Posted by
Lunatic
12 yrs ago
I am 28, European, good-looking, run my own business. Several months ago I met and fell in love with a local woman. She is very beautiful inside and out, has very interesting personality and I love her with all my heart. She also fell for me, we were very happy together, and started living together pretty soon.
Then she got very sick, she was in very much pain, could not sleep, or go out of her house, and took leave from work for 2 months. We went to numerous hospitals, but none could tell there was anything wrong with her. I would go to her house every day to take care of her and provide anything she needs, spent many sleepless nights myself.
Then her health improved and she started going to work again and I was very happy that she is feeling better. However, most of the time I try to make love with her, she rejects me. When I kiss her, I don't feel any passion and she always tries to cut the kiss short. Always says she is too tired.
And I can understand that, but anytime one of her friends asks her for something she immediately dashes out to be with them, often without any notice, and this way leaving me alone at home with no other plans made...
Last month she flew to 3 different cities in China to do something for friends, but is always tired to spend time with me. Even when we were at home and I want to have some quiet conversation and relax, she just wants to do something for her work.
When I approached her about it last night again, she started crying, and said that all I want from her is sex, and that she loves me very much but I don't, and I always do just the things I want, and that everything she does she does to be with me.
And I do apologize for the horrifyingly long post, but I just think I am going out of my mind, and I wanted to see what opinions other people have. I think I do everything for her, go out of my way multiple times to please her. Of course, I don't think that relationships are all about sex, but I do think that intimacy is very important. Soon it will be one month since we last made love and I just feel utterly confused.
Any constructive input appreciated. Thank you so much.
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I don't think she has anyone else on her mind.
I think females generally do not see the need for sex as much as men do....especially local women when traditionally or culturally, nobody dares to mention anything about sex and they are definitely not as confident. It's just the way they've been brought up.
Go for a romantic non-stressful walk with her and explain how important intimacy is to you. Then both of you must compromise and agree on something that's workable for the two of you.
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As I see it, she probably is not sure if she still loves you. She might be confused whether to leave you or to stay. She complained that you wanted sex only, it is a sign that she is insecure with you. Probably she thinks you and her would never have a future, i.e, a long-term marriage. You treated her so nice while she was sick. If she just dumps you, the guilty of dumping someone for no faults might torture her. That's why she went away with her friends so happily. She is obviously hiding to have some peaceful moments. Talk to her directly and calmly, she might cry or piss off, but ask her to tell her heart. Let her know that you are ok with any result. Or act like ana**hole, she will leave you and doesn't feel guilty any more. Either way, I guess she might walk away eventually. Good Luck.
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What onurpalm said has crossed my mind many times too.
I will try to talk with her again, hopefully without making her cry...
Thanks for the input to both.
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Thing is, onurpalm, lots of women complain that men only want sex. It has nothing to do with insecurity.
There's also the danger of equating sex with love like most men do. For example, if she loves me, she'll have sex with me very often. If she doesn't, it means she is not into me. That's just not true. Sex is one part of love but it shouldn't be the only thing that determines true love.
However, by thinking that she's not into you, you will indirectly send off negative vibes which will eventually lead to a breakup.
Communicating both of your needs and compromising is the way to a successful relationship. The insecurity also lies with you, Lunatic because as you've said, Onurpalm's theory has crossed your mind. Best to talk it out.
Good luck.
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I am not going to guess if she loves you or not, but the fact remains that this relationship isn't that long.. (several months), and she is already avoiding sex, i know sex shouldn't be the deciding factor, but losing the desire to share intimacy with someone you are supposed to be in love with this early on is not a good sign.
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Having so many issues so early in a relationship is not a good sign. This should be the "honeymoon" period, which is generally filled with alot of intimacy and the most fun...
Sometimes, the most successful relationships are the simplest. It does not bode well that there are so many communication issues already. You both really need to be able to talk through the issues now, or there probably is some major incompatibility issues that will not improve over time.
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i am with xpatwilier and Amparo Kia, that you should still be in the "honemoon period" ie lots of intimacy and fun loving times.
Consider yourself lucky that this has come out this early in the relationship. While relationships should not be all about sex, ask yourself if this is how you want it to be for years to come
Life is too short....
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I agree with Onurpalm. Her love for you has cooled, but she continues the relationship from a sense of obligation. Get out now before both of you waste your lives.
Now suppose I am wrong, and it's just a post-honeymoon / libido difference, then my advice would be the same - get out - because it isn't going to work.
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Thanks for all the good points. I don't think there is anything I can do, really, to make her have passion for me and if it is not there now, it will never come. So either I would have to pretend all is fine and cheat with other women or live a miserable life... Sad but true.
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"Of course, I don't think that relationships are all about sex, but I do think that intimacy is very important."
I think you answered your own questions there.
I am with everyone up here who said that she may be staying with you out of guilt and waiting for you to dump her and the other folks too, who said that if you are already in the no sex and the "you only want me for sex" category, well, you are with the wrong woman.
Sometimes a woman can get to where she stops putting out and then turns it around to blame you like you are some salivating leg-humper, oh the old "You only want sex all the time" thing when really, you'd be happy if you got some once ever three days at the bare minimum, I mean, you are like "Throw me a frikken bone here!"
The truth of the matter is she simply doesnt want to have sex with you but she doesnt know if she wants to dump you either...if you stick with that, news flash, it wont get better.
Dont let this make you think you are nuts. You are right in your understanding of what makes a relationship work and, lo and behold, intimacy, both physical and emotional, are a very important part of it.
I think, instead of saying "I am dumping you because you dont put out" which, well, lets face it, isnt entirely the whole reason but is a major contributing factor to you feeling like you have lost your mojo or something, just do the tired old "Its not you, its me," speech.
Reality is, its her and its you. She looks at you like all you want from her is sex, so she refuses even kisses and cuddles because she knows where they will lead, to you thinking she wants to have sex with you, which she doesnt, so she avoids even giving you that false notion by cutting you off from the kisses and cuddles.
You want to feel the intimacy you had with her and yet everytime you try even for the bare minimum, a kiss or a cuddle, you hit a brick wall, and so you feel like a nutbag for having to ask her for this because it should be something that comes naturally to a couple who are in love, and then of course, you end up feeling like some kind of harrasing menace, begging for a shag when thats totally not you!
Hate to tell you this but I think you are a dolt for even considering to stick with her and then cheat on her with other women whilst leading a miserable life.
Move on, son. Life is short, you are only 28 and look at this relationship not as a failed relationship but as one of the stepping stones in life towards your ultimate relationship one day...which hopefully should grace you before you turn 40! Until then, live and let live. Someone will love her the way she chooses, just know that someone aint you. You cannot expect someone to change, not on this most primal of levels, because then you will forever feel guilty and wonder if they are having sex with you purely to make you happy and to fulfil your needs and not to their own end.
*SMH*
A good relationship shouldnt be hard work. If it seems too much like hard work, its simply not working.
Good luck.
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I only have a couple of thoughts. Are you sure her illness has not had lingering effects on her libido?
and secondly perhaps you have been paying her too much attention and she feels suffocated. Try to ease up, go out with your mates and have a laugh, play some hockey, do a class etc, see if she relaxes with a bit more freedom.
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Maybe it has some effects on her libido, I don't know.
And I work a lot, often weekends too, so I am not always around, and just send her a couple sms or call. when I have time, she always calls me, asks me to pick her up from the bus stop, or some other place, and I love to do little things like that for her and be with her. There are so many levels on which we connect, I can't just let this go...
So on the one hand, she wants to be with me, but then she does not. Maybe we have a communications problem and need to talk it through. In a week or so will try to talk with her, now we are working on assignments in different cities. Will post any resolution!
Thank you all.
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I see another possible explanation. Does she pay rent or contribute financially at home or did she use move in and start living with you like a house guest who doesn't leave? Could she have become accustomed to a higher level of comfort and lifestyle and doesn't want to let go of it? What kind of lifestyle would she have if she didn't have you?
I don't know what the laws of cohabitation are where you are but in many parts of the world, once you've been 'domestic partners' for 6 months, you're entitled to half....just be careful that's not her motive!
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I agree with many of the replies here. As pointed out, its too early in a relationship for this to be happening and it should be a signal to you that on some level you are just not compatible. There's no point waiting around for it all to change.. why would it? Its only natural that two people in love, who are both young, in the beginning of a relationship would explore all aspects of a relationship.
Your idea of either living a miserable life or cheating wont work. If you truely are in love with her, then cheating will only make you a miserable person... the satisfaction you will get from cheating will be short lived and the burden of it will grow each time it happens.
Adele78 also makes a very valid and sobering point.. in my home country, living with someone for 9 months or more, automitically qualifies as a defacto relationship.. and yes, half of your assets will no longer belong to you.
My advice... dont wait 10 years to realise this. Enjoy the next 10 years of your life looking for the right one!
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Honestly, I had not considered the option that she may be with me because I pay for the house and bills that come with it. From what we have talked, she does not seem like this kind of woman at all. Her lifestyle would not be much different from what she has with me. The flat she used to live in is significantly smaller than what I have, other than that, I don't know what kind of places she used to go to before.
These past days we are away from each other and there has been almost zero communications between us.
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me too, i am not aware that even cohabitation has its obligation after split, so I learnt something too
Lunatic, like I said, this relationship is young, it seems you have no idea of her past too, "I don't know what kind of places she used to go to before." it doesn't matter, just take it slowly and if she is not interested, she is not interested, there is nothing you can do. Hate to say this but sometimes people just fall out of love with no apparent reasons.
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This is Hong Kong, or China...not Europe.
You aren't married, you got diddly squat when it comes to rights.
Co-habiting, co-schmabbiting, you kick someone out on their ass, thats that.
The only time you are considered to have a relationship worth anything is if you are married. Which sucks for people who have good marriageless relationships, but yours is a young, non-working relationship!
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Lunatic, be aware the lady that doth protest too much. The woman who says she has no respect for women who live off men might be disguising her intention to do just that.
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Perhaps just say to her that it's all moved too fast and that you need a little space so can she please move out within a month but you can still 'date' and get yourselves to a place where it works...this can be the truth or a white lie. Once she's been out a month, let her know that you're happier that way and chalk it up to experience!
Good luck.
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Or you can just take a spoonful of cement, harden up and tell her the truth.
C'mon, how many women have been given the run around when it would have been so much better to just hear the truth?
Men are sometimes the biggest bush beaters (pardon the pun), and dont just let a girl down good and proper.
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I did what GemmaW recommended, we had a very long honest conversation, talked about each other's concerns I believe we worked things out.
The second I really start suspecting that someone is with me for material reasons alone, the relationship is over. As I mentioned in the beginning, I love this woman with all my heart. So I have no intention to letting her go.
I wanted to try and understand a bit more about women's psychology maybe. Talking with her directly was the best thing.
Thanks everyone for the input again.
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OK good points. I would have suggested talking to her like an adult had I gotten the impression from your descriptions that she would take it without throwing a tantie! Just reading your 2nd paragraph makes her sound like either a hypochondriac or like she was putting on an act to make you feel sorry for her and more 'bonded' to her.
You then say that she'll fly to 3 different cities in China in one month to do something for friends but finds sitting on the sofa with you for a chat too taxing. If she was 'apparently' convalescing yet could find the energy to fly around doing favors for friends yet doesn't want to spend time with you...I would wonder what's going on.
Perhaps men and women have different sex drives, OK...but If the sex has slowed down so much and you're not even at the end of your 1st year...I don't see much for you in the future. I'm a woman -and personally I'd be disappointed if after less than a year it had dwindled down to less than once a week.
If she's the one you want, I wish you all the best but the cynic in me breaks out in hives reading your post! Good luck.
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let me rephrase.. I'd be disappointed if after less than a year it had dwindled down to less than twice a week! Especially if stressful and tiring factors such as kids haven't come into the picture.
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Im glad you think you have worked things out, but i also really doubt that your incompatible sex drives can be worked out by simply talking. But i understand your willingness to try and hope that it will change.
Certain aspects of a relationship need compromise and talking, but sex is not one of these things. If its not there.. its never going to be there. Actually you said it yourself:
"I don't think there is anything I can do, really, to make her have passion for me and if it is not there now, it will never come."
Sure sex is not everything in a relationship, but it is the defining difference between a friendship and a relationship. Being so early in your relationship, I agree with Adele.. id be dissapointed too if it dwindled down to anything less than once per week...
Or let me rephrase.. once per day!
Having siad that, there are multiple reasons for a dwindling sex life and i am guessing that you are also incompatible in many other areas of your relationship...
Anyway i wish you all the best.
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Once per day? Dang, rob, you have got to have some sort of magic wand to be getting it that often after a handful of years with someone, lol.
As Adele said, when there are no kids and your sex life is already looking like you are nursing a newborn...its not looking good, most defo!
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OK.. let me rephrase again since im not quite at the "handful of years " mark yet..
Let me hope it will be as i wrote haha..
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...just my 2 cents. I don't think her reluctance to get close to you is related to sex. I think that due to the short time of the relationship and going through 2 months of sickness, bye the time she started feeling better she just wanted a change. I recall when a very close friend of mine, went through 'somewhat' the same thing, when she got better, it was hard for her to bye with the guy due to it reminding her of when she was ill. If the relationship is short, perhaps not enough time to truly develop strong enough feelings to outlast the tough times.
...also, I think bottomline is that if she is not willing to spend time, communicate, and just do basic things with you, then that alone warrants and end to the relationship - after you have talked and tried a few times.
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Sounds like a pain in the a$$ ... How do u even begin to turn a situation like that around, why don't u just move on?!
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Well, I think I was too paranoid and accusing her too much, allowing negative thoughts to enter my mind, instead of being gentle and understanding, like I should have. Which resulted in her being afraid to communicate with me.
When later we spoke and I just asked her to tell me what is one her mind, without demanding anything, she did. And I understand now what is making her stressed and tired and act the way she did. And what I really need to do is be there for her and support her.
She is more tender with me than ever. I can feel her love in the way she looks at me, the way she kisses me, the way she touches me, and everything else she does.
Why don't I just move on? Because I actually do love her. When I started my business things were tough, and there were times I thought of quitting, getting a job, and saving myself a lot of pain in the a$$. Three years down the road, I am glad I didn't.
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Well, I quite like your attitude. A relationship can be difficult at times, and what you need to do is STAY and WORK at it. Obviously there is a LIMIT to how much a person can tolerate, or what is reasonable to tolerate, but you are just at the beginning of your relationship. That's when you learn each other, learn how to communicate, and learn the ''demons'' that each side posses. ;-)
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hmmm - i have to agree with those that subscribe to the "it's supposed to be the honeymoon period" - i mean seriously - you are only a few months into it and already things are wonky. relationships are work - no doubt, but her state of relatedness to you seems questionable at the moment. life is way too short to invest time in those that will not/cannot do the same. maybe take a break from one another and see if the root cause to her unwillingness to be intimate becomes evident. something obviously has changed. i have been where you are now and spent years - not months - chasing up something i should have had the wherewithal to back away from when i saw the signs - the thing i learned, time is one of those things once lost, can never be found. good luck!
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I think you are making a massive mistake based on what you have said here.
I've seen this sort of thing happen to one of my friends before, the relationship dwindled on for a while after they 'repaired' it but they still eventually broke up after a few years.
It's VERY early on in the relationship and you are already having SERIOUS problems. You are 28 but it sounds like the level of your relationship is that of a teenager. It's not meant to be this difficult this early on.
It sounds like she is in control here and you are at least partially blinded by your emotions, I would really be considering the *real* reasons why she is with you if it's not for the passion. Not neccessarily money or a nice place but they way Shanghai girls treat foreign guys as a fashion accessory comes to mind, maybe guilt, etc, I don't know. The point is, it doesn't seem like she's with you for the right reasons.
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Ha. You are probably right gaz_hayes, I must have been blinded by my emotions. I still am.
We have broken-up and don't talk. She was very very sweet one day, then ignoring me the next; I started getting pissed off and not hiding it. I asked her to move out for a while, as I needed my space. When we moved her stuff, she said I can help her clean her flat, I laughed. But we were still together.
Then she started telling me she worried about telling her parents about me (apparently very traditional) and crying a lot, it was not possible to have any conversation to address the problems of our relationship. I suggested a few times that if her parents are so traditional, she should really not be with me, that she should maybe find a local guy and be happy. Then she would start crying and give me angry looks telling me I don't know what true love is. I asked her a few times what she thinks love is, and she would tell me two people wanting to live together.
She kept talking about wanting to spend the rest of her life with me and that she is so lucky to have me, thanking me for being a part of her life that I should never doubt, as I sometimes do, that she loves me, and I am her true soulmate. That she has decided to tell her parents about me. Then crying more. Mind you that I was not initiating any of these conversations, most of the time would just be working on something or reading a book, then she would call me and ask me to sit next to her and start this.
She went to her hometown for CNY and asked me not to call her, as her mom does not want to hear about me or her communicating with me. So I didn't. Sent her some message a few days later asking her what's up, she responded she wanted to die and didn't say anything else for a week. Then finally sent me some rude messages in Chinese (she never sent me messages in Chinese before) telling me that I should learn to let go of the impossible things, that this is her fate and she should suffer it. I got pissed off at this BS and just told her she still needs to pick-up the rest of her crap from my place and give me back the keys to mine. Then she said her mother will move with her to Shanghai and live with her to make sure she can't see me, but she would send a friend to do this.
So this has definitely been very odd and I feel like the fool that I am. All the time I tried to protect her and postponed addressing some issues that bothered me because of her sickness, but in the end it just got ugly.
Next time I should post here as soon as some issue starts appearing. Ha!
Yet, I still love her. So there.
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Lunatic
Can I ask how many local girls you have dated previous to this unstable woman? It seems like you are blinded by this woman, who just seems to me to be a pain in the butt and lacking in sincerity. I am guessing that this must be one of your first with a local girl, because you seem mesmerized by how interesting she is. I am not branding local girls in any way. It's just that you seem fascinated by her when, having read what you have written, I just can't completely understand what makes her so special.
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is so emotionally unstable, even when there is nothing terrible to deal with? I cannot fathom how you two will really cope when there are REAL challenges ahead!
To be honest, it looks like she just played you... and just wants to leave the relationship.
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Buddy, you just dodged a bullet! Go out and buy a lottery ticket cos this is your lucky year!
Once the feelings have tempered a little (give it a while, break ups are never easy) come back and read this thread again and try to be objective. You'll be amazed at how bananas your posts sound and with the benefit of time and new clarity, you'll hopefully learn some lessons and not make the same mistakes again. Good luck with your future endeavors and relationships.
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I am with Adele on this, you should come back to this thread (bookmark it) in say...6 months...and you will be, daaaaannngg, how delusional did I sound, eh? :)
People always think they know the one they fall for, but it takes a while before you figure whether they are "for real" or just keeping up appearances.
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To answer xpatwilier, this indeed is the first time I have been with a Chinese woman. It was also her first time being with a foreigner. In fact I am the first foreigner she knows. But I have a lot of Chinese friends and clients, so I am not mesmerized because of that. Something else about her has really got me.
Let's wait and see, I will come back and read this after 6 months, see what I think! haha
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Lunatic, good luck to you, sincerely.
Well, something has gotten to you, and it might just be because you invested so much into the relationship or even because it's been so "eventful". When you date a few more and experience the same "eventful" mood swings, you might not see it all in such a positive light. good luck, sir... don't look back...
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True, because as we all know, girls who run forward after sniffing a fat bank account are true soul-mate material.
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Lol...sadly, sometimes these soul-mates don't get found out until its too late. Count yourself lucky, bro.
And let me give you the same bit of advice I gave my kid brother (and which he did not take)...wait until you are 35 (at least) before you get married.
Seriously, best to sow them wild oats before seeing a woman with babies hanging from her tits like earrings on ears! Or watching that bundle of joy come out the business end...
It changes everything. (not necessarily in a bad way, a lot of the changes that come with marriage are good, but hey, you'll know what I am talking about when you make those steps in your future)
Best to wait for all that until you are ready for it.
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As I promised, once the feelings have cooled down, I would come back. So here I am.
We had a brief meeting with the woman in question, an attempt from my side to end things peacefully, in a civilized way. This turned into an epic ordeal in which she brought a friend, and together ended-up accusing me of being a selfish, idiotic, and moronic kind of being who has ruined her life and need to stop ruining it. My main faults were not feeding her things she likes, not buying enough presents, and being a vegetarian... I didn't even get angry, found it comic, and laughed at all of this sincerely.
Following the "conversation" they both somehow ran away and disappeared. At first I thought that maybe she has some kind of reason to act that crazy way that she cannot tell me. But really, there can be no excuse for this kind of behaviour and lack of ability to communicate, even if I really were a horrible person.
I have had some time to think things over, had a nice holiday, met some new girls. And while I have no intention of going into another relationship anytime soon, I should really keep my eyes open next time. Looking back, there were so many hints that should have made me realize that she would demand endlessly and never really care that I may have needs too (not only physical, but emotional as well).
In the end, as someone mentioned, I got very lucky that this relationship ended.
Please don't judge me, I try to control who I fall in love with, but does not always happen. Cheers!
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