Unreasonable Landlord

I live in Sai Kung, in a detached two-storey house (plus roof) which is not a typical village house because it belongs to a landlord who owns the entire piece of land on which he has built several other buildings of various sizes which he has rented out. My house would be approximately 3,000sqft and the other two houses that are rented out would be about 750 sqft and 900 sqft respectively. The landlord himself lives in a house on the same piece of land. There are common facilities such as a swimming pool, tennis court and mini golf course for all to share.


I moved in late last year and I'm into the 6th month of my lease. This particular house was originally erected in the 70's and has undergone at least 2 renovations. I am the first tenant following the latest round of renovations which was completed in 2009. Two months into moving into this house, the helper's bathroom on the GROUND floor began to flood and the backflow of water was greenish brown. Water was rising from the drain in the floor and up through the shower. Imagine the opening scene of Shrek 1 where he's bathing in the creek. That was the colour and the stench was not pleasant to say the least. I wrote to my landlord and said that it was urgent with a photograph showing the brown creek and 16 hours there was still no response and eventually I couldn't stand the smell that was permeating through the house so I called American Express Home Services and they sent a massive truck into the basically pump the stuff out. They put a huge water pressure through the drain to clear it but the plumbers made it clear they couldn't figure out where the water was going and that there is a high possibility the same thing could happen. A lot of toilet paper and debris was forced out through the drains.


I presented the landlord with the bill and he refused to pay it saying that out of principal it wasn't his responsibility to pay for it. He also added that he rented it to me on an "as is" basis and that he is not responsible for internal maintenance despite the fact that the contract states clearly that structural and plumbing issues falls under his care.


Earlier this week the same thing happened except that this time whenever the washing machine was on, a toilet was flushed UPSTAIRS or the shower was on for a little longer than 5 minutes, the same greenish brown water would pour our of the helper's bathroom downstairs. What was different this time was that raw sewage started to also come up from the drain in the floor and when it was scooped up and poured into the toilet, the same stuff would bubble up from the floor.


The crux of it, as explained by the plumbing company, is that the sewage pipes upstairs should have been 4" wide but it's only 2". And everything upstairs is connected to the pipes downstairs. To compound the matter, the 2" sewage pipe is blocked by 3 other pipes running above it so we have a situation where the water gets through but the paper gets blocked within the pipe.


I have contacted the Building Department and the Health Department. Both have come to inspect and both have told me that there is little they can do except to issue an advisory note to the landlord because after all, it's his private land. And as much as it's a nuisance to me, it is also not possible to issue a letter to the landlord when the complainant is the landlord himself, as explained by the health inspector today.


I have in an email from my landlord that is will not be responsible for all expenses related to this blockage. I haven't yet explained to him this structural issue that has been uncovered because he has proven time and time again to be nasty both by email and in person. I was even told in writing that I use "unusual toilet paper" which is why the blockage is occuring.


The plumbers advised me that if I put any toilet paper down the toilet there is no doubt that I will be calling them back again within a week to clear out another blockage so what we have been doing is putting all toilet paper into a garbage bag instead of down the toilet. This is not really how I want to live.


So I'm really at a loss as to what to do. The government won't get involved because they say it's really none of their business and they know he's a heavyweight who is personal friends with the likes of Donald Tsang, the Harileilas and mainland Chinese government officials. Surely there must be some law that protects tenants in HK from living in unhealthy conditions and from being intimated by their wealthy landlords?


I really need help on what I should do and the steps I should take. I would be happy to send you pictures of what I'm describing here. I would simply advise that you're not eating while viewing the photos.

Dear Cee


I would

1. Get a lawyer. It shows that you are serious.

2. Contact one of the Chinese Newspapers like "Apple Daily". They seem to love these types of stories.


Hope things sort themselves out.

Give the landlord one last chance if that's what you want to do and tell him that you are going to apple daily... I agree it is their achilles heel.

Otherwise, if you plan on leaving anyway, just go to apple daily. I agree with you that the system here is not geared up for the 'little people'......everyday mere mortals like you and me.

Won't I get sued?

@cee - afaik you're not writing the article right?i think the right to sue goes to the writer? someone correct me if i'm wrong? since the you've had these independent inspectors come around already, might as well their reports to your advantage.

BD and the health department will not issue a report. They will merely write a letter to the landlord to advise them of what they should perhaps do. And they will certainly not give a copy of any of this to me. The government makes it very clear they do not actually want to get involved. Won't even respond to my emails. Any recommendation for a lawyer I can speak with?

Rule number one in the New Territories: Don't make any of the indigenous locals lose face. Move out and live somewhere civilised like HK Island.

LGMV has the best advice. Stop paying rent and plan to move out asap.

Stop paying rent. Live there for 2 months while they try and chase you for the rent. This is not acceptable.

HK landlords are all about squeezing as much as they can out of you. You will never win this battle so best to move out.

You will never win this one. This is not being a defeatist but rather a realist. Stop paying your rent and start looking somewhere else to live. Use up any bond you have paid and then leave.

Can't agree more, start looking for a new place.

You will never win, try and run out your deposit but don't stress out over it or put you, your family, animal's or possessions in there way.

MOVE!

If you lived anywhere else, I would also second the Apple Daily idea. But not in the New Territories where the indigenous groups tend to play rough. Especially the more powerful ones, and your landlord sounds like he has the connections. Honestly with small children, it's not worth the risk. Especially when these ppl are known for their dirty tricks and are not above hiring thugs.

'[N]ot in the New Territories where the indigenous groups tend to play rough [and] with small children, it's not worth the risk.'

This is good advice.

Treat this sort of person with the contempt they deserve- just move. Remember, if you do move, you have the satisfaction that he himself will have to sort out this problem at one time or another. In regards to not paying the final two months, and from what you have said- that he lives on the premises, I would.

Ask yourself about how much you value the little ones, swallow hard and move out today - why wait for two months if the conditions are that bad - could you live with yourself if a little one is severely damaged because of your selfishness - forget the landlord and the money and MOVE OUT as soon as possible.

I have had experiences with landlords on "civilized HK Island" that prove that landlords on "civilized HK Island" are NOT civilized at all. They are landlords after all and investment properties are just that investments. Unfortunately in HK landlords seem to rule and tenants are not protected at all. I have taken landlords and hairdressers to the Small Claims Tribunal and have won in both cases. I have also taken the "big shots" to task over light pollution and have had success there too. If we all give up and say don't fight because blah blah blah we would get nowhere and the big shots would really walk all over us. If you have the time and energy then fight for your rights. Your contract should state that your apartment should be habitable which means that the condition should be clean and quiet. I fought with my landlord for a year over problems in my apartment. At one stage I had to stay in a hotel and I informed the landlord that I would be taking the money out of the rent. He said I couldn't do that but I pointed out the clause in my contract that states that my apartment has to be such that a "tenant can live there comfortably" etc. etc. Finally, he agreed but I had to really make my point clear and really had to fight for my rights. So you could deduct the money spent on clearing the mess brought about by the piping out of your rent. Don't pay the full amount month's rent and keep doing this each time you need to call someone in to fix the problem. The landlord is responsible for the problem because he had the property built and the problem is structural. It is not simply a problem of replacing a light bulb. You as the tenant have no control over the pipes which were laid when the landlord had the house built. It drives me crazy how we have to constantly fight for our rights as tenants in HK but life is not always bad in HK which is why I choose to live here.

DO NOT pay anymore Rent...and move out ASAP!!


Remember if the Landlord wants to fight over this matter in court he will have to go through a process which takes months to get in front of a judge....and you have a whole bunch of evidence against him...


Trust me the Landlord would rather just get another MUG Tenant into the flat than take you to court....WHY?....because its far more benficial to him financially!!


And what most people do not know....is that a LL cannot rent out his property to a third party whilst an existing lease is under dispute through the courts....so you see its not worth his while suing you!


Move out...!!

Oh...and document all of your communications with your LL over this matter, if you have not done so by now....then start straight away!!


Keep a record of time and date of phone calls and content of conversation, copy any letters before mailing, save all emails and write down any face to face conversations...etc


So in the very unlikely event he persues this matter through the courts....you have a detailed log of what happened and when!


Good Luck!!

turds coming out of floors has got to breach any kind of rental agreement. the place has to be habitable. why not involve the police?

You need to harden up and get realistic. I'm saying this after having lived in some dodgy parts of the mainland for 5+ years.


I had a similar situation, and this is what I did:


1. find a new place to live asap as you risk getting weird diseases from this crap.


2. You probably aren't going to do this, but yes, *I* have done and would again. After you move out, absolutely TRASH the entire place, inside and out.

What I did was use a mixture of salt water and bleach and sprayed all the fittings/anything metal (turn power off at the mains first). Take a pick axe to the walls as well as any ceramics like sinks and toilets. And finally, take a hose up to the top level and leave it running so the entire place has water damage. You could also consider torching the place but I would not do this in HK as its a criminal offense (the above, and you should confirm this, are civil and not criminal).


3. Do you have a picture of your landlord (e.g. from ID copy)? If you do, get some A4 copies of the face and use red marker and draw an X accross his face. Stick these up around the area surrounding the building. If you have his actual address, put on up there too. This will reduce the risk of him retaliating to the above (he's not going to use the courts judging from his character but only violence for revenge), drawing a red cross on a face means that person has been scheduled for execution, and it is also used by triads to show their is a bounty on his head. This will show him you are ready to play hard ball and he is unlikely to pursue you.