News Medical, Health and Fitness

BIRD FLU - IMPORTANT

ORIGINAL POST
Posted by Ed 20 yrs ago
I was chatting with a good mate who is a senior manager in a large pharmaceutical company...


I have picked some up this morning - its about USD25 for a course of the drug....


You might want to consider posting the link to this info in an email and sending it to friends - I have already done so. Better safe that sorry...




Friend: i hear rumours of avian flu in Jakarta


Ed: yes two people dead


Friend: better get yourself some Tamiflu....a drug that we make...only thing effective against avian flu...50% fatality rate if u get it


most governments are buying it....but i have inside scoop...its our drug....they can never buy enough for everyone...only essential services will get it...if the avian flu hits it will be mass panic

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COMMENTS
docboat 20 yrs ago
Roche (the makers of Tamiflu) say this in their own literature, buried deep, but there to cover their backsides: "In comparison to placebo, there is no appreciable difference." Tamiflu is ineffective, but well marketed. It shortens a flu-like illness from 10 days on average, to about 9.5 days. It may reduce the feverish illness by one day. If you want to waste your money, buy tamiflu.


On the other hand, if you want protection from bird flu, use Vira 38. It shortens a flu-like ilness to 2.1 days on average. When administered to chick embryos which have been innoculated with H5N1, it changes 100% mortality to 100% survival.

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Can you provide a link a credible web site with this information. My source is a very long time friend and he would not steer me to a product that he does not feel is effective.

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Not a shareholder in Roche... someone just sent me a link to an IHT article on BF treatments


Read More


Here's the relevant paragraph re: Tamiflu if you dont want to read all:



In terms of antiviral drugs, 30 countries have placed huge orders for Tamiflu, the most popular of the newer, more expensive antiviral medicines, said Martina Rupp, a spokeswoman for Roche, a pharmaceutical company based in Basel, Switzerland. The company is offering a "substantial discount" for public health purchases.

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Foth, from all reports I see it is almost inevitable that this or some other flu-type illness is going to hit... so my comments are nothing new.


If there is in fact a drug that will possibly protect people from such a disease that wont be available after the disease starts to spread, then I think people should be aware of it.


Personally, I would have to say I was happy to receive this heads-up and thought others might like to as well.


10,000 people die in Indonesia each day - if they had known before they died that they could have done or taken something to protect themselves, then the assumption is they would have given the means... in this case we have been told this is coming so doesnt it make sense to take precautions?

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docboat 20 yrs ago
The information I presented comes from Roche - it is buried deep in their own scientific literature, in an expanded MIMS. What anyone now chooses to do with that information - essentially that Tamiflu is ineffective - is their own business.


For my own part, as a doctor well versed in infectious disease, I am stockpiling Vira 38 for myself and family, and close friends. Prescriptions will go out to patients if the stocks are adequate. Everyone else can get tamiflu prescriptions if they want them.

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Dr Moreton 20 yrs ago
The Avian flu concerns are based on the great 'WHAT IF" To date there have been no cases where it is absolutly certain that there was person to person transmission. Most of the cases have been in SE Asia and all the victims were living in the same proximity to chickens. The fear is thata human will get Avian flu and at the same time get a human flu, the two viruses will combine/mutate and produce a NEW virus that is Human with Chicken characteristics. Then the Chicken S*** will really hit the fan.Will it happen,it hasnt happened in the last hundred years, but it might!

Correspondents are correct Tamiflu sems to shorten the ilness and makes you feel not quite as wretched, but whether it will stop a killer virus killing is less sure.

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docboat 20 yrs ago
(quoting FOTH) BTW as far as I can tell Vira-38 is an OTC drug so no prescription necessary - surely as a doctor well-versed in this field you would know that?


A prescription refers either to the piece of paper on which a prescription is written, or to the substance prescribed. OTC medicines can very well be prescribed, and often are if the patient prefers to have the piece of paper rather than rely on memory.


But I expect you knew that and just wanted to yank my chain.

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docboat 20 yrs ago
Based on the results so far, it is clear that tamiflu does little - if anything - to prevent death due to H5N1. Bear also in mind that Roche marketed tamiflu to China as "effective against SARS" with not one shred of evidence for the statement whatsoever. Believe Roche at your peril.


The publicly available information is mere marketing. Check out their own literature (and search hard - it is buried deep) for their own statement as to the lack of efficacy. Look particularly hard at the list of side-effects.


And for information from experts on the issue of avian influenza, and others in infectious disease, check out the ProMED mailing list. Read More

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Claire 20 yrs ago
What is oseltamivir? Is it the generic name for Tamiflu?

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docboat 20 yrs ago
Yes, they do indeed have "peer-reviewed" and double-blind controlled data for our enjoyment. It is a huge topic to discuss, but the bottom line about such data is this: the drug companies admit candidly, that only about 25% of their product actually works. Peer reviewed and placebo controlled etc etc have been shown to be skewed by ommission of data, suppression of data, bias in choice of publications, a whole raft of issues. In fact, talking about SSRIs (drugs used in treating depression) a recent review suggested that ALL the published data should be binned because it was impossible to discern fact from spin, and a reasonable doctor would be unable, from the literature, to obtain true information.


Now we have tamiflu (oseltamivir) and the multitude of studies. It looks great. it looks like a reasonable thing to do, stockpile tons of it. I used to think so too. And then I studied the real data - the real data is the stuff printed in the information pack, the stuff for which they could, if proven to be falsified, get put in prison. There is a book which prints all these leaflets as a reference, and in that book, written by Roche, is the statement on what tamiflu can actually do. There is credible data on certain effects achievable, but it does NOT cure a flu, it does NOT do anything more than promise that the feverish illness will be reduced by a day - and remember a real influenza is an illness lasting 7 - 14 days, 10 on average.


Data for Vira 38? Well, it has been referred to above, but the real test in in live patients. Mine keep coming back for more because it works. But for the efficacy in H5N1 you have only to look at the data in chick embryos - the turnaround from 100% mortality to 100% survival should give pause for thought.

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Claire 20 yrs ago
Asked about Vira-38 in Mannings. The pharmacist had not heard of it. Did have tamiflu though.

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docboat 20 yrs ago
How sick are "these people"? Some not at all - they prefer to maintain health proactively. Others have immune system deficiencies in the course of cancers, chronic diseases etc, and are more liable to viral infections. Most tend to opt for management of their own health, and see Vira 38 as one of the tools they could use, should they so choose.YMMV of course.

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Agree with your comments FOTH. Eat right, excercise and get enough rest and you keep the immune system topped up which protects you from colds, disease, etc... I've tried to adhere to this as much as possible and have not had to blow a sick day in almost six years - cant even remember the last time I had the slightest cold.

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Claire 20 yrs ago
Obviously having a strong immune system is the best prevention. Still I think it a tad bizarre that people with strong immune systems who caught SARs faired far worse than young children, who typically may have less developed immune systems.

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Robinann 20 yrs ago
I am new to this forum and find the info you are exchanging very interesting. I am based in the United States and in the healthcare field. I also am interested in purchasing vira 38. It is available from PRB pharmaceuticals directly without a prescription. Tamiflu is available at one canadian pharmacy without a prescription-drugdelivery.ca and they are shipping worldwide. They also have it at a fair price. I have purchased both from these sites. I have researched heavily on the net on both of these and am quite intrigued with the vira 38. All drugs have side effects and we each must weigh those in making our choices. Hives are inconvenient, but dead is obviously worse. Here in the states taking antihistamines are a way of life for many allergy prone individuals. I am still searching for vira 38 from a over the counter source here. If I find one I will bring that info to this forum. Take care :) Robinann

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docboat 20 yrs ago
Charles Hensley in the USA will give you contacts in HK for getting Vira 38. PRB pharmaceuticals.

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joy2 20 yrs ago
I bought Tamiflu but it's only for people aged 18 and up,

What to buy for our kids?

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ascc 20 yrs ago
Dear Docboat


Why are the HK and other governments stockpiling Tamiflu as opposed to Vira 38 if what you say is true? Any idea?

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Ed 20 yrs ago
I watched a half hour program on Pearl (it was a repeat of an ABC program in the states) on the weekend that deal with birflu and Tamiflu... they were full on in support of this drug and many medical experts were questioning why the US was not stockpiling adequate reserves.


All due respect to other opinions, but I prefer to listen to someone I have known for almost 20 years who is privy to research etc at the maker of Tamiflu and who has also given his family members the same advice....

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Dr Moreton 20 yrs ago
Yes Ed, but as some correspondents have mentioned, in their own scientific publications ,as opposed to the marketing publications, Roche make very guarded claims about the efficacy of Tamiflu. It would seem to diminish symptoms, whether it will save lives is doubtful.

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Vulvic 20 yrs ago
I have just recieved another e-mail from a friend urging me to stock up on Tamiflu. This one was forwarded from Morgan Stanley.


I had dismissed this as hysterics until now but it seems that all the major finance houses and banks are warning their staff about possible risks and asking them to take steps to protect themselves in case an outbreak ocurrs in HK.


I have read the arguements about Tamiflu vs. Vira 38 with interest. As it seems that there is more information available on Tamiflu, it is readily available over the counter and it seems to be the only drug that HK is stock-piling, I shall start to do the same.


Better to be safe than sorry.

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Claire 20 yrs ago
Vulvic>The studies on Tamiflu that I have read all mention subjects self-reported symptoms etc. and the results appear to be more qualitative rather than quantitative. Can you suggest any links that offer quantitative results - ones that do not rely on self-reporting - on Tamiflu?


Thanks

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Obviously there is no guaranteed cure for such a disease otherwise we'd not be discussing this...


I think that if you dig deep for info on any drug you will find all sorts of info on side-effects and all claims of efficacy will be watered down. These are not snake oil salesmen and if they pump a drug too hard I assume they expose themselves to serious law suits... even more so when you are talking about a disease that does not already exist in a form that can be passed on by humans... they will definitely err on the side of caution.


At the end of the day the support for Tamiflu is overwhelming. The info that I was passed is not marketing hype - if you had a close friend with inside info on this who warned you to buy it plus told his family to do so, plus you knew that most countries, embassies, and from what we see above, corporations have stockpiled, then who do you listne to?


At the moment this would appear to be the drug of choice for the majority so with all due respect to the comments of others on this site, I will go with what the great majority have decided.

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Claire 20 yrs ago
[Ed, the "majority" picked Bush.... ;-) ]


I'm trying to found out for myself regarding Tamiflu. But I cannot find any study that suggests it will prevent flu, and in particular H5N1. Self-reporting studies do not hold much water and are not sufficient to sway me - this is why I'm trying to learn more about it.


Ed> can your close friend point me to any pertinent studies? Particularly useful would be a link to read the Welliver et al published in JAMA in 2001. Cheers

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Sorry I dont have info on studies.


The majority picked Bush a great part of that majority comprises poorly educated people who make decisions out of ignorance... big difference here - the people who make the decisions on what drug to use to fight flu are top medical experts around the world.... I will rely on them over some studies quoted on a web forum by people I do not know anyday...

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Claire 20 yrs ago
Ed> I know you have Plan B set (in case Plan A, aka the yacht, fails to materalise in time) but, like you, I'm not about to act on musings on an online forum. Please allow me the indulgence of researching for myself. I merely seek directions.

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Vulvic 20 yrs ago
Hi Claire, sorry I do not have links to quantitative studies etc. I am just reacting to what I hear from friends who work at the likes of Morgan Stanley et al. This is information that they have recieved from the powers that be in an attempt to safeguard their staff.


I will also be talking to my own GP about the necessity of stocking up on Tamiflu, Relenza, Vira 38 - whatever your drug of choice. All I am interested in doing is ensuring that my family are protected.

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Ed 20 yrs ago
Heh heh - I am only trying to save the world!!! :)

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Vulvic 20 yrs ago
Good luck with that then!

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Claire 20 yrs ago
that's explains the cape and wearing of the underpants on the outside. ;-)

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Dr Moreton 20 yrs ago
To repeat---there is NO evidence that Tamiflu will prevent you getting the bird flu-with human characteristics and NO reasonable evidencethat it would save lives.

BUT, at a meeting on this subject a Dr who documented this very carefully admitted that he had bought Tamiflu---the theory---its probably not much help--- but who knows it may help a little.

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Anonymous 20 yrs ago
So confusing, if there is no evidence that tamiflu will help then why is it being stock piled?

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Claire 20 yrs ago
Dr Moreton> Can one make the presumption that governments are stockpiling Tamiflu because there is nothing else out there and they need to look like they are doing something?

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Claire 20 yrs ago
Mr Cynical>to whom are you referring? I can't any post seeking medical advice from that poster. I asked his/her opinion regarding governmental action. Agree that no one should take action on that is said on the posts here but should seek evidence or relevant research. Although the information out there is fuzzy at best.

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Dr Moreton 20 yrs ago


I guess Expatasia could insist on everybody submtting a CV with their comments, could be rather cumbersome.

There may be a place for Tamilflu---one of the problems is that the Roche copany is completly dicredited and all their,material is suspect. Eliminating testimony on a conflict of interest basis is good medical and legal practise.

Other experts including WHO are much less enthusiastic about the drug. It has the ability to reduce symptoms, it has the ability to shorten the course of the illness. Whether it has the ability to prevent deaths is doubtful. The good news is that there is no evidence that it will make things worse.

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Dr Moreton 20 yrs ago
There have been suggstions in this thread that the Tamiflu-skeptics are lacking in the Medical expertise as such well known authorities as the Morgan Stanley Conpany.

The most recent advice from authorities at Tufts in Boston and the University of Pittsburg, two aknowledged centers of excellence is, just what has been expressed here previously. Tamilflu if taken within 48 hours of infection will reduce by a day the duration of disease and REDUCE THE SEVERITY of symptoms. It well NOT prevent the disease. There is of course the concern that it might encorage resistant forms. Their conclusion---Washing hands frequently during an epidemic is more important than any available anti-viral agents.

I know washing hands frequently is not too dramatic--sounds like your old grandmother talking, a drug that costs $60+ sounds as if it would be better. Sorry, not true.

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Dr Moreton 20 yrs ago
SHANGHAI: There will be a walk-in Flu shat Clinicat Shangahi United FamilyHospital on Xian Xia Lu, tomorrow from 9.00h - 13.00h. No appointment needed. 200RMB, some resrtictions for small babies, they may need to see a Dr.


May not protect against Avian Flu, but as the virus when it evolves will be a hybrid, it might.

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taverner 20 yrs ago
Is there anywhere in HK where you can get tamiflu or vira 38??

Thanks!

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asriah 20 yrs ago
What about in Shanghai - where can one get Tamiflu or Vira38 ?

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docboat 20 yrs ago
Interesting - Roche presenting a study showing that Tamiflu can stop influenza, but the information insert in the pack is very much more guarded, making few claims, and specifically stating (and I quote) "The median time to alleviation of all symptoms in comparison to placebo showed no appreciable difference ...." Their backsides are well covered, are they not?


Vira 38 is available in HK, supplies are getting limited.

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dim 20 yrs ago
see, only the Tamiflu or Vira38. isn't really a emergency kit, i think. my doctor, he has a kit for this.

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Katemax 19 yrs ago
Anyone knows where I can get Tamiflu or vira 38 in Malaysia or Singapore?

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Studies have shown that Tamiflu is ineffective against the most deadly substrains of H5N1. I will have several =independant studies in the very near future that show that Vira 38 has show a high level of efficacy on a multitude of Corona Virus and an aviral strain of H5N1.

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Claire 19 yrs ago
For people who are seeking Tamiflu to use against avian flu, please consider the following. It's a news report on a Vietnamese doctor who has used Tamiflu on 41 avian flu patients - without successful.


+++

Report: Tamiflu is 'useless' for avian flu

LONDON, Dec. 3 (UPI) -- A Vietnamese doctor with experience in treating avian flu says Tamiflu, the drug being stockpiled for treatment of avian flue is useless against the virus.


Dr. Nguyen Tuong Van of the Centre for Tropical Diseases in Hanoi has treated 41 victims of H5N1, following World Health Organization guidelines and administering Tamiflu to her patients. She told the Sunday Times of London the medicine had no effect.


"We place no importance on using this drug on our patients," she said. "Tamiflu is really only meant for treating ordinary type A flu. It was not designed to combat H5N1."


The newspaper said the finding casts doubt on the British government's pandemic flu policy. The nation's top medical official, Sir Liam Donaldson, has ordered 15 million doses of Tamiflu be stockpiled.


Van said the only way to keep avian flu patients alive is to "support" all their vital organs -- including the liver and kidneys -- with modern technology like ventilators and dialysis machines, the Sunday Times reported.


The WHO has acknowledge Tamiflu had not been "widely successful in human patients," but said it believes it would have been more effective in many Asian countries if it had been used earlier in the illness.


Copyright 2005 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved

+++


FYI, Vira-38 can be purchased online. I bought a couple of bottles from a (trusted) pharmacy in Hong Kong at $180 each.


This is not for avian flu but against all the nasty colds about at present. It's herbal medicine with little or no side effects and I'm interested to see how it compares to echinacea for cold prevention.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Real quick note...the tests I have seen have proven Vira 38 is effective against an a-viral strain of H5N1. They have completed the studies in the dish and are about to move into the mouse studies. The full paper should be published on in about 1 month. By the way, web sales from the manufacturer have been suspended.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Hi Claire...what research, data, studies, etc. have led you to the conclusion that Vira 38 is not for Avian? I am curious to know.

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Claire 19 yrs ago
int-ex> I did not express myself clearly, sorry. Avian flu is possibly a once-in-a-lifetime virus (or less we can hope) but colds occur multiple times a year. This is why I bought Vira-38 - to test against the more common, more likely problem.


This is what I meant when I said "This is not for avian flu". I did not buy it out of concern about avian flu.


I actually felt the start of a cold yesterday and have started on a course of Vira-38, which smells ok (little fruity) but tastes really terrible.


I'm sorry that PRB have stopped selling it online, it appears they have realised they have a lucrative little money earner. The "recommended" pharmacy price mentioned is incredible. Mind you, could be time to buy some company shares before the report comes out.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Well Claire I will will keep you posted on any developments that I become aware of. Hope your cold is getting better.

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Claire 19 yrs ago
int-ex, have you bought any Vira-38 yet?

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Claire, yes I have. I have used it and have a stock pile of it.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Is anyone out there interested in a multi thousand unit purchase of Vira 38?

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Claire 19 yrs ago
int-ex> an update. Used it for three days and the cold never 'took off'. Excellent - I'm not going to bother with echinacea so long as I can use/find Vira-38 to beat those cold bugs.


BTW, now avian flu is found to be resistant to Tamiflu you might have some takers.

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Meiguoren 19 yrs ago
Maybe this is a dumb question, but is Vira 38 by prescripton or OTC? Are there side effects or other drug interactions?

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Calre glad to hear you are right as rain. I have been the biggest skeptic of this stuff but as far as I can tell it is spot on with everything it says it can do. You would be surprised if you knew all that is in it. There is actually independant research on every ingredient in the mix that shows high levels of efficacy againgst a myriad of different "bugs" both viral and non.


As for your question Mr. "American" to quote a popular adult cartoon in the US "there are no stupid questions just stupid people" but in all seriousness Vira 38 is OTC. As far as side effects I have found none. Everything in there is natural and many are things that you may use individualy on a daily basis. Again, HUGE skeptic here that is being proven wrong on every turn.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Clare, any chance you would send me an e-mail so we can get a more formal discussion underway? One of my e-mail addresses is invest_in_ite@yahoo.com. I hope you are 100% on the mend.

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docboat 19 yrs ago
If anyone is interested, I have about 1000 bottles of Vira 38 in stock too.

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midwife 19 yrs ago
I have used Vira 38 for about 18 months for myself and my children and always feel it has prevented some of the extreme cold and flus from taking off in our household. I have a stock pile.

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midwife 19 yrs ago
int-ex:

Just to ad my husband is a huge skeptic of it as well, but he is starting to change his tune a bit!He has stopped smirking at my stock pile anyway!!


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int-ex 19 yrs ago
midwife-good to hear. I have a source that says that they are about to release air tight test results from a Uni in the States. As well there are some other tests proposed.


mum to be - I can get you 10,000 bottles at about US$38 if you or anyone is interested. I know that it has been used by very young children but I will get an exact age for you.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
mum to be - I have just spoken with an expert in both allopathic homeopathic anti-viral treatments and she said a safe rule for this product is the age of 3.

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Meiguoren 19 yrs ago
Where is your shop located in Hong Kong?

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
Meiguoren please e-mail me on invest_in_ite@yahoo.com and I will fill you in on the details.

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docboat 19 yrs ago
mum-to-be, I am based in Central, Hong Kong. 2522 2721

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docboat 19 yrs ago
Yes indeed. As it is a natural substance, and cannot be measured by a LD50 (the amount needed to kill 50% of the test animals) it is, by definition ,"not a drug". On the other hand, Roche is very keen to prevent information about Vira38 becoming better known as their profits will suffer. So they use the FDA.


The FDA is also responsible for overseeing the #4 cause of death in the USA - "deaths due to the effects of medicines which have been properly prescribed and properly administered ..." ie the FDA oversees the deaths of 120,000 Americans every year. Trustworthy, are they not? I would not believe a word they said. Yes, I am a doctor.


Oh - and is Tamiflu effective? No. Is Vira 38 effective? Yes. Proven, tried and tested. With the new outbreak in Turkey, and new panic arising, people here may want to sit up and take notice. Also, go and see the movie or read the book" "The Constant Gardener" - then buy some Vira 38.

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Dr Moreton 19 yrs ago
I have been VERY sceptical about Tamiflu. Among other things I do not quite understand how a five day course would help in a pandemic that could last up to a year. BUT, I think that there is one scenario where it might help. One member of the family comes down with Flu, Avian or otherwise, the family quarantines itself for 7 days and take their Tamiflu, it would help them not come down with it, at that time, and would protect other people.

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docboat 19 yrs ago
Yes, that would do, provided you knew you had contact with the virus, and could take it to prevent (or at least reduce the chances ....) of acquiring the virus. Problem is, of course, how do you know? Most people will come into contact with it due to asymptomatic virus shedders.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
One question for the Tamiflu fans out there, have you ever read the fine print on the insert? I think you will find it to be very interesting.

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Dr Moreton 19 yrs ago


Fine print is always worth a look, the devil is in the details. But with Tamiflu even the right up front BOLD print is disturbing. The company claims that T'flu 1. Shortens the illness 2 Reduces the severity of the symptoms----- Never do they claim any 'Pandemic Prevention' abilities for the drug.

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docboat 19 yrs ago
In fact, tamifubar shortens the symptoms of a 10 day illness by about 12 hours. On average. But they qualify that statement by adding: "....the median duration to cessation of all symptoms in comparison to placebo however shows no appreciable difference ...."


Vira 38 shortened (in the same trial with that same virus) the average illness from 10 days to 2.1 days. On average.

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anu1 19 yrs ago
Yes chatting is also very good way to take information about bird flu viruses lot of Important facts you can get with these kind of discussion I have taken already a drug named relenza medication for more information see here-

Read More

This url is very help full go with it


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docboat 19 yrs ago
I used Relenza a decade or so ago. Not much use then either.

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greenbeene 19 yrs ago
Docboat,

I am totally in agreement with you about the FDA concerning this, and many more issues... but this is the first time I have ever seen an MD that is not in agreement with the FDA/ drug companies!?! Are you sure you are a doctor?!?

If Vira 38 is not certified by the FDA as a drug, then that is the reason that Tamiflu got to be more well known and stockpiled by governments even though the claims it makes might be all false, correct?

And where in Hong Kong can I buy Vira 38?? is it in any retail store in central?


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Claire 19 yrs ago
Vira 38 is not "FDA approved" because that takes millions of dollars and the FDA is, generally, less friendly to non-US pharmaceutical companies, i.e. without the right political connections. Look at mexoryl (foreign but best sunscreen in the world) or aspartame (causes brain tumours but went from a bio-weapon to food additive because of Rumsfeld/Reagan).


Governments are stockpiling Tamiflu as, politically, they need to appear to be doing something. If a pandemic occurs and Tamiflu - which already shown resistance to H5N1 - doesn't work the governments will just throw up their hands and claim it was all that was available... and how were they to know.


greenbeene> The manufacturer has stopped Vira-38 to the general public. See your AXmail.

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int-ex 19 yrs ago
GREAT POINT CLAIRE. Not only does the FDA approval take millions it also takes years. If PRB would have gone to the FDA for approval it would 201? before they would give it a stamp. What scares them even more is that it goes against typical allopathic treatments. Retail will be hard to find but I can gain access to 10,000 unit lots. E-nail invest_in_ite@yahoo.com for information. I am a legitimate business professional that just has a strong contact to access the product.

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Claire 19 yrs ago
Serious adverse drug reaction kill about 100,000 in the US each year due to toxicity. This means adverse drug reactions are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States after heart disease, cancer, and stroke. And these are drugs approved by the FDA!


As seen with Vioxx, the FDA will keep the public the public in the dark about adverse — sometimes lethal — drug effects. Just because the FDA has not approved Vira-38 is, in my opinion, not a reason not to use it (apologies for the double negative).


BTW int-ex, must pass on the offer of 10,000 units. Size of medicine cabinet limits stockpiling capabilities.

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madonna 19 yrs ago
A positive way to combat flu is to build resistance by taking Vitamins B and multi vitamins, daily dose of Morning sun (Vit D) - minimum 20 minutes, eat lots of fruits and green vegetables and I read somewhere take oregano oil

(make own by using fresh or dried oregano soaked in olive oil for one month) use in salads etc

A fit and healthy person has a better chance against the flu and stay in a fresh air environment - walks out in the fresh air at lunch time if you have to work in air con all day, etc - look after yourself!

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docboat 19 yrs ago
1. Yes, I am a medical doctor. I prefer not to mention my name as I consider that a form of unprofessional pimping. People who know me recognise me here.


2. No I do not like the FDA : Drugs - properly prescribed and properly dispensed) are the #4 cause of death in the USA, and the FDA is well known to have between 50 and 90% of the members of the board being financially involved in the certification of any one drug


3. Yes, I have loads of Vira 38, despite the attempts of Roche (via the FDA) to have it banned, and despite their success at forcing the HK government to stop an ongoing trial comparing tamifubar to Vira 38.

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Dr Moreton 19 yrs ago


Docboat, I have heard a great deal about Vira38 annecdotally but have not seen any published trials. Are there such studies?

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docboat 19 yrs ago
Yes there are - I got information on these from Lees Pharmaceutical - I am sure they will be happy to send you the info too. There are more veterinary trials though - as this has been extensively tested on chicken farms, where the transfer of virus has been effectively contained. HTH

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sweets 19 yrs ago
Oyster did you get your pneumonia shot?

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Dr Moreton 19 yrs ago
VIRA 38, They have not submitted evidence to substantiate their claims and are under a FDA warning not to promote untill they do. So the efficacy is a little 'iffy' and after Roche's exagerated claims for Tamiflu, one has to be sceptical.

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Dr Moreton 19 yrs ago
A flu shot is to give you protection against the flu virus.

The pneumonia shot is to give you protection against ONE of the bacteria that causes pneumonia.

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Meiguoren 19 yrs ago
Guru that I am, I predict that the next pandemic will come from a completely unknown and unanticipated virus, on the same sort of reasoning that if you carry an umbrella it won't rain! And not to discount flu shots, pneumonia shots and handwashing at any time, as well as having a stockpile of food and water, sanitary and medical supplies, and self quarantine as prudent in the event of a true pandemic and worst case scenario. But in the meantime, how would one go about getting a supply of relenza to go in the category of "flu pandemic emergency kit?"

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sweets 19 yrs ago
Pneumonia vacine is one lifetime shot. Seperate from flu. Mine was not the one type, but the 23 strain type.

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