marriage to work. I found him to be the worst kind of cheaters, you have decided to let go his infidelity and give the marriage another go, you two agreed to spend some time away supposedly working towards strengthening any conflicts, while he was sugar coating you, he was texting his girl with all those love notes, “i love you, i may be with my wife but my heart is with you” WTF!!! ,!!" He has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever!!
You are the only one who knew why he would act such way, since he earn less than you, may I ask is it because he couldn’t find a better job with higher pay because of his ability or is it because he is just too laid back that he doesn’t bother since there will always be you who will take care of the expenses and bills. If it is because he is too laid back, maybe that could be the answer to him making front like he did want the marriage to work.. and why wouldn’t he, if he could enjoy the best of both world.
It takes two to tango, a marriage won’t work if only one party makes the effort
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@Justin
I completely agree this guy is an absolute douche. Saying he wants a baby while at the same time telling another girl he loves her. I could understand if it was purely physical but it's obviously not. But this also probably means he doesn't believe his wife really loves him and it's not hard to see why.
@Amparo
Perhaps he can't find a decent job here (yet) because he just got here and doesn't have any experience in HK. How can you say he didn't make an effort? Did you miss the part where he gave up his life in his country for this woman and she didn't even spend time with him? That's not very sincere at all and probably had him questioning whether she actually wants to be with him or not - he initially cheated as a REACTION to this, better than going for a divorce.
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OP, sit down and think carefully about who this man is, the guy who you have known for so long. Is he a pathological cheater or has he changed suddenly? Has been loving and caring before the move? If he has changed, then think about why. Look within as well. Be honest.
It is debiliating to have someone that you love (have always been there for, cared for, helped with everything, gotten anything they want, done a million sweet little gestures to please them, etc) start neglecting you. A thousand times more debiliating when the neglecting never stops and is spiced up with negative emotions from them.
Questions, doubts, and worries start popping-up uncontrollably, and one becomes torn between two fronts:
1. convincing yourself that the partner still loves you (they keep claiming that they do)
2. convincing yourself that they never did (you never feel it)
Even the most patient, self-controlled, and collected person will turn into a maniac of some sort if a person they truly love and care fore starts f*cking with their head (even if done unintentionally).
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For Pringles 88:
Pringles, there has been a lot of "hoopla and yabba - dabba" going on above. All I can say is this.
2 women found themselves in the same predicament - cheating husbands. Woman "A" decides (for whatever reasons) to turn a blind-eye and Woman "B" decides to leave - period. Both the womens' decisions were based on purely on a "risk-reward" scenario. There are risks for divorce (financial hardships, emotional stress, stigma, contineous broken heart, etc, etc). The benefits are new life, new love, etc, etc.....I think you can come up with your own risk-rewards scenarios.
Both women, at the end, are satisfied with their choices although different outcomes occured. What you have to do is decide if whether you are woman "A" or "B". What most women will not claim or say in the above links is that many have been cheated by their hubbies decided that the benefits of staying outweighed the risks of leaving and vice versa. I am afraid there is no right/wrong choice here. It's that simple.
Good Luck
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Hey Pringle
Hope you are doing OK - what ever you decide make sure you do it for you - the decision will be right if you base it on being true to your natur... true friends will always be there and family will always love you unconditionally - this is a decision that directs your future no one else's.... Stay strong - time heals and there is obviously something much more WOW out there in the future.
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As a guy who's been thru something similar but the other way around.. And I'm Aussie too... Suggest first.. Go for dinner and talk with him.. Have a serious talk.. If he doesn't come clean confront him with emails.. Have a deep heart to heart..
Putting aside the emails.. Ask yourself deep in your heart... Do u still care for him? What was it that attracted u to him in the first place?
Moving from aus to HK is so hard! I had work to keep me going.. But see it from his view.. Wat he's doing isn't right, but it doesn't have to end
Go to counseling.. This is a must
Whether u stay together or break up its important.l either as part of healing, or as closure...
Whatever happens, listen to your heart...
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First up all men don't cheat. HK is a bad place for affairs tho - too much opportunity and alcohol...
Sounds like you should leave to me - particularly if its second time. First time you make a fool of you, second time you make a fool of me...
As for how to do it - sometimes the truth is the best though feels tough... I wouldn't advise airing your dirty laundry in public - you'll look like a vindictive bitch!
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I am happily married for 10 years. I will never cheat on my wife and I expect she the same. There is true love with no cheating and lying. Leave him and let yourself find a right life time partner. I rather stay single than live in a foul life. You are a smart woman and make a right choice.
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Not all men cheat. But many do.
I've never cheated after a decade of marriage.
You need to show enough respect for yourself and your other half to not put yourself into a situation where cheating becomes easy or tempting.
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Remmy
12 yrs ago
HKCITIZEN - do you ever have desires to have sex with other ladies? And if so, would your wife permit you do to that if you asked her?
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Pringle 88 - I feel for you and am curious how things worked out?
To me the most remarkable part of your scenario is this.
".. last night, I just so happen to go on his email, and BAM - there it is - email messages to and from this girl he was seeing in Oct."
I think your fellow wanted to get caught. This was careless or stupid in the extreme, if he knew you had access to his email and he didn't bother to delete these messages. And if you were snooping, he was still careless and stupid. He must have wanted some kind of confrontation to leave such messages lying around in his regular email inbox.
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