Posted by
Ed
13 yrs ago
The slow-motion implosion of Henry Tang, Beijing's pick to be Hong Kong's next chief executive, brings to mind a speech given shortly before the 1997 handover by former Far Eastern Economic Review Editor Derek Davies. Entitled "Two Cheers for Colonialism," it attempted to explain why the city flourished under the British. Fifteen years later, the Chinese officials who are having trouble running Hong Kong might want to give it a read.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203960804577238873647362332.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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Quite simple, YES, Hong Kong was better under the British.
I wonder if Sean Penn will dispute this one too?
Henry Tang can't be trusted, he's a coward and a cheat. Fancy getting his wife to take the blame. She said she did it without his knowledge?????? What did the workers do? Smuggle the constuction waste out in their pants and kick it around the yard like in the old WW2 movies?
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Was HK a democracy under the British rule?
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NuinHK. No it wasn't, the main reason being it would have inflamed the Chinese government.
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Chris Patten did a pretty good job of inflaming things. What was that all that about, Lloyd? A last minute attack of colonialist conscience?
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Posted by Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela: "NuinHK. No it wasn't, the main reason being it would have inflamed the Chinese government."
Since when, was the British government concerned about inflaming the Chinese government? So the Brits decided to "introduce democracy" when the colony was due to be handed back? The OED has a word for that: HYPOCRICY.
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Ed
13 yrs ago
It would seem to me that if the UK wanted to introduce democracy in HK they might have been better served to do that before it was agreed that China was to take the territory back...
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Bejeezus, pls read a piece by Gary Cheung in today's SCMP (Page A4) on what happened to siblings of Tsang Yok-sing, the sitting president of HK's Legislative Council.
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NuinHK - May I ask your nationality?
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Sand_Dragon - Should it matter? But for "full" disclosure, I'm American.
Now, your turn.
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Sorry but I am curious, is there any economic data that shows HK was "better off" under British Rule? Like was GDP per capita higher? Was CPI better? Was there more public funding? Were there less homeless people? Was there less corruption?
I have been in HK for 5 years now so I do not know how it was like under the British Ruling. It would be great if people can show some hard evidence on how it was "better".
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Ed
13 yrs ago
RF... I have been in HK since 1991... and it the transition has been completely seemless... I'd challenge anyone to point out any aspect of life in HK that is worse since 1997.
Overall I'd say it's far better now... I remember the days of the pokey little grocery stores hehe...
Unfortunately the pollutino remains terrible though... and I still can't understand why we still have a sewer for a harbour :(
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And I arrived in Hong Kong just as the (British) Police Commissioner was charged with corruption. The whole force was corrupt, frankly.
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Ed
13 yrs ago
Contrary to your assertion, this graph indicates that there were far bigger influxes from the mainland into Hong Kong under the british...
There has been insignificant population growth since 1997...
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_grow&idim=country:HKG&dl=en&hl=en&q=hong+kong+population+growth
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Ed
13 yrs ago
madtown... did you expect that population growth would suddenly stop after the handover?
Unfortunately in our insane world where no growth = economic stagnation, you might want to be careful what you wish for.... expecially if you are long property in hk (because property prices closely correlate with population growth)
Your graph indicates that there continues to be a steady line of population growth since 1960... and the that increases have actually moderated since 1997... which is exactly what the graph I posted indicates...
The biggest % increases in HK population occurred pre 1997.
Who are these people in "in the know" who claim HK population is far higher than the official numbers?
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NuinHK. Ask yourself what would HK would be like today if the British hadn't been here. Also, the reason we can say what we think and have a free press now is the UK managed to negotiate a settlement with the PRC before leaving. If you don't believe me, try openly criticising the Chinese government of the mainland. So things may be about the same as they were before but that is, in large part, because of the UK. In 2047, HK will just be part of the mainland as the way of life is only guaranted for 50 years under the Basic Law. I'll be 83, God willing, but I wonder if the younger people will still have the same freedoms. Also, it's not as if the USA isn't a massive colonial country which massacred its indigenous population, stole loads of Mexican land and kept its slaves long after those horrible Brits had liberated theirs, is it?
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When is the US going to return California (including Sean Penn's Malibu estate), Nevada, New Mexico and Texas back to Mexico?
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Totaly right Loyd.
HK would no doubt be like the rest of rural south China if it was for the Brits.
Americas contribution to the Philippines was corruption, prostitution and ermm NOTHING (unless you count fast food and the pollution left behind in Subic Bay).
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Ed
13 yrs ago
The Brits did certainly contribute to developing a western system of law etc... which HK has benefited from...
But keep in mind, until China closed off under the communists, Hong Kong was a backwater port of little significance...
What really made HK was the emigration of Shanghai industrialists to HK... they brought capital and knowhow..
And of course Hong Kong has also benefited from being the gateway to China...
If Mao had not taken over China, Shanghai would have remained the key city in China... and HK would have likely remained a sleepy village...
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Agence France-Presse in Seoul
11:28am, Feb 24, 2012
China has repatriated nine North Koreans who fled their homeland despite pleas by South Korea to treat them as refugees and let them stay, news reports said on Friday.
South Korea’s JoongAng Ilbo newspaper, quoting a defector in Seoul, said the nine were sent back last weekend. Chosun Ilbo also quoted a source as saying nine were returned.
Activists who have been demonstrating in Seoul say the fugitives face severe punishment, or even a death sentence, if forced back to the North.
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ltse
13 yrs ago
For the sake of Hong Kong, I pray that Henry Tang becomes the next CE, HK was not necessary better under the British, we have freedom, capitalism, a strong USD, and no universal suffrage, thats what made Hong Kong great, but now the tides are turning, socialism, government intervention ie minimum wages and the impending democracy 1 person 1 vote is going to ruin it. I suspect in the not too far off future, more and more local HK ppl will want to move to Shanghai, where capitalism rules, and no democracy exist.
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Itse you can't really think that Henry Tang would be a sensible choice. Adultry is not against the law but neither is it right and building an illegal structure and not a small one but an enormous one at that is, and as for blaming it in his wife....well you really don't want to know what I think about that one. The CE position requires a leader who has at least a modicum of integrity and Henry Tang it seems has none. I also find it incredulous that the HK tycoons are still backing him, what does that say about them? Even Joe Public know what a dreadful choice he would be and they don't want him as the CE.
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ltse
13 yrs ago
Swimmers,
being the CE of HK is no laughing matter, personally I think the media is simply all noise, and is a major distraction from the main issue. Hong Kong needs someone who knows and understands about businesses, commerce and at least the basic premise of capitalism, Henry is that guy, not the socialist puppet aka CY Leung, speaking of which, his conflict of interest in the West Kowloon project is even more disgraceful considering it is tax payers money.
Moreover, what happened with Henry Tang's house is a private matter, sure it is illegal etc, but that amounts to nothing when it comes to whether he can conduct the job of CE, the same way I don't care whether Bill Clinton banged Monica or not, because I know that he knows how to balance the budget and keep it in surplus, the same way I don't care whether the pilot that flies the plane I travel has extramarital affairs or not so long as he is focused on the job when he flies a plane. Get this, this is a CE election, not a Holy Election, we are not electing a divine being here, someone without sin.
As to why HK tycoons would vote for Henry? for exactly the same reasons I pointed out above, we need a CE that can continue with "laissez faire capitalism", someone who can keep HK in budget surplus ie not hand out free monies. These tycoons are smart ppl, if even they would support Henry, then they must have very good reasons, quite simply because he is the right choice for Hong Kong's prosperity.
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It always amuses me when people talk about Hong Kong being such a great example of laissez-faire capitalism.
Folks, the Government owns all the land. The Government keeps the budget in surplus primarily by selling off property rights. This is "laissez-faire capitalism"?
Plus, half the population is in public housing. Wait a minute, I'll read that again. In this bastion of laissez-faire, dog eat dog, capitalism, half the population lives in housing OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT.
Capitalism. Hah, hah, hah.
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ltse
13 yrs ago
As usual, time to educate some ignoramus.
"Folks, the Government owns all the land" , thank you Mr Sherlock Holmes, and in which country is that not the case? the government is a representation of the people, the land is ultimately common land owned by the people. Laissez faire capitalism is the idea of big business and small government, a move away from central planning and towards the reliance on the private sector and enterprises and free market to allocate resources. Ever wondered why the MTR is so much more efficient than say the transport system in say Australia and others? or that why so many corporations have their central offices here?
Businesses come here due to low taxes, which means lower risk and higher profit margins in their business ventures, and no the government doesn't keep its budget in surplus simply by selling land, they do it by not having welfare programs such as medicare, free education or retirement pensions that have bankrupted the west
I agree on the public housing part, governments should not be in property development, but as always the ignorant public thinks the government owes them a living. All in all, don't forget, post WWII, Hong Kong was just a non existent fishing island, it is laissez faire free market capitalism that put it on the map!
As the late Milton Friedman once said “if you want to see capitalism in action, go to Hong Kong”.
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DrJHK
13 yrs ago
The first attempt at democracy in Hong Komg was in the late 1930's. It was derailed by WW2 and the scheme resurrected in the 1950's.
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itse,
HK is better for business than China and not many HKers would want to move to Shanghai where they can't even reliably read their company emails due to internet filters, where it takes a year to set up a company if you are not a mainlander (compared to a week in HK), and where there are huge tax rates compared to HK and a ponzi "social security" scheme that just makes your personal tax rate effectively 60%.
Not going to happen.
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Ed
13 yrs ago
I have a friend who ran an emmigration consultancy firms in HK for close two decades... this was a thriving business for some time because of course people feared the uncertainty...
Recall the cover of Fortune or was it Forbes predicting the demise of HK at the time?
After the handover, when people realized that things were not going to change much without the British... the emigration business wound down to nearly nothing...
Not only were people no longer interested to leave - but many thousands of Chinese who left after 1989 returned to pursue the many opportunities that Hong Kong continued to offer...
So while I would agree, pre-handover many expected HK to fall to pieces... 15 years later I suspect the conversation with a taxi driver would be completely different.
Oh... and I suspect you could quite easily find a taxi driver to have this conversation in English.... something that was rare, at least when I first came to HK in 1991.
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Disagree Itse. We need a CE who has integrity, do HK deserve such an incompetent person and one that they are not allowed to vote for at that. How many times is he going to apologise for his mistakes and ask for another chance. He is unable to handle the mistakes in his personal life and worse still the way he handles these crises shows his total lack of leadership skills. Time for him to bow out.
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Ed
13 yrs ago
HK is still the financial hub of China ... I don't see that changing anytime soon... until the PRC has a fully convertible currency and more importantly, proper rule of law, HK will remain the key Chinese "international" city...
Keep in mind very little is now manufactured in HK yet HK has not declined at all...
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Some folks really miss the good old clonial days under whomever's rule. Let's launch a campaign to erect a giant memorial honoring colonialism. And every HKer should pay a tariff for the former colonial master's humanity. Loyd and Sand_(fake)Dragon, you have my vote to chare the campaing.
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NuinHK. Even better idea. Let's launch a campaign teaching Americans how to spell.
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Nuinhk. You haven't answered my question. When is the US going to start negotiating with Mexico about returning the states of California, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas? The USA is a colonial country.
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The article in the WSJ quotes an earlier piece by the late Derek Davies of the FEER. The focus of both works is accountable government.
The old colonial government knew that it had not right to rule, except a dodgy treaty, so it had to work much harder to earn a sense of moral authority by being highly accountable.
The post handover regime has a sense of entitlement, and makes no attempt to be accountable to the people of Hong Kong.
The issue is how Hong Kong can have a government that serves and is accountable to the people of hong kong, rather than lording over them.
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I've lived in hk since 1989 and I feel hk was good during British rule and just as good today. We can thank the British for the fantastic infrastructure of hong kong. The airport was the last excellent job the British left hk with. Today much of hk is still ruled by the British, just commercially instead of politically. Hsbc and swire are just a couple of the many British companies that "rule" hong kong.
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Very little of Hong Kong is now ruled by British companies. What makes you think that HSBC is a British company?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC
Don't let the name fool you
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LGMV - no need for negotiation, The Mexican's are taking the USA back - through immigration.
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Why not return the country to the Indians.
That's the same thing that the UN did when it gave land in Palestine to the Jews and it's the same excuse Israel uses for taking more and more land from the Palestinians every single year since
I think the Indians have a better claim because the white man was nevr in North America in old history
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Yes, have been here for far too many years.. 1990..
Financially, I'm better off, but, this has absolutely nothing to do with the British or the Chinese rulers... it's simply time, effort and luck etc.. In terms of other aspects, yes, this place has definitely deteriorated into ash*thole.. the rudeness has increased 10 fold, any semblence of quality of life has simply evaporated, along with what remains of a harbour... As much as I dislike the Brits, they did run this place much, much better and ironically, I do believe they would not have let it sink to the current levels of disgust... The locals would have to comply with at least minimum level of civilised behaviour, manners and some type of sophistication... currently, they are worse than their mainland counterparts... who they now complain about all the time as being like Locusts and the mainlanders reply by calling these locals Dogs... Hehehe, it's all great stuff... :-D
So really, this idiot Tang is of no consequence to any of us.. He's just another fool to parade around in public as if he is a respectful individual, which, of course he's not etc... Simply the game... let's not kid ourselves, these people are doing what they can for themselves and their families... they really could care less about anyone else, and, importantly, we are all doing the same... so, no blame to place, right?
If you had the chance to set your own rules, blame the wife for everything, get away with it and be supported by the massively rich who put you in power, what would you do ?
So, in the end, after all the supposed turmoil, mud-slinging, opponenet bashing ad all that jazz makes this seem like a real battle... Tang will be put in place by the rich to make sure they put one over on their competitors.. nothing related to Tang's ability, honour (0), integrity (0), ethics, beliefs or any other specific attributes the idiot may possess etc..
Good/ bad for you, I or HK is simply irrelevant and has no bearing here whatsoever...
I strongly believe that, as I type, Tang is further, actively and frequently developing his taste and love for Cigars .. Next time you see him in the media, check out his teeth.. they will be glistening very brightly.... :-D
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Hi Paul 72,
I do apologise if my opinion has left you with an unsavoury tang.. :-)
This was fully and completely unintentional, as I was, in a somewhat cryptic manner, attempting to profer a touch, or slight complimentary tang of respect for the capabilities of the Brits.. :-)
"Tang is a fruit-flavored breakfast drink." - Wikipedia.. :-@
BTW, I am a Brit, so, yes, as a Brit., one of the critical stages of our upbringing is the correct manner in which one must judge ! Without the necessary judging skills to enable proficient people judging, as taught throughout upbringing based upon specific characteristics, one could be deemed weak of mind, spirit and determination, hence and theretofore, one could fall folly to not living upto one's God given right to judge all .. right? Well we are Brits... this is what we are taught to do.. right :-)
"God save the old bag.." :-D (Whoops, too much tang methinks..)
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