Posted by
minono
15 yrs ago
we are an happy expat family but looking ahead, it seems Hong kong is not the ideal place to be old. We do not wish to go back to Europe for retiring.
Where are the best cities in Asia to retire in 10 yrs time without breaking your wallet? Thanks
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Zhuhai is quite pleasant and you'll be able to touch base with Hong Kong but the Mainland may be complicated from an administrative point of view. Also, with the high-speed rail coming up, there will be lots of second-tier Chinese cities within easy reach fairly soon. The difficulty is finding one which isn't completely ruined and with acceptable accomodation - though they must exist. Ningbo looks quite nice and Hangzhou is also good. The Philippines is good but living could be problematic from a security point of view - try Siquijor. Personally, I wouldn't rule out Europe. There are lots of nice places like Slovenia and parts of France which are not too expensive. Don't forget, Hong Kong has great medical care if you are a resident so don't rule it out. HK is extremely cheap once you have accomodation paid off and very safe. They may have also fixed the air pollution problem by the time you retire. By the way, if you are completely mad, you could try Pyongyang.
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Kunming (aka The City of Eternal Springtime) is out target for retirement.
The climate is good, not too hot in summer not too cold in winter. Dry not steamy or damp.
Property prices not too bad but going up now. As a provincial capital the hospitals and other service are OK. The infrastructure is a bit behind but improving. Dian Chi lake appears to have improved in water quality in the last 2 years.
Transportation hub for the rest of SE Asia. Air links are OK, highway links are OK with easy access to Vietnam, Thailand, etc. You can drive there now.
Opportunities for semi-retirement with good trade links and lively export/import trade with ASEAN members.
If you like culture, lots of ethnic minorities to visit within a few hours drive.
The beauty of Yunnan.
Food much better than Shanghai food. Beef is very good and veg is very fresh.
The alternative would be to return to the UK. Errm! on second thoughts...
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Google Malaysia's 'My Second Home Program'. Been hearing good things about it...
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Taj
Your kids don't like China, or your kids don't like HK.
Kunming is like many other Second Tier cities in China, we will live there for access to services. But it is easy travel to places like Lijiang and Dali (google them and see what you think). Also we have found that in Dali you only need to pay about 60rmb/room/night in a clean simple hotel with views.
Killing time? Travel, hobby (building model boats), cycling, reading, walking in the mountains, a bit of sailing, maybe some part time teaching (just to keep the brain cells going), or maybe learn some more Chinese. You can teach over age 60, but not in the state education sector. Oh! nearly forgot, shopping.
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I noticed many people recommending mainland cities for retirement. Is it actually possible for someone who is not Chinese to retire to China? A friend of mine in Shanghai who was over 65 (American) and doing freelance work always had a very difficult time renewing her visa every year--has that changed?
BTW--I have wondered the same thing as my children have only known Asia and may not be interested in living in North America as adults. So we have considered New Zealand as we hear great things about it. We'll be visiting Auckland in a few weeks to check it out.
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Hi Claire
To clarify. My wife is Chinese, I have been here for more than 5 years and so residence in not an issue.
However, if she died before me, there may be an issue.
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selda
15 yrs ago
i will definitely go back to Europe, as i miss the culture and laid back way of life.
I have not decided where to, most likely Greece, Croatia or Montenegro, because i want to be near the sea, and go hiking in the hills. Property prices are going up, but if you buy a farmhouse a few chilometres from the coast, it is very affordable. Learning the language will keep me busy, and in the meantime i can make friends with other expats. Quite a few Germans, Austrians, Britons and Scandinavians have bought properties there.
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Thank you
That is really interesting. I thought everyone would mention Thailand due to great care system and low cost of leaving. or India. I am unsure about China as i thought tax and money wise it would not be the ideal location when none of us would carry a Chinese passport.
I have seen Australian buying property in Malaysia and running little cafes for extra fun and basically enjoying a greeny quiet life
One consideration is whether currency is stable, medical care is high standard, availability of domestic help, travel options and safety. After that, I agree, a garden will do.
Interesting read. Anyone to share a tad more?
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From our point of view, although we have no intention of going back to the UK during our working lives, we will possibly end up going back there one day when hubby eventually retires. If not the UK, then certain somewhere in Europe. Not that we don't love Asia, but the thought of spending our 'Golden Years', when possibly being old and infirm, so far away from the rest of our extended family, doesnt' really appeal. We'd much rather have some kind of familiarity/family security, when that time eventually comes. Saying that, God knows where our kids are going to end up when they get jobs of their own ... I often wonder!
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Spain/Philippines seems like a good idea though I'd probably prefer France/HK with a small apartment in, say, Bordeaux and Caine Road. Now would be a good time to head to France, returning to HK in late mid-August to catch some of the very hot weather.
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Australia. Politically stable, relatively cheap, good food and wine. Live amongst vineyards, or on the coast, or in a vibrant inner-city location.
The only drawback is the distance to the rest of the world, but as an expat who has done a lot of flying in his time, that is not really much of an issue, because I don't need to travel much anymore.
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Thailand can be okay, if you have lots of money, can control your temper, do not hang around with bargirls, and have hobbies (other than drinking) to pass the time.
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bing2
15 yrs ago
I have one word for you.....Bali.
Exotic place, rich culture, friendly people, without the bar girls.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
I'll second that... there's a vibrant expat community in Bali... loads of people who have had success in other places relocate to the island... and what you get are interesting people and lots of superb restaurants as many restaurant owners set up shop bringing their expertise...and minimal sleeze factor...
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Ed
15 yrs ago
I don't get too hung up worrying on the terrorism threat in Bali as I figure I am as likely to get done in by a plane crash... or one of the other many freak ways one can perish...
I think Bali gets 4 million tourists per year... there have been two bombings killing I think about 200 people over about a 10 yr period... I am pretty certain at least as many foreigners have been drowned or killed riding motorbikes in Bali during that period... I know 3 expats who have died on bikes in the past 6 months... god knows how many tourists get wiped out as most ride without helmuts... and lots of people get caught in the rips and drown... work out the numbers over 10 yrs and surely the total is much higher than 200...
If it's terrorism that is a primary concern keep in mind that Thailand actually has a far worse problem with terrorism than Bali... the entire southern part of the country is in a near state of lockdown with constant terrorist attacks on non-muslims... What if those same dudes decide they'd like to make a statement and hit some westerners...
Ultimately there are risks living anywhere but I think you have to put them in perspective and decide if the benefits outweigh the risks...
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How many people actually visit the South of Thailand? The rest of the country is fine.
I do agree with you though that if you start not going to places because of terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes,... you re never gonna move.
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Ed. You say you know 3 expats that have died in bike accidents in Bali over a 6 month period. That's a pretty scary figure even taking into account the cavalier attitude to road safety in Bali. Did they die in separate incidents? As regards terrorism, it's a concern; like living in London was during the 1980s when the IRA kept letting off bombs and blowing up innocents . However, London is a sprawling place so it is hard to get blown up if even you tried. Getting stabbed there for no apparent reason is now the rage judging from Sky News.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
All the accidents were separate... I also just read something about 31,000 dog bites and 28,000 rabies shots given since Nov 2008 and 59 fatalities from rabies...
With Thailand I think the concern would be the same as Bali... terrorist groups from one of the hot beds attacking foreigners in one of the other areas of the country... keep in mind the two terrorist attacks in Bali were conceived and carried out by people from Java...
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When people say "retire" do they mean while they are still rather vibrant and active 60, 70, and maybe even 80 year olds? Or do they mean from the time they quit working until the bitter end? I would hate to live some place, like say Bali, and then when I start to slow down, say around 93 or 94, have to move home for end of life care where I no longer have living friends and relatives. But then really, how would it be for an old white lady hobbling around Phuket or Ubud? See any on your last visit there?
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Ed
15 yrs ago
That is a very good point short time... if you have major health problems and live in a place like Bali you'll want to get on a flight to Singapore or Bangkok... so many would have an emergency evacuation cover in their medical insurance...
If you are a person who is already in bad shape such a place may not be the answer... mainly because if you have an emergency you are a flight away from top notch equipment and treatment... but for many already in bad health the trade off of living (and dying) in a cool place where one can afford staff to take care of them beats being kept on life support in a nursing home somewhere else...
As for driving you can hire a very good driver for USD150 per month in Bali... its those who ride motor bikes... many without helmets that get killed...
Anyway... there are ton of considerations one has to make about where to live and most are very personal... so who's to say retiring in a poorer country is any better or worse than settling in a wealthy country... It's all about what you make of it...
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Short time. How long have you been in HK? I've been here 16 years and am not aware of any law that favours local over foreigners. As for violence, never seen any but then again I'm now in my mid-forties and don't go out to bars late at night.
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What is difficult to take into consideration is what Phuket and Bali will be in 15 to 20 years. It is easy to factor what you know now but what about later? Does is go to the "sincere" will of a country to change its culture at the core
Same goes about health system. Every newspaper mention that HK is really worried about its aging population. Of course it will not mean that you wont have access to it but just that waiting time to access a treatment will be tremendously longer
It is a joke said like that but: I have never been old before and my parents do not hold an answer for me because, as Europeans, the state "thinks" for you
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What I also worry about when I contemplate living in a country and culture other than my native one, is my "otherness." Will I always be seen as an outsider? Will people resent my presence? Will a growing population of expats eventually trigger a backlash?
I do consider retiring abroad because my children, having been born and raised in Asia, may never view the US as their home and may never move there. And frankly, the longer I'm away the less compelled I feel to return.
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The OP said "What is difficult to take into consideration is what Phuket and Bali will be in 15 to 20 years. It is easy to factor what you know now but what about later? Does is go to the "sincere" will of a country to change its culture at the core?". I would think this applies to Malaysia and Philippines as well.
For your requirements - Without breaking the wallet, currency is stable, medical care is high standard, availability of domestic help, travel options and safety, the only Asian place came to mind is Taiwan. Some added benefits there: Political stability and speech/information freedom, high standard of living and health/safety regulations, mild weather all year round, people are highly educated, friendly and down to earth, and no terrorists or religious extremists to be weary of. Other than within city limits of Taipei, you can definitely get a good sized garden at a reasonable price (houses with gardens inside Taipei city are still bargains compared with those in HK).
Some may argue the possibility of a potential China attack - well, unlike the bombings in Mumbai or Bali, I have not seen that happen in my life time.
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Australia: cheap if you live out of the major cities - expensive otherwise and expensive to travel to Europe. NZ better but similar issues.
Our plan: 6 months in Thialnad (already have a place) and 6 months in HK (either top floor apartment in Sai Kung, or live on a boat in Sai Kung marinas). I'm from the UK and wife was born in HK (caucasian). We've lived in Sydney, UK, HK etc. UK is dire - you spend a fortune in heating, travel, mdecial is poor etc.
(I am based in Hk)
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why do people want to retire in other countries...Go back home... East or west, Home is the best... There is nothing like home, our own families, our own food and our own culture...wow... nothing to beat this feeling of belonging to our own place.
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Taj_wizard
if everyone wants green and fresh air, then who will stay in big cities like Hongkong. Hongkong is such a beautiful place...wish i could have my retired life there... Lucky you..
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Why do I want to retire in another country.
I am from the UK.
Declining economy, falling standard of living, indifferent weather, cold winters with soaring fuel costs; need I go on?
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Australia is a good choice (probably the only other Asia Pacific country besides Taiwan I would consider), but one of the criteria specified by OP is "availability of domestic help" which is not happening in Australia any time soon - not without a lot of grief and costing an arm and a leg anyway. Completely understand OP's desire of demestic help, having lived in HK a couple of years now frankly I have become accustomed to the ease of life with a helper.
Do not fancy New Zealand for retirement - it is a beautiful place, just too cold and windy for the aging. Had relatives living there for over a couple of decades but left eventually because of the piercing wind and cold winter.
Neither Australia nor New Zealand would fit OP's travel requirement due to obvious geographical constraints, i.e. being a long way away from anywhere else. Costs of living (food, clothing etc.) are probably highest in Asia Pacific too (except perhaps Japan).
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My retirement is some work (till I die), some golf, good medical, assessible to city life but also couple of hours to countryside, safe and familiar environment with old friends, and the place where I die and buried.
That will be Macau+HKG for me. 1 apartment in Macau and 1 apartment in Hong Kong. If I need to see places, I could always fly a bit to different countries, stay few weeks to few months.
For me, the biggest problem is not the place, it is all about funding, I calculated I need US$5 million to live confortably for 20-25 years for me and my spouse, that is excluding the 2 apartments.
Th
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erie
You forgot the cost of the burial site - in HK it may seem like costing you a third apartment :)
Costs aside, HK just does not have what we desire for retirement. Having lived in California and Sydney, we love and are used to the space. HK is so small and extremely crowded most of the time, it gives us claustrophobia. The air quality is getting worse each year as well with rate of diagnosed lung cancer sharply rising in recent years. Health risk is likely to further increase with China's continued development.
For the same reasons would not consider China, not to mention the other disadvantages such as low or lack of health/safety regulations and speech/information freedom.
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I like Califonia, and have some friends and relatives there, I could stay 90 days with my visa...the only thing is: don't get sick in the US!
Same for Australia, have friends and relatives there too...I could stay 90 days with my visa.
mmm..that makes up 180 days...
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Australia.
HK is too busy for me, I won't be able to keep up. Even the escalators at the MTR stations used to scare me when I first got here.
Plus the other issue is definitely healthcare. If you're sick, you pay in HK. Okay if you work but if you are retired and don't earn an income, the queues at the public hospitals leave much to be desired. Also, I wouldn't say places in HK are wheelchair friendly or catered for the elderly.
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