Posted by
rob_M
14 yrs ago
I have been dating this girl for the last 10 months and we are at the stage of getting married sometime this year. We both have been through a divorce. Since we are living apart from each other, therefore, , she'd have to quit her job for us to get married. Lately she has been asking me to sign a prenup which I didn't expect it at all. As far as I know, she doesn't have any assets whatsoever, she told me it was totally for her protection as she walked out of her last marriage with nothing, now she is afraid if our marriage ever fails, her situation would be even worse as she will have quit her job for me. The reason I was offended is because I felt it was an insult and mistrust in our relationship. And I insisted on not signing it, as confused as I am, should I sign the prenup?
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Based on what you've posted, there would be absolutely no upside for you to signing whatever she has cooked up or had someone cook up for her.
I would not sign it and would reevaluate the relationship.
At the very least, get a copy of the paper she wants you to sign and have a good lawyer look it over.
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Sign it.... as long as the prenup is not outrageous.
think about it this way
She already has no money, and shes willing to give up her only financials means to support herself to just be by your side. How romantic is that...
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FIFIB
14 yrs ago
Sign it, this is the sensible thing to do but if you do not feel confortable with her terms you should be able to discuss it.
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94RS
14 yrs ago
I'm assuming the so-called prenup is not about what you would get of hers if the marriage goes belly up, rather it is what you will be contracted to pay to her for her willingness to have a go at marriage second time round. You have after all indicated she has few assets from her first marriage. I always thought prenups were conceived by individuals with considerable assets who sought to protect themselves from 'gold diggers', though things may have changed. If they have and this is what marriage has come to, suggest you listen to those alarm bells, get your Nikes on and start running.
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rob_M
14 yrs ago
That's exactly how it is, the prenup is really all about what amount of money I will pay to her if the marriage fails. I know I am not getting anything from her, and I don't intent to either.
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Run for the hills.
Failing that and if you feel you love her, have her come to you and FIND a job, and before you marry her have her sign a prenup that is favourable to you. Sounds like she is a pretty seasoned player which should set the alarm bells off!
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Suggest that you give up your job and move to her, and see what she says.
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Don't sign and see how she reacts. I hope she loves you enough to marry you with or without a prenup.
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Can you trust her when she says that she has no assets? I would have a look at the prenup though, as it could be fair and protect both of you in the end... but i doubt it.
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If it were me, I'd tell the lady I've thought it over, marriage isn't suited for us.
If you still go ahead with it and sign the pre nup and marriage papers and anything and everything she puts in front of you, remember to double check the new will making her your sole executor and beneficiary that she's drafted for you to sign, especially the bit about where she has the sole right to turn off your life support, just to make sure she didn't leave that out.
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kalia
14 yrs ago
Sounds very dodgy to me. You have only known her 10 months and she's drafting up a prenup as to what she gets out of the marriage. Can you be sure this is not a master plan of hers. Be very very careful
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Dating ONLY 10 months and planning marriage after both having divorced. Haven't you learned anything? That already made my alarm bells go off. Obviously you are not living in the same city/country and you wife-to-be has to relocate and leave her job. It is far too soon and far too serious commitment to get married. Prenup or not, think once more and take time to get to know each other first.
I have been here, done that, got married after a similar whirlwind romance. Not a good idea. You cannot know the person after such a short courtship, not even living in the same city/country as far as I understand.
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You're not married yet and she's already thinking of what she will get when you part ways. Think about it....it isn't a good sign is it?
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Alarm bells, red flags.
How much do you know about her, really? Apart from what she has told you, what do you know of her past?
Maybe she divorced her ex, and cleaned him out.
There are so many stories of expats who get reamed (more appropriate than the word fleeced) by some women. Even my Chinese wife is shocked by some of the
things that have happened.
If she won't get married without the pre-nup she is either so insecure that you will have problems later, or worse.
Because of the fact that a pre-nup is outside the norms, I would be very careful. Pre-nups are about protecting ones assets, not securing someone elses. It sounds like she is going into the marriage thinking about what she can get out of it, not what she can put into it.
If she still insists, I would be inclined to have a private eye do a background check on her. Financials, the story behind the divorce, and any legal actions. Plus anything else a private detective advises. If it all comes back clean then you can sleep a bit easier.
But seriously, alarm bells and red flags.
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I am with Loyd on this!!!
"That's exactly how it is, the prenup is really all about what amount of money I will pay to her if the marriage fails."
WTF???
You do know that a prenup is for folks who have money they need to protect, right? I mean, she is essentially coming in with no money and no job and she wants you to sign a prenup so you pay up if your marriage fails?
Are you too deaf to hear the alarm bells going off?
Take it from someone who has been married and divorced and walked away fairly intact, this is NOT how you get married.
For all the gits who said "Sign it" how the hell do you go about telling someone to sign something before the advice being "Read it first!" I mean, Jesus take the wheel!
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT sign this shizz and if said 10 months in gf insists you cant marry her then, you are the lucky one! And if you end up being shoved onto the guilt rollercoaster by her saying "But I quit my job for you!" I would not take that shiz either!
In one ear out the other.
Do not marry someone who is so keen to take your money or even talk divorce before you have even tied the knot!
That has bad news bears written all over it!
Run for the hills!
Dude, think this through. You have been married before, and you KNOW when something smells rotten. I would NEVER ask someone to sign a prenup so that I end up financially IN the money if the marriage fails! I mean, what a crock! Do NOT do it. And I would even go so far as to say do not marry someone who expects to make bank from you any which way!
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OP, did you also sign that brand new life insurance policy making her the sole beneficiary that she took out for you? Just a thought.
Also, a private eye isn't necessary. Just surreptitiously check her internet browsing history. Check to see if she has recently searched for words like, oh I don't know, maybe ... sleeping tablets.... husband.... red persian carpet.....
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lalib
14 yrs ago
At least read the damn thing!
What are the terms and conditions?
You haven't mentioned how the relationship was during the 10 months - did she seem like a gold digger, did u buy her any Gucci handbags?
For all you know, it could be that she's loaded and worried about you taking a chunk of her wealth.
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rob_M
14 yrs ago
Speaking of handbags, a few Guccis and a LV, branded clothes and shoes, Diamond Cartier ring and braclet, exotic South Pacific Christmas vacation and European holidays...
All that happened in the last 10 months.
She just texted me to ask if I am still firm on not signing the thing, I told her to draft it first and I willl have my lawyer look at it. And I told her what a prenup is supposed to be, and what it should be meant for. She has nothing to lose, but I have everything to lose. She then told me she'd better hang on to what she has now, and she is feeling insecured without the prenup. She wouldn't waste my time no more. Guess this is it then.
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Ok, so call me screwy, but who buys: a few Guccis and a LV, branded clothes and shoes, Diamond Cartier ring and braclet, exotic South Pacific Christmas vacation and European holidays...
All when dating someone only 10 months???
*SMH*
OP is a goner!
There is this huge neon sign with an arrow above his head saying "Ream Me" or "I'll sign". I mean, woah, thats just nuts....
Just sayin...lol.
I mean, if the reason you have paid for all that is coz you are loaded, maybe you should just give her a pay out if you want to marry her! I mean, who in their right mind sees this as being kosher, right?
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Rob, you are lucky because the truth came out pretty quickly, and before you got married. You must have loved this woman very much, but she is really not a good person.
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Dude, I hope you already broke up with this woman by this time. Marriage is all about TRUST and LOVE. If she doesn't trust you well obviously she doesn't love you. You get married with someone because you wanted to be with this person for the rest of your life, probably have kids etc. etc. If this woman is already thinking about divorce without even getting married yet well it means her LOVE is not enough to take it further. As my husband always say "IF IT TALKS LIKE DUCK, WALKS LIKE DUCK, ITS A DAMN DUCK!"
GOOD LUCK to your decision!
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rob_M
14 yrs ago
She called last night and told me how she missed me and couldnt live without me. She will not ask me signing anything anymore. Should I give this relationship one more try?
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Hi Rob_M. The fact that you are doubting if you should get married/ or give this relationship another shot, means that you are clearly not ready for such a big step in life -marriage, and should clearly shift to a lower pace in your love life. Why not slow it down for a while, and see if this woman is really the one for you?
She probably feels the heat of the pre-nup and you not willing to sign, and therefore is telling you that she does not want it anymore. Why first push really really hard, to then say: No need no more??
Oh, and if I were you, I would really slow it down with the expensive gifts, it seems that you are kind of 'buying' her love, and she only sees the $$-signs. Being together should come from within, and has nothing to do with money or Cartier rings. The fact that you have flushed her with so many things, means she does not get a chance to really get to know you and only sees you as a cash cow.
Don’t make the same mistake again by marrying someone who -in time- is not the one for you!
Good Luck Rob!
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Even if this woman is not a gold digger, she has serious issues regarding her role in the marriage, and money.
Perhaps that is why her last husband moved on. Because she is totally unrealistic.
If you do go on with this relationship, when the honeymoon period wears off, all that you may be left with is credit card bills. Don't ever get a joint account with this woman, and put a ceiling on her credit card limit that is easily bearable. Don't be sucked in by hot sex, that becomes a smaller part of things after a few years.
This woman will probably be like a typhoon. When she comes she will be hot and wet, when she goes she will take your house and your car.
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I say if you do not smell the something rotten, you need to get your nostrils checked, Rob.
Be glad you were able to see the light early doors. She realizes now that she may have pushed too hard and now is trying a different tactic, if you ask me, I still smell something rotten in the state of things!
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I suppose it all depends how much you love this woman...for her to suggested in the first place, means she wants to be protected if something happens to the marriage. Its not necessary that she is a golddigger or anything...afterall, you are in HK and she may had heard all the horriable stories about marriage & breakups, etc.. and I am not suggesting that you would do anything behind her back once you are married....I think she is just being cautious that all.
If you do not feel comfortable, then let her know.
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You can try it again, but don't let the relationship base around money, holidays, shopping etc. Make more real if you can, and run it for a few more months. Basically, test it a bit more.
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Ah the optimists who believe people can change their core values overnight! The gf has already been divorced before and (in her eyes) left with nothing. So she is pretty sure she wants a good "insurance policy" if OP wants a divorce from her. I mean, what if he marries her and then she ends up becoming distant, sullen and hard to live with, then if he divorces her he has to pay out? Bizarre!
Everyone is like "Oh, maybe she is just worried YOU will cheat" when really, if she was so unsure of OP's chances of fidelity before they even get married, should she even be marrying him at all? *SMH*
I'm sorry but none of this sounds like either party is clued in on whether they are a good marriage prospect or not, lol.
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lalib
14 yrs ago
Rob,
I brought it up in my post, But you should have mentioned this is your opening post re the Gucci & LV hand bags + holiday etc - this changes everything!
We can tell your in love but seriously listen to what we are saying.
If anything take take P.Masons advice and turn the tables on her - Make her sign a pre-nup limiting my liability towards her in the event of a divorce a very, very small amount.
or take my advice and DITCH HER.
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Sound advice, and I tell you, p.mason being a former divorce lawyer, dude has prolly seen it all and scared shi*less off ever getting married! Lol. I thought that even when meeting with my divorce lawyers, holy hell, those guys have seen it at the battlefront how people can become so damn nasty and money grabbin and mean.
Having a mediators job aint any better, I had a friend who had a chance at being a divorce mediator and she said that too exposes you to the horrendous side of how families break up and how people think only of themselves.
If p.mason has seen it and heard it from the source, his advice is worth listening to. And agree with lalib, get the gf to sign a prenup that covers YOUR a** and see how she goes with that. Although, in Hong Kong, prenups arent worth shi*, apparently you are better off with a post-nup, but then good luck getting her to sign anything once she has roped you into marriage! Lol.
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rob_M
14 yrs ago
Thanks for all your advice. I will give this relationship another chance with extra precaution since the alarm's been set off, and will definitely hold back on the thought of marriage anytime soon.
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Hold back on the lavish spending as well. You would not do it if you were married, because you would be saving for a house, etc.
See how that goes down when you are not so forthcoming with the gifts. If she starts calling you mean, and (I love this one) selfish, then you have something more to think about.
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p.mason, actually I did find out about prenups and as I mentioned, they are not worth much in HK. my divorce lawyer (when giving advice) said that post nups would carry more weight. this was just in the process of me questioning about keeping everything we came into the relationship with as ours, etc...
unlike the UK though, I think a woman in HK is limited by the amount of money she can sink into the system in order to get to her goal, I know many who have had to cut their court going days short because they simply didn't have the 350K+ to go the distance and hence had to settle for less.
That said, majority of marriages here end because hubby is off rooting around so its understandable that women get that bent out of shape. I know someone who was married to a one armed lawyer who is 10 years into still fighting for her kids coz that dude went off with ladies of the night in wan chai and then when wifey wanted to divorce him and get joint custody of the three kids the hubby fought her and said she was an unfit mother and tried to take all the kids too!
i don't care what anyone says, that aint right. the woman was a great mother, a dedicated and caring one, and she definitely didn't deserve what she got...but then again, thats how it goes down most of the time.
another dude was married to a korean woman (me believes you should never f over a korean woman, them women get angry as a spicy kimchi!) and then decided to screw around on her. she left him and took the kid while saying he was a lousy dad, etc. he wasn't a lousy dad, he just was a lousy husband, but because he disrespected his wife, he ended up only seeing his kid once a month on weekends! was that fair for him? no...but then hell hath no fury like a woman or a man who has been scorned.
divorce is horrendous. anyone thinking of getting married should at least know these things and then be twice as honest with themselves about their partners good and bad side before taking the plunge. coz if you get divorced, there is no good side unless both of you inherited the family brain!
at least looks like OP has wisened up...don't get married dude. there is no meter running on how long you have to be dating before you take the plunge, but having been married and divorced before, you should know that the statistics of a second marriage working out are even lower than the first because you are even less likely to stick it through once the bs starts.
so be smart, like another poster said, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, its a duck!
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its strange ..... I always thot prenup is to protect the one with the assets and the claimable assets is definitely much less than a 50/50 split divorcing situation ..... and so its the one with assets that proposes prenup ......... not the other way around .....
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Haha, not much for keeping up with names, but its a small world out there.
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Hong Kong is a small place, dreamer. You couldn't spit without it landing on someone with the 6th degree to you.
My need for a divorce lawyer was to fight a wholly separate monster, I assure you. The examples I used were purely of other peoples lives, there is such a rich tapestry to choose from when it comes to Hong Kong stories.
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This whole thing sounds really really dodgy.
Is she Mainland Chinese? What is preventing her from getting a job in Beijing if she has one where she currently lives? Or does she not like working?
Who was her ex husband? Was he also an expat? What exactly did she do to lose so much that she presumably worked for that she is now so worried she needs a prenup?
And now that she is saying she DOESN'T want a prenup, you should still be getting one to protect YOUR assets.
Something sounds very dodgy here, I really hope I don't read about you being killed in an 'accident' or something.
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10 months only and you are thinking of marriage again!! Rob, if i put it politely, I would say you are a hopeless romantic, if I be blunt, I would say obviously you haven't learn anything. I have noticed u are posting from beijing, so you need to check with a China lawyer (not HK) about the prenup, see how prenup in China works.
Obviously you are still excited about this new relationship, whether it is because you are in love with her, or thinking about you can't find another or deparately do not wish to be alone or whatever reason, these will all cloud your decision. For me, put it simply, why would a woman be thinking about what she will get (money wise) if she is going to prepare and should be excited about spending the rest of her life with the love of her life??
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BigCindi is right, marriage, for those going into it with the right approach, should be about looking forward to the years and even lifetime together, not about how to CYA if it tanks before the ink has even had a chance to meet paper.
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This girl appears very insecure on several levels. Excessive spending on vacations & designer goods, the request for a prenup agreement, and the “could not live without you” all point to someone who is needy and emotionally damaged. I would avoid her for that reason.
Suggest you look for someone a little more centered.
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Hate to add this, but holding to a relationship manintain only by money is pathetic, demoralise and a waste of time.
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sicn
14 yrs ago
This maybe a bit off the topic. But I have a question: why it is more acceptable if the poster ask the woman to sign a prenut? Isn't the purpose the same: to protect their own interest? So for the woman to consider her life she build in her city, her own job that sustains her life and her time she has to spend to rebuild are part of her own access that she shall value and protect?
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sicn,
1. It sounds like she doesn't *want* a job. I would be extremely surprised if her current job could pay for her interest in designer goods and exotic holidays. If she HAS a job that is paying enough to buy all this stuff in 10 months, then she will have no problem getting another job in Beijing. If she isn't able to get a job in Beijing (which she is saying is the reason for the prenup) then she probably doesn't have a very good job at the moment, and so the things that Rob has given her to date would be worth more than a year or two at her job anyway. She is probably on a max of 10k RMB a month (probably more like 5k), deduct expenses and it's going to take her quite a while to buy the stuff that Rob has already given her. No doubt he will be giving her even more stuff. So what exactly is she 'protecting'?
2. There is something wrong with this situation, it seems like this girl is in it for the money. Presuming Rob has so much more to lose than this girl, and that she appears to be a predator, he would be stupid not to get her to sign a prenup.
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ozbbq
13 yrs ago
my 2 cents, watch out " I am pregnant" will come soon if you decided to give it another try.
Per caution should always come before the per nap.
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I agree with ozbbq,
she will come out with another new excuse " I am pregnant" ...my advise is: abort the relationship once and for all...do not give another chance...
this girl really is a very dangerous super gold digger!! be afraid! be very afraid!!
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