to divorce or stay in marriage

we had a good run of 5 years ago until 4 years ago, I found out my husband has been hiding his debts from me, these are debts from his student loans days and money he owes his clients.


It was also the financial crisis. He had to close his company and worked on small deals but rarely with success. I have been carrying all the major house hold expenses, hoping he can get his career back on track.


Then his behavior changed. The once polished refined banker now eat food with his hands, chewing with a noise, walk around in his PJ, watching TV all day. The once designer flat turned into a pig house with his clothes, shoes, paper, food everywhere. I no longer was physically attracted to this man.


I have a demanding job and often work long hours. You can imagine how I feel everyday when I come home, exhausted, he is there watching TV on the couch with bread crumbs all over it. He is NOT trying hard enough to win his career back, he is not even actively looking. Why bother? his wife, me, is working and bring home the bacon and it is enough to keep us in a nice flat and enjoy life in Hong Kong. But I lost respect for him. The day I realized that, I felt it is the end of the relationship. You suppose to love and respect each other, but I don't feel that way for him anymore.


I tried to talk to him about us, his career, our future ( having a baby etc), he couldn't give me 5 minutes of his time to concentrate and carry the conversation, instead, he would watch TV or surf the internet. I don't get a sense that he wants to talk about it or even want to consider it ( having a baby).


I am not 20 years old and there is a small window from now till I can still carry a baby, and I do want it.


Life is short, I have been struggling with this marriage for 4 years. Shall I stay, feeling unfulfilled or shall I go?

Erm...do you really want a baby that bad that you are willing to have it with a crumb covered slob that you don't even want to do?


I am sorry to be the one to tell you this but making babies involves A LOT of sex! You can't just close your eyes and think of tiny fingers and toes, I mean, when you are told that any lube you use will hamper the baby making, you gotto be in to what you are doing! You have to have sex on the clock and there is a lot of pressure involved. And, wait for it, it can take up to a year or more of peeing on sticks, screwing every other day during the "window" and then waiting to pee on even more sticks. Making babies, at the best of times and in the best of relationships, can be a trying process that no one told you could be so hard coz you saw young, dumb and full of *** college friends have no problem getting pregnant. I mean, you aren't even attracted to your man anymore...where do you hope to dig up this enthusiasm? And can you sustain it for a year or more? And how much would you resent him then if you couldn't get one in the back of the net?


This man, the one who has been sitting on the couch like a slob for the last 4 years, this one aint gonna be your baby bringing Santa Claus. I hate to tell you this. If you wanted a baby that bad, you would have made them already. Why have you waited until now to be honest with yourself? But heres some consolation...at least now you are being honest with yourself. Folks gotto want to help themselves, and if hubby has been doing anything but...well, actions speak volumes. Maybe now you are finally just admitting maybe you were wrong to hold out this long. And this is something to all women, if you want a baby bad, go for it! Make one and then have it all yourself if need be! Get a doner, do whatever...don't wait for some schlep to be ready to get responsible while your ovaries shrivel up like prunes. But thats for another day!


If you have joint accounts I suggest you make sure you protect yourself first (put them on lockdown) before sitting sonny down and telling him that you have had it up to your eyelids with being patient and waiting for him to gain some self respect back and to be motivated, enough is enough, if he doesn't get a job, even waiting tables, hit the gym and bare minimum clean and cook, his a** is being to kicked to the curb. He doesn't need to be a banker again, hell, start somewhere FFS!


How is it you have been "wearing the pants" this long and you still say things like "I have tried to talk to him but he couldn't give me 5 minutes" makes you sound more like a doormat than a breadwinner that you are!


Be strong, take back your life, demand the happiness he promised you all those years ago. Demand that he give you the man you married. You have kept up your end of the bargain, he needs to pull his own weight (out of the couch) and get productive, and give him until the end of the second quarter before he is told *Heidi Klum accent* "You are OUT!"


Deadlines are a good and necessary evil. Let him know he has one! He has to know his shelf life is almost up. Maybe that will light a fire under his ***!


Good luck. You can do this.

It sounds like he has been sucked into a black hole of depression, and has lost sight of himself.


If he does not get it back then nothing will change.

Ask yourself, do you want to live like this? And with a baby.


One half way house is to suggest a trial separation of say 6 months, and then move out. This should give him a real wake up call. If he wakes up it gives him a reason to get his act together. It gives you both a chance to see how you really feel about each other.

It also avoids any ultimatums. You don't need to say 6 months or divorce. Just that you want 6 months trial separation.


After 6 months you can then decide the next step.


P.S. Not every marriage can be saved, but some can.

thank you tigerbay, We have already separated. I need to decide when to pull the triggle.

now

What do you mean that you are already separated? Have you moved out?


Your husband is either depressed/defeated because of lack of success in his working life, or he is on a 'holiday mode' and enjoying the simplicity of his current life. Food. TV. PJ. Very relaxing.


You should dig in a little deeper and find out what is going on inside his head. The big question is if you can find a way to communicate with him. Maybe offer him a nice dinner and 2 bottles of wine (doesn’t have to be at home…go out) and see if it helps to make him open up. Wine makes people talk. Coming too strong on him, and especially if he is depressed, will not shake him up at all. He will just stare at you and say nothing.


If you can’t find your way into communicating with him, then there is nothing much that you can do for him, and there is also nothing that he can offer you. That’s when you walk away. However, if there is still some love left in you for him, then check things deeper, learn what is happening in his internal world, and take things from there. Once upon a time he was fine, right? Find out if there is a realistic chance that he will be fine again, within a reasonable time frame.

In fairness to the OP things have been going downhill for 4 years.

It sounds like her own needs have been on hold for some time.

Yep, I agree with tigerbay, if you read her whole post you would see that she has tried for 4 years and has obviously come to this decision with quite the heavy heart.


I hate to say it, but I have known couples like this...its pretty easy to slip into schlep mode and find out 4 years later that you are still there. Once said guy gets shown the door the "motivation" factor will return, but as we all know, its all a little too late.


I think in life, its one thing to be sympathetic and its another thing to be taken for a ride. People mistake the two as being totally unrelated as long as you are married etc.


More people should watch "The Company Men" and they see how its totally real, losing your job etc...but what is also real is that waiting around on your a** for a job that "befits your education" or your experience, may not be the thing you will be lucky enough to trip up on. There are other jobs out there, they might not pay that good, but they will at least keep you out there, working and hungry to get a better job! Sitting there saying "I can't do that" or "I won't do that"...is BS. There are jobs there, they might not be what you want, but they exist...and trust me, many a human in HK is working insane hours to support their families coz they have to. Not too many have the luxury of sitting on their a** watching TV and claiming they are depressed due to a lack of choice opportunities.


And not many can sit on their TV watchin a** while another partner quietly brings in the bacon year after year until they give up on their dreams too.


I have a bone to pick with people who go "whatever happened to through good times and bad"

oh sure, if we were married and stuck in a Noah's ark level flood, with a tiny boat and one oar and a hole in the boat...and a small coffee mug. I would expect that I row like a demon to keep us heading towards land, but you better well be coffee muggin water out of our leaky boat!


Its a two way street. Do something. Be something. Proactive...not reactive!


Is that too much to ask? All that "You can take a camel to the oasis but you can't make him drink" thing is true. And if I was a happy clapper I would say "God helps those who help themselves". Right? These things are out there doing the rounds coz they are true. You can talk all you want but if someone doesn't listen, what do you do? Who is looking out for you? Only YOU. I think OP had every right to think of herself for a change, coz lets face it, her hubby wasn't too bothered.

Thanks tigerbay, Justin Credible.


Many sleepless nights. I still care for him and will help him financially until he gets back on his feet. After all, I loved him. I just can't be his wife any more.

Both Justin Credible and Tigerbay gave sound and good advice, years from now, when you look back, you can tell yourself u have tried your best to save the marriage and you shouldn't have any guilt feeling. I think 4 years is more than enough time, some marriages are just beyond repair. Move on and good luck.

happydiner, I've just made the same hard choice that you've made. If you ever feel like a chat (or a newly single cocktail)- look me up. Good luck.

In one word :


Divorce.

mbbcat, has the OP's story struck a nerve with you? I don't think anywhere in her posting was half the "juicy details" that you have magically inferred to make her story seem that much more phenomenal.


*SMH*


Husband didn't just come into bad luck, dude was lying about debts, not just new debts but ones going back to his college days. He owed money to clients and kept all this quiet, so whatever happened to OP being owed some honesty?


You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that lies, debts, giving up on caring for oneself, giving up on caring and listening to your partner, quitting communicating...all that can lead to a very unhappy living situation and definitely derail any marriage. OP didn't say anything about her hubby being the only breadwinner. OP has had a job, a good enough job, this much we can certainly infer, to support them both! So its not like she came here riding her husbands gravy train.


Note also that this (your words dripping with sarcasm) "loyal team player" has been supportive for the last 4 years, probably baring in mind that she has also admitted she still cares for him and is still supporting him. I find it cruel and a bit odd that you have a go at her as if its you she has called a slob with no job. If you have a personal slight in your life, its wholly understandable that you would feel a bit of resentment towards the OP, but I dare say that she is deserving of it.


You wanna know what else is messed up? Your last comment. Thats also really mean spirited. I know someone who made just such a comment to a friend of mine once and I can promise you, wished outcomes like the one you presume, they never come true. OP is likely going to move on and with positive action one day find someone truly deserving of her patience and generosity, someone who won't take her for granted and who will be able to share that future family with her while gainfully employed together! More likely the person claiming such a horrible outcome will occur ends up being the one miserable and alone.


*SMH* I never understand how people can say stuff like that. I mean, its like people who say things like "you'll never find someone as good as me" when you break up with them! They are truly delusional about their self worth, but really, more so are scared human beings. Afraid, themselves, of being alone.


*shrug*


And the final bone to pick - don't mock a woman's biological clock. Its real and very much something that runs out. Its sad enough how many women, working through the ripest years of their life, are left childless and full of regret...no matter how one looks at it, having a child is a miracle in itself, but the older you get, the harder it becomes to make that miracle happen. OP has every right to think about this and move on if that is her choice.


Sorry, dude, but OP is already down about her decision, its not necessary to kick her when she is down. She more than anyone knows how much it hurts to witness the death of her love for a man she had once believed she would grow old with.

mbbcat


Trite comments and match book/beermat philosophy may sound cool to you, but it is totally inappropriate for real life problem solving.

Justin Credible, thanks for the last well reasoned and balanced posts.....it was pretty incredible (sorry about the pun). Too often a certain type of posters write with a flavour varying from simmering resentment to outright agro, when the original person who started the thread is looking for some advice, a different point of view.....not a put down!

Karma may be real and I will not argue with that part of religio-philosophy but if you studied it well you would know that it could take lifetimes for comeuppence to come around, coz lets face it, many people, generally the ones who can't just "let it go" like they should, keep waiting (in vain) for insta-karma.


Trust me, insta-karma rarely ever happens.


And if you look at it this way, hubby got the "Karma" you speak of. And for making the sacrifice of 4 years, wife may just end up with a whole different (and more positive) future Karma!


It really is a matter of how you wish to look at it.


Not to make a laugh of it, but I find it hard to not, I know quite a few di**heads I have waited to see Karma kick in the a** but it simply never happened! Lol. And so I learned the valuable lesson in that - that the way I approach life, matters. Let go the anger and resentment. Let go the insane expectations that some vengeful otherworldly source will show your enemies a thing or two, and then you won't be disappointed nor look at life as constantly shortchanging you.


Every change is an opportunity to learn and to do some good in life, OP and her exhubby will learn this. And folks that genuinely believe that insta-karma will come round and do harm to another person, thats just plain sad, the sooner you learn that there simply is no such thing, the better. Best not to go down that route, because, as I said, even the biggest jerks, they end out living it up, living it large and rarely getting kicked in the teeth that people they screw over wish Karma would kick em in!

Dear happydiner,


After reading all of these other comments, I can only say that LOVE is what shld bind both of you together going forward ....... Job and material concern is one aspect of life but it shld not be the utimate goal that keep you together ...... You really have to communicate and see if he responds to loving you as much as you love him ......... Babies shld come about becuz of love, NOT Becuz of biological clock ....... With today's technological advancement WHAT bio-clock??? ..... There is a couple in China in their 60s having a baby now becuz they lost their only son .... In the end, it is about communicating and solving problems and going thru life together .......

Happydiner


If your husband is making a conscious decision(as opposed to a real depression syndrome) being a a slacker, then don't bother. Just leave him. this is different than leaving him while he's sick or down or facing challenge. He gave up on himself. There's not much you can do. Dont let him drag u down.

I think all folks here have to do is look over to the "pregnancy and fertility" section of AX to know the answer to "What Bio-Clock?"


It costs upwards of 70K HKD to try to "Scientifically and technologically" jumpstart your bio-clock, my friends. And its generally people who have never had any problems getting pregnant or getting someone knocked up that think "Pshhh, Madonna can do it, so can you!" Not true. So can you if you have a ridiculous amount of cash laying about. Hell, its cheaper to adopt than make babies in a lab! Thats the reality.


LOVE is a two way street. Anyone who is content to make it a one lane, one way, superhighway, doesn't care too much for themselves.


And call me crazy but a couple trying to have a baby in their 60's coz they lost their only son? Ethically and morally I find a lot of wrong in that. Just what kind of life can they offer a child? This is not a question of their love but their need to replace something...someone...that simply cannot be replaced. Death is a part of life, its foolish to think one can somehow be compensated for death by doing something equally atrocious in its stead. Becoming a parent is an awesome thing, but we all worry about one day being too old, being too young, or not being there at all. Thats life though.


If babies come from "Love" there has got to be someone out there to point out that many a baby came from "Sex" alone. So where we all hope babies come from, like my kids classmate who just learned about the birds and the bees, we all eventually learn, "You mean...all those times I prayed to God to give me a baby brother...it wasn't God that brought him? My parents just...did it???"


Erm, yeah. It takes a lot of that to get babies to come from whencetheycome! Lol. But I digress...